Wife gave me a letter

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November 10, 2017

Background: I'm 42, wife 45. Married 11 yrs. 3 kids, only one left at home (11yr/old). EDIT: One kid each from previous marriages (aged 1 & 3 when we met), one together (conceived on honeymoon).

Sex dried up when we got married. Maybe once a month for first 8 years, then once every two months, this year twice so far, and the last time (August) was the worst sex I've ever had, which is what drove me to find mrp.

It took me a while but I fully except that this is my fault. I've been lifting, losing weight (10lbs so far 20 more to go? currently 5,11 & 196lbs). Over the last couple of years I've been building a life outside of the home. I play in a band that keeps me busy, builds my confidence, and gets me meeting new people. I'm working on cutting my alcohol down. This is my only vice and is glamorised where I live (something that I'm only just waking up to). I'm on my second read through the sidebar.

I've been working on the house, fixing what needs fixing and redecorating the place. There are still things that need doing, but I'm not willing to go into debt to do them, so I do it as and when I have the money.

A few years back I got sick for a year, to my surprise I got no sympathy, in fact she was totally cold. I know why now, but that sent me completely BP at the time. Fast forward to a year ago and I lost my job when the company I was working for went bust. I've been working hard on starting a business (tradesman), which is now doing okay, but still needs to grow. The last year has been financially tight. No holidays, and very little money for fun. However, she's been supportive of the new business.

So with all of the above, it's no wonder shes not happy, I'm not happy, and we're basically room mates.

SO: Last night she left me a letter saying that she feels that she's depressed and feeling ill (she bottles up emotion) because she can't talk to me anymore. She loves me, but doesn't like me at times. She thinks that I must be frustrated with the lack of sex (I've stopped mentioning this since finding MRP (august) and STFU). She wants a divorce but wants to separate on good terms.

I thought on it a while, then went downstairs gave her a hug and a kiss on the head, but said that I didn't want to talk about it right now, as it was a lot to take in. She said shes not saying that this is what we definitely have to do.

Now, I was expecting this at some point on my MRP journey (which I'm expecting to end in around 12 months), but not yet. It's taken me by surprise and I don't know what to do.

Part of me thinks it would be nice to just end it, but I've got an 11 yr/old to think of that have a great relationship with, and don't want to mess that up. My original plan was to work on myself and follow the dread levels with the view that i WILL be getting the sex I want at the end, with or without her.

A little background on her, which I add not to winge, but just give context: Her only hobby is watching TV which she does LOADS off. I've cut my screen time to very little over the last year. She eats a crap diet, does very little around the house. She is a great mother though.

I don't know if this was a massive comfort test brought on by my changes (I am treading lightly though), or something she really wants. She gave me a kiss (peck) before leaving for work this morning, which she hasn't done for months.

I don't know what my next move should be? Any guidance very welcome.

Post Information
Title Wife gave me a letter
Author changing_bobby
Upvotes 12
Comments 95
Date 10 November 2017 09:36 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205182
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7c04t9/wife_gave_me_a_letter/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
comfort testlift

[–]hystericalbonding16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's very close to speaking bluntly. That's a last resort for many women.

Do you add value to her life, other than the paycheck? Are you the oak? Or just a separate entity, sharing a space? You set the tone here.

The hamster is lost in the maze. Outline your vision, if you have one. If it's all just a covert contract for sex, then you've wasted your time here.

[–]mrpthrowa21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy

Looks like a massive comfort test.

She's seeing your progress, but not seeing where she fits in it. She thinks you're preparing to leave.

There are some good posts here about setting a frame where she has a chair to sit, and it's a question of guiding her to that chair.

Be awesome, and have a place for her to be awesome with you.

What to do?

Ignore the letter all together, and start inviting her along for fun stuff that you're already doing.

But don't let go off the gas of self improvement. Persist.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree that it is a comfort test. From the sound of the post, OP, you need to up your game and having fun.

Perhaps guide her to a nonTV activity to start.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I do, even if it's not with her.

I feel I've forgotten how to have fun WITH my family. On my own I'm full of fun. I feel like I need to be the enforcer & protector. I'd be really open to new ideas in this area.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

are you inviting her along for the fun of the ride?

But really, think about this.

11 years and you have gotten laid about 1.6 times a month with your wife. The person who is supposed to love you sexually.

so now she writes you a letter.

