Incredibly kind wife... Missing a "meaningful" conversation with her.

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February 6, 2018

Alright. Amongst the maelstrom of acronyms, sidebar theories, broken lives testimonials, the "uneasiness" of my marriage feels like literally nothing. And maybe it is nothing.

I started dating this girl when I was 17. She was the same age. Good family, good parents. We were wrecks appearance-wise. Myself more than her, too thin and zits all over the face.

I too came from a nicely structured family. My mom was basically "Queen Gorgo" on us three brothers, and many of the RP tenets here were, in a way or another, taught us by her when we were still adolescents. She was damn smart, elevated IQ, but my father was a real "Leonidas" at home too, and he always made himself respected, improving himself and giving no breaches for "Chads". (pardon for my pop culture poor comparisons for easy understanding of our subjective view on them).

Well, I didn't expect anything from it actually. Never had oneitis for my girlfriend, neither did her. She seemed "ethical", treated their parents well, and was generally a good person. No red flags.

Post high-school I bettered myself considerably, having nailed a $ 80,000-year government job by myself at 19. We were staying together, staying together, and when we were 22, we committed. Safe to say our "families" committed too, because gosh, they are close. Father-in-law and mother-in-law are like parents, to both of us.

I, myself, wasn't so eager to marry, but having witnessed so many failed relationships, so many "witches", I feared never being able to meet someone that "decent" again, with no past traumas, with a clean sheet. I knew she wanted to, but she never forced me or even directly hinted at it. I proposed her by myself. Full responsibility.

Bear in mind. None of us had previous bfs/gfs, and I believe we bonded well because of that.

I get absolutely - almost zero - shit tests from her. She takes care of her appearance and health. She is hot. Sex is plenty and spontaneous. Our circle of friends is minimal, and I have absolutely no reason to believe she ever cheated or even considered the deed.

To the "problem": we are 29 now. I improved myself considerably. Learned 4 languages to fluency from scratch, masters degree, and might nail an even higher paying international government job which will require extensive traveling in the next year or so.

While at that, I am constantly bringing new things to the marriage. Travelling, never being boring, taking her to dancing classes, to swimming, gym... Being an "alpha" to her in my "beta" relationship. I also do my best to make her have a real job and life responsibilities. We also share house chores, and she knows I am adamant about not wanting to have an idle "housewife" at home.

Recently I saw this passage posted here by an older member:

But men don't choose women based on anything else regarding the typical things that define a man's status such as career and > intelligence.

We don't give two shits if a woman has a Phd and has a 6-digit-salary. If she's hot, she's hot. Having a PhD or making 6-digits does not make a woman more attractive, unlike men. She can be a fucking janitor for all I care, and if she's hot, I'd still fuck her.

Well... I have a fair build, I earn fairly well, I have nice social skills. I get hit a lot not only at my job but by other government contacts which I will probably never meet again. I can honestly tell you I give a rat's ass about bimbos, and I don't feel attraction at all by a "hot" woman who is not also witty and intellectual. In these seven years, I cheated once, with a very smart overseas job contact, with probably a whole other plethora of flaws, and I plan on never doing that again. I felt weak and irresponsible, and it made me lose footing with my real self (don't know how to better describe the feeling).

Thing is, I am increasingly meeting new people, including women of course, who I can actually have a meaningful, "intellectual" conversation with. This is, in turn, making me increasingly frustrated with my wife, as much as I love her, and care for her, and try to teach her new things. It feels as if I can't learn a single thing from her. (not that I should, I keep telling myself that). And she tries. I can see in her eyes she does. It doesn't "seem" to be her fault at all. She doesn't have any cognitive problems... It is more like... I bring her with me to a group of friends from the job. She stays mute.

I feel like a jerk for thinking this way, but I am increasingly feeling like I don't have a "partner" at all, but that I married a "daughter", who I can't have a single larger-than-life conversation with. We also want kids, but I would like her to have an active role in raising them too.

