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New to MRP and the marriage looks like it's coming to an end

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October 12, 2017
13 upvotes

Me married 17 years, age 41, 1 10 year old child.

I first came here soon after discovering my wife texting other men, this resulted in marriage counselling which after one session we both believed it to be bullshit and decided not to go anymore.

During the texting incident, before my beginning of the red pill I think I handled it OK for a guy who knew nothing. Basically I told her if she wants to text men, there's the door and pack your shit. Deep down though I was scared what this meant for me, how could I ever go on and other bullshit. I did promise to work on myself though, I knew I had caused this issue and really couldn't blame her for looking elsewhere. She agreed to stop and I proceeded to turn into a placating blue pill faggot and began hating myself. This was a mistake.

I then found these subs and read for two weeks, I read a few of the books, some shit really excited me. Every post though was like lift, lift, lift. I'm not a gym guy but thought that's what they say, that's what I'll do. I've been going 4 days a week for two months doing the major lifts. I have found the gym to be a real pillar for me, I enjoy going, I enjoy lifting more than last time, I enjoy it isn't easy, I enjoy my muscles hurting and I enjoy being around other motivated people. I have a long way to go, currently I'm 6', 21% BF and 205lbs, what you guys call skinny fat or maybe just fat. Squat is 200lbs, bench is 140lbs. I'm thankful that mrp puts such a strong focus on lifting, it is changing me physically and mentally. My diet has improved and I'm drinking less alcohol.

My newbie gains really worked with the wife, sex increased from the usual once a week to three times. I used to indulge in porn on the off days when I felt like it but now I don't feel the need for porn and really have better ways to spend my time. During my reading I understood I had a few of the covert contracts that resulted in butt hurt, I'd get caught in shit tests firing back which I could get quite nasty and degrading about. I always put down my wife which is a fault I have learned to own, in a way I wanted her to push me, to make me make bigger decisions, have her say in the vision for our family. This was a false expectation, I guess I was asking for her to hand out my mission. A big part of me degrading her was her dedication to alcohol which I didn't respect, now I don't mind a drink but she will fall asleep on the lounge after 1 1/2 bottles of wine, night after night. She had some serious medical issues in the past, ongoing illnesses that affect her daily life and the usual anxiety girls get. My attitude was HTFU and get on with life and look to the future, my comfort was lacking and my respect for her dwindled.

As far as OYS goes pre red pill I think I was OK. All finances were mine to control, I jokingly told my wife she can't be trusted and we'd be broke in a month if I let her manage things, again me putting her down. She was still well looked after, she is a modest girl with modest needs, not material at all which made it easy. I'm well into 6 figures for salary, we live in a nice place. I'm handy and I can fix shit, anything around the house is mine to look after, the yard, the washer is fucked, all this was mine to handle and I did it out of enjoyment. Shit is fucked, great I get to learn how it works. I enjoy these challenges in life.

I believe I led the family well before the red pill, we literally crossed deserts under my direction. Need to drive through 3 feet of river water not a problem, just be prepared to jump if we get stuck. I love putting myself in these unsure situations, life can be too safe, too predictable and we must get uncomfortable regularly. Around the home I was usually busy but did have the covert contract of I did this so you should do that and if you don't I'll get shitty and call you on it. Soon into red pill I stopped that, you guys say if shit needs doing, do it, which I did. This turned out great for my wife as she now had a lazy life drinking wine and being looked after. I then read with earnest about choreboy, I didn't want to be a choreboy. I called her on it which resulted in her wondering if I wanted a medal. I turn around and walk away accepting that I could have handled that better and reinforcing my disrespect for her.

Red pill has helped me with leadership though as the focus is on being fun. My process changed from "where do you want to go?" to "We have dinner at 7pm, wear something sexy and put that slutty red lipstick on". This worked well and I enjoyed it. Let's go here, let's go there. I've got tickets to this we're going. My wife generally enjoyed these outings and I felt it was great family time.

