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Lost my frame/normal state. My wife completely abused it.

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December 20, 2017
9 upvotes

Hey.

Have written some OYS and I'm clearly new to MRP but I'll give you a short intro about me.

Have been working on myself for real for about 1 month now. Reading the sidebar, lifting and working on my frame cause that's my weakest part.

Anyways, we are on a trip w the whole family (including my parents, my brothers family and my sisters) to a sun resort.

Two incidences happened and last one made me write this message because of anger.

  1. First night I was feeding the kid and wife was walking around the apartment cleaning and unpacking the stuff. As she was going in an out of rooms the kid got really sad and started crying like crazy when mom left the room. (cause it's almost bed time and baby is tired). She couldn't really stop crying so I took her up and it didn't help much, put her back and told the wife to come back. She did, lifted her up and got her shirt dirty cause the kid had some food on the bib (?).

Wife got fucking crazy as her shirt got dirty, raising her voice, basically screaming at me plus starting hitting my shoulder to "go fucking away". I was stunned by this behavior so I just left the room, went up to the rooftop bar, had a few drinks and went down again after she messages and called me so I can watch the kid while she eats and washes her face. Now in retrospect I don't think it was the best solution. Next morning like nothing happened.

  1. Dad organized a buffet for the whole family gang one evening. Everyone arrived, sitting down and I got up to get food for the kid. Slightly stressed because wife already succeeded to be a douche to my brother by taking back my kids toy from his son with a shitty attitude. I am picking stuff and she comes to me and says 'go get that meat', while I reply 'can you fucking relax, I will in a silent ish tone '

She becomes bat shit crazy and basically throws a tantrum in front of everyone. Telling me to drive her and the kid home and that I'm not allowed to scream or swear at her. (She raises her voice and says Fuck you to me too much). I instantly knows it's gonna be a shit evening.

I pussy out and tell her I'm sorry for saying 'fucking relax' and I don't know why I did that.

She tells me to finish feeding the kid and to drive her home, I say its not gonna happen and that she can calm down and relax. It doesn't get much better, telling me to give her the credit card while she leaves the restaurant with the kid. You can imagine the faces of my family. In this moment I didn't care anymore, fucking bitch.

My mom told me to go talk some sense in her, I basically went to her and apologized again like a fucking pussy. Almost begged her to come back to finish the meal.

She came back and I acted like nothing happened while she was just watching her phone and ignoring anyones questions.

My mom told me later in privacy she can't be this disrespectful and that she needs to chill the Fuck down. That I need to raise her to behave more properly and polite.

I would have dumped her instantly if it wasn't for that kid.

I know it's my fault cause I let this happen. I know it's my fault cause she clearly doesn't respect me since I'm not a man to respect. Similar situations have happened before and I'm always tip toeing around my family with her cause I don't wanna upset. Fuck. Writing this makes it so clear how deeply I'm in her frame and I'm mentally stuck because she always has the upper hand cause she is the mother of my kid.

That was my victim puke. It feels good to let it out. I hate myself for letting her go this far with the behavior.

TL:Dr: wife throws a tantrum in front of big family dinner

EDIT1:

Lots of comments and info to grasp. Thanks for everyone's contributions, reading all this indicates there's clearly some hard work ahead.

Wife is still pissed. I don't care, but she is only talking about divorce. I've been out with the kid by the pool while she has been home and crying and what not.

My family is in another hotel and I don't know if I should go be with them instead.

Anyways, I know I need to improve myself and I'm slowly getting there. These moments give me more fire.

Meeting a divorce lawyer to make sure she can't take my kid from the country without my approval.


Post Information
Title Lost my frame/normal state. My wife completely abused it.
Author RealButcher
Upvotes 9
Comments 102
Date 20 December 2017 09:22 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205044
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7l4j62/lost_my_framenormal_state_my_wife_completely/
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Comments

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret23 points24 points  (30 children) | Copy

You know what? Shit happens. You know what happened, what you did wrong. All that matters is that you recognize where you failed, and change your behavior in the future.

Look at the big scheme of things. You still have a journey to do, a mission to work on. Are you going to dwell on this speed bump or ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SOME REAL CHANGES!

Let it go, get to work, own your shit. That's all.

Edited for more detail:

Wife got fucking crazy as her shirt got dirty, raising her voice, basically screaming at me plus starting hitting my shoulder to "go fucking away".

You establish a boundary, then you walk away.

She becomes bat shit crazy and basically throws a tantrum in front of everyone.

Basically at this point you excuse yourself and your family, and leave with her and the child.

(She raises her voice and says Fuck you to me too much)

You do not engage. Don't respond, because that's what she wants. She wants the feelz, the validation, the dark side.

It doesn't get much better, telling me to give her the credit card while she leaves the restaurant with the kid.

"No."

I pussy out and tell her I'm sorry for saying 'fucking relax' and I don't know why I did that.

I can see how you were in the heat of the moment, but at this point sorry is not the best thing, because that just feeds her anger hamster.

She came back and I acted like nothing happened while she was just watching her phone and ignoring anyones questions.

Probably should have left earlier.