So, I don't know if I should "man-up", recognizing there aren't really many "decent" women around to have an LTR with, and simply ignore this. (I know, AWALT, nothing is guaranteed, I mean "decent" as no traumas, no past "comparisons", daddy issues, etc.) Nobody made me make a vow anyways...

Or if I should just let her go, while she is in her "prime" - physically she is - and keep looking for someone with these traits. Thing is, my current "feel" of the market is not very good, and there are always problems which surface with time with anyone anyways. So, maybe, why bother.

Any veterans with similar experiences? Am I someone really blissful, and ignorant about the harsh realities of relationships who should just shut the fuck up?

PS: I honestly don't put the responsibility for my "happiness" over her at all. If I found out she cheated on me, repeatedly even, of course, I would be upset, but I wouldn't be "broken" by it. I myself erred once, and a divorce wouldn't break me mentally.

Post Information
Title Incredibly kind wife... Missing a "meaningful" conversation with her.
Author UnwittingJerk
Upvotes 10
Comments 47
Date 06 February 2018 08:09 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
alphabetaAWALTcheatinglong term relationshipshit testclose

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret46 points47 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you're going to use your woman as your best friend, don't be surprised when she's shitty at it. Lots of guys would prefer if their woman were a little dull, but sweet and able to take direction.

you've been given a gift, don't ruin it because your fish can't ride a bicycle

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This was a good analogy. Thanks for the input.

[–]RealTalkSortOf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It was a great analogy. Don’t ever forget what he said. It bears repeating.

[–]hystericalbonding16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Any veterans with similar experiences?


Most of my exes were high-IQ, very high-performing individuals who could carry on detailed conversations. There's always someone smarter, prettier, etc. My wife is smarter than average, and that works for me. She has more common sense and a far more stable personality than my exes, and I get along better with her than any other person I've met.

I know that there are probably many women out there with whom I would also be compatible, much like there are many men out there with whom she would be compatible - hotter, richer, stronger men who are better dancers than I am. She'd love it if I were more artistic, but I'm not.

People get into problems in monogamous relationships when they try to get all their needs met by their partners.

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Deep inside, I know that. We can never get "all of it". And men desire that which he cannot have, overlooking that which he has. I keep telling myself that.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

It might just be me, but this reads like a girl wrote it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I got a kind of fem vibe from it too.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, soft hands on that post. “One overseas dalliance and I’ve learned that lesson...”

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando31 points32 points  (17 children) | Copy

Ok, so your wife is hot and she fucks you on the regular.

So what exactly is the problem? That you can't have an intellectual conversation with her?

Get the fuck outta here. Some of us have actual problems.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey let's swap wives!! Err.. she has great conversation, what more do you need. 😊

[–]cm-man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy true! He’s wishing for memories of pussy past...

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am surprised this post didn't get more comments like this. It was actually the only thing I was expecting.

People seem to reach this forum just when they are in deep shit. I myself didn't know the meaning of "oneitis", googled up and ended up here.

Figured out I could actually avoid a "quandary" by seeking input from more experienced people.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I heard that Athol Kay's new book has a chapter on how to get your wife to initiate intellectual stimulation.

[–]RedPillPowerNine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That made me laugh out loud irl a my wife wanted to know what I'm reading.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

First off this is common. I’d venture to say 90% of people in relationships over 10 years feel this way.

You need more male friends. If you haven’t read “no more mr nice guy” then do it. I don’t think your a “nice guy” per se but you’re looking for her to fulfill you in a way she can’t. No woman can. And honestly you don’t want them to. Focus on yourself, your hobbies. Go out with your guy friends more often and get your “meaningful” shit filled that way. The worst move I ever made was cheating. I did it a few times thinking the grass is greener. It’s not. She knows you on a deeper level then these other chicks ever will, and while the chase is exciting, once you catch them you realize it wasn’t worth it.