Red pill has taught me my game sucks and it probably sucks with my wife hence the texting issue. I have got better and looking better has helped a lot. I learned about the teasing and making fun of her. It worked well and she would initiate all the time. It was good sex too not boring old married couple sex. I have got more confident with girls in public too, I look better, feel better so fuck it I'll flirt. I never had any interest in any women outside my marriage, maybe because I enjoyed controlling my wife and the sex was always there.

Fast forward to this week and well what do you know texting men again, her saying she can't stop and it gives her the feels. I put this down to me being so early in my journey and I am far from any form of mastery, experts say my journey is a good 18 months, I'm two months in, making mistakes but feeling positive about my slow progress. My wife says she needs texting to forget her day and forget her issues, she says it is not sexual, flirtatious yes. We all know this is bullshit, I detect the branch swing and soon will come the met up and then the magical dick of another man. For some financial reasons we need to stay together for another 4 months, this is critical as it affects the future of my child otherwise I would end it now, we have committed to making this work during this time, she has also committed to fucking me during this time which I found odd and maybe this is a ploy to keep me delivering the comfort I provide until she swings away. The strange thing during all this is the sex is still there, her emotions are still there. She does fuck all around the place and still drinks but she has time for me, fucks me and is generally not a little bitch about things. We still laugh and have fun together. I kept thinking it was that she was getting the dick elsewhere and it was guilt but I don't see it, no doubt it won't be far away with the texting. We had a long discussion about breaking up and getting into finer details, there were tears and plenty of emotions. I was surprised at how OK I was with all this, I had few comments to give and did some DEERing which I regret about her not trying to improve herself and rather looking at an easy life escape through the attention of other men. I suggested that cutting back on the wine and going to the gym might make you feel just as good. Anyway after hours of this talking we get to bed, she jumps on top and starts fucking me hard, it was passionate sex that felt good. What the fuck is going on here? She says she will always love me and always want to fuck me but then goes onto say that I'm a controlling asshole and that now she has a good job doesn't need to put up with it anymore. I have done some controlling shit and I can say hurtful things, she brings up shit from the past and talks about events from 15 years ago and and how she is over it all. What's going on here? I get it I've been a dick, I'm working on changing myself but the 1000' rope may be just too long in this case?

During my short journey on red pill things began to get clearer, about two weeks ago I had a shift from "Can I make our marriage work?" to "I don't give a shit". I'm going to be better anyway, I have a long hard road ahead of me and I will be the best that I can. I will make mistakes, own them and get back to the grind. Deep down I'm excited about going my own way, maybe this "want" to be free has been picked up by my wife? I have a mission that goes beyond her, a goal that does excite the wife when I mention it. I'm missing something big here though. Any kind, gentle words for a poor faggot like me would be appreciated :)


Post Information
Title New to MRP and the marriage looks like it's coming to an end
Author salsasix
Upvotes 13
Comments 50
Date 12 October 2017 02:51 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205288
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/75u6u4/new_to_mrp_and_the_marriage_looks_like_its_coming/
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Comments

[–]lukeyj_gtfc10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

In No More Mr Nice Guy, Robert Glover talks about caretaking. Give her some task to do. Give her some belief she can do it and build her up. Captain isn't leading first mate. She blames you for controlling because she feels powerless. You can instil this on her. Or at least try.

Signs are a little worrying and you're very aware of the chances of failure but maybe the powerlessness is building resentment. Give her something you don't have to do yourself. This will verify for sure if this is the issue or it's nonsense.

I'm divorced and you ideally want to know you tried things before giving it up.

I wish you luck what ever your destination is.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

What? She is still texting other men?

Yet fucking you?

It's simple. You don't do anything for her but she hasn't crossed the line to fucking other guys.....yet. She's getting all the validation from others and then taking it out on you. But it could be any one really, you isn't the factor here. It's a fucked up. BUT I am willing to bet if you went and fucked other women then it would be a problem for her.

You need to set a boundary hard core. You are basically being cucked.

You might be able to turn this around if you grab your little validation whore by the hair and force her to behave. Because as much as you think about how great it is to be on your own your next relationship will be the same unless you man the fuck up.

You've left yourself with no options so you are putting up with it. A man with options is powerful.

Get some.

