Who cares if she leaves?

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88Will88
April 1, 2018
24 upvotes
askMRP

Posting here because this is just some surface level thoughts, rather than anything groundbreaking. There are some users here and in TRP who seem to be placing too much emphasis on how to “keep/control” your wife. Something about the whole tone and nature of the discussion disturbs me at both a subconscious and conscious level. My current feeling is that the GOALS differ between my style of red pill and those which place any importance on keeping a relationship. Worrying about a woman leaving shows a lack of abundance and shows that you give a fuck. Displaying either of these, or even feeling like that subconsciously is a weakness she will detect and detest.

My feeling now is that some guys are simply way too invested in keeping/controlling their wife. There are some tendencies to overthink and overcomplicate the idea of a red pill relationship. In my view there is no such thing as a red pill relationship, there is simply relationships led by red pill men. Worrying about the end of any relationship is essentially a bluish/purple pill. Some guys are adopting a trad con purple pill. Am I wrong here? I ask here because the members here have been there and done that so no point talking about LTRs in the main sub. My view on the red pill is that it is fairly simple in the context of a relationship, you simply are not scared to lose her. You don’t need a complicated relationship rule book, because if she leaves, that is great you spin plates again. If you want another LTR then just start one. Who gives a shit if she leaves?


Post Information
Title Who cares if she leaves?
Author 88Will88
Upvotes 24
Comments 74
Date 01 April 2018 07:37 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204663
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/88p9ai/who_cares_if_she_leaves/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
abundancelong term relationshipplatethe purple pillthe red pill
Comments

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard21 points22 points  (12 children) | Copy

Excellent post. I’m gonna say some shit that sounds like I’m arguing but then show that I’m not. Newbies, don’t read this post if you aren’t willing to read the whole thing.

I don’t want my wife to leave. I don’t want her to leave for many reasons which basically can be summed up as it would be (perhaps extremely) difficult for me to find another woman who can add as much value to my life as my wife currently does. That’s not oneitis as much as a recognition that when you have a truly high quality woman, it’s a pain in the ass to replace her.

I found MRP a year ago after fucking around for several years. What I’ve found after a year of implementing these principles is that I have a HB9/10 wife who is an excellent mother and great in the sheets. If she gets hit by a bus tomorrow, that’s a HUGE fucking loss. I’m like the guy who says “hey, I can find a bunch of jobs that could easily pay me $120k and then more down the line but right now I’ve got a job that pays $400k so I’m gonna keep my petal to the metal.”

That being said and thoroughly understood, my wife’s value to me has risen significantly as I’ve taken the pill mainly because I’m a better, more attractive person. I own my shit around the house, captain with a clear Family vision and mission, and Game the shit out of her on a pretty much daily basis. Here is an easy tell... I’m making her laugh multiple times per day based on the shenanigans I pull. She is having fun again and it’s due to RP.

Getting to this place again with a different woman as beautiful as her who is also as good around the house and kids would be a big, big time sink. I can better use that time keeping the high quality woman I have and spending the leftover time pursuing other parts of my mission.

Of course, my enjoyment of our current situation is based on our current relationship. If she spins off the deep edge for whatever reason, I know who I am and what I’m about. Furthermore and perhaps most importantly, I don’t approach our relationship like she is better than me or that I’m not worthy of her. I have internalized that I’m more than worthy of her and that is key to making her horny.

I’m not writing this as a some humblebrag masturbation session. This is intended as: a thank you to MRP; a reflection on why it can be ok to reach a point where you don’t want your wife to leave; and a lightpost for those guys starting out about the fact that change really is possible and this shit just works.

I’m probably burying the lead here but it is vital for guys new to MRP to understand that you must kill oneitis. There is a GIGANTIC FUCKING CHASM between “I recognize I’ve got a very high value woman that I don’t want to lose” and “my wife is the only woman for me and I must cater to her or she will leave me!”

[–]PersaeusRed Beret4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

excellent post on your part. it is a giant chasm; and interesting it flows that the better you have it the harder it is to just get it. hardER mode.

i'm not going to say my woman is a HB9/10 unless were weighting the scale for just 40+ women; but in so many ways she is a high quality woman.

I don’t want her to leave for many reasons which basically can be summed up as it would be (perhaps extremely) difficult for me to find another woman who can add as much value to my life as my wife currently does.

i am not really sure about this statement. it's true a high quality woman is 1 of a 1000 in the general population; but i've noticed these type of women tend to cluster in certain fields/hobbies/places so I am not sure it is THAT hard if you fish in the right water and sort aggressively. interested on your thoughts on this?

