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Unspoken medium/hard no during sex, along with "you're so handsome"...

Reddit View
March 2, 2018

Hi guys

I'm looking for advice on how to deal with sex becoming an issue in an otherwise good relationship. Background matters (we have a 10 month old baby son) - added below.


Sometimes when I initiate sex, my wife has started to physically and mentally clam up. I'll be kissing her body, and see that her jaw is set, and she'll be glaring at the ceiling, or she'll break away from mouth kisses - I guess this an unspoken "medium/hard no". This doesn't happen every time - sometimes sex just happens and is great (she's responded well to SGM). But this response has increased over the last year. I've either responded by continuing until she actually engages (the sex can be ok to great), or stopping and doing something else (we're mostly in bed, so I go to sleep).

So this week when I got the "clam up" response. I stopped and said "this doesn't feel right". This led to a discussion with my wife doing the talking. Paraphrased highlights:

  • "When you touch me [in bed], I clam up because I know you want sex, and I have to perform"
  • "I haven't felt sexy or thought about sex all day/week until you touched me"
  • "The last year has been the most [negatively] emotional year we've had in our relationship"
  • "You're the most handsome and strong you've ever been"
  • "I want to have great sex with you long-term"

I'm looking to reduce the "clam up" response...



  • Been in a relationship for 10 years, married 7 years, have a 10 month old baby.
  • My wife is on maternity leave, going back to work part-time next month. I've seen quite a lot of my wife + baby as I work from home.
  • We're in a routine due to the baby. The baby occupies my wife's day until he's put down early evening. We each do individual activities 4 evenings a week, so there's 3 evenings when we could hang out. So sex happens at bed time, was averaging once a week.
  • We're not spending much quality time as a couple - think we've only gone out two evenings in the last 10 months, with a baby sitter home.
  • Sex got formulaic when we were trying for a baby. We were on the clock ("have to have sex on Wed, as best point in cycle"). I've made efforts to improve this in the last 6 months with SGM, which has worked well.
  • I'm the slimmest and strongest I've ever been, which explains the "handsome" comment. Do body weight exercises, BJJ and another sport.
  • We've had disagreements in the last year over baby-related issues, like how to get our son to sleep though nights (which he now does). I held frame, we compromised - but it was emotionally painful.
  • I reckon my dread levels are low - I work from home, and my two sports mainly done by men.


My read on this is that I'm not making wife feel sexy enough over days/weeks, so she's not wanting to have sex when I initiate. Things aren't being helped by having a baby, my wife being on maternity leave, and my lack of dread.

So I'm thinking I need a re-read of MMSLP, to up kino + sexy stuff during the day time, and spend time with my wife as a couple (no baby).

I'm unsure whether I should initiate sex less (for now). I'm also unsure whether I should cuddle/caress my wife in bed, without an expectation of full sex (this is what my wife seems to want). This might help with relaxing her if she's thinks I'm going to jump her every time, or might backfire..

Thoughts + advice appreciated.

Post Information
Title Unspoken medium/hard no during sex, along with "you're so handsome"...
Author platypus987
Upvotes 7
Comments 41
Date 02 March 2018 10:38 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
hard nodread gameframekino

[–]LBEB8015 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you aren't gaming your wife at all.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret13 points14 points  (9 children) | Copy

i was going to write a bunch of advice, but then i checked your post history and fucking cringed that a year ago you wrote a post about not being able to stick your dick in your wife while she sleeps naked next to you.


a year later and not lifting, WTF?

no mention of NMMNG (you btw) or other sidebar except MMSLP (our book for 3rd graders)?

I'm also unsure whether I should cuddle/caress my wife in bed, without an expectation of full sex

yes you should, tension and dread are your answers.

[–]Alpha_Engineer993 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Ha. I knew he was a cuddler ...