I know it's my fault cause I let this happen. I know it's my fault cause she clearly doesn't respect me since I'm not a man to respect.

So you know what the problem is. Good. NOW IT'S TIME TO WORK ON SOLUTIONS!

Writing this makes it so clear how deeply I'm in her frame and I'm mentally stuck because she always has the upper hand cause she is the mother of my kid.

That's OK. You just graduated from dread 0. It's time to work on dread 1. Build your own frame and get out of your wife's frame.

Don't hate yourself. Dude, you are a man. You have the tools here to change yourself, and thereby change everything else. Let this anger go, and start getting shit done. Read, STFU, lift. You know the drill.

[–]RealButcher[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you.

[–]RealButcher[S] 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy

Yes this shit really happened and I hate it. I was fearing some kind of scene like this would happen and it did.

Now I have four days left on this trip with the whole family and it's fucking awkward.

On top of this she is telling me to go away and divorce. Just like the other 10 times.

I don't know if waking up tmrw and pretend like nothing happened is the best solution. I want to punish her somehow but it probably won't do any good. Fucking speed bump.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

There was a Jack10 comment about when you feel anger like this, instead reflect on what you have done to get this point, and then ponder what sort of actions you can take to fix this situation.

In your situation, from a practical "I have 4 days left on this vacation and it will probably suck" perspective, probably the important thing is to do a combination of the following:

Own Your Shit, with regards to the vacation. This means dressing kids, planning meals, etc etc. Just own it. For the next 4 days, you own your shit and are the captain. Act like it. Don't act like choreplay, but rather do it from the frame of "I am a fun guy, I'm the captain, and I'm going to have a good time and own my shit".

Second point - release the anger and need to punish. YOUR GREATEST ENEMY IS YOUR EGO. Let it go. Your anger will work against you unless you accept the fact that it is your fault, and you are going to work on it. Every time you get angry, think OAK, think CAPTAIN, think that stupid Frozen song. Do what you have to. Go for a walk if you must. And DO NOT BE BUTTHURT.

Finally, set a firm boundary. Behavior like what she had is not tolerable, so say it's not tolerable, and STFU and do not engage. Move on to the next thing. Do not fight. Do not argue with her hamster. Do not try to use logic. Do not be autistic.

And try to have a good time. Don't let these mistakes change the fact that you are on vacation. Have a good time.

Then come back next week and post in the OYS thread.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Running through Jackten's post history is one of the best things you can do.

But fuck he was a verbose motherfucker.

Takes time and introspection, but like all things, if it was easy every chucklefuck would do it.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah he was. Too bad you can't summon him like Beetlejuice...

u/jacktenofhearts... u/jacktenofhearts... u/JACKTENOFHEARTS!!!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Worth a shot.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Aaaaand now the song is playing in my head.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know guys - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlGxcekfsho - it's not that catchy, right? It's not like the part at 36 seconds in sticks in your head or anything.

[–]creating_my_life4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want to punish her somehow

punishment comes from a place of anger. You need to be in a place of strength, indifference, and confidence. This is what's meant by "let go of the ego".

Now I have four days left on this trip with the whole family and it's fucking awkward.

You have an awesome opportunity to NOT BE A PUSSY. She'll test your boundaries again. Disengage, STFU, say "No." (note: not "No, $valid_reason", just fucking "No.").

Don't lose your cool. Have fun. Don't engage or fuel the drama she creates.

[–]BostonBrakeJob1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

The catch is, you can't punish her until she respects you. And she won't do that until you follow the Rx and get to work on yourself.

Also, be prepared for more shitty behavior from her as you progress. She sounds fucking crazy, so I'd almost guarantee she's gonna fight you tooth and nail the entire time. Don't dwell on that, just know it's coming so you aren't taken off guard.

[–]Marcus_Aurtrillius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The catch is, you can't punish her until she respects you.

I was just about to say this. My mom is a small woman. She tried to give me a whooping when I was 11. Didn't feel a thing, but I pretended to be hurt and then went on about my day. No respect/fear of her belt.

Now my stepdad? Had he been home? I would've been scared shitless. He's 6'3", his belt got mad respect.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

away and divorce. Just like the other 10 times.

Why are you still in the garbage you stupid, stupid cunt.

I want to punish her

Others have pointed out, how do you think you're going to punish her? How do you punish someone that has disdain and apathy? Whatever you think you have for leverage, you don't.

[–]WhoWasBlowjob0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Ask yourself how you can punish her that would actually make her regret her actions. The best you can do is hurt her ego and that will just fuel her hate. You need to work on yourself and the best you can really do to punish her is to not give a shit about her until she decides to act like a lady.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is incorrect, and something that someone who is stuck in the anger phase might do.

The key is to kill your ego and not even let her get to you. Why waste time on revenge - living a awesome fun life is the best revenge.

Also, do I need to link to WS's seminal post? The one that he links to all the time and that you should know?

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

do I need to link to WS's seminal post?

Yo - which post is that? Don't think I've seen it before.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're killing me, man.

[–]WhoWasBlowjob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I may have worded it strangely but I was saying the same thing, he can't punish her and there's really no reason to even try in the first place. Attempting to punish would only fuel the fire and would achieve nothing. My advice at the end was to not care what she does and to just work on himself.