Here is an easy tell... I’m making her laugh multiple times per day based on the shenanigans I pull. She is having fun again and it’s due to RP.

agree 100%. along with an active sex life; her laughing a lot is the best indicator that all is well.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I could sort and fish aggressively but that’s a time sink. It’s a further time sink to get her ‘trained’ in what I like and don’t like. It’s a further time sink to learn the best ways to game her, etc. All of that time could be spent and I am confident I could do it. But why? I have what I want now and can focus my attention on executing the rest of my vision so long as she continues to play a good First Officer.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

these type of women tend to cluster in certain fields/hobbies/places’

I’m curious - can you expand a little on this? I’ll trade you for an upvote :-)

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

basically you go to places where women that own their shit (i.e. have some impulse control, long term goals, and take care of themselves) . . . the gym, yoga, sports (participating not viewing). same goes for professions: stem, doctors, accountants, lawyers . . . the hard majors.

money and success. what's the number one predictor for kids going to college, getting a divorce, longevity . . . . on and on . . . the wealth of the family you came from.

this is not to say that hypergamy is not in affect at all times; but what you start with matters a lot.

i personally come from "the wrong side of the tracks" so i have and do routinely interact the people high and low. the differences in behavior and habits are stark.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

u/GayLubeOil would argue that it's a matter of realizing your place. Of no longer denying your being....who you truly are. A realization that she is prey. we are predator and despite the chase, that she wants to be caught. There are times that even the best of self-actualized women can't absorb this fact ....hence the need to pass comfort tests while in a relationship.

Denying your true being, your inner self leads to a reasons people are angry, more accurately depressed. Depression is anger turned inward. What we see is largely lashing out at the world. We can see this in the Red Pill how men sit in the anger phase. They aren't mad at the world, at society, they are mad at themselves for believing it. For not listening to their self. We all hear it. We all know it, but we allow the bullshit to creep in.

It's no different with women, though the mental process is different.

Men have a large burden here. Those that do not understand thier role as predator will never truly capture high quality women. In order to do so they must also understand the prey mentality. Sure any wolf can knock off the weaker of the herd and live another day. But only the most able will find the best prey and grow.

To continue the prey/predator analogy, watch this video using men as the wolf and women as the deer. Then consider society the river.

While it's not man's responsibility to "restore" society, our actions will in fact do this. It all comes down to understanding and accepting who and what we/you are.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

pretty deep, i like it

There are times that even the best of self-actualized women can't absorb this fact ....hence the need to pass comfort tests while in a relationship.

yes, and this also drives the importance of cultivating "plausible deniability" in game in general, and extramarital game in particular as stacysmomlovesme has pointed out several times lately.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's been a unifying theory concept I have been mulling. No where near a post about it I don't think. Mostly because it seems too simple.

Maybe soon.

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

i'm not going to say my woman is a HB9/10 unless were weighting the scale for just 40+ women; but in so many ways she is a high quality woman.

I'm going to nit-pick here a bit for the benefit of others.

Characterizing a woman's 'quality' is problematic. It may seem to be merely semantics, but it's an internalizing of mindset.

A woman can be rationalized as 'high quality' when she's actually low value. This is a woman whose juice is not worth the squeeze... and she knows it. She knows she's in control of the relationship and you are in her frame. She knows that an abundant man who has options would never put up with her low effort shit.

A man who identifies his woman as high value, worthy of his effort and provisioning, and acts accordingly 'just gets it'.

It's subtle, but the message is clear...

High Quality = her frame. High Value = your frame.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

benefit of others

nit-pick away brother, whether you know it or not your advice her applies to me in spades. i'm going to restate some of the thoughts you laid out here to make sure i'm understanding correctly, partially because i don't see the connection to the linked Rollo post

A woman can be rationalized as 'high quality' when she's actually low value to you

in other words she can have a lot of "high value" traits, making $$$, hot, good mom, owning her shit, not being a cheating whore, being smart and dynamic, etc. ; all the while seeking to control the relationship and you or not adding value to you directly beyond the extraneous things (like $$$ for example).