[–]salsasix[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I understand, I set a hard boundary but she is taking advantage of the financial situation we're in and calling my bluff. If that wasn't in place it would be over and she knows it. She's got me with no options and it is killing me this texting bullshit and I know it's largely about me getting better so she can see I'm the prize. That takes time though.

I am very aware the fucking other guys will come, I have spelled this out to her how it will happen and that I know it will happen, just a matter of time. Part of me just wants to say fuck it and go nuclear but money is money, the amount is significant and my kid will suffer for it.

No options is giving me the shits.

[–]hystericalbonding6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have spelled this out to her how it will happen and that I know it will happen

That's pretty weak. Give her enough rope to hang herself. What you're doing now is just driving her into emotional affairs, at the very least. Even if the marriage is dead, you need to develop these skills to avoid falling into the same traps in the future. You'll also be happier.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are Eeyore.

You suffer from cognitive distortion.

Eeyore, the old grey Donkey, stood by the side of the stream and looked at himself in the water. “Pathetic,” he said. “That's what it is. Pathetic.” He turned and walked slowly down the stream for twenty yards, splashed across it, and walked slowly back on the other side. Then he looked at himself in the water again. “As I thought,” he said. “No better from this side."

No matter how you look at the situation or any situation you find nothing worth doing. It's already decided. It's already done.

Your head is so far up her frame you can lick her cranium. I don't know this financial situation you are speaking of but you have a choice here. You always have a choice.

You just don't want to make hat choice because you've convinced yourself that it's for the best. Plenty of guys here have broken away when it seemed like a horrible idea and rolled up their sleeves.

/u/ex_addict_bro is one of them that comes to mind. You always have choice. Some how you've decided you don't.

[–]viderelux1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I set a hard boundary but she is taking advantage of the financial situation we're in and calling my bluff.

Why are you bluffing? That's not actually setting a hard boundary, is it?

She's got me with no options No options is giving me the shits

Rethink this. You have options. You have chosen money as the highest priority in this situation. That may be the best choice, maybe not, but it's the option you are choosing.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

set a hard boundary but she is taking advantage of the financial situation we're in and calling my bluff.

i don't think you understand what a "hard boundary". if you know you're full of shit and she knows you're full of shit, why even bother attempting to not be full of shit?

[–]L0git3x3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

One thing I heard from a guy that got divorced for the same reason.

He had a therapist tell him "You cannot work on your relationship and be focused on other people"

if YOU think texting is a problem then it is.. it doesnt matter WHAT the hell she thinks on the issue. It really doesnt.

STOP TEXTING OTHER GUYS ASSHOLE.. TEXT ME Ill pretend I am Javier or whatever the hell. Go get a burner and do it.

That aint good enough.. fuck off. Non starter.. your shit from 15 years.. yea.. really had to dig to find that?

You are controlling? chances are that is nothing new? Right?

so.. Your wife probably has to go. dunno im a romantic of sorts and I think you can fix anything but.. meh..

on my buddy. his story is a bit more screwed up.

His wife didnt want to stop straight up banging guys while they "worked out their marriage issues" I told his ass when he said "She wants to swing! That is cool right" to which I said "Dude.. I have NEVER seen a successful couple that swing. Ive seen some really SCREWED UP divorces as a result. DONT do it"

Did he listen.. No..

He called me "My wife is having sex with the couple and I am not participating"

dummy..

She was a bipolar mess a financial shit storm.. He dumped her and it has been 4 years. He started dating 6 months after I told him "go completely NUTS on Tinder dude. The post wall game is wild" He had no idea of what the "wall" was.

He confirmed to me first hand it is real as hell. This doughy cuck fatass pulling down some quality tail.. Cmon.. all this after years of drought with his past wife who only got horny after she started swinging.

he finally listened.

He went nuts for like a year. The stories he had were hilarious the pics I got were great too. He isnt even that good looking. Then met a single Audiologist (Hearing doctor) who never had been married. I think their asses were in Mexico last week. Dude is getting married. Sent me a txt of a pic of her and in the background the ocean while I am at work.

She is pretty cool too. so.. whatever.. good luck man.