[–]johneyapocalypse2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Steel, you've given a very thorough and thoughtful reply. Tough love and a little camaraderie. Nice.

I saw the post and felt unqualified to answer, though my response also consisted of walking away.

With that said, regarding this:

Basically at this point you excuse yourself and your family, and leave with her and the child.

This guy's wife is such a disrespectful bitch she might (likely) dig her heels in if he does this in front of the entire group. How to handle?

She's going to be a challenge in terms of establishing boundaries and injecting some respect into the equation. I speculate that she'd lose it and cause an even larger scene if he attempts to do so both (1) in front of the rest of the family and (2) in a public place.

Based on his description she does not follow traditionally accepted social mores and is instead a fucking cunt, pardon my french.

Thoughts?

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's a lot going on, and I'm on mobile and have limited time (will edit this response with more detail later), but OP has to deal with the immediate short term problem of the vacation and not have it suck so bad, and then longer term he needs to do the work of MRP.

The dude has problems. His wife might be cluster B (unknown at this point), there is so much anger/depression on both sides... I just saw that he is meeting with a divorce lawyer to ensure that his kids don't leave the country - serious shit.

Honestly, we are also only seeing part of the story here. I would not be surprised if there were other OP fails that are very relevant.

But to briefly answer your question, my first impulse is to get through the vacation, which means that if she is making a scene, first of all, don't curse her out under your breath, second, either take her aside and calmly say here is what we are doing, you are out of line, I would like you to come back and act nicely or else we are leaving. If she continues to make a scene, then apologize to everyone and leave with kid. Wife can stay or go.

She might be a lost cause, which is fine. Still, he would need to set a boundary. Then a hour later, not let it affect him. State here is the next activity on our vacation, you can join in if you want, etc.

The first step is to get through the vacation.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amused Mastery would have worked and the entire family would have been against her.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The whole family is against her.

Similar things have happened before, and especially she becomes "bitchy" when my daughter is crying or really tired. She wants to leave fast, becomes moody and raises the voice.

My mom told me yesterday that even though everyone is nice to her, it doesn't mean they are blind goats that don't see how she is treating me.

To reply to your post, she wanted to leave as soon as I said that, which means she probably wouldn't mind.

Thing is I just wanted to have this dinner since my dad organized it and it's rare we are all together. It felt extra important since he was recently disgnosed w lung cancer.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Warning, wall of text coming. You might recognize it, as it's from your own post history.

So I married this chick from another country. She moved here and got a job and knows the language quite well in only 2 years. Also we have a kid now of one year.

She has been quite a pain in the ass lately because she is extremely unhappy if I go see my friends for a beer or a night out without her.

She says it's unfair because her best friends are in her other country and she doesn't have any really good friends here.

She says it's unfair that she stays alone with the baby...

She says what will I do when you're not home?

Lastly we have gotten in a fight about this and she threatens to move overseas with the kid

In cases before when I've gone out she always asked when I'm home. I say something around 23, and for some reason she is amazingly picky with this hour. She messages me 22.50 and ask if I'm on my way home.

When I've been like an hour "late" the big message comes up of how I don't care about her and just being with my friends and it's better if we divorce bla bla bla...

Married this intelligent chick and quite beautiful one. I would say HB 8 - "The good girl". in the beginning we were oh so in love and had a really good time. Then we moved in together and with both of us working full time jobs I felt the times were not so fun anymore.

She also really wanted a kid and since I'm approaching the old age I was getting anxious that I didnt want to be too old to have my first kid. During this time I was never truly happy. Instead of breaking it we got a kid.

But oh god how much time and energy it takes. Plenty of sleepless nights, first three months were hell. Of course argued with wife a lot during this times. Barely see my friends, barely. Wife + kid left for a month to her home country during summer so I was home alone.

Anyways I'm here because I have realized after lurking and reading aforementioned books that I cant change her no matter how much I try.

  1. Or she threatens to divorce and leave the kid to her home country where her parents are. (Fuck why did I marry somebody who was born in another country)

I dont know guys, this females behavior I'm living with is impossible to foresee. Especially now since she is working I cant guess in what mood she will be when she's back from work.

In the beginning of the week we had an interesting evening, I picked her up at work, she was tired and naggy. We were supposed to go to her driving class, but she didn't want to and thought it was useless so I cancelled it. A bit annoying because I had to argue with the guy to not give me a cancelation fee. Anyways, I come home and try not to be affected by her bad temper and she is complaining why I'm being douchy. I said whatever and she says I'm a fucking idiot. I reply yea whatever so are you. Then she asks me when will I ever be normal again and I just say I'm pretty normal and then she has another tantrum where in the end she says Okay lets divorce. I reply go fucking do it. Then she says she doesn't know how, and I reply, I don't care, you want to divorce so find it out. She takes the baby, goes to the computer and doesn't let me take the baby. Anyways her computer takes ages to start because of windows updates lol and in the end she just just goes and has dinner. Next morning like nothing happened. Retarded behavior.

Okay but those tantrums pisses me off because the mood in the apartment becomes shit and I feel locked in the apartment because she still needs help to take care of the baby.