She knows that an abundant man who has options would never put up with her low effort shit.

i'm not convinced most (and certainly not all) married women know this. rather than entitlement and solipsism blinds them to this fact until they are somehow slapped around with it.

and acts accordingly 'just gets it'.

this is where you lost me. the link is to Rollo's "the myth of the good guy". not sure if this was your intent or you mean't to link Rollo's just get it. if it's "just get it" then i think i understand what your getting at. the man who "just get's it" won't settle for anything less than the value you describe.

High Quality = her frame. High Value = your frame.

yeah i understand this. i'd give my wife a 8/10 on quality and a 5/10 on value (and that's after DL12 before it was more like 3). once again frame is the answer and the trap.

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

in other words she can have a lot of "high value" traits, making $$$, hot, good mom, owning her shit, not being a cheating whore, being smart and dynamic, etc. ; all the while seeking to control the relationship and you or not adding value to you directly beyond the extraneous things (like $$$ for example).

No doubt this is true, but I was thinking in terms of a man's ego investment in whatever he deems as 'high quality' (social proof of having a hot wife, for example) compared to the value she actually brings to his life. At the end of the day, does she make your life easier or unnecessarily harder?

i'm not convinced most (and certainly not all) married women know this. rather than entitlement and solipsism blinds them to this fact until they are somehow slapped around with it.

Most married women don't know this because nobody wants to fuck their husbands, most especially them.

A woman married to an abundant man with options may not be to articulate the anxiety of preselection but she damn well feels the fear that if she doesn't keep her man's belly full and balls empty then another woman will happily replace her.

i think i understand what your getting at. the man who "just get's it" won't settle for anything less than the value you describe.

Yeah, you got it. The Myth of the 'Good Guy' was an epiphanal post for me.

There is no Alpha with a side of Beta, there is only the man who’s genuine concern is first for himself, the man who prepares and provisions for himself, the man who maintains Frame to the point of arrogance because that’s who he is and what he genuinely merits. There is only the Man who improves his circumstance for his own benefit, and then, by association and merit, the benefit of those whom he loves and befriends.

That’s the Man who Just Gets It.

If you give a low value woman who does not merit your precious resources (most especially your time), she knows that she owns you because you clearly don't 'get it'.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

At the end of the day, does she make your life easier or unnecessarily harder?

to this simple test, it's an empathetic easier. maybe i'm asking the wrong question or too much (consensus is i'm using TRP to achieve blue pill goals). would appreciate your take on my OYS from last week.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

What needs to be brought back is the push to find a lawyer, get educated on the paths, save a fuck you fund, and develop a plan that can be executed at a moments notice. Fear of the unknown holds a lot of men back.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

get educated on the paths, save a fuck you fund, and develop a plan that can be executed at a moments notice.

Yes. Without this exercise, there's not a go plan.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The primary weapon of the feminine imperative is male self doubt!

[–]screechhaterRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

This depends the value input of the SO and the level to which your drunk capatain-ness reached over time

In the grand scheme of things, the correct answer should be, obvious and if the noobee were to read as directed, instead of pulling snippets, the answer and direction becomes clear

However, we must remember the newly unplugging generally believes the feminine directive and the words the SO stating "I don't need sex everyday you know"

Truly, most here have greatly over complicated everything and taking too much of Rollo's load of "Wake up America" writings and internalizing hate, when instead they should hit the gym, wardrobe stores, get some sleep with the idea of growing muscle and get some friends out of the the house creating dread and in turn making the heart grow fonder. All the books add up to a great mindset so far off the entrenched plow horse path, but it takes staying positive with the new found info to move forward

Too many are afraid of change and the great abyss out there called life.

Recently, I have been trying to do what it takes to romance my wife in the same manner as when first met, I thought, "This can't work, between work kids, stress......." my wife whispered in my ear, "A hotel, Netflix and lot's of uninterupted sex....."

Who'd of thought, a little work, showing some effort could payoff on the gate keeping bitch of America, spilling her thoughts ?

Stay plan is the go plan, especially if she turns down another 69

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This.

Hopefully there are some guys here who were not total fuck ups before they met their SO. If so, become that guy again.

Over the past almost two years I have been on the road to be that guy again (in college). I was in shape with a six pack. I was running game on multiple girls (always had a back up plan so DNGAF). Had a high paying job lined up at a top firm once I graduated. Even in college I was great with money , worked and saved to buy my own car. I also knew how to cook, clean and take care of my shit. I did not need a woman (well, unless I got tired of my hand). And most importantly I had a vision.