She can't even respect you enough to talk face to face?

you must really like not having sex with an attractive woman.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, I've invited her along. There's always an excuse, but also a desire that I don't cheat.

Your points are all valid, which is why I'm here.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

also a desire that I don't cheat.

hers or yours?

and why desire not to cheat, if thats your desire?

is it cheating to have another sexual partner if your current one is not actively trying to be available?

[–]SocialCupcake3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ahh yes, the "I dont want you sexually or want to even touch you, but dont you so much as even think about affection with another person.... bad dog" excuse from asexual spouses.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oters have said it: throw the letter away and never mention it again.

It was a shitty comfort test. Since she knows how to read and write buy her an adult coloring book. Let her do something else other than watch the TV.

Kids are never a great reason to stay, only a good one. If there is no cheating in the marriage chalk the last 11 years to being a wuss of a man. But do what you want to do.

Man up and keep moving forward.

[–]2ndalRed Beret6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're getting good advice elsewhere in the thread, but wanted to call this out:

I was expecting this at some point on my MRP journey (which I'm expecting to end in around 12 months)

If the work you're putting into this is truly about improving yourself, you should expect it to never end. This is a lifelong commitment.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, agreed.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know if this was a massive comfort test brought on by my changes (I am treading lightly though), or something she really wants. She gave me a kiss (peck) before leaving for work this morning, which she hasn't done for months.

The subtext is she knows sex is a major issue with the relationship and wants to know how it gets resolved. Her solution is divorce because she doesn't think she can satisfy you and she doesn't know what else to do. It's a comfort test.

But it's also where someone needs to take control of finding where this goes.

I know talking isn't a huge thing here but you've specifically identified and mentioned her lack of communication as a problem. If you're not planning on divorcing soon, I would assign her the task of working on that. Put out there matter of factly that you're not planning on divorcing her anytime soon but that you are not satisfied with your sex life and that married people communicate about sex and her disinterest in communicating about the topic makes you question the long term stability of the marriage. Make it clear that the reason the marriage will fail is because she refuses to even communicate about sex in a way that you can work with. Do not discuss it further and just let her process. Allow her solve the problem if she wants to. It's one thing for an ex-wife to say the marriage ended because you're a hound who wanted sex all the time. It's quite a different thing for her to process "hubby dumped me because I wouldn't even talk about sex with him".

You mention alcohol problems. You should also read about JADE (justify argue defend evade) which is very similar to DEER but developed in the AA community.

[–]bourbonhipster2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your current mindset is one of a man who is seeking to save his relationship out of fear. Fear of the ramifications to things you value and have become comfortable with. And in this current mindset everything you think you are doing for you, it seems you might possibly be doing these things either in some form of a covert contract that your wife's behaviour may change to those more favourably desired by you, or again out of fear of the discomfort your separation would lead you towards.

The only way you can truly better serve you is by coming to acceptance with those circumstances which may be uncomfortable and allow that course to run if that is indeed the direction your spouse wishes to go.

Otherwise she is merely using it as a weapon to control you and to suit her needs and her purpose.

You have to make the decision whether you continue to allow and tolerate that or not.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret10 points11 points  (64 children) | Copy

If it's important, its face to face important.

Throw out the letter, you shouldn't have read it

Considering she turned you into a eunuch for 11 years, youre remarkably willing to help her out.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy

She didn’t turn him into anything. He did that all on his own. She just played the role he dressed her up in. His fault.

Are you Stoney? What’s going on around here? We giving out real names now?

I’m Batman.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I’m Batman.

I always knew you were into boys.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also, your account is 1d old and you’re an EC? I’m in the upside down aren’t I...

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t get it. Batman likes boys now? What’s going on around here since I’ve been gone. I like boobs...this has been documented repeatedly. Boobs.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Lol, fair enough.

The point was, if someone didn't fuck you for a decade, why would you want to help them, at all?

[–]SailorAground0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This a concept I'm having trouble reconciling with. At one point we all saw value in our wives, and our wives saw value in us. I can accept that it's my fault that my wife and marriage is shit, but I have a hard time accepting that if it's all my fault, I can hardly place blame upon my wife for acting in a way that I conditioned her to act. I guess the question is: At what point do we stop blaming ourselves and start sharing blame with our wives?

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not about blame.

Your fault the dog got rabies, you still put him down

[–]bahamutmaster0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Because you care about them....