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

I bet he angry wanks too

[–]JudgeDoom692 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

angry wanks

Hey man, don't knock his hobbies

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Don't be moralizing

[–]JudgeDoom690 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I was trying to be funny. It's a line from the Woody Allen movie "Hannah and Her Sisters"

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah I was too, lets have a moment of silence for the joke that just died :(

[–]sivarias1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

moment of silence

[–]JudgeDoom692 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

not being able to stick you dick in your wife while she sleeps naked

He just wanted to put the tip in

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

balls tip deep

[–]2ndalRed Beret12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy

Some of this sounds like my situation a couple of years ago, when my two kids were much younger, and I was a complete ding dong.

My wife used to complain about being "overly touched" or "touched out" when our kids were young and hanging all over her throughout the day.

When I pressed her on why she wasn't fucking me, she would say things like "I honestly don't care about sex; I never even think about it."

Back when I was a ding dong I would internalize this as shame. Why do I want sex from my wife? Am I some sort of pervert?

My breakthrough came when I realized that internalizing that as shame was yet another carryover from childhood. My parents never gave me the talk, were never passionate with one another (unless you consider screaming matches "passionate"), and my mother demonized sex at important stages of my sexual growth as a teenager, and my dad never taught me what was normal and okay.

So as an adult this carried into my marriage, and as we had kids and my wife started to pull away sexually more often, I internalized that in the exact same way--as shame.

So no you should not change how you initiate. You are a man, you have needs, and you're not ashamed of those needs.

Do you want to cuddle and caress your wife without having sex? Then do that. If not, then don't.

Initiate when you want. That is not "neediness." It is only needy when you act like a ding dong in the face of rejection. Use initiation as a path to getting the sex you want or building your rejection tolerance on your own terms, not based in shame, not based in feeling inadiquit.

But to really solve all of this you need to do what the sidebar says to do. That is why it's there.

You need to be a strong, fit, and fun leader who is not ashamed of his sexuality and proudly initiates when he wants to fuck his wife.

Right now your wife is annoyed by this. She may not even know what the hell is happening, but it boils down to her not finding you attractive right now. This is tough to hear but it's true. There are a lot of elements of attraction though. It's not just being "hot" or "funny. "It could be because you're a ding dong, it could be because she has baby all over her all day, it could because you come across as a creep when you initiate, it could be because you're a fat ass and she's sick of it -- it doesn't really matter honestly.

You need to focus on being the man you know you need to be, not because of her, not because of your kid, but because living any other way is intolerable. You need to have goals and you need to move hell and earth to meet those goals. You need to lift heavy weights and carve your body into a greek fucking sculpture. You need exemplify the man who lives in the type of fun, sexual atmosphere you wish you had. Your wife will come around....ore she won't. But you win either way.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

overly touched" or "touched out"

You can always bend her over and then the only place you touch are the Vag and her hips.

[–]cm-man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. Great response. I have similar childhood issues. Learned a lot from your post. Thank you

[–]platypus987[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great response, thanks - can relate to it a lot.

You're right about there being any number of factors why my wife isn't finding me attractive right now. It could be baby-related, or me, or likely both.

Rather than second guess, I'll focus on what I can improve: me.

[–]Alpha_Engineer999 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

“I'll be kissing her body”....

Your initiations are weak & timid and come across as creepy as fuck to her. That’s why she clams up, clinches her jaw, and stares at the ceiling.

Don’t make it a Lifetime movie. I used to have soft, kissing, caressing touches too, it’s creepy as shit. Stop it. She doesn’t want that. Be a fucking man and take that pussy. Your pussy.

Don’t listen to a Fucking word she told you. Don’t over think it. Don’t get in arguments about the baby routine again. Let her handle baby shit. What the fuck do you know about babies? Stfu. Your strength as a father comes into play when the baby gets older- that’s when you call the shots.

Initiate hard. Pick her up, move her physically , show her your strength.

Build tension earlier during the day. Probably waiting till the last minute at bedtime.

