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[FR] 1 year after discovering the manosphere - wall of text

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April 19, 2018
14 upvotes

I, like many, found my way here after living through the hell of a dead bedroom and staying with my marriage 'for the sake of the children'. I'm in my early forties and have been married for 18 years, and have three children. I've always enjoyed participating in sports and physical activities and never been a fat lazy slob. I've owned my shit pretty well during the course of my marriage, but found myself getting despondent about the lack of sex and intimacy. That despondency was seeping more and more into other areas of my life as I would live day by day.

The biggest mistake I made in my relationship was selecting her as a future wife and treating her with far greater deference than any previous girls (putting her on a pedestal and buying into her frame). In all previous relationships my frame was solid as I knew that I would never marry any of them, and they were principally there for sex and fun.

The wife was and still is extremely hard working and honest, but sex was never fantastic or exceedingly frequent. I continued until we got married because we were otherwise good together. I had in mind that over time she would lose her prudishness and learn to let go and really enjoy sex. I now realise that was another substantial failure to lead her there. Since she started out sweet and doting and sex was acceptable, I never really pushed my sexual agenda.

Over the following years sexual frequency dropped, as I received more and more refusals, and I continued to treat my 'sweet fragile woman' with kid gloves. I never realised that LMR was an issue for women in marriage, so I no doubt took far too many soft no's to be hard no's. Later children came along and sex all but dried up as she saw her role as mother and nothing else. I had thrown myself into working hard to provide my family with a good and comfortable life. In the process, I had dropped many of my social and sporting activities. As the years passed, the sex didn't return and I was left on the drip-fed starfish plan.

I was really unhappy. The lack of sex, prevented me from sleeping well and left me anxious and damaged my self-confidence. The lack of sex and intimacy led to several arguments, which changed nothing, of course. Over time she became ever more bitchy, She also wanted me to provide her with more time and resources. I've never been a totally internalised beta, and my attitude was "fuck you, you're not meeting my needs, so I'll not labour any more to meet your 'needs'".

I started to restore some boundaries that had been abused. I picked up my sporting activities again, despite her not being happy with a losing significant portion of my availability. She tried to reassert control over my availability by "booking" me up in a supporting role for her social life. I responded by setting the boundary, that my sporting activities will happen unless she can convince me to change plans with a an exceptional reason. We were left with only one car (which I had bought her) after she had reluctantly convinced me to sell my old one which was rarely used because we had previously lived in a town centre. Now living in the countryside, she tried to limit my activities by asserting her right to use "her car". She would not entertain discussing sharing our car equitably. She didn't want me to buy a car, so I just bought one. Fuck that disrespect. She knew better than to make any complain about it afterwards.

I had managed to survive on the drip-fed bad sex plan, with the resultant stress, brain-fog and lack of enthusiasm for life by kidding myself that I wasn't going to set out to cheat on my wife, but if a cute woman took me in that direction, I wouldn't refuse. On a few occasions, some attractive women propositioned me and I turned them down. The final straw was when a beautiful fit, sex bomb of a 24 year-old (HB 9) propositioned me one night. I turned her down and returned home to the frigid wife. I was the horniest that I can ever recall being, so much so that I initiated hard with the wife, only to receive the usual rejection and was then totally incapable of sleep. That night I resolved to fix my lack of sex one way or another - to hell with what the wife says or wants. I also gave up on trying to make her happy. I had been trying to do so, and she was less happy than ever, and I was also thoroughly unhappy and totally unappreciated. I decided to look after my own happiness, and that her happiness was going to be her own problem.

I started doing resistance training to improve my upper body strength since the HB9 and a friend of hers said they found it extremely sexy, even though I was already very fit. I had been running and mountain biking hard for a number of years and although very fit, my arms and shoulders were reminiscent of a t-rex's.

I had started to scour the internet to find resources to help fix the dead bedroom. I found the deadbedrooms sub, and saw it for what it is: namely a useless pit of self-pity and inaction.

One day, shortly afterwards, while the wife was taking her turn driving while on an outing. I was asking my daughter to respect a family rule (an important one for me) that I had agreed with the wife to implement, and my daughter was being insolent. The wife threw a huge hissy fit and told off both me and the daughter. The wife had been growing a history of disrespectful behaviour towards me with respect to this rule. I had made the mistake of letting this slip, and until then I had just been removing affection and attention from the wife, but without any positive response from her. The wife broke a final straw that day, namely relating to me treating her with deference and respect. I saw that she was no longer the sweet respectful young woman that I had met.