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's your own stupid fault then.

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (54 children) | Copy

I agree with other posters, it's a comfort test. Therefore, this would be failing the comfort test. What you're preaching for is Rambo.

It's understandable to look at this woman with contempt, and act in ways which you would with a person who disgusts you, but OP is not hard yet. Don't try to make him incongruent.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (53 children) | Copy

Rambo is applying everything without thought. It was coined by jacktenofhearts specifically for alpha as wolf. Discomfort is not rambo.

Walk me through the part where she deserves his comfort. U less I missed it, he's still celibate.

Reward good behaviour, don't reward bad behavior. This is plain and simple. Manipulation. Get back in your hole little man

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, this isn’t a comfort test. It’s a shitty comfort test. She’s effectively threatening divorce and throwing a mini tantrum to see what’s going on in his head. I don’t see any hint of affection being thrown his way in the process which if there was would make it a pure comfort test.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd wager a guess that if he really has been improving since August, then she's starting to see it and get concerned. On one hand he's rocking the boat and she sees a tough road ahead...filled with a certain amount of blind trust in his leadership which, if the past 11 years I'd any indication, he will let her down. On the other hand she sees a separation which, if she can get in before he shows that his improvement is worth anything, she can come out the end feeling vindicated instead of mistaken.

In short, it's all about her chance to feel like she made the right decision shrinkjng.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. She wants change but doesn't want to be at all vulnerable to communicate feelings so she avoids confrontation, writes a letter, then sort of dances around pulling the trigger because she can't communicate but she still wants changes as if she had, now she is getting close to burning it down because she'd rather not face her own part of the problem but will instead ultimately blame him.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy

Unfortunately, parenting is more complicated than reward good, don't reward bad. And she's acting like a kid who knows daddy's unhappy and doesn't know what to do and expects to be punished.

OP says his wife cannot communicate. Her letter says that she knows she cannot communicate. The letter is her attempt to communicate. If you shut that off she will not communicate. I agree completely about the don't talk about the divorce or sex. But I'd fog the fuck out of her need to improve communication.

Yeah, "STFU". But STFU is about him not puking his guts all over her.

So if he wants the divorce he should take it or let her take it. He could just let things continue the way they are. Or if his MAP means he's got time to burn (or he doesn't have a MAP) he could give her a path out of her stonewalling for her to work on in the interim. She's supposed to fix the relationship, but what if she doesn't know what to do? She needs to know what she needs to fix.

You have to lead kids to the solution. You can tell a kid to go to sleep all you want and get angry at them when they can't. But they don't know what to do. So you tell them to lay on the bed. Then you tell them to put the covers on. Then you tell them to close their eyes.

Does it matter?

It really all depends on what OP wants to achieve here. Seems like they're already trying the not talking/not fucking thing and it's not getting anywhere. Worst case they end up divorced.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

I don't disagree, if he wants to go that route. I have a hard time believing she doesn't know how to be a good wife. Fuck him on the regular, which stems from real attraction. The purplish advice on here sounds like that red curious post on teaching her to not puke when you touch her.

Shes a woman in her 40s, I can't believe she doesn't know how to adult. OP can easily direct her. Not fall for her stupid games, show (not tell, show) what he requires, and just be consistent.

At this point, the only advice I gave him was not to read the letters, and why. He never asked about anything else. And any further discussion has been this sadomasichist calling me purple for suggesting OP not buckle ever time she cries

And honestly, if it were a case of having to parent her (BTW, see he buried the lead. last husband used to beat her, now she's broken and doesn't like sex?) I would have told him just to cut ties to begin with. Seen plenty of captain saveaho in my life, never seen one end up on top

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

I'd just add the caveat that she doesn't know how to be a good wife for him. There's no good wifeing a permabutthurt husband who's been impossible to please for 11 years. Learned helplessness could be a big part of this. Yes, we say that it's the woman's job to fix the relationship. But it's his job to fix himself and we always say we can't tell wives how to fix their husbands. So who knows where they are on that spectrum.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Either way. I'm sure when he's worth a damn, someone will figure out how to keep his balls empty.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

AMALT stands.

basics are the same.

or do more words help?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Yeah, it probably would help. I have no idea what your comment means and I can't imagine OP does either.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

well. cheers then. Its all been spelled out by Rian elsewhere. no need to repeat.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Rian writes perfectly legibly and I agree with what he's written. Why the need to translate into chicken scratch if you weren't trying to advance the conversation?