Take care of your 10 year old as much as you can.

and you arent a faggot.. my buddy is for watching his wife get railed a bunch of times while he sat on the sidelines. actually I am thinking the parlance for him is a "cuck"

Even his ass aint doing that bad.. Down in Cabo railing a doctor.

[–]470_2_700_nm2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a big soap opera you faggot. Embrace MRP for 1 year and embody everything it is.

You just another fat fuck looking for a cheat code. This is a long game. You can’t even set a boundary right now.

Keep going.

[–]hystericalbonding2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

she has also committed to fucking me during this time

You can't negotiate desire.

Don't try to control her. Establish your boundaries, and maintain them with consequences. Those consequences are removal of your attention and, if the problem continues, removal of your commitment to the marriage. Manipulation with anger will only reinforce your Nice Guy habits and her belief that you're a controlling asshole.

You need to cut out the alcohol before you can expect her to do the same. I wonder what would happen to the texting if she weren't drunk... At the very least, cutting out alcohol would help you to gain muscle and lose fat faster.

I'm assuming here that they really are flirtatious texts to guys, and you're not a retard who gets jealous and mate guards whenever she has normal conversations with her social or work group.

[–]salsasix[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for this. The removal of my attention and commitment due to crossing boundaries is something I have been conscious of, you are right I did this with anger with expected results however later did it by removing my time and attention getting a vastly different reaction. As I gym more and focus on stuff that needs doing without getting butt hurt I'm beginning to care less making me a more calmer person. I'm no perfect student here though.

The alcohol I agree has to go, I have often drunk too much and am no angel here. The problem is we often have some good times together over wine. It's not unusual for us to sit down for hours at a time talking and laughing while having too much to drink, this often leads to drunk sex which is fun as well. Alcohol has slowly become a problem for us.

[–]hystericalbonding1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem is we often have some good times together over wine.

That's some weak rationalization. You know that regular consumption of alcohol doesn't fit with your current goals. Whatever you do, do it 100%.

[–]470_2_700_nm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Using alcohol to enhance sex has some value.

Even better if you can get her drunk enough but not spinning, and keep you practically sober.

But if it’s getting to alcoholism then you are on a whole other universe. I hardly drink anymore.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Problem with him removing attention and time is that he doesn't have the pull yet for it to have much power. With her being so full of resentment, removing his time and attention will only go so far and likely push her in the opposite direction. It can also backfire when she's extremely angry like this in regards to validating all her rationalizations why HE is 100% of the problem.

If he can get her to a point where she is invested enough to improve herself (ie... give up the binge drinking), then the attention/time punishment will start to have the desired effect. There has to be some level of investment from the woman for that to work the way it should.

I doubt that without therapy, he'll be able to push the ball over the hill to get things rolling or be able to get her investment before things completely unravel. We also don't know what kind of social circle she has which could help or compound the issues depending on the quality of friends (if she has any, if she doesn't have a solid social group, that could be an issue of isolation that would compound the control issues and also feed into the validation seeking texting).

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Problem with him removing attention and time is that he doesn't have the pull yet for it to have much power

You seem to be looking at it from the usual perspective of negative reinforcement. That would require her to value his attention on some level. That's fine for many MAPs, but there's more to withdrawing attention than that.

I'm looking at an OP who is controlling and paranoid, at least from her perspective. Withdrawing time and attention in response to her bad behavior instead of his usual tactics would be an improvement. The same goes for the alcohol - he's currently feeding into it by drinking with her.

STFU is also important, with all the subtleties outlined by jacktenofhearts here.

Avoid smothering. It's a common script for dealing with a walkaway wife.

It also gives him time to work on himself and take the focus off of her.

It can also backfire when she's extremely angry like this in regards to validating all her rationalizations why HE is 100% of the problem

He is the problem. Acknowledging that is the single most important step in almost any MAP.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

More about feeding into expectations on what to expect from removing time/attention. Right now, I doubt he'd see the normal results by doing so when she's already checked out. Until there is some investment from her, it's basically a gift to her.

He's already taking more time for himself, he's accepting where his failures in the past have been and his eyes are open to them now, he started cutting back on alcohol already (but yes, he does need to cut it out entirely, it's being used as a crutch for feels). He's got the right path laid out and he seems to understand what he needs to do and is building on new habits. He needs to keep going, but he's not really at a place yet where removing time/attention has power.