I bit my tongue and let her emotions blow over, then a couple of days later when she had calmed down and thought that it had blown over, I hit the nuke button to make her aware of a few things:

  • I would not tolerate her disrespect any longer. If she wanted to have me as a partner, then she would have to treat me like one
  • We had agreed upon the rule that I was trying to implement and I would not tolerate my wife's mutiny, and I would not let it drop.
  • I called her out on the criticisms that she would make for not doing household chores the way she would do them.
  • I said that she was treating me like a caretaker or a doormat, and that I'll no longer tolerate that.
  • I told her "If you do not ever want to be intimate and share pleasures that are supposed to exclusively bind a couple together, then we can find a workaround; but I don’t intend to live my life under enforced celibacy or be treated like a pet"
  • She had taken to dressing for bed like an eskimo - it was unattractive and extremely unsexy, and I did not appreciate that.
  • I would not cuddle her in bed if sex was not going to happen. It was like torture to me, and I would no longer do that to myself.
  • I had concluded that she was asexual, so I intended to open my end of the marriage. Unless she did anything to solve the intimacy problem, this was non-negotiable. Thus before finding the manosphere, I had executed a little low level dread, then assertively jumped directly to dread level 11.

I also asked her if she found me attractive. Her pause before responding (on top of years of behaviour) told me all that I needed to know. She said that she did, but I knew that she didn't. Over the coming months she made an effort to be more sexual, but but I saw it for what it was. She also tried to negotiate sexual access by getting me to do more jobs for her. I didn't go there, because it was clearly bullshit. Then I found the manosphere and started reading furiously and the fun really began.

When planning holidays I eliminated covert contracts regarding sex. There had been a terrible history of little to no sex on holidays. When arranging one holiday she wanted to save some money by taking a smaller apartment, which would leave the adults sleeping on a sofa-bed in the living area. I made it clear that I would no longer tolerate going on a holiday where bad logistics would ensure no privacy and booked a larger apartment with an additional bedroom. She wanted me to join her on holiday for a week at her parent's large holiday home and I refused (note that her job gives her considerable holiday time). She later asked why, so I explained that over the years, there was a history of almost no intimacy in that house (I think due to extreme prudishness when her parents are near). Furthermore, she would be looking after our kids as well as her brother's very young kids as a favour, and enjoying her parents' company. It would have left me doing nothing that I particularly, wanted for a week, and also unable to relax properly. I would not be able to leave the house and grounds easily due to having to transport all the kids. Simply put, I chose not to spend my time that way. This made her cry but IDNGAF. This was a matter of asserting my frame.

I ramped up my bodyweight resistance training and soon began visiting a gym to lift regularly (3-4 visits per week). I prepared a MAP, and began working on the areas that needed the most action: social life, approaching women, grooming, posture, frame, and game.

After an initial burst of sweetness and sexual interest from the wife, she returned to form and tried to re-assert her frame. She expected me to serve her long term interests (provide her with attention, affection, plenty of money, secure retirement, child-care duties, etc.) while my on-going happiness, life satisfaction and sex were to be considered unimportant. Shit testing increased as she tried to push me back into her frame, but I started to enjoy dealing with them. Time and again she tried to guilt and shame me into burying my sexuality, but I accepted none of it. I simply asserted (mostly unspoken) that I was a sexual man, and I will have sex whether or not it is with her.

On several occasions I just decided to give up on having sex with her, to have sex with another woman during the coming week. This showed itself as either turning down unenthusiastic sex and asserting that I don't intend to have sex with someone that doesn't want it, or ceasing all initiation in the face of extremely heavy shit testing. The result was rather surprising, as though she could read my mind. All of a sudden she began initiating hard and the quality of sex would increase significantly albeit only for a short while.

She really helped me to build my frame with various shit tests. One that sealed her fate for me any feeling of guilt relating to active dread or giving up on monogamy was her challenge that "I didn't have the balls that her father has". When she said that to me, I just smiled and thought to myself "I teated you with care and great respect, and this is my reward. The gloves are coming off. You do not deserve special treatment". That message was burned into my mind and I truly DNGAF about her feelings any longer. She hasn't cared about my wellbeing and has not treated me with care or sympathy. Another funny one that she threw at me with rancour was when she accused me of being 'needy'. I am competent, very handy, earn a good (most of the) income, and considerably more outgoing than her. The only thing that I considered that I needed from her (in the context of a marriage) was sex.