[–]sadomasochrist-2 points-1 points  (37 children) | Copy

Well basically one of two things are true here

  • She wants a divorce
  • She wants comfort and is willing to risk burning the whole house down

Given that she isn't treating him with contempt, I'd say that she doesn't want a divorce. And so again, I agree with other posters. And so in that case, the only winning hand seems to be to play to that reality.

Is it manipulation, yes. But OP doesn't have the congruence to actually operate in the way you're advocating. Hence, my calling it Rambo.

I think your disgust is not congruent to the situation at hand.

You wouldn't let it get there, I understand that, but this guy has a long way to go and he doesn't have the mental point of origin to defend your actions.

He can however pass a comfort test, which I'd say he handled well, and just continue on.

So my view, is keep up the good work and then flip this on it's head tonight.

"So are we getting divorced or having sex tonight, I'm sooo confused?"

If she still won't put out, then he can dust her, but I don't think he's going to get anywhere playing that game. He just doesn't have the balls for it.

The truth for the OP is he needs to be okay with letter her leave. Until that is true, mentally, he's fucked.

I think he's in a good spot, but he has to see the light. Again, I think your coaching here is off the mark, given op and the situation.

Normally he'd have a lot of room to go to get where you want him, but that time has passed and she's putting him on the spot. Him calling her out on it by ignoring it passive aggressively would be DLV and she'd have no option but to double down by filing for a legal separation.

And OP doesn't have tools for that.

He does have tools to get himself mentally congruent, pass a comfort test, and ask his needs be met or for her to end it.

What is the get in the hole shit about?

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (34 children) | Copy

Well basically one of two things are true here She wants a divorce She wants comfort and is willing to risk burning the whole house down Given that She isn't treating him with contempt, I'd say that She doesn't want a divorce. And so again, I agree with other posters. And so in that case, the only winning hand seems to be to play to that reality.

Is it manipulation, yes. But OP doesn't have the congruence to actually operate in the way you're advocating. Hence, my calling it Rambo.

This is what I'm talking about. I don't care about individual scenarios, but an over arching frame and narrative. This is still ass deep in her frame. I don't care if OP isn't capable. He can't build an engine, doesn't mean I'm going to suggest throwing bicycle wheels onto the damned thing. Instead, don't read passive aggressive emails and respond to them.

I mean, fuck. If you're going to get manipulated, at least make someone use tears or harsh words. Phoning it in? Fuck that.

And for the record, This is Rambo

I don't buy into all this bitching me. Basically this sub is just "let's mock some guys after following what we say word for word".
Realize that this is not the stinging rebuttal you probably imagined it was in your mind, but just more condemnation of your utter stupidity, particularly the "word for word" part.
It is impossible to follow Red Pill "word for word." If you tried to combine all the Red Pill content (the subreddits, the prerequisite books like NMMNG/MMSLP/etc, and the the popular blogs like Rollo/Dalrock/etc), you would find countless paradoxes, if not literal contradictions. This is why your behavior is so contradictory to all the rest of us. Your wife wants to get you off... but you don't want to get "messy." You're not particularly in the mood to even have sex... then she initiates... then you get upset when she says your hands are cold and start pinning her down.
What the fuck? Seriously, the reason why none of your behavior makes no sense to us is because it's like we're watching someone park their car, open the door, lock the car, close the door, smash the window of their now-locked car, grab the garage door opener in their car, open the garage, walk in the garage, and grab their spare car keys so they could lock their car again. So like I said: what the fuck? Why the fuck did you do all that pointless shit? If you could have had either a locked car or an unlocked car without all that hassle! If you try and follow Red Pill "word for word," this is what happens.
I suspect a lot of those contradictions stem from the main TRP subreddit, which is essentially an echo chamber of saying WOW WOMEN ARE SUCH SHITTY WHORES AREN'T THEY!? Realize though, that that echo chamber is mostly generated by sexually frustrated single males in their early 20s, who likely come from an upper middle class socioeconomic background, and whose helicopter parents made them entitled in pretty much all ways. So perhaps that demographic's advice may not be worth heeding wholesale, if not "word for word," since it's probably that content that's causing you to think you need to have such an adversarial approach with your wife, and also causing you to reject all of our advice, even though we've practically all said in unison some version of, you're doing it wrong, dude.
Fuck that.
OK. Just so you know, this comment was not intended to convince you otherwise. This comment was written purely for any other MRP readers who may be trying to swallow the Red Pill, but feel like they're now ending up in a needlessly adversarial relationship with their wife, and are wondering why that's happening. My hope is that they, unlike you, realize their approach may be misguided, because it involves too much anger, or a misunderstanding of frame, or whatever else may be.
You've clearly established yourself to be a hopeless cause, and given you seem incapable of any introspection for the advice given to you here, then I can only you recommend you stop posting on MRP and AskMRP, if only because you're inevitably domestic violence charge will force you to do that anyway.