Frame: Probably stagnant on this area. I've been reading Gorilla Mindset and its very deep so I feel like I need lots of time to go through it properly. I'm already using some of his skills daily now especially self-talk. Probably will have to read it again to compeltely understand. My weakest point is that really love my daughter. But my wife always has an upper hand because she is the mother and its so easy to slip into her frame once we are discussing about the daughter. Especially now when she is sick, she just says out "go get that" or "do that" with a bitchy tone, and what can I do? It has to be done. Just fucking hate it. Maybe its my ego. Dunno.

All right, let's review. You married a chick from another country. You have a one year old. Stuff isn't fun now for both of you, because there is less sleep, and you and her can't go out and do fun stuff because hey, there's a kid. Plus your wife doesn't speak the language natively, she had to learn. And she's got no friends. She stays at home alone with the baby (although you mention you both work - I assume she stopped working due to kid). The key thing here is, she has no fun. And why would it be fun - you both are fighting each other, have anger issues, and she's probably depressed, let alone your own mental state.

On top of that, the both of you are fighting on what's supposed to be a fun time on this vacation. For some reason, I don't think it's all on her here. Yes, what she has done qualifies as absolutely unacceptable. But yeah, it's not just on her here. Your behavior also has some issues.

If you're checked out, well, there's not much that we can do, other than suggest that you exercise more (to work on your own anger) and protect yourself and your kid (and assuredly, you should probably see if she can actually leave the country with your kid if that is a real threat). Just reading all of this though makes me think that you haven't made a choice. You're just waffling along, letting things deteriorate. Posting because you lost frame for a moment. You haven't really sat down and asked yourself WHAT DO I WANT? And assuredly, only you can answer that, because you have multiple contradicting statements here.

So take some time and ask yourself, WHAT DO I WANT? Do you want to be married? Do you want to be single with a kid? Well, you know what? Your action plan is the same. You get up, you bust your ass, you lead your sparring partner, you work hard, you protect yourself (getting the consultation is a good idea), you have fun (which includes her having fun, not just you going out with the boys), and you own your shit. That's all.

One addendum - I'm not a shrink, and if she has some sort of personality disorder, I would expect that things change due to that. Adjust accordingly.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your reply.

  1. I was stressed out cause she took a toy from my brothers kid.

  2. I told her to fucking relax in front of my sister and brothers wife (which she doesn't like). She says I should have seen their faces.

I didn't scream it out, I said it in a normal voice

  1. Then the shit storm above.

  2. I want to be married with a kid. I don't wanna give up on this marriage unless it's really toxic and my daughter suffers.

  3. Therefore I'm continuing on working on myself and OYS.

Today was basically a normal day and the relationship is back to normal state.

I said I'm going to a park and she can join if she wants. She did and we had a good time. Later in the evening we went to my brothers place and had dinner there. Initially she said she won't go, then I said I'll go alone and shortly she changed her mind.

So basically I think this scene is over and she doesn't talk about it anymore.

Anyways, I'm gonna keep working on myself. Make sure we both can have fun. I can make my daughter fall asleep by myself at night which is a big win, which means she can go to after work with her colleagues.

But I'm still gonna consult with my lawyer just to see where I stand in case the shit hits the fan.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah OP needs to figure out what got him to this spot in his life. Where this woman feels she can act this way towards him.

Even though there’s a lot of OYS to do, this may end up being a next. But, do like u/steelsharpensteel implies and get your shit together before making any decisions.

OP can make a decision when the stay plan becomes the same as the go plan.... nowhere near that now.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

woman feels she can act this way towards him

i have a hard time providing meaningful advice because i've only interacted with woman like this or in this state a few times; and my dick was never involved.

one of my step brothers brought such a woman to a family party at my dad's house once. she started mouthing off and berating my step brother like OPs wife. my dad told her to shut up or leave the house. she kept on and he threatened to escort her outside. they both left; and was better behaved. they divorced years later after she cucked him (literally)

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The ending was very predictable

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Haha 😂, my dad’s exact words.

Stepbrother is pathologically incapable of STFU

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I saw it coming from a mile away lol

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret13 points14 points  (17 children) | Copy

  1. Unconscious incompetence
  2. Conscious incompetence <- You are here.
  3. Conscious competence
  4. Unconscious competence

Well, there isn't much else I'd tell you, you realize where you fucked up, you just need to start not fucking up. Sometimes it takes a while.

How's your lifting?

[–]RealButcher[S] 1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy

It's going. Working out 3x a week. Had to stop squatting because of my awful form.

So I've started stretching 25 min x 2 per day to improve that.

It's only been 4 weeks of lifting so I have a long way to go.

[–]BigAjax2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stretching is important with squats because most guys have fucked up muscle imbalances and shitty hips, which then leads to back and knee problems with squats when you load on too much weight. Stretching helps you get to a point where you're able to use proper ATG form, starting with a fucking empty bar if you have to. So, fine, stretch, but scale it back to what's actually needed to get you ready to put the bar on your shoulders. Don't use the stretching as a way to avoid the real work (i.e., squats). Kill your fucking ego and recognize you are starting from ground zero as a man. That fucking naked barbell is a good reminder of that.