Since then she can be angry, sad, try to shame or guilt me, etc. and I truly DNGAF. I will now act in accordance with my own interests and mission. If she wants to join my happy existence, that's fine, if she doesn't then it's her loss. I am totally OI about the continuation of our marriage. I don't care if it ends because I know that I'll be happy regardless. It is now utterly clear that she wants the marriage more than I do. The balance of power has been reversed.

I enjoyed the strength training related shit tests that MRP had warned me to expect. She threw many flavours, including: Sexual attraction: "I don't like muscular men", "Yuck, you're all sweaty". (while of course saying things like isn't her bluepill friend's (heavily muscular) husband nice) Mockery: "Hah look at you, you're out of breath and you thought that you were fit", Guilt trip: "You bought that equipment, and you said we should cut spending", Frame assertion: "You're lifting weights, but you should be doing ..........". Negative judgement: disgusted / disapproving looks

After a couple of months, she gave me a weekend full of this shit testing, we both knew what was going on, and I just couldn't be bothered to play her silly game any further. I realise that this will not the generally accepted MRP endorsed approach to this, but it was at least funny. I nuked the silliness with a single text message when I was away on a business trip. I just asserted that she can stop pestering me about lifting weights because years of sexual denials had dented by self-confidence. It was non-negotiable. She replied by text with a WTF!!! and tried to make me feel guilty. That evening when I called her, she just hung up the call. That was no great loss since I no longer give a fuck. Over the coming days I didn't attempt to contact her, and she sent me some conciliatory messages that I ignored. By the time I returned, she was extra sweet. It followed a now typical pattern of clearly setting a boundary and refusing to tolerate her excessive bullshit, followed by better behaviour from her.

The current status of the marital sex life is that sex is essentially available on initiation. Nevertheless she will still almost never kiss. The sex has been considerably more passionate (no starfish) but extremely vanilla. Most of the time she still does not accept oral either way, or manual stimulation either way, toys, etc. Sex quality is gradually improving, but I'll no longer allow myself to be monogamous. She did not value monogamy, but has rewarded me for breaking away from it. She has almost completely stopped her bitchy whining when having sex, where she would make cutting criticisms such as "what the hell do you think you're doing!" when changing position. She never provided positive feedback. I recently caught myself DEERing, when she asked me, after sex (critically and disrespectfully) why I changed angle slightly because it was really good. In the moment I took her too seriously and explained that she needed to give positive feedback to get what she wants. The next time it happens, the IDNGAF service will have resumed and apply fully to sex. She will then be on the receiving end of laughter, teasing and amused mastery.

I have confirmed more Redpill predictions recently, relating to jealousy, mate guarding and hysterical bonding. Recently she went into full-on guarding mode when she observed an attractive younger woman, enjoying my company during a party and holding on to me. On another occasion she saw me twice during one morning chatting with different women from dating sites. The first time she gave a enquiring look and I returned with an IDGAF "so what?" look. The second time she asked me "Are you flirting with those women?", to which I responded with "Yep". Each time sex was much better afterwards.

I guess that judgemental non Redpilled people would call me a callous 'asshole' for doing all this, but IDNGAF. I can see no future for the marriage without proper intimacy. I cannot imagine that my wife nor I would want to spend time together after the kids leave home, unless proper intimacy is restored. I certainly will not tolerate having my time and commitment being taken for granted any longer, and I'll not accept disrespect. I'll certainly not spend my time, commitment and health while suffering bad sex only with her, just for her to later initiate a particularly comfortable divorce / separation arrangement.

For now, my journey continues, but I'm happy and enjoying life again. I'm not huge: 6'1", 180 lbs and sub-15% bf, while bulking and steadily getting bigger. Furthermore the children are happier and for what it's worth, so is the wife. I'm still at dread level 11, and don't actually plan on ever dropping the level again. I would like to thank the contributors to this sub for their wonderful insights, and the authors of the sidebar materials. I will sign off by 'doffing my hat', smiling and offering a warm "fuck you" to the fem-centric Bluepilled politically correct establishment and mass media and eagerly await my well earned chorus of 'faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.


Post Information
Title [FR] 1 year after discovering the manosphere - wall of text
Author Kingofdeadbedroom
Upvotes 14
Comments 67
Date 19 April 2018 08:34 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204604
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8dd5rx/fr_1_year_after_discovering_the_manosphere_wall/
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Comments

[–]drty_prRed Beret7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just some food for thought. You use the word sex 27x in this post. Chances are, if you come off thirsty for it from her as you do in this post, she finds you needy. Again, take that as you choose.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha - agreed, and that is entirely the point. It's also why I'll no longer allow myself to be dependent upon her.

And FWIW, it certainly was not always that way. I was rather relaxed about it for a long time. It was high time to stir things up.