So she sent an email, and wants him to get back into his hole, stop changing. People hate change, and would rather you stay a failure, than change their mental perceptions.

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (33 children) | Copy

Your replies aren't addressing any of the points at hand, really. All you're advocating at this point is that he do a main event and fail at it.

To be honest, I see this as a good opportunity for a guy who has otherwise failed spectacularly.

And no reason to turn this into a debate of semantics, I understand now. I will in the future use "operate outside your ability to maintain frame faster than you have accumulated the knowledge to defend it." Being pretty blue pill here though buddy. This is the kind of thing I would reply with at PPD.

Your reply I think can accurately be summarized as "you can't save your marriage in a way that I think is dignified, given my experience."

That simply isn't helpful, IMO. He's at the 11th hour and he needs real advice. And to be fair, his post does not reek of desperation. He's in a good spot, he's growing.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy

no. he is in a terrible spot. If he was in a good spot and she did this, it would be a FR of what to do , not a question

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy

Only if you believe she's not trying to manipulate him. If you think the divorce threat is real, which most posters don't.

If you don't think it's real, then there's two things you get from this.

1) She wants to regain control, which means that OP is doing what he should be doing.

2) The reason for the OP is a lack of knowledge, not because he is failing. He's but up against his understanding.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Who really cares what SHE is trying to do? Everyone manipulates. Everyone tries.

Both OP and you need to IDGAF to WHAT wife is trying to get by writing the letter and understand WHY she wrote it in the first place.

Way to many fucks are being given on wives motives. Only thing that matters is what OP is going to do about and if he is going to be man enough to get his dick wet tonight. The door is open.

Everything else in here is mental masterbation.

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're dick waving for no reason at all, your reply IS mine.

"Sooo are we getting divorced or having sex tonight? I'm so confused..."

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy

it doesnt matter what she is trying to do. at all.

we know what she has done. which is to DB him for their entire marriage.

what ever she is trying to do has no merit for discussion.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Already has 2 men stepping up into her frame, and she isn't fucking either of them.

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're not wrong, but it's not helpful either. Your dispute is fundamentally about the fact that MRP is blue pill. Not about the situation itself.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy


[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy

This thread is lol.

OP said nothing about cheating. He has been a putz for 11 years. She was post wall when they met. She gives pity sex because OP is again a putz.

Its not her fault its his. If she wanted a divorce she would start fucking another man or file. Anything less is BS including a letter.

We tell men STFU until you deliver papers. Well women are the same only they land on another dick first or serve papers. She isnt asking him to kill the puppy she is asking to be fucked.

My 8 year old daughter writes me letters. OP needs to throw the letter away. Keep doing what he is doing. And when be gets home tonight he needs to F-close on her and give her the comfort she needs.

These faggots in here need to show some desire to their women. Who the fuck can only get laid 2 times a year. Its pathetic and so is OP.

OP its time to man up.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

Also OP

There is 0 way this is a comfort test.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

I would need two things to jump into the "not a comfort test" column, and that is confirmation that there is no suspected infidelity in the marriage, and the written context of the letter - not just a summary by OP.

Either of these things could cement my position or cause me to jump ship. I am giving the OP the benefit by assuming:

There is no cheating or suspect

The letter was written in "crayon" and not a professional document written by someone who sat their ass down and chucked out the past 11 years of BS into a document for her beta husband to read.

If the "letter" is really a document as to how much OP sucks, and how he has failed, then I jump camps. But I bet it was more along the lines of:

"Babe, I see these changes you are making and am worried, if you are not happy maybe we should look at divorce"

OP sounds like he is in the UK vs US by his choice of the word "holiday" and not "vacation" so they have similar divorce laws.