10 months old are hard, Plan activities out together with the baby then, if no babysitter, and kino and game the fuck out of your wife.

“We’re not spending quality time as a couple””

Don’t fall into the we need a date night scam for you to get laid. If YOU want to take her out, ok, then do it. No covert contracts for sex afterwards. You don’t need more quality time with her. Fuck that.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Simple really. Build sexual tension earlier in the day. Hitting her hard out of the blue does not give her time to 'get her mind into sex mode'.

If you have built sexual tension and she starfishes you (that is what it is called btw), the recommended remedy is going caveman on her. Quit the caressing and kissing her erogenous zones. The only erogenous zone is her mind. Start there.

Fuck her good and hard, your pleusure is the only thing that matters at that moment.

2 other things to note:

  • Next baby, get off the scheduled Wednesday swx routine, have sex when and how it suites YOU.

  • 10+ months maternity leave is great for the kiddo, but has probably meant you and wifey are spending a lot of time together. Get some alone time and up the dread.

[–]Fritz_Frauenraub6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds like you're doing the whole tiresome Nice Guy sex thing...the whole How To Make Love To A Woman thing. "Kissing her body" to stimulate her and hoping she'll respond. So she feels like she has to act all into it. Plus a baby and maybe breastfeeding.

Try just rolling her over and humping her from behind like she was a realdoll. Don't pay any attention to her response-just use her body to get off.

[–]ReturnOfTheSwing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Try just rolling her over and humping her from behind like she was a realdoll. Don't pay any attention to her response-just use her body to get off.

This actually works way better for "getting her in the mood", assuming you haven't been pure beta all day, in which case you'd probably get an immediate hard no. But, what makes it work, is that you don't care if you are getting her in the mood. Kind of a paradox in a way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

this sub is fucking hilarious lol.

[–]2gunsgetsome6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ignoring the fact that you don't lift (really the barrier to entry if you want to be taken seriously around here), here are some thoughts:

Your wife is getting all the oxytocin she needs from cuddly interactions with your kid. Your lovey-dovey sensuality is like trying to cram-hole more gas in the tank after the pump hit the auto shut-off.

Literally the last thing (nature says) she needs or wants right now is another child, so you MUST create polarity between the feelz she gets from your kid and the feelz she gets from you. What she needs from you is dopamine from anxiously anticipating what you might do to her next.

So yes, you need to game the shit out of her all day without the expectation of sex (or even another touch/flirty comment in that moment). Her hindbrain doesn't think about the fact that whatever situation you might be in while flirting is logistically difficult to escalate to completion. She needs to wonder "is this the time we might go all the way?"

The baby routine is boring as shit. Don't be a dancing monkey entertainment machine, but you need to be the escape from boring.

Back to your lovemaking- again you need to create polarity. The baby gropes and gently sucks on her literally all day. The baby can't pick her up, or push her against a wall, or any of the other moves in the D section of SGM.

I'm also unsure whether I should cuddle/caress my wife in bed, without an expectation of full sex (this is what my wife seems to want)

Not likely. It's probably you projecting because the baby is getting attention for doing those things, ergo if you do those things you should get attention too. Don't make her your mommy.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

  1. Consider working from a Starbucks. Tell her you're busy as hell and taking control of a lot of shit at work (focused on your mission and not her) and you need to focus.
  2. Start lifting, no one cares about how good you are at rolling.
  3. Sub some of your hobby time with networking events or start attending a social fitness group that includes women (check breweries, there are a lot of free options). This has to be something productive for you that involves meeting women. Flirt and practice game.
    Your dread game sucks. What level are you on?

[–]Alphaphux5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's comfortable, need to up your dread game

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ignore what she says, watch what she does

[–]mountainbiker1780 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for posting this link. I didn't realize you had a blog. It's great writing and I have so much to learn.