He still needs to utilize it regarding the texting, but his expectations of results should be tempered by her level of investment.

Him taking time for himself should not be confused with withdrawal as a punishment for bad behavior. He really doesn't want to confuse the two when his wife starts connecting the pattern of withdrawal meaning she did something wrong. That's going to lead to new issues if the sub-communication every time he takes time for himself is that she's being punished for something. It's important to have a distinction between the two.

no disagreement about smothering. But taking the focus off of her shouldn't be part of withdrawing time. That should be a function of doing things for himself that have no connection to her behavior.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

expectations on what to expect from removing time/attention

I expect that he'll spend more time doing things that are rewarding to him. There's nothing more that he should expect. The goal isn't to modify her behavior. The goal isn't to make her happy, sad, angry, scared, hungry, or sleepy.

He really doesn't want to confuse the two when his wife starts connecting the pattern of withdrawal meaning she did something wrong

No shit. Aspergers is bad.

Does this mean you agree that his withdrawal of time and attention from her shouldn't be used as an overt means of negative reinforcement? If so, then why the talk about whether it would have any "power?"

Until there is some investment from her, it's basically a gift to her.

It's not about her.

He needs to stop maladaptive behaviors, and he needs to invest his time in people and things that add value to his life. Trying to engage with her when she's fucking around on her phone doesn't qualify.

I don't see saving the marriage as a valid goal. This marriage is fucked because he's fucked. He can unfuck himself and learn to be an attractive person, but it will be much harder to do if he hamstrings his efforts by worrying about how she might benefit. He has an exit strategy already.

As for therapy, I know you're a fan. I'm glad you had a good experience. But this guy isn't a therapy candidate. He isn't you.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I think not approaching removing time and attention when it is triggered by bad behavior as anything but a form of negative reinforcement is a twist of logic that doesn't bear out with the reality of the action, nor how it is talked about and utilized within RP/MRP. At it's core, it is a manipulation designed to elicit discomfort and negative feelings in the SO as a queue to change her behavior. That's the root of the motivated state you're attempting to induce in your partner by communicating in that way. It doesn't mean you're being shitty about it, but that is the fundamental pressure at the root of the motivated state you're inducing in the SO to seek positive emotions again. Overt or not, the effect remains and the truth of that is that it's negative reinforcement no matter how you slice it. But I don't disagree with you at all on how you present the withdrawal, but it doesn't change the fundamental nature of what you're doing.

What you do with that time to yourself is a separate question and of course it should always be something enjoyable or constructive for the man less you make it an exercise in spite which is both immature and a nice guy behavior (and unattractive).

It's not about her.

Right, it's not. But you can't pretend her input to the dynamic doesn't exist. She's still there and she's still affecting you no matter what your own focus happens to be. After all, you expect your first mate to contribute to the smooth running of the ship. Otherwise, there would be no relationship of any kind. If she weren't a variable that your actions effect and are also dependent on to some degree, then things like avoiding choreplay, withdrawing time/attention, etc... Would have no point, nor would they exist as concerns. Her existence and the fact that she has an effect on you is a fact of reality that is true while it is also true that you can't base your decisions ON her and she can't be the focus or the reason for the work you put into yourself.

Whether she needs to be invested is not a question. How you respond to her level of investment is the question. So it's not ABOUT her, but it still involves her as this is one of the fundamental aspects that determines what level of sacrifice or energy spent on her brings value into your own life. Measuring her level of investment is a requirement of any relationship that guides much of your action and also where your expectations should be placed.

To that end, working relationships have the same value determination in play and it often hinges on how invested they are to goals that advance yours, the organizations or both of your professional goals/futures.

The main impetus to me posting about the withdrawal is how many times we see people come in here confused as to why they're not getting the expected results from withdrawing time/attention and it's almost always a function of too much negativity polluting the dynamic or their mindset. Hence the push / pull distillation that is often repeated because I think it covers the dynamics involved in removing time/attention well. With OP acknowledging how his own negativity has polluted his dynamic and his frame of mind and being aware of that now, it's pertinent to his situation that he understand where the limits of expected results likely sit until he becomes a better leader of his wife and his family which will generate the pull.