I do not know many 45 year old women who just want to be alone w/o a man around, even if he is a putz. Again, no mention of branch swinging or anything so I still tend to be in the "comfort test" camp.

The only way OP will know and us, is by adding more detail (I am far to lazy and uncommitted to OP to look through his history) or go home and F-close attempt and fail, and come back here and tell us.

The article you link is a good read, and applicable I agree.

I mean she did write him a LETTER. She didn't suck his dick, or anything WE would consider to be a comfort test in our books. But for OP's current putz status, maybe that is all she will give him.

[–]crimson_chris-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. This guy is 3 months into MRP vs. 11 of being a pussy and she wants comfort? What are we doing here? Not a comfort test. And she doesn't give a fuck. She gave him a morning pity peck. It meant nothing to her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ha! Your advice is to FMOFY? Now that's total complete absolute Rambo.

[–]sadomasochrist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is not my advice. My advice mirrors other users, which is that this is a comfort test. Which he treated it as, and passed (the kiss was weak, but hey, that's where he's at).

[–]Alphaphux6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

She loves me but doesn’t like me sometimes

Now where have I read that ... “I love you but I’m not in love with you”

Outcome independence buddy outcome independence. You will have a relationship with your 11 year old whether you split up or not. The fact that she’s willing to divorce amicably (at least for now) is positive.

You get one life, don’t fucking waste it. Your next move should be to the gym, to the veggie section or to your favorite hobby

[–]RPStone-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. Also...

She eats a crap diet, does very little around the house. She is a great mother though.

There are plenty of motivated plates out here who would gladly help you out around the house for an ounce of your attention.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your next move is to watch what she does and not what she says.

Simply insert, "right now I feel like...... Before any statement she makes.

" right now I feel like we should divorce. "

Right now I feel like we will be married forever.e

Right now I feel like saying I do.

Right now I feel like I don't want sex with you.

Tldr: this is common. Right now The woman wants back her obsequious and compliant beta.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yep, definitely a comfort test. She's wondering where she fits in, and if any of the changes are for real. The kiss is a good sign though.

You don't say whether you are lifting or not. Are you?

[–]changing_bobby[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, I'm lifting (Strong Lifts) Also running. I know some say it's counter productive, but I figure that I need to be able to run enough to chase down a bad guy... or catch a bus. I'm working to get a good 5k time. Nothing beyond that.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cardio is important for your overall health, and helps a lot with maintaining an active lifestyle, so good.

Here's a post that might help with the rest. Be careful though, timing is important.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Not a lot of back story as to what caused her to disengage sexually your first year of marriage.

What's the story there?

[–]changing_bobby[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Things were never 'hot'. It quite possible I jumped from one marriage to another for the sake of my kid.

I had a wild year as a single man, but wanted stability for the little one. That felt right at the time, but could have been totally wrong.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Simple really. You have a MAP. Stick to it. Your timeframe for improvement is another 12 months so that is your timeframe. She does not get to change your plans by just 'talking'.

Watch what does, not what she says. She said you should divorce, she hasn't done anything about it, she is passively sitting back waiting to see what you are going to do.

You are still early in your journey, you are improving each day, don't let her seeking some comfort derail what you are building, a masculine man.

[–]BostonBrakeJob2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Mine said something similar soon after the pill started dissolving "I don't like the 'new you.'"

Which, in my case, translated to "My hamster doesn't like all these changes. Where do I fit in in all this?"

Do what you want, but my advice would be to ignore what was said in the letter, stick around and utilize her as a sparring partner, if nothing else, and see where it goes from there. Maybe she comes around and things will be better than ever. Maybe she won't. If not, you'll be in a much better position to leave and start gaming other women.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Same. I had emails, post it notes on the TV, text storms, everything.

I never read any of them. I should really go hunt, see if I even have them. Maybe post to show OP how ridiculous chicks are sometimes.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Married 11 years, and youngest kid is 11. Is that your kid ? What about the other kids ?

Would you marry her today if you were not married, knowing that she's useless (I don't even understand what a "good mother" means if she's a crappy example to your kids) ?

What do you want your life to look like in 5 years ?

She just told you to kill the marriage but does not want to have the guilt...

[–]changing_bobby[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well spotted. Should have been in the original post, which I have just edited. We both had a kid each from previous marriages.