FF about 12yrs, a marriage and two kids - I was moderately successful but directionless. My wife/marriage was my mission. That version of me limped on for about 6 more years until I found The Pill.

Men who are afraid of losing their wife have most likely made their wife/marriage their mission. This strategy typically ends in failure.

Find your mission/vision and pursue it relentlessly. That makes the decision to stay or walk (if it is your decision) much easier.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Am I wrong here?

no

In my view there is no such thing as a red pill relationship, there is simply relationships led by red pill men

this 100%. in fact, i would go farther and say there are multiple relationship models that can be effectively practiced by red pill men. the converse of this statement; not so much.

without a shred of doubt, the number one factor in my relationship on how much effort she puts into it is how much she believes i have no problem walking out the door. second is how much value i add. this is why dancing monkey program fails.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

the number one factor in my relationship on how much effort she puts into it is how much she believes i have no problem walking out the door. second is how much value I add

That was simply, and, well said. I'll add that the path getting there is so much more than just adopting the concepts. It is also about deleting old concepts.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Amen, brother.

Not only do you have to think that you aren't afraid to leave, you have to display it, communicate it and mean it. Here is my path, babe. Are you on board or not ?

I was in a 4 month relationship with a pretty good woman. In February she started chirping about a few things. She wasn't disrespectful, but she was voicing concerns. This happened a number of times.

I didn't get mad. I didn't argue with her. I AA'd her. I DGAF because I know that I'm on a good path. One night I said to her "I'm sorry you feel that way. This relationship isn't working for me. Let's end this." And I did.

She was dumbfounded. Didn't see that coming.

I went into monk mode. Had the best month plus of my life ever. So focused. So stable.

I opened a POF, got lots of attention. Got turned off at the obvious hypergamous displays of the women there. I don't need that. I didn't even talk to the woman giving me the big smile and checking me out in Costco.

2 weeks ago my ex texts me. Just making sure I'm OK. Yep I am. Yesterday she calls me. Just making sure I'm OK. Yep, all fine here.

She is still invested in me. Because I'm her best option. She knows that. I know that. I gave her things that other men couldn't. Stability. Strength. Vision. Does she want that ? The path forward isn't negotiable. I'm not addicted to pleasing her. I don't need her affirmation. I can easily live without her. Is she on the bus or not ?

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not only do you have to think that you aren't afraid to leave, you have to display it, communicate it and mean it

Yes, when I went Rambo and overdreaded my wife about a year into MRP, she told me she wanted a divorce. I said , ok, whatever. Over the next 24 hours, I hung out with buddies and had a good time while she cried in the spare bedroom. The next night, I went into the spare bedroom and said “come downstairs immediately. I’m going to fuck you.” She cane down... immediately. And that was that.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Still seeking validation eh?

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You are very insecure.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

some learn lessons.

others are the lesson

[–]Senor_Martillo0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sigh, dude these are the shit tests of askmrp, and you keep failing them.

The poking, the prodding, the calling people faggots and retards. They are 100% intended to get under your skin, test your frame.

You gotta just let em slide.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

:rollseyes:

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is like the phrase "what's she gonna do, leave?"

[–]TurdDoctor2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

My view on the red pill is that it is fairly simple in the context of a relationship, you simply are not scared to lose her.

Bingo. I think a difference between a new guy and one that's further along is that the new guy tells himself this in the anger phase but obviously is still scared to lose her.

The guy that's further along calmly, confidently, truly cares 2 fucks if she leaves or what she says.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I believe that on a deeper subconscious level we know we are not a monogamous species.

Soceity has told us otherwise and that is where the conflict in our minds come from. The need to 'own' everything we have around us, including the love and adoration from our women.

[–]broneilbro2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I got your gist. Question do you have kids? I kicked the oneitis but its still there as she is the mother of my daughter and I know how important a solid family is. She is the child of divorce and so she is aware of the impacts as she lived them but she isn't really aware of the impact to her emotional and relationship abilities if that makes sense.

I went from "OMG I can't live without her", to "She will always be the mother of my child but she might not always be my wife. The catalyst for this was talking to her father about the divorce and he said he stayed with it as along as he could but it was too much and wore him out. Her mom didn't want to work on it and he stayed for my wife. He mentioned that he was unhappy for the last few years and wish he would have left sooner when her mom gave up.