[–]plein_old5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you like being a father? Maybe your wife is focusing her body on her baby child at this point? Maybe having a baby makes her less interested in sex for several months.

You could enjoy touching her in non sexual ways. If you're into that.

Some guys will FREAK OUT if they don't get sexual validation from a woman every day, and they will counsel you to rush out to a new woman if the one you have at home does not give you this validation. But maybe this isn't as big of an emergency as it might seem at first.

If you spend time away from your wife, either in a separate room at home, or your own activities away from the home, that might help your wife to value your time with her. If you are simply "together" constantly it can create a claustrophobic feeling.

Good luck sir.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

She still breast feeding or supplementing him with breast milk? Some of this maybe biology. Oxytocin is a mood killer.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The baby or OP?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Neither. The woman.

Oxytocin causes milk let down and increases when breast feeding or just holding a baby.

Oxytocin also kills the sex drive.

[–]FoxShitNasty832 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

What are your stats, bf, height, weight etc? Do you lift handsome?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

He probably only lifts handsome weights

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

God I love this place.

[–]470_2_700_nm4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

physically and mentally clam up

Take what you want with sex, and don’t take what you don’t want. Why continue if you aren’t not impressed with her reaction? Inside you are thinking “she SHOULD want this”.

Do body weight exercises,

Fail. Powerlifting mother fucker. 5x5 if you are new. Fuck body weight. I did that, wasted a year in comparison to where I could be if I powerlifted from the start.

Thoughts + advice appreciated.

Your wife is still coming off all the horemones from the kid.

Don’t pick and choose what to take from MRP. First and foremost, lift and lift heavy. Second, cultivate a mentality of abundance. Life is short - fuck these bitches who want to drip feed sex to influence the power dynamic.

[–]ReturnOfTheSwing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fail. Powerlifting mother fucker. 5x5 if you are new. Fuck body weight. I did that, wasted a year in comparison to where I could be if I powerlifted from the start.

Can confirm. I did bodyweight and sports for a while and although I lost fat, I did not gain significant enough muscle. It simply doesn't compare to heavy compound lifts.

[–]TurdDoctor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't engage in verbal intercourse, it's a losers game. Don't take what she says seriously, look at her actions. Get to work on yourself as others have stated.

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This led to a discussion with my wife doing the talking.

Yeah negotiate attraction. And then jump through her hoops and she will be soaking wet for you, just count on it. Dont forget to put the dishes in the dishwasher the right way.

Read this:

Game, tease, get muscles (bodyweight is not enough), rock solid frame, outcome independence. Do attractive things, stop doing unnatractive things. And stop negotiating sex/attraction. When/if she feels attracted to you she will want to bang you. If she doesnt, she´ll come up with excuses.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll be kissing her body, and see that her jaw is set, and she'll be glaring at the ceiling,

A hard smack on the ass might wake her up. Your mileage may vary.

[–]rollston10000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your past posts indicate that you hace worked on KINO/Game and hobby. Which is great.

But this one shows that you are her beta bucks. She chose you as a sperm donor and a resource provider, because she was not able to make somebody else to commit. This is why her past is important, and this is why sex is not important for her. This is why she may feel guilty rejecting you (because you are a ‘good/handsome’ man), and even being at your best form, you are still not good enough to give her tingles.

What is your SMV compared to her? Are you attractive enough to get multiple IOI from random women? Are you leading here? May she be an alpha widow?

I am afraid, you should focus more on improving your alpha traits instead of on getting more sex. Sex wll be just a side effect.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's it! BJJ shows up all over this place in have to see what it's all about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We've had disagreements in the last year over baby-related issues, like how to get our son to sleep though nights (which he now does). I held frame, we compromised - but it was emotionally painful.

I reckon my dread levels are low - I work from home, and my two sports mainly done by men.

These items alone could account for 90% of your problem. Any man that admits his dread level is low, it is probably lower than he thinks.

Quit spending your time puking and get back to work.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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