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's a lot of stretching, be careful.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

https://stronglifts.com/squat

Read it. Then read all the pages. Practice. And drop the weight until you are confident you can lift the weight slowly and correctly. NOR that you can simply lift it, but that you can focus on your form each rep and it feels good.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If your form sucks, how do you expect it to get better unless you practice? Don't stop squatting, reduce the weight. StrongLifts uses the empty bar as a starting point. I've been there. So have most of these guys. Just do the empty bar until you get your form down.

Stretching is good, but do that after you lift because stretching weakens the muscle.

[–]Marcus_Aurtrillius0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

That's wayyy too much stretching.

If you suck at something, keep doing it until you get better at it. You're just making excuses right now.

Either you're lifting too heavy, in which case form breaks down, you need to lift lighter. If your form really does suck, even on bodyweight or bar squats, the answer is obviously the same.

How are your other lifts?

[–]SgtSilverBack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah, if you suck at something, you quit. OP sucked at being a man and quit to be a woman. See how well it's working?

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

I can't perform a squat with my own bodyweight.

If you check my post history you will witness my poor form in video.

Gonna include Toddler Squat into my stretching regime.

5x5 reps: BP; 55kgs, OHP; 32,5 kgs DL : 70 BR : 50 for now.

[–]Marcus_Aurtrillius1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Your form isn't THAT bad on the 2nd video.

I'm no trainer but I've read about this shit ad nauseam. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you have not. Start with this article. It's long as fuck but it's in depth, and best of all free.

Also, it's hard to tell from the profile shot in the video, but I think your feet are too close together. Widen your stance and point your toes outward, like a 45 degree angle or so. Maybe not that wide. Just whatever feels comfortable. I had similar issues and this fixed it for me.

And the 3 main things to remember, from the GSLP book: 1) Chest up 2) Ass back 3) Knees out

Try all this with body weight and see how it goes. And for goodness sake, either lift barefoot or with flat shoes like Chuck Taylor's (super cheap online) and get rid of that pad on the barbell. Feel the iron on your back.

Hope it helps.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

First lets ask do you even squat? You clearly dont. That form in the second video is even worse than the first video. Low bar, below parallel squats.

Going even further with that form. Your feet don't have to be at the same angle and you don't have to push from your heels. Your heels should be just outside your shoulders, or inside depending on the way you feel. The bar should be laying across the top of your upper back, not on top of your shoulders. My grip is very wide on the bar and I don't pull it down into me, just let the weight find its comfortable spot. My hands are only there to stabilize if I jack up the movement.

You also don't have to stand up straight. I am probably pivoted forward on my hips by about twenty degrees so I can get a full movement and really stabilize my core. As the weight gets heavier I might only pivot 10%, otherwise you end up like an accordion. When I start my movement down I start with my hips moving slightly backwards and down, all the way, literally all the way until my legs stop. Then focusing on my glutes I try to fuck the weight back up. The squat in the end is a glute movement, not a quad movement. .as for /u/RealButcher

https://i.imgur.com/V7KNY8b.png

  • The bar is too high on your back.
  • Your spine is curved as in you are pulling your head back and causing your spine to not be neutral.
  • Your head is up, you will get neck injuries like that.
  • You are even squatting parallel much less lower than parallel.
  • Squatting in grandpa tennis shoes is not recommend, go with lifting shoes or a cheap pair of chuck taylors.
  • You look exactly what I would expect a beginner squat form to look like.

Just from your videos, if you keep up that form you will suffer from

  • Knee Pain
  • Ankle Pain
  • Neck Pain
  • Lower Back Pain
  • Upper Chest Pain
  • Shoulder Pain
  • All the pains

So get in the gym, lighten the load, and see what feels comfortable.

[–]Marcus_Aurtrillius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I squat. Most of the time it's to take a shit, but every once in a while there's a bar on my back.

I was watching on my phone. The 2nd video barely loaded for me, so I only saw one rep and used the scroll bar to see stills of the rest. The first video there was a rep or two where OP damn near fell over. But I'll take your word that it's worse. I'm not watching that abortion video of a squat again.

Either way, we gave similar advice. It's his form mainly. And those fucking shoes. And that padded bar probably has something to do with bar position.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Thanks for your reply.

I quit squatting because I felt I'm tilting forward at 45 kgs plus my right knee began to hurt.

So I'm basically gonna lower the weight to only bar, stretch and get myself a good PT to teach me how to squat.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I don't recommend a personal trainer for squats. Go here https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/gym-filter and check for a power lifting gym somewhere near you. Often times the guys will help for free, or charge a small fee. The local trainers at LA Fitness are trash.

[–]Marcus_Aurtrillius1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

OP lives in Scandinavia. They got L.A. Fitness out there? 24 Hour Fitness?

If so I'd be fuckin IMPRESSED. Those places are shit but if they made it international to places like Scandinavia they must be doing somethin right lol.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao, that would be pretty impressive.