This really hit with me as it made me think 2 happy but separated parents are better than 2 unhappy but together. While its not preferred if my wife and I get to the point where it won't work, I'll separate but will have 50% custody vice the bullshit that her mom put her dad through. I could use this as leverage if it gets to the D10 but as of now we are not there...best to have a plan instead of not having one regardless of how bitter it is.

[–]broneilbro2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's like the stoic...if you see everything as broken once it breaks you have already accepted it...

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Worrying about a woman leaving shows a lack of abundance and shows that you give too much of a fuck.

+1 Will.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

My view on the red pill is that it is fairly simple in the context of a relationship, you simply are not scared to lose her. You don’t need a complicated relationship rule book, because if she leaves, that is great you spin plates again.

you should never have stopped spinning plates in the first place. that's how you show you don't care if she leaves, and it's what keeps her from leaving. women who have their hands full trying to keep their lion corralled don't have any energy left to try to corral another. if she knows if she turns her head towards another, the one she has will gleefully jump the fence, she won't turn her head at all

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

don't go out of your way to project your lifestyle upon others. the cost-benefit analysis differs between men based on their values.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Take full ownership of yourself. End any ownership of her.

[–]drty_prRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Most MRP users are lying to themselves if they deny that there is a burgundy contrast on the edge of their red. With that said, if she wants to leave, she knows where the door is.

[–]Fritz_Frauenraub0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, this is pretty much where my head is at too.

When I pilled 8 months ago and started flailing around, my wife went through some type of mirror rage-phase and began to utter divorce threats in the course of every blowout argument...that is to say, a couple if times a week.

This never failed to terrify me and have me dancin', DEERin' & supplicatin'. Back in your betabox, boy! (All while fooling myself that I was "holding brutal frame" because I didn't actually drop to the floor and grab her around the knees...nothing like a detailed blow-by-blow pill diary to keep you ruefully honest in retrospect...)

Then at some point she overplayed her hand and I just gave up on the marriage and went through a deep but strangely short period of grief and depression. When I came out the other side I experienced this DNGAF thing for the first time.

Same meltdowns, but all of a sudden my frame felt stable, instead of being a shallow mask that she could see right through. My initiations took on a devil may care, fuck it aspect...after all, this shitshow is already over. We're just dancing on the ruins.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Where a lot of guys miss it is that they rationalize why her.

  • Because of the kids
  • Because I want THIS ONE in my mission
  • I see a life with HER

I can see most of this. Hell I have said most of these in the beginning. I am not a harem plate spinner. I know that about myself. And there are Alphas here that have decided the one in their life is the one they want. YET, they completely accept the fact that she can make her own decisions. right or wrong, and they she may not want to be there. Red Pill is not about keeping the ONE girl. You will find her. You will find that one that you want. Still, it's not entirely your decision. It's about you and maximizing your sexual strategy. took me a good long while to realize that most things in the world revolve around a man's sexual abilities. And not just in terms of fucking either but that is a much more advanced lesson.

So sure you want that shrew in your life. list the reasons, rationalize it how ever you want to. but if she cheats on you, gives you ILUBNILWU speech then it should be the clue that everything she did and said was a lie and that your dreams and goals were fiction to begin with. The only anger you should have is that your vetting process was wrong.

Plating is a method. trust me plating is not my thing. I don't judge other men for doing it though, but plating is not the only option available. i often say even betas can get fucked. I know PUAs to this day that are beta as fuck and can get women. they aren't the quality women an Alpha can get but....sex is sex.

What many of you aren't doing is looking at the reverse side of the coin here. 88Will88 points out that many are assuming the tradcon view of the world. making your marriage work. No. MRP fixes the man not the marriage. Your current shit show of a situation is just the perfect octagon. She isn't just going to leave you immediately if you go all rambo. Sure it usually happens BUT only because you learn that you ultimately hold the power here. The relationship ie the marriage, is what you are giving her. remove it. remove your awesome self and she usually responds.

Thinking marriage meant anything in this modern world is a false dichotomy. Even though money can't buy a woman happiness. the government cannot give a woman true commitment nor security. it fools them just as it fools us. Only red pill men know the truth and use that truth to further their ends in it. we don't like it but we just live here.

Didn't mean to hijack your post Will.

[–]hack3ge0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

In my case I've gotten the ILUBNILWU, "we don't have chemistry" aka tingles and she at a minimum had an emotional affair. AWALT / hypergamy for the win in my case.