[–]beta_no_mo4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are defined by your "intellect" (therefore your ego is too) and now you're trying to define an overall good marriage by it as well.

Do you think Tom Brady gives a shit if Giselle can't throw a spiral or read a defense?

Your entire marriage feels like a covert contract based in narcissism right now. Most guys clean the kitchen and then call her unappreciative if she doesn't immediately suck them dry. You're out there "ascending" and then saying she's not good enough for you because she isn't your equal. You have a thoroughbred and you're complaining because she "hasn't tried" to become a unicorn.

I hesitate to say that you're ungrateful because maybe you're worth all the value she's providing, but if we asked her, I'd be surprised if she thinks you're as great as you do.

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think Tom Brady gives a shit if Giselle can't throw a spiral or read a defense?

He is a sportsman, she is a damn good businesswoman who manages her life like clockwork. I would define that as a damn ideal relationship. Thing is, we never know how it is inside other people's bedrooms.

You're out there "ascending" and then saying she's not good enough for you because she isn't your equal.

That she is not my equal, that is for sure. That she is not "good enough", I never said that... I am not that arrogant. Sorry.

I am not saying that by having a higher intellect, I am superior. Many people at work commit this mistake, thinking that because they are geniuses, they will get promoted despite their lack of sympathy, humility and respect for others. She has qualities I certainly have not.

What I am asking is if there are "veterans" out there in the same situation who could have a nice LTR despite this background difference. I am asking if in the long run, this becomes a dreadful compatibility issue, or not... If positive, I would rather "free" her now than being the cliche who leaves her compassionate 40 for a 20.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Get your T levels checked.

By your own admission you have a hot wife who doesn’t shit test you, is a great partner and likes to fuck....

And your main issue is she doesn’t stimulate your mind enough on an intellectual level?

Get the fuck out of here and hand in your man card. That’s what your colleagues, friends, mentors etc are for.

Your ancestors would be ashamed.

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is actually a little less frivolous than that.

It is about warning your spouse to get acquainted with a certain language because, in eight months, you are going to be reallocated. You obviously try to help, but she makes no effort, and when you reach said place, you have to take care of her like a daughter, besides devoting yourself entirely to making your boss feel like he took a good decision in sending you there. Add some children to that and you basically have even fewer chances in ascending in your career.

It's about not setting up double dates with job acquaintances because you don't want your wife to be embarrassed.

It is about "dumbing down" your conversation every single time you talk to her.

Look. I love her. I support her and I respect her. I never let her feel embarrassed when I talk to her. I just don't want any of us to be resentful, but fulfilled, in the long run.

And I am actually open to hear experiences. From someone in said shoes in the past telling me this isn't a big deal, and it is far better than the other "side of the spectrum".

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously dude. Get to the point , or at least tell us where you are with lifting, sidebar, and dread.

A TL;DR would be nice

That was just a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

Go back and edit in a TL;DR and your lift and sidebar progress

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You are just masturbating about the grass that looks greener over the picket fence.

I can tell you from experience the intelligent go getter is a diametrically opposed bag of problems.

But your airy feely view that it will get worse over time, is, probably true too.

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can tell you from experience the intelligent go getter is a diametrically opposed bag of problems. But your airy feely view that it will get worse over time, is, probably true too.

Maybe it is something akin to a Kierkegaard conundrum: *“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. [...] Whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.” *

I am still trying to figure out in other women if their level of intellect is, invariably, diametrically opposed to their level of agreeableness [bitchyness] in the long run.

Thing is, the only mildly "agreeable" person with a high IQ whose intricacies of the relationship I would "mildly" know would be my mother. Views from a son, not exactly an objective one.

I would be truly grateful if you could share bits of your experiences with the "go-getter".

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is how i see it.

There is a world of 50% women, a small pool of which you know / meet in your life. A smaller pool of which you would like to spend you life with, a smaller pool of which would also like to spend their life with you.