[–]Mukato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you've got a LONG way to go brother, but you can get there.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

You are getting superb advice here OP. My 2 cents:

Your wife is a massive bitch, and you are incredibly weak framed. I would even go so far as to say that you should not even attempt to set any boundaries, except one, until you've become someone worth following boundaries...because in her current state she is going to blast right through them. The key to boundaries is to be able to punish if/when she breaks them. The one boundary that needs to be set is: "You will NOT hit me." Be incredibly bold and unmoving when you set this. You will not hit back, but you will physically prevent her from hitting you if need be. And the first whiff you get of threats of police...eject, you're marriage is dead. If there's one thing a man absolutely should not stand for it is this.

Focus on you. Read, lift, STFU. And when she flies into a bitching frenzy I want you to smile. Not at her, just to yourself. Because you've read TRM and you understand whats going on. That's it. Smile out of understanding and STFU. You dont have to respond to her. You dont have to even acknowledge she exists. When you feel like you are worth something, then come on back and ask and read up on boundaries.

[–]hystericalbonding1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Boundaries need consequences, but that doesn't necessarily mean punishment. Boundaries are to protect you, not to change others. The newbs are getting caught up in the idea that withdrawal of attention and other consequences have to be meaningful to the wife. They don't. The consequences only need to be effective at maintaining the boundary.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

What the newbs dont get is:

1) The consequence does not involve the feeling "Oh yeah? I'll get you!" Breaking a boundary does not provoke a feeling of revenge.

2) Withdrawal of attention is not just about giving her the option to change her behavior, it's also about the man finding other ways to bring value (via social fun, sexual fun, fitness fun, etc) into his life in place of a misbehaving woman. This way, rather than simply sitting back and hoping she changes, he slowly phases her out of his life in place of more valuable things. If she cares, she'll change. If she doesn't, he doesn't care, because he's getting value elsewhere.

Boundaries need consequences, but that doesn't necessarily mean punishment.

The consequences only need to be effective at maintaining the boundary.

I don't understand how the consequences can be effective at maintaining the boundary if the consequences of breaking it aren't negative? Sure you could make a boundary with no negative consequence...but then why even make the boundary?

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Examples are redirection, withdrawal from the interaction, containment, or mitigation of the offending behavior.

There are things that you chose not to allow in your life. Whether the other person is rewarded, punished, or neutral about it doesn't matter unless you're trying to modify their behavior or achieve something other than maintaining the boundary.

An extreme example is a crazy person threatening you on the street. We've all been there. How did you maintain an appropriate boundary that the behavior would not be tolerated? You found yourself no longer subjected to the behavior, but how? Did it require negative consequences for the crazy person?

I've had the misfortune of dealing with people like that in repeated interactions in a professional setting. It's possible to contain, redirect, and mitigate without negative consequences to them. The boundaries are maintained, and those people are still assholes who shit on everybody else. They'll never change.

There's a connection between this and the notion that DEER/JADE is fruitless, and Dale Carnegie's assertion that nobody wins an argument.

It's also possible to modify behavior without using punishment, but I don't plan to get into a debate with /u/Straius again about the definition of negative reinforcement. Similar to that last debate, we're mostly using different words to describe the same things, especially your bullet points, which I agree with.

Conflict management is a big topic. Conflict styles are sometimes stereotypical, like the stuff in NMMNG, but most people fluidly transition from style to style depending on context. The holy grail is supposed to be the person who habitually seeks out a win-win situation. There's no punishment involved. That's a great solution in LTR. I wish I could say that I always get there - I don't - but I'm getting better.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Still smarting about being wrong eh!?

j/k, i actually enjoyed that debate and I agree with your conclusion. Believe it or not, it did shift my thinking on that topic.

I can back everything you said here anecdotally. Often times the politics I use at work falls in the category of containment (via good relations/reputation with large teams vs. a problematic individual) + carrots (ie.. win-win scenarios) and it's served me well as I've had a good track record of converting conflict prone individuals to allies over time. Some personalities you can never win over because they are consumed with insecurity or are just bad faith actors.

It's a hard concept to communicate though, especially when talking about removal of time/attention because it can take place under both contexts and both are valid depending on the situation. But beware wrong tool for the job. That being said, I'm not particularly well read on conflict management itself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've had the misfortune of dealing with people like that in repeated interactions in a professional setting. It's possible to contain, redirect, and mitigate without negative consequences to them.

Your right there is a lot wrapped up in the discussion and I think this example gives good insight into what you mean. I can think of a few scenarios where I've been in this case as well so I know what you mean, but cannot place it in words as you did. My best attempt would be that not only does the complete package involve setting boundaries, but also includes how to define the boundary, how behaviors change when approaching it, how to navigate the waters around it, etc.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can't second this enough. Your physical space is the first boundary that must be protected at all times.

This not only about er respecting you. It is about you respecting yourself enough to not allow violence against your person.

This is the most fundamental basis of respect for both men and women. Those that allow that boundary to be crossed are mutually held in contempt by men and women both.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I pussy out and tell her I'm sorry for saying 'fucking relax' and I don't know why I did that.

You did it because the bitch needed to fucking relax. This sounds like a terrible situation. Why would you tolerate this behavior? Why would you DEER in front of your family instead of owning it. You had the perfect opportunity to gain allies and you wasted it.