My good mother comment meant that she'd raised my kid as her own. I did the same with hers. Hers has just moved out, so maybe that's part of this - my job is done? I supposed I hadn't seen her behaviours as setting a bad example to the kids, but yes, I need to open my eyes.

  • Would I marry her today? No. I'd not be planning on marrying anyone, knowing what I know now.

  • What do I want my life to look like in 5yrs? A good question, and the fact that I don't have an answer means I have much more work to do in this area.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The sidebar has some great books.with a recommended procession

Apparently you woke the fuck up from your beta coma, recently, and stopped being her emotional tampon.

Apparently, something is going on with you.

This is strange behavior, and thanks to the band life, the writing is on the wall. It’s called a comfort test.

You sailed right through it. Hence her behavior this morning. Your attitude/ stance on the letter is called frame and you need to remember to operate in your frame.

Once she got pregnant you probably thought she didn’t want to fuck. And, after the birth you had to give her “room”. See that ? “You”

Better start working on you and your needs. It’s all on “you”

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Blah blah blah blah... "I want a divorce."

But blah blahblah blah...


So give it to her.

You get no sex, no comfort, no value from her.

You just got a free pass. A written, "I want a divorce" statement.

Give her what she wants. What have you got to lose? Gain?

Sexless roommates for 11 years? WTF?!!?

Get out, continue your journey.

Just to be crystal, I'm normally in favour of plodding through the dread steps, conditioning, growing together, but you've WASTED 1/2 your adult life with a sexless cold unhappy depressed woman.

What makes you think anything will change?

Not to say this isn't your fault... you still need to put in the work to ensure Mrs CB #2 isn't just a carbon copy standin.

Embrace the single life.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I loved the single life. It's easy and it's calling me.

I need to sort out if this is oneitis, or a deep relationship that I want to save.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

I've got an 11 yr/old to think of. I have a great relationship with her, and don't want to mess that up.

You’re in denial if you think a sexless marriage is a part of a “great relationship.”

I interpreted that letter as she’s kinda hoping you kill the puppy, but she’s will to put forth a half hearted effort. You’ve had a shitty sexless marriage, but if you feel Ike it’s worth it, you could try applying MAP and dread. Or, you could look at this as your path to freedom.

Your 11 yr old will be fine either way, maybe even better off if your intimacy situation doesn’t turn around. Don’t think kids can’t sense something is off, and that can scar them deeply.

You have to make the decision though. You could give it a timeframe in your head, and then make the decision on your own terms since My gut is you don’t have the balls to kill the puppy.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

That sentence was my bad English. It was my 11 yr/old that I was referring to. I've edited it to now read - "I've got an 11 yr/old to think of that have a great relationship with". The relationship with the wife is clearly not great.

Thanks for your insight. At this stage you might be right, maybe I don't have the balls. This is why I need to continue pushing myself to find out what I am capable of.

[–]BobbyPeru3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why I need to continue pushing myself to find out what I am capable of.

That’s fine, but keep the formula simple. Sidebar, lift, MAP.... do these and you will become attractive and develop frame.

Chew on this: you have oneitis for a woman who hasn’t been giving you sex for years You are lacking abundance.

[–]mountainbiker1780 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Agreed with u\BobbyPeru, in addition to the changes you are making (for you), you also must set a time frame for her to respond. You need to have a goal or metric for yourself to achieve and a threshold for how she responds. For example, if you increase your SMV (lifting, game, etc) then she must also respond to those changes in whatever way you want. By establishing that threshold, you can determine whether you want to stay or go. If you don't set that for your relationship, then you'll be more likely to stay in a shitty marriage, which horrible for everyone in your house.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Okay, this is interesting, how do I set that time frame? Is this something that I should communicate to her? If not, how do I keeo it from becoming a covert contract?

[–]mountainbiker1780 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What I'm saying is you need to set boundaries for what is acceptable behavior from her. You don't tell her what your boundaries are. Talking is feminine, doing is masculine. So you communicate your boundaries through action. You improve you; become the best, hottest guy you can. Determine what you will accept and not accept from her. If she doesn't do her part, according to your standards in the time frame you set, then you move on, because you are the prize and there are lots of other women out there who will gladly treat you like a king and suck your dick.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The prescribed time frame around here is one month for every year you've been married, based on the 12 Step Plan of Dread. No, DON'T say anything about this to her. At all. STFU.

Also, you need to understand and develop Boundaries in your life.