Now, with above in mind, you make a decision based part on logic and part of "feel" (love etc). You then test for compatability based on dating. You pick one. She's the winner (decision 1).

Many overthinkers, (you and me alike) after time go back and reassess the weighting of the positives and negatives of the "winner". You are increasing the weighting of "intelligence", whereas I am increasing the weighting of "not ridiculously busy and high achieving"

Finally, after this reweighing, we compare against the outside market again ( a fairly large unknown in most cases). Then decision 2 (stay / go).

I would be truly grateful if you could share bits of your experiences with the "go-getter".

Feel free to read my history but it can be most accurately described as she has a work centred "mission", that impacts my own "mission". For me, my mission has a strong physical activity component (sports etc). Work is not the centre of my world although i am successful. It is very difficult for me to carve out "sports" time when her mission has ever expanding time requirements. There would be three days per week she is up at 6am working on a presentation, home at 6pm for dinner, but then works at home till 11pm. This leaves me unable to do what i need to do, as her work is a more fixed requirement / deadlines etc than my sports / recreation (she earns more than me btw). On top of that, her priorities of her work over family (time with kids) annoys me, perhaps a covert contract based on our life before kids. I expected while we had young kids we would both ease of the gas until they were at school, and enjoy that phase.

Summary --> She is never around, when she is she is often exhausted. She is miles behind doing her tasks. She misses things because she is so overwhelmed with things (creating disorganised approach) She is also narcissistic (should be obvious from above). Its taken me months, with the help of MRP, to value my time and adjust to enjoy myself in life with this constraint. I do more with friends, have better times with my boys, things are good now.

FWIW - its not all bad, we actually have an ok relationship. But it is largely due to my willingness to accomodate the above issues.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Go get some man friends and do fun stuff with them. Have your meaningful conversations over darts and beer.

[–]FlyingSexistPig1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have different roles, different skills.

Don't expect her to be your equal. She never will be. No woman will be. A woman who is your equal is always looking for something better. All Women Are Like This. AWALT.

Her job is to provide a great and welcoming home for you. Let her do this job. You want to talk about work? Do so with your work buddies, not with her. When she asks how your day was, you say, "fine". Develop non-work interests with her. Go on walks. Travel. Show her the world.

You aren't going to find better because if better existed, it would already be tied down, married to someone else. You're sitting there in your near-perfect lawn saying, "Gee, I wonder if there's greener grass somewhere else in the world."

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're sitting there in your near-perfect lawn saying, "Gee, I wonder if there's greener grass somewhere else in the world."

Deep down, I believe that is what I think too.

Her job is to provide a great and welcoming home for you. Let her do this job. You want to talk about work? Do so with your work buddies, not with her.

My father met my mom at the job. She was a lawyer in her early 30s, wanted kids, and left her office to work with him, as an assistant. They never ran out of subjects to talk about... It just seemed to us they were in the same "team", I don't know.

[–]FlyingSexistPig1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The culture that created your mom and dad has passed.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Jesus fucking christ - this reads like something an autistic would post over in r/iamverysmart.

I got through 2 paragraphs and called it. I figure you're autistic, on the aspie spectrum, and assumed you're fucked for life.

-- After reading the comments, I figure OP just needs a good pegging.

[–]ich_bin_doch_geil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. That will probably solve it honestly.

[–]UnwittingJerk[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

I got through 2 paragraphs and called it. I figure you're autistic, on the aspie spectrum, and assumed you're fucked for life.

You must be an outstanding psychologist then. What is your hourly fee?

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Actually, W&S would be pretty reasonable if paid hourly. He crams a lot into very few words. Can you do the same?

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I intentionally do not engage in any "intelligent" "intellectual" discussions with my girls.

So that all that's left to discuss is dumb animalistic hormonal shit, it gets us quicker to raw passionate fucking.

I like it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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