Women really piss me off sometimes. So many of them become intolerable and unreasonable when they have young kids. So many of them treat the father of the children with amazing, breathtaking disrespect and cruelty. So many men are so beaten down they cannot even respond, much less effectively respond.

Sad.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He forgot to tell us she is from Eastern Europe or somewhere, where she cannot respect anything but strength or abundance.

He has fucked himself right into a hole.

[–]hystericalbonding4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy

Read the whole thread. NMMNG, WISNIFG, and the philosophy of stoicism are a start. Placating enables shitty behavior.

Establish boundary. If she crosses it, then withdraw attention. If she continues, then withdraw commitment.

She can't act like that toward you with the kid present. Demonstrate the behavior you want from her, leading by example. If she can't follow, then you need more time alone with the kid and less time with the three of you together. That may mean divorce.

[–]MRPsurf1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you for that J10 link... I’ve read it several times in the past, but also not been able to find it when I needed it, ie in the immediate aftermath of a clear shitty comfort test — I get a lot of these — that I recognized but failed because in the moment I couldn’t remember or think of any way to handle other than nuke it or go too beta. Post is saved now, will be referencing again and again.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's a good reminder. The meat is near the bottom of the thread. Things really fall into place when you stop worrying about power dynamics and passing tests.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

The dude cant establish a boundary without the wife respecting him first.

If my son tries to set a boundary for me, guess how much cred that gives him - It works in reverse though because my son respects my boundary setting authority.

He needs to switch the relationship from being child / Mommy, to Father / child first.

EDIT:

I just reread u/hystericalbonding s first linked post, the J10 response is an excellent summary of where to pitch your response to an unreasonable test. J10's key point IMHO is that neither caving or dominating over the test is the right approach, as she will despise either. Instead the stoic position of steadying the ship, listening to the demands, and then most likely discarding them (as unreasonable) is the go, for which you will gain respect. Seems remarkably similar to amused mastery to me, perhaps just on a grander scale.

In the case of the dramatic outburst, a boundary setting response (ie, on the spot) falls into the category of 'over dominating' which with OP's current level of respect is just going to piss her off / fans the flames. Sure, set the boundary later, but its not a response in the heat of the moment until you have the respect to back it up.

TL;DR - if you are not respected, setting a boundary in the heat of the moment is likely to be replied to with "fuck you" - making you look weaker.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

in the heat of the moment

There is no "heat of the moment" unless you allow yourself to get sucked into it.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

She becomes bat shit crazy and basically throws a tantrum in front of everyone.

Kinda think this qualifies.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

And that's why you're here.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well where I come from that's definitely the heat of the moment.

Seems kind of trivial compared to what I'm used to from you

[–]hystericalbonding1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seems kind of trivial compared to what I'm used to from you

This is an improvement in terms of ego and frame, but still tit for tat. Reread the entire linked thread, especially the stuff about phases 1-3. Keep practicing skills from WISNIFG. Incorporate the philosophy and practices of stoicism.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He has a lot of stages to get through before he'll be able to achieve detachment. We often talk about the anger stage as if it can be avoided, but I don't think anyone ever successfully does because it's a necessary component for growth.

Ultimately, the anger is a function of feeling pain. And the best anyone can really do is stamp it down in small actions that over time rid you of the baggage as you wire in new habits of both behavior and thought.

My intuition is that it would be more helpful for people to deal with their anger with that set of expectations, but still mulling it over.

[–]77mrpB2A2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Haven’t read your OYS but hopefully you have read up on Type 2 Captain with Cluster B passenger. Good luck to you sir.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can you link to this Cluster theory? Couldn't find it in the sidebar.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Your biggest problem is living for the kid and the wife.

Fear has you got paralyzed, and walking on eggshells, living and dying in her frame

You really think this is the way to live ?

Edit

Just curious, after re reading what you wrote, do you actually want to stick your dick into that again ?

[–]AustralianArm1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think he thinks its his only option...

Hence why he needs to keep improving and become the prize.

[–]RealButcher[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Since I'm married and have a daughter I am taking a lot of shit unfortunately.

She is not my only option. If I up my SMV I'm confident I can easily have other options / abundance. But I have slacked and im not in good shape.

Therefore my goal is to worl on myself, make my self the prize and see then. If nothing changes, I will next her.

The longer she lives in this country the more difficult she will have to move back to her country with the kid. So basically the longer we are together the more I can divorce rape her.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh. You didn’t mention she is from Eastern Europe. Did you ?

You guys always forget the important shit.

If you aren’t strong, she will only be able to act like a cunt.

My brother is married to a Russian ballerina. He has always been a mother fucker, and will not show mercy to her or anyone. He treats her like a surf most of the time. They get along well

[–]AustralianArm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That sounded like a nice DEER to me.

She is your ONLY option, right now.

She is not my only option. If I up my SMV I'm confident I can easily have other options / abundance. But I have slacked and im not in good shape.

You're not there yet. You're looking way too far past your next lift. At least you're honest when you say you've slacked.

Until she's not your only option, she is your only option. Get to fuckin' work.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's true I'm living for to kid right now.

I love her. But since MRP I've shifted much more attention to me.