But like i said before, the time he dedicates to himself that has nothing to do with her behavior is where he should be investing the bulk of his work. Because removing his time and attention from her is situational, those are times to either fit in more work within his normal goals or focus on things that can be picked up and stopped on a more casual basis (minor house projects, additional time spent on readings, listening to a podcast, whatever...). And that's an important distinction to make internally because whatever his internalization fo those efforts are is what he will knowingly or unknowingly communicate.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I think not approaching removing time and attention when it is triggered by bad behavior as anything but a form of negative reinforcement is a twist of logic that doesn't bear out with the reality of the action

You're continuing to contradict yourself.

You said that withdrawing attention now would be a gift to her. I said it doesn't matter, because it's not about her. You then said that withdrawing attention is negative reinforcement, and calling it otherwise is somehow wrong. So, is it a reward, or negative reinforcement?

Luckily it doesn't matter, since it's not about her.

If she weren't a variable that your actions effect and are also dependent on to some degree, then things like avoiding choreplay, withdrawing time/attention, etc... Would have no point, nor would they exist as concerns.

OP's wife is nothing more than practice. Maybe she'll magically turn around, but I doubt it.

The main impetus to me posting about the withdrawal is how many times we see people come in here confused as to why they're not getting the expected results from withdrawing time/attention and it's almost always a function of too much negativity polluting the dynamic or their mindset. Hence the push / pull distillation that is often repeated because I think it covers the dynamics involved in removing time/attention well. With OP acknowledging how his own negativity has polluted his dynamic and his frame of mind and being aware of that now, it's pertinent to his situation that he understand where the limits of expected results likely sit until he becomes a better leader of his wife and his family which will generate the pull.

Then why didn't you just link to jacktenofhearts post on dread and sexyshoulderdevil's post on verbal intercourse? They're pretty detailed outlines on how to avoid eating paint. Removing the option of withdrawing attention would be doing OP a disservice. You could have said, "No, he can't, because he might be an autistic retard who does it in transparent fashion or for the wrong reasons."

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You're continuing to contradict yourself.

Withdrawing time from a checked out spouse is not much of a punishment. It's ineffective and may be a reward if things are bad enough.

Withdrawing time from an invested spouse is a punishment. It's effective because they are invested in you and it creates a motivated state via negative emotion.

Not sure why that reads as contradictory.

Then why didn't you just link to jacktenofhearts post on dread and sexyshoulderdevil's post on verbal intercourse? They're pretty detailed outlines on how to avoid eating paint. Removing the option of withdrawing attention would be doing OP a disservice. You could have said, "No, he can't, because he might be an autistic retard who does it in transparent fashion or for the wrong reasons."

Because this is internalized knowledge, I don't keep a bookmark list of posts.

Note that I never suggested he not utilize withdrawal. I reinforced he still needs to utilize it in the face of bad behavior. It's the expectations of results that needs to be understood so he can diagnose her responses. Ie... He can use her reactions to him withdrawing attention to help gauge her level of investment.

Considering they can still enjoy time together it may be able to be turned around, but who knows, it'll run off the rails if she doesn't put effort into herself in response to OP's work and he'll be right to end things if she decides the effort isn't worth it to her. Which I know neither of us disagrees about.

We probably don't disagree about when withdrawing is effective or not. I think you may have just been misreading my comments as binary choices.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I always read your posts, because your perspective is different from most, but this was a less productive exchange. I wonder if this is how you argue in real life.

Linked from 12 steps of dread in the wiki is this explanation of dread.

I already provided the link to sexyshoulderdevil's post.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think what we're thinking is actually incompatible but I can't bridge the gap. All good. I don't think you're wrong on any of that, our minds just aren't meeting.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Since taking the pill, I realize that boundaries are only enforceable if you are willing to walk away, and more importantly if you have other available options.

If she knows you have no options other than her (because you're fat, out of shape, have no game and anger easily) she's far more likely to repeatedly test your boundaries. I mean what are you going to do? Walk away from the only woman who will put out for you?