[–]RPJMRP5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy

I hate your wife and I've never met her. However, that's no excuse. You have a ways to go. Don't be satisfied. Find your vision. Sell your vision. Make it a reality.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

She's not a terrible person, but you would probably not choose her company for fun and laughter. Over time I've just let her become that way within the relationship. As she absconded from her role as lover, I became considerably less upbeat and fun and had too many covert contracts in place.

She is nevertheless an excellent Bluepill mother, highly conscientious and loyal. Although she is clearly an AWALT.

Now that you say that; she may also be somewhere towards the autistic spectrum, is generally ever so serious, anxious, not particularly outgoing or fun. She is quite a perfectionist and doesn't have much of a sense of humour. I cannot recall her ever using self deprecating humour. She is highly judgemental of everyone. She is not at all tolerant.

In her eyes people are either the embodiment of all that is good or the polar opposite. For years she has enjoyed stating that she "is always good" and implying that I am anything but. Those statements are now met with laughter and amused mastery.

[–]wildnight98MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Start teasing her. She'll get mad but that lets you practice IDGAF. This is the path back to the fun relationship.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, and you're absolutely correct.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Teasing works on a woman who has her hamster spinning but still recognizes that her man is worth keeping. I’m not sure that’s the situation here. I read this more as she will just claim emotional abuse in addition to the likely claims of forced sex when she nukes him.

[–]RPJMRP1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck man you just Deered to an internet stranger, not in answer to a question either. Who gives a shit what I think of your princess autist?

Keep rolling. Let anger as a whole go, find your mission. Develop into a vision. Sell your vision. Implement.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck you too, and thanks for the thoughts.

[–]RPJMRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

insert thumbs up good luck

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She is quite a perfectionist and doesn't have much of a sense of humour. I cannot recall her ever using self deprecating humour. She is highly judgemental of everyone. She is not at all tolerant.

In her eyes people are either the embodiment of all that is good or the polar opposite. For years she has enjoyed stating that she "is always good" and implying that I am anything but. Those statements are now met with laughter and amused mastery.

i know this woman very well. she used to be my wife. the lack of humor in particular flows from your sensitive ego. she's afraid to let go lest your sensitive feels be hurt. be the FUN oak and it will change.

[–]weakandsensitive10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

That's a lot of words to say "I'm still super, duper, duper butthurt."

Your understanding of frame is poor. Your notion that you "assert" frame is laughable. Frame dominance, yes. Frame assertion, lol. You assert your will.

Your entire post is reactive to your wife's behavior.

/u/redpillrobert got torn apart yesterday on the main sub for writing a verbal diarrhea in response to /u/88will88's goading. This isn't any different. I'd argue this is worse.

Look - bottom line, if you don't like your wife and think you can do better, ditch the wife and go out and do better.

my well earned chorus of 'faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.

heh.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP fits the Macbeth quote perfectly.

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're right - it's a work in progress and particularly with respect to frame, I'm only starting to get it. Thanks for your insight.

Any anger I have is mostly directed at myself, for not having stood up for my own interests within the relationship. Regarding the wife, the pedestal has been dismantled. Now, once again, she has to earn and maintain her place within the relationship.

A certain amount of Rambo has certainly occurred over the last year, nevertheless it was time to reset the game's pieces. She had also demonstrated a readiness to escalate from pleasantness and was apparently ready to deal with it. I don't let anyone else push me about, and the wife is no longer an exception. I've learned not to need any validation from her.

Family life is now perfectly good and improving along with my frame, as my anger and resentment over the dead bedroom dissipates. FWIW I wouldn't want another wife or LTR. Significant work related travel allows me more than adequate opportunity to fish elsewhere.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Packed in u/weakandsensitive short comment to you, is the key you need. Your response only highlights your lack of understanding of all he said. "I don't let anyone else push me about" is not frame and it is not leading, it is reactive as stated above. Your anger is your weakness not strength.

Take this from someone that knows the two faced wild card of rage and weakness, Your anger pushes the boundaries of rage. Your rage feels strong, it is not. It is your fight or flight response that shows your fear.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm still super, duper, duper butthurt

True, but now he has a plan, boundary, and goals. My only concern is what you say:

"Your entire post is reactive to your wife's behavior."

He is still motivated by his rage and anger, not by a desire to improve for himself. He still sees his choice is to "cheat" if his wife does not do a, b, c or d rather than making his own choice.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t know where to start except that you talk a big game and get Dick for results. You operate to this point 100% in your wife’s feelz and think you are in control. You get in text battles with her and think you are “nuking” her. You demonstrate extreme levels of butthurt over simple, small stuff.