I'm trying to improve fitness, work, SMV as m as po as lo as the kid is small and move in later to a more active social life.

I walking on much less egg shells than before. Nowadays I care less about her behavior and letting her take responsibility. It's just at this fucking dinner I was so stressed out that she would flip and It did. So stupid of me.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just FYI, that's not love, and you know it

on her part it's complete disrespect, on your part it's foolishness

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not allowed to scream or swear at her. (She raises her voice and says Fuck you to me too much)

She is in control, then

I know it's my fault cause she clearly doesn't respect me since I'm not a man to respect.

^ This is your answer.

Remember some people control situations by being so explosive / reactive. Maybe she's crazy but either way noone wants to rock her boat (of which she is the captain) because she has a hair trigger to explode.

One of my sons is like that. You know of course I ignore it. Cause I am in charge and he knows that. Replicate that situation with your wife. Becoming in charge takes a while, but the program is laid out for you. Even your mom is telling you to man up. Step back, do the work, watch it come around.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

shes not explosive or crazy, since she can turn it off or on so easily.

no, she has a cudgel, and ever problem looks like his squishy head.

Of course, I know parents who have kids misbehave in the store, they take them into the car, and sit there quietly until they know how to behave, or they leave them at home

[–]WhoWasBlowjob1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Fuck bro i thought i had it bad when my girl told me to fuck off in front of one coworker in the lunchroom when i said she drives me in fucking sane.

Dont have too much to add besides, dont show any emotion in your reactions like when you said to fucking relax, dont even tell her to relax, just withdraw attention a bit and keep building yourself up. You have no wiggle room to steer the dynamics at the moment by the sounds of it.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

girl told me to fuck off in front of one coworker in the lunchroom when i said she drives me in fucking sane.

My question is, knowing how the female social matrix works, why would you attack her reputation in public, right in front of her? And then get surprised when she lashes out at you for it?

[–]WhoWasBlowjob0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I said it quietly and the coworker was nowhere close to see it, she had pissed me off earlier in the day and was being a bit ignorant on her phone before i said that

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

regardless, your GAF is too damned high.

bit ignorant on her phone

hang up on her. I've done this, and ignored calls for the next hour. When I get home "we talk like adults, or we don't talk" and use broken record.

I don't get those ignorant phone calls anymore.

May be worth a try. Bitch management is an art form

[–]WhoWasBlowjob0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I was sitting beside her on the couch and asked her a question after she was done talming to her parents and she gave me the "1 minute" finger then when i asked her again she said hold on, and that's when I said that because i felt it was damn rude.

I'm getting better at managing her, she perceives me as higher SMV which helps which I kind of am but she has better status somewhat.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't need to hear the play by play. you gave a fuck, she did not. you got buttmad, and she followed your lead.

If you expect a woman to be polite, give her a reason. It's like I always say, you only have 3 tools, affection, attention, and commitment. They only have teeth with high SMV.

remove them as needed

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And weaponize them when required.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How To Build Boundaries During Your Transition

Start here, then continue reading the sidebar.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lots of good advice already on how to deal with your shitty wife.

However, the tone and language you use to talk about your son/daughter doesn’t exactly make you come across as father of the year.

You sound angry, bitter and resentful of “the kid” just as much as you do about your wife.

Remember, your wife is the only person not related to you by blood. Your children on the other hand....

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I didn't want to keep piling on but you have a pretty shitty wife and I can tell from your post that it's because you have a pretty shitty attitude. As w&s always says, women are assholes because you let them be assholes. Ok but you aren't quite there yet and you don't really have the training to handle it. So the situation is completely fucked up. What the fuck can you do?

Well you can just shut up. You didn't need to tell her relax, You didn't need to come back from the bar at her beck and call. You can buy the book No More Mister Nice Guy (NMMNG) and get to work on it. You begin to develop frame when you start to think of yourself first. For instance, if you don't want to be in the hotel with her, don't. Take your child and go do an activity for an hour or so. Get out of your head and into yours. That would be a good start on Dread 1.

Last things last. When she wants a divorce, get to planning. 99% of the time it's just banter and empty threats. Almost no young mothers are willing to ditch on a shitty marriage. Don't call her bluff, but I would recommend that you do not respond to it in any way. If push comes to shove, then simply tell her to do as she wants. Look, some people are going to be able to turn this around and it depends on how much you want that to happen. If you are just dipping your toes in this whole MRP thing or whatever it is. You better start talking to a divorce attorney now because things are going to get much much worse before they get better.

Anyway, enjoy the bad times because soon enough you will be living your own life.

[–]RealButcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I thought she would love me for who I am after we married and were gonna have a kid.

I thought letting her wishes and demands come true and not upset her would do me favors.

I let this shit go on for too long and now I'm trying to reverse it.

Even though how horrible this story sounds I still believe this marriage has potential and I am willing to do as much as I can to fix it. If not for me, but for my daughter at least.

I've read NMMNG, but I guess I need to reread it since I didn't do the exercises fully.

I've booked an appointment with a lawyer to see where I stand legally.

In the writing moment things are back to normal.

My big dream is to write a FR of 12 months of MRP where everything changed for the good.



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