I've been wrestling with those three bullets since I started MRP and I feel like everyone starting to unplug has this exact internal conflict. If you can't get past those 3 things you really can't move forward unplugging. This is how I've been able to get my head around the situation:

  • "Because of the kids": Drop the idea of the kids needing you to be married to her. At the end of the day the kids need a strong masculine role model, a dad who teaches them how the world works and your time/effort in their life. Notice none of that requires you to be married. Also, someone here mentioned that you actually don't get less time with your kids if you get 50/50 custody and usually its more quality time because you plan it. Solution: Spend more quality time with your fucking kids without her and see how well they respond
  • "Because I want THIS ONE in my mission": This is oneitis, just fucking stop it. This is where abundance comes into play - you truly have to know deep down that she isn't perfect, special, unique or however you want to rationalize this thought. Solution: Go fucking talk to other women, see how they respond, notice how good of a conversation you can have with a complete stranger
  • "I see a life with HER": Of course you do you are married to her and with her now. This is just the normal human reaction to a fear of change and each person deals with it in their own way. A quote I carry with me is "You shouldn't fear change but rather you should fear things staying the same." You need to be able to see a life without her. Solution: Figure out what it is that makes you fear the change then take a week or a month and do fucking literally just that. For me it was choreplay and finances, so I spent a month running our house doing literally everything she did plus what I do, I did a budget for me post divorce and figured out the actual finances for the divorce. At the end of the process, I realized it wasn't so scary and that shit would be fine.

This second part might be slightly off topic but was my natural progression to the above phase. Once you address these items and start to really NGAF you will hit the anger phase and your ego is going to hamster. Its going to cause you to question a lot of different things:

  • Why do I have to own my shit but not her?
  • How is it fair to completely absolve her of responsibility for her actions?
  • Why is it on me to get over what happened and the way she treated me?
  • How does someone like her deserve the improved me?
  • Why put in the effort if I could easily replace her right now and have someone who wants to fuck me?
  • We were married, how was it okay that she was not faithful/loyal/<insert any quality you think she should have been>?

I'm in the anger phase right now so this is amplified 1000x for me so its been helpful to remember some key pieces of advice I've picked up along the way:

  • Even if there was a contract you thought you agreed to, you didn't fulfill your part so how can you blame her for not fulfilling hers
  • Women just don't love the same way you do, its all about the moment and her feelz - learn to unfuck yourself from the dream of a happily ever after Disney fairy tale life
  • Don't make a decision about her value to you or how you feel about the past until shes sucking your dick and fucking you regularly - this will change your perspective
  • There's a good reason its 12 months minimum worth of work before the fuck you, fuck me conversation - trust the process and work your MAP
  • Be aware of how your anger impacts your interactions with your wife, its very easy to come across as butt hurt or a straight up asshole - my guess is this is why most Rambos happen

I'm knee deep in all of this right now because really IDGAF at this point if she walks and now I'm struggling with if I even want it to be her.

I am Jack's anger phase....

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a good comment. A lot to unpack here for men on the path.

I could go into analysis on this but I won't. You should do a FR on your anger phase. Seems like you have a good handle on what is going on, why, and where you're headed.

It's always helpful for men to see that it's all the same bullshit.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agree with ReddJive on this, definitely worth a FR.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

she at a minimum had an emotional affair

Likely to blow you off from that high horse hamster you're got yourself on... there are no emotional affairs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Also agree .... FR time for you.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who gives a shit if she leaves?

Me neither.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy

Who gives a shit if she leaves?

My kids and my bank account as far as tangible effects. I’m sorta attached to the kids. I kind of like the bank account too.

Am I wrong here?

Yes. If you want to be objective. The dissolution of marriage is a major setback towards my objectives personally. If what you said were actually true every man here should file for divorce....NOW.

You are confusing concepts. Red Pill isn’t about reducing your relationships with women to mattress time. As if one plate is just as good as another. It’s about making sure you get mattress time, and more broadly what you want out of your plates. That requires you to act like a man. It doesn’t mean you internalize a disinterest in the value your relationships have to you. It means you act confidently without fear while acknowledging that value.

Yeah fucking divorce is a pretty negative fucking outcome. It sucks. But like nuclear weapons, the best way to get hit with one, is to show fear of them and indicate you won’t use them yourself if need be.