You have learned how to say the RP words but you don’t know what they mean.

You are worse than a noob. You are a noob that thinks he knows what the hell he is talking about.

You clearly think this post will be well-received (in spite of your attempt to appear humble at the end) which goes to show that you really don’t understand.

You are so bad at this that I won’t even call you an autist or a faggot. You are just sad.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” – Yoda

I see that you have a literal shitton of anger inside you. Honestly, from what it sounds like and expecially how long you've had it, you might want to consider ways to reduce your anger, whether it be from meditation or even seeing a therapist.

Posts applicable to your situation - https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3fpefe/every_unhappy_wife_is_a_rape_victim/

Expecially that last one. You might want to consider building more attraction. I know you say you're happy, but don't b.s. yourself.

Also, the no kissing thing is a bit of a red flag. Just shows that while she will fuck you, she's not going to like it.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm in full agreement with you on that. I've read extensively and I'm already familiar with those high quality posts.

I'm now working on becoming an oak, letting any negativity from her just fly past, while I continue with a satisfying life and having fun with the kids.

Throughout the marriage I had let her moods, criticisms and negativity alter my own mood. Over the last year, while resetting boundaries and expectations, I have been squashing any nastiness with a sledgehammer. It is indeed time to be more fun and attractive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you see that you are blaming her for the negativity that you have?

Do you see that this only justifies your anger.

Do you see that as long as you hold that anger you will be "squashing any nastiness with a sledgehammer" and that this might not be the best plan?

Do you see?

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

Also, the no kissing thing is a bit of a red flag. Just shows that while she will fuck you, she's not going to like it.

Fuck that is a huge red flag.

She will NEVER allow herself to like it. What more does the OP need to see in order to end it ? Prostitutes don't kiss their customers, so I'm told. That is how she views sex - a distasteful chore performed because she has to.

If it was me, it would be over.

[–]2ndalRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You're getting ribbed here in the comments, but I think you've made good progress--a lot more than many of the turds that come here regularly. You have a ways to go, but you've made progress.

I really can't fathom, though, why you're still with your wife. There is no love there. You say you DNGAF but the fact that leaving doesn't seem to be on the table tells me otherwise. I know there are kids in the picture, but you're raising them be okay with terrible relationships. How is your daughter going to treat her future husband? She's probably going to find some schlub she can manipulate much like your wife is manipulating you.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed I am getting ribbed. That's part of the fun of posting here.

You have a good point, but the wife is no longer playing me like that. The daughter's behaviour has improved very considerably since I stopped accepting crappy behaviour from the wife. I've also been applying heavy doses of amused mastery on her because she has now hit her teenage years and is a shit testing machine. She'll probably turn out well enough, but is clearly AWALT. I guess that most women will turn out like that, if their husbands let them. It'll be up to the future husband to deal with in due course, but someone may have some painfully learnt messages for him...

The boys were always doing really well. The youngest is a force of nature, full of fun and self-confidence. He'll do really well for himself, if he continues to keep his frame. The older one is ever so kind, genuine and 'nice'. His sister used to rip him apart with her shit testing, and I could see him suffering from a future of bluebell misery, so we've been having some fun. He now has a basic foundation in redpill theory. I have explained the mistakes I made during the marriage and what I've been doing about it. I have explained the basics of sexual strategy, NMMNG, WISNIFG and we have been slinging shit tests at each other. He's getting good at it. His self-confidence is increasing significantly. His popularity at school was good, and is now growing as he can cope well with ribbings, and easily responds with AM and pressure flips. He no longer needs to respond to ribbings with brute force.

Furthermore, he has girls interested in him and he is already employing game. Life is good. Over the last weeks, I have watched with amusement as he parries and pressure flips his sister's shit tests. She can no longer just push his buttons to make him angry or upset. I have also watched him skilfully deal with rare shit tests from my wife. He is still very 'nice', but he will probably turn out very well adjusted.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I really can't fathom, though, why you're still with your wife. There is no love there.

^ This.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I travel extensively for my profession. It allows me to have other relationships, but actually keeps the co-parenting arrangement simple.

I have no great need to divorce.

[–]FrogTrainer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I guess that judgemental non Redpilled people would call me a callous 'asshole' for doing all this,

And if you reverse the genders, they'd call all the things your wife is doing severely abusive. But that's the world we live in.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good FR post.

Your experience almost exactly mirrors what happened to me. I went through the vacations that included no plans for intimacy and being labelled needy too.

I predict in a couple months you will come to the realization that she is too obtuse, stubborn and rigid to ever change. You will then be forced to decide if you want to live with a woman like that for the rest of your life and get your needs met on the side or start over. I chose to start over.

What I found is that is that my relationship wasn't just toxic on the sexual level, there were many non sexual things that were bad that I didn't even realize. I suspect the same will hold true for you.

You've probably grown accustom to the shit tests, subtle put downs, attacks on your value and lack of appreciation. The problem is that those things weigh you down over time. It's like the frog in the hot water - you don't even realize that you are slowly dying. And trust me, you are probably slowly dying in that relationship.

I have undergone tremendous personal growth since my separation. Life is much, much better on the other side for many reasons that don't involve sex.

Sex is just a symptom of other issues in a relationship. Not only does she have no interest in your sexual needs, she also doesn't respect or value you. Yes there is hysterical bonding and she'll be somewhat intimate at dread level 11, but those aren't sustainable behaviours. And if those are her responses at dread level 11, that is the best you'll see from her. It is not like tomorrow she is going to wake up and say "yeah he is a really good man, I'm being a bitch, he deserves better, I'm going to give it to him." Nope. That ain't going to happen. She isn't accepting responsibility. In fact, she has probably labelled you as an asshole in this whole thing.

Some of the guys here will label you with rambo or angry, but fuck, it is what it is. You've got a woman that was very, very comfortable with the way things were and thinks that they should stay that way. She has no inkling of what it would be like to really attend to your needs and respect and value you. She has historically gotten her way by manipulation as evidenced by the car situation. So classic. She honestly does not know how and has no interest in ever developing a better relationship with you, because she feels entitled to what she had. In her mind, she is constantly going to go back to what she had and she will constantly blame you for no longer giving that to her.

Just like my ex, reality is going to hit her extremely hard. It will not be pretty for her when you leave.

BTW, you think staying together is good for the kids, but in reality it isn't. You are unknowingly teaching them about relationships for their future. They are going to mirror what they are now seeing. Children of divorce have excellent outcomes when one or more parents does a great job with them post separation. The horror stories you hear about children being damaged post divorce is usually due to parenting failures post divorce.

It will be interesting to follow your story going forward. Good luck and please keep us updated as things unwind.

[–]gameoflibidos1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're not leading bro. it's more like you are trying to beat her down with a stick. Don't let your own years of being a fucktard pussy boil up so much resentment of what you made of your life that you just wanna walk around with verbal baseball bat and just knock her out with it whenever she "is insolent"

Any response to her testing just oozes out of your pores as being sensitive and that its' getting to you.

Lead your family.. invite her along as the first mate.. if she comes, shes there to help not beat with a stick.

[–]PoxiMponigb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thats trippy shit

[–]shinolas0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

What was the rule they broke?

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

The rule concerned use of English language within the family as we don't live in an English speaking country at the moment.

The younger kids don't speak fluent English, but should be able to, and would be able to had the rule been correctly supported by the wife.

English allows the kids to communicate with my family, is so useful for accessing information, and will open many opportunities for them later in life. It is simply stupid to throw away that opportunity.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

now you sound even less fun. i agree the language is important.

rather than going full nuclear, you should have A&A your ass off in both languages.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

It wasn't fun, and I was being gaslighted.

The time for A&A was too long ago, and I failed then. Here a hard boundary reset was needed.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you want to win or be a winner ?

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The time for A&A was too long ago

No it wasn't. In this instance you determined a hard boundary reset was needed and that is all well and good but I hope you haven't given up on A & A, teasing, and having genuine fun with your family.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed, that is what I'm trying to do. I'm having plenty of fun with the kids.

The wife is proving a more difficult challenge. To add a second StarWars reference to the comments section: The force is strong in that one!

She is living up to the nickname assigned by a colleague years back "The iron fist in a velvet glove".

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for this useful and actionable feedback.

FWIW, I have had a great response from adding a large dose of teasing and A&A (combined with active dread).

With respect to the active dread, she asked whether I was having an affair with a younger woman, and whether I already had divorce papers ready. I wasn't having an affair with that woman, but didn't say so immediately or DEER. I let her hamster run into overdrive and during the course of a week she came to accept that I'm still far from satisfied with the intimacy AND that she cannot take it for granted that I'll gratefully the scraps that she offers without looking elsewhere.

She seems to be finally taking stock of her situation and the value that I bring to her life, and that she needs to be more intimate. At last, kissing seems to have been properly 'unlocked'.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Now it is time to "negotiate" the 10 second kiss every day.

Do it when you guys are getting along, perhaps after sex. Just tell her you read about a way to improve your marriage in just 10 seconds a day. Can we take 10 seconds every day to improve our marriage?

Of course she will say 'yes' (if she doesn't you have bigger problems). Then you just show her and kiss her for 10 seconds. Swap spit. Taste her. Do it every day. Don't use it to initiate sex, but it has been known to happen. the best time is when there is no pressure to have sex such as when you are leaving for the day. Get her turned on. Get yourself turned on. Then let it simmer for the day.

Make this a habit. It will reassure her and turn her on and make your marriage much more pleasant. Tingles Uber Alles.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks again. I think that sounds really corny, but I do understand that it's critically important in order to rebuild real intimacy. I plan to continue as though it's a given, and keep the speech in the back pocket to be used if necessary.

FYI, when she asked me 'why' when she thought I was having an affair with the woman, I replied that she wouldn't even kiss me (to highlight part of the deficiency).

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

"fuck you" to the fem-centric Bluepilled politically correct establishment and mass media and eagerly await my well earned chorus of 'faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.

this type of thing is so fucking gay and unattractive . . . why do so many of you guys say shit like this. if you think and talk like this IRL it's no wonder your wife hates you.

but I'm happy and enjoying life again

i can't tell from reading this post, including the end where dread is clearly working and your getting regular sex.

couple basic questions: where are you on the sidebar and what are your lifts?

your frame is one nonstop reaction to your wife.

fixing this should be your main focus. so what's your frame going to be. angry guy focused on how much his wife is a bitch? should be fun guy on a mission. build this life and frame. your wife may get on board and start kissing you again. if she doesn't you still win.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

where are you on the sidebar? Now into graduate level. I have read SGM.

What are your lifts? Lifts don't tell the entire picture since for years I have run hard, but without great weekly distance, and have been mountain biking with good endurance and power. I didn't measure my body fat before lifting, but it was probably somewhere around 20%. My legs and ribcage started off well developed, but not for lifting power. I have dropped some distance on the biking and added 3-4 sessions of weight training, substantially focused on arms, shoulders, back, and some core. Based on 5 sets of 5, not maximum lifts: Bent over row: 154 lbs Overhead press: 60 lbs Bench press: 159 lbs I also include plenty of chin-ups pull-ups, tricep dips, and a little ancillary stuff.

I'm not deadlifting yet, and have just started easy squats at 132 lbs. My legs don't yet need further work for aesthetic reasons, but they do need to recover from running and biking, and I'm working to improve hip flexibility.

FWIW, various people have recently mentioned that I look buff without being prompted. Some women and men are quite openly looking at my physique.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I no doubt took far too many soft no's to be hard no's.

Don't forget butthurt. I bet your next paragraph is all about lamenting the loss of sex. Butthurt kills attraction more than any other emotion.

sex all but dried up

Actually forget my 'next paragraph' prediction. It was the next sentence.

fuck you, you're not meeting my needs, so I'll not labour any more to meet your 'needs'". I started to restore some boundaries that had been abused. I picked up my sporting activities again

It is a shame that it took anger and bitterness to motivate you. We can do better than that. Motivation from altruism or being a strong leader trumps motivation based on anger.

my sporting activities will happen unless she can convince me to change plans with a an exceptional reason.

After all the Red Pill Autists posts I have read this week this is like a breath of fresh air. Good boundary! You go boy. You guys on the spectrum, notice how he set a reasonable boundary, made himself the final authority, and gave his wife the security of having an option and some control. +10 Nice Work!

She didn't want me to buy a car, so I just bought one. Fuck that disrespect. She knew better than to make any complain about it afterwards.

This is what it looks like when a man reasserts control. She fights, bitches, moans, complains, and digs in her heels. Then you go ahead and most of the time she doesn't say a word. Sometimes she will continue to try to undermine your decision and that can create serious problems in a relationship.

I wasn't going to set out to cheat on my wife, but if a cute woman took me in that direction, I wouldn't refuse.

I would bet this is the time when her panties started to mist up. She could feel her grip loosening.

I also gave up on trying to make her happy.

Loosening a lot at this point.

I found the deadbedrooms sub, and saw it for what it is: namely a useless pit of self-pity and inaction.

Confirmed.

I hit the nuke button to make her aware of a few things: - I would not tolerate her disrespect any longer. If she wanted to have me as a partner, then she would have to treat me like one - We had agreed upon the rule that I was trying to implement and I would not tolerate my wife's mutiny, and I would not let it drop. - I called her out on the criticisms that she would make for not doing household chores the way she would do them. - I said that she was treating me like a caretaker or a doormat, and that I'll no longer tolerate that. - I told her "If you do not ever want to be intimate and share pleasures that are supposed to exclusively bind a couple together, then we can find a workaround; but I don’t intend to live my life under enforced celibacy or be treated like a pet

Again, a lot of issues but presented sweet and succinct. I hope you did not argue a single one of these points. There was nothing to argue about. You told her, Level 9, this is the soft ultimatum, albeit with a few more words than you should have used.

All before even finding the manosphere.

she made an effort to be more sexual, but but I saw it for what it was. She also tried to negotiate sexual access by getting me to do more jobs for her

This was handled badly. You were not being attractive or seducing so you were initiating badly and now your wife initiates, badly. This was the only way your wife knew how to initiate sex with her husband and she tried and tried while you pushed her away.

I also asked her if she found me attractive. Her pause before responding (on top of years of behaviour) told me all that I needed to know.

The answer to the question and the pause was she does not find you attractive RIGHT NOW. That changes as you do better so her response is not as bad as you think.

All of a sudden she began initiating hard and the quality of sex would increase significantly

Right. Because she got the Dread. It is almost a Jedi Mind trick. Several manosphere guys claim that women can smell it and the iconic patreese o'neil famously said on attracting women: In order to catch a fish, you gotta smell like fish.

albeit only for a short while.

Because you are not consciously being attractive and seducing your wife. You can guilt her into it with heavy Dread and it can be desperate, relationship ending sex but it always tapers off unless you add in seduction. Have you read the Art of Seduction? What about bluepillprofessors videos on Seduction. Do you use Kino and basic PUA with your wife. Answering Shit Tests and teasing are great starts to this but the rabbit hole goes deeper. Google Kino and PUA and watch some videos.

setting a boundary and refusing to tolerate her excessive bullshit, followed by better behaviour from her.

Well that didn't take long for you to notice /s/

Sex quality is gradually improving

Now is the time for Sex God Method. Read it and learn how to pound her into the mattress. Your welcome.

She did not value monogamy, but has rewarded me for breaking away from it.

Not all do this but I think most do. It is a manosphere axiom that a woman would rather share an Alpha than be stuck with a faithful Beta. If this is what it took for you to be more "Alpha" your wife probably considers it a fair trade.

faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.

You get a "you go boy" from me.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your well reasoned opinions.

WRT your question about arguing the points; no, they were not up for discussion. She tried to DEER and negotiate, but was shut down directly.

Regarding women sharing an alpha, it sounds like bullshit or hyperbole, but it's clearly true. Before marriage I had enjoyed having more than one girlfriend at a time. The best times were spent when a girl knew for a fact there was another one. Wifey is no different.

I have added good doses of kino and tried SGM, but she seems really resistant to let herself 'loose control'. I believe that she deliberately puts erogenous zones off limits to prevent herself getting turned on.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you tell me when the movie comes out because i hate reading books.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Send me a cheque, and I'll post it to you.

[–]resolutions3160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty much everyone on here has noted this, but anger seeps out of literally every word in this post.

If you don't care about the marriage, no problem. If you want to actually save the marriage, then that anger is going to kill you and any chance of it.

You'll have to deal with it eventually, though.

I will sign off by 'doffing my hat', smiling and offering a warm "fuck you" to the fem-centric Bluepilled politically correct establishment and mass media and eagerly await my well earned chorus of 'faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.

I haven't cringed this hard at something here in a long, long time.

You don't need our/their approval. Stop dancing for the crowd and be honest.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

eagerly await my well earned chorus of 'faggot shaming' from the MRP veterans.

Even the newbs think you're a faggot.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha. Thanks!

[–]thunderbeyond-3 points-2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Awesome post man but quality belongs on the main sub. You've earned it.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

You forgot the sarcasm tag.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I like a public flogging.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Spank me!

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Well ya got spirit, I'll give you that.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Haha. Thanks.

I have a fun sense of humour, and a thick skin. I get the whole 'sparring arena' thing, and it's useful. I appreciate the slinging around of negative judgements, but that effort was nowhere near as good as the stuff the wife has been throwing at me for years. It'll take much more than that to hurt me now. WISNIFG was a good read.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I've got more respect for the guys that can respond and listen to the criticisms than those that post and fuck off never to be heard from again. I'd direct you to start posting in OYS.

Listen, learn, practise.

[–]Kingofdeadbedroom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Didn't think that you'd need a smiley with it.



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