She knows this. You know this.

You're only option is to get to work. The only way is forward. You start fixing yourself now, not to fix the marriage, but to fix yourself. She has no respect for you or your boundaries because she knows you have no options and aren't willing to walk away.

Change those two facts and you change everything. With her or without her. It doesn't really matter. The stay plan is the same as the go plan. Only by being willing to let go of everything and burn it all to the ground (if needed) can you make any sort of progress.

Now get to work on the sidebar. You've got a ton of work if you actually want to get anywhere.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy

Wow.

This was probably one of the best AYS (acknowledge your shit) posts I have read here.

I got here almost exactly the same way as you, but I was a career beta when my wife started up her shit with other men.

I'm not going to address your post line by line, but I would like to comment on a few things starting with the ending...

"Any kind, gentle words for a poor faggot like me would be appreciated."

That's sarcasm, right? Because your needle-dicked, bug fucking, fucktard moronic Rambo narcissistic bullshit is just downright offensive. What you really need is to be bitch slapped and gang raped by 6 brothers all named Bubba in the middle of a prison yard.

Your life, your wife, and your marriage are 100% a reflection of the 'man' that you are. It seems you may have plugged into that so I'll let that go.

Money is driving your decisions. Great. As long as 'something' is in control in your life...at least something is in control, albeit money.

My first wife was a total loss. A fucking useless loser piece of shit that natural selection should have taken out at birth. If I KNEW I could get away with it, I'd rid the world now of that fucking resource depleting scumbag. But I digress...

I was told I couldn't divorce my first wife. I couldn't afford it. I should just set myself up in an apartment upstairs, see other women but don't bring them home, and keep putting my paycheck in the joint account.

No.

I didn't.

I'm not driven by money. I left her sorry ass and got custody of two of the kids... Ok, I'll let it go.... fucking divorced women. Should be open season on them.

Back to you...

You diet to lose weight, you exercise to look great. Lifting makes you strong, not lose weight. You are 'improving' your diet? What the fuck does that mean? That line of thinking kept me a fat fuck for 50+ years.

Why not just eat like you are supposed to right now? If you are confused; nuts, fruits, meats, vegetables, oats, and water. No alcohol, no soda, no coffee. Well, maybe a LITTLE coffee.

Download an app like MyNetDiary and track your calories and all your macros.

"I know I had caused this issue and really couldn't blame her for looking elsewhere."

Um, YES YOU CAN!!!

It's fucking great the beta part of you understands WHY she's an emotional whore prostituting herself for feeelz outside the marriage, but that DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY.

Even as a blue pill career beta pussy before I found this sub I told my wife that she will NOT have ANY one on one, intimate relationships with ANY man, period.

Can she have a business lunch with her boss? Yes.

Can she go out with her work TEAM after work? Yes.

Can she go out with her men/women exercise class after spin for a banana smoothie? Yes.

Can she go out for a drink, alone with any man, ever, outside of work for any reason?

Not only no, but FUCK NO. She burnt that pass and her next date is the last day of our marriage.

But you gave your wife a pass in the name of understanding her behavior and owning your shit.

Great.

Fucking do better next time, no matter who it's with.

Look, your path ahead of you is very simple. That's not easy, it will be really fucking hard at times, but it is very simple.

Why is it so simple?

Because the answer to your fuckitis is right over there in the sidebar>>>>>>>

Go back through the beginning, drill it down, lock it in. Understand exactly what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what you will do next.

Your wife is fucked up.

Your marriage is fucked up, and probably over.

You are fucked up.

Guess which only ONE of those you can UNfuck?

The right answer will lead you to success. The wrong answer will lead you to despair and failure.

Right now, STFU is your friend.

Just fucking close your mouth.

LIFT like your life depends it. READ like your future depends on it.

Because they do.

I'm serious, go back to the beginning and absolutely lock your shit in. The shit you skip or miss will derail your train later.

I wish I had more time, you probably wish I'd just shut the fuck up.

Get your shit together, no more fucking around, and realize unplugging and becoming a real man will be the toughest thing you've ever done