Yeah I think your concept needs some work.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

not to get all semantic on you, but take a look at the difference between indifferent and independent. no one is saying to be indifferent to divorce; but instead to be independent of it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

“Who gives a shit if she leaves”

Is indifference not independence.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

can't argue with that literal interpretation of the sentence. i see through will's hyperbolic-speak to his underlying mental model; and find it useful. no need for me to defend the hyperbolic language; other than to point out that these simpler models are often useful for men struggling to lift there head out of the cesspool.

The more complicated discussion is that there are things you subjectively value about your marriage such that you don’t want to end it right this second; How do you act with indifference to those things such that they aren’t a liability?

to which you answer

I say your automy of action should instead come from the courage to burn it all if necessary regardless of how you feel about it. Overcome your attachments instead of pretending they don’t exist.

i agree; and think you and will are in violent agreement.

As a matter of material monism marriage has no upside, placing any benefit as either subjective or non-material take your pick.

care to unpack this sentence. i confirmed the definition of monism; but your meaning evades me?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

care to unpack this sentence.

In the more modern sense of material monism is a ontological view which excludes the non-tangible from objective existence. IOW something must be made of material to really exist. This stands in contrast to more common types of ontologies which admit the objective existence of non-tangible objects. When we talk about metaphysics we have at our base an ontology which at least must have dualism.

Red pill being a strictly empirically generated material system has an underlying principal of ontological monism and therefore concludes indifferently to what some see as objective concerns, in the most common sense, morality.

So if you ascribe to some form of pluralistic ontology with something like objective morality, you might find, for instance, that marriage now has objective value, though non-tangible rather non-material value.

Red Pill doesn't help grappling with these sorts of concerns. Suffice the entrance into Red-Pill empiricism with these types of concerns rather than use objective/non-objective, for the pluralist would often believe moral concerns to be objective, should instead consider the tangible which Red-Pill directly addresses, with the intangible, which Red-Pill leaves as "special concerns" with a stern warning that they themselves could compromise Red-Pill efficacy to the extent they compromise Red Pill methods.

One clear case of that would be marriage. Certainly entering into marriage can only be justified on non-tangible grounds either of concerns of subjective value or moral concerns completely outside the tangible. And doing so immediately compromises Red-Pill efficacy in the absolutely best case sending the rest of your relationship into a correction of sorts of that principal compromise.

That's why I see the situation as sort of a self mastery of your concerns about why you are and stay married. Many, in fact most concerns of blue-pillers are mostly just whining about "mah-feels" like a little girl that paralyzes them from good actions and good strategies in their marriage. That's where will has a very valid point. Certain blue-pill concerns will wreck a marriage and have to be excised if you want to keep your marriage. They are simply incompatible with anything like the married life. You can't expect to live life as a whiny little beta-bitch and expect to get laid and stay married. Those things just have to go.

However for the balance of concerns which themselves aren't incompatible, to which you have an interest in preservation, the wrong strategy would be to act to protect those things. Paradoxically like being on a battlefield acting to prioritize protecting your life is an excellent way to lose it. Whereas, acting offensively to destroy those things that threaten your life, even though doing so places your life at immediate risk, is a more reliable strategy for survival in battle. So to eradicating threats to your relationship in marriage requires confrontation which carries with it risks. You have to have the courage to take on those confrontations and risks confidently.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

The Idea of dating again and fucking other people, men and women, sounds fantastic to me.

I can see a path where I thrive with full custody, shared custody, or just weekends.

If I found out she was cheating it would be a relief, it's a kill shot to the marriage.

I do not give a fuck if it ends.

Her power is gone, it was me that handed it to her, it was me that took it back.

It was always me.

I have a full action plan for a divorce, written down and ready to go. We all should.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

fucking other people, men and women, sounds fantastic

I only use the word faggot sparingly, but i believe it applies here.

[–]bourbonhipster0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Married "red pill":

How do I get my wife to fuck and respect me again?

Divorce is NOT an option

I'm totally focusing on me damnit! No but seriously why isn't my wife noticing all the extra stuff I'm doing!?

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I AMOST completely agree with you.

Those men aren’t over-invested, they are...

AFRAID.

Why?

Because they have nothing going on themselves and lack the confidence to actually man the fuck up and be responsible for their own shit.

I divorced my first wife because she is a useless piece of shit.

I am divorcing my second wife because she is a liar and a cheater.

Ironically, I forgave the cheating on blue pill me.

But she continued to lie to Red Pill me.

Bye-bye



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