[–]KidBrody0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

This sounds a lot like me and my wife. Instead of getting the divorce we had discussed, we decided to "try harder". Neither of us really tried and she ended up fucking my neighbor. What I'm about to tell you is what I wish someone would have told me.

You do a lot of explaining all the things wrong with her, very little explaining the things wrong with you. I used to do this to. Telling anyone and everyone who would listen how shitty my wife was to me and how great I was to her. The first major lesson I learned in my RP journey is one you haven't apparently learned yet....You're not very far in your RP journey if you don't realize your wife is a mirror of you. This is especially true since you say she is a great mother....just a shitty wife. If she's a shitty wife that's YOUR fault. She watches TV all the time because it escapism from her depressing as fuck home life with your alcoholic ass. She doesn't pick up the house because as First Officer why should she give a shit about the ship if the Captain doesn't? She doesn't "like" you because she can't respect you and it's impossible to like somebody you do not respect. And she doesn't fuck you because the thought of fucking you repulses her. Let me guess, after initiating sex over and over and getting turned down you eventually stop trying and that's how you got to having sex only 2-3 times a year?

I watched my wife do what your wife is doing for years - completely devoid of the knowledge her behavior was a direct reflection of living with an insecure alcoholic beta pussy who was constantly unloading negativity and complaints upon her wanting her to make ME feel better. The first opportunity she had to fuck a Chad she took it.....and I might as well as put the dick in her myself. I realize that now.

You have a kid, and because of that you only have 1 choice, that is to man up and start being a leader to your wife specifically. STFU and stop any and all covert contracts, complaining, explaining, etc. Start focusing on what's wrong with YOU as a husband and a man. What's you change what's wrong with YOU you will get what you want from her.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You have a kid, and because of that you only have 1 choice,

You're projecting your morality here. There are many choices. There are options and choices.

[–]KidBrody0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Looking after what is in the best interest of the innocent child you choose to bring into your shit life and shit marriage is not "my" morality - it's morality, period.

Why is it when we are talking about making a huge commitment or sacrifice to lose weight and lift weights or get out of debt or stop making excuses and take ownership of our own bad decisions it's called owning your shit and we're not allowed to do anything but tackle them head on.....but when the bad decision is bringing a child into a fucked up marriage of our creation all of sudden we have all of these "choices" and "options"?

All I'm saying is as a parent, if ever there is a conflict between what you want and what is in the best interest of the child, you default to what is in the best interest of the child. Don't like it? Shouldn't have had kids. You made your choice when you choose to have kids and now you're obligated to act in their best interest until they are grown. There are enough fucked up kids out there from fucked up parents who shirk their parental responsibilities. The reason we have so many blue pill men out there is because so many boys these days are now raised by single moms and absentee fathers.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't have the time to teach you because you aren't able to see past your own ego. you aren't going to make it with that bullshit you just wrote.

You belong over at /r/realalpha so go and stop making shit up you don't understand.

Sacrificing oneself for others is the reason there are blue pill men. There are men here that have stayed for the kids, or are, and they have come to realize certain things. Like I tried and have come to realize.

What that is? Brother, your head is far up your wife's frame you're licking her cranium.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Iwonder how often the 'childs best needs' align perfectly with 'wifes flippant desires'?

[–]neverminditis0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women are emotional creatures. It could be only her mood and feelz at that moment. Don´t take her words at face value. STFU, never bring the issue again and keep improving.

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Based on your post you are still a shitty man. You have probably always been a shitty husband. Divorcing your wife will not fix your problems, it will probably just make them seem less urgent.

Again, based on what I read, her letter is probably not a comfort test. You have been on MRP for a couple of months right? There is a low probability that your SMV has increased to the point that she is worried about you leaving. She just doesn't care anymore. Which is a lot worse.

Hold tight. Keep lifting. Keep reading. Work on dread and then take stock of the value you get from the relationship.

Also, there is no end to the journey, especially if you are married.

[–]changing_bobby[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed, I'm not awesome, and never have been, and no my SMV is probably still lower than hers.

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Look, I am having the same conversation with my brother. Improve yourself FIRST. Once you get "there" - you need to giver her time to catch up. Then evaluate. Her response is a lagging indicator of your leadership, so give it time.

My wife has given me comfort tests and she has given me the "IDGAF about your commitment" message. Based on the post, your issue is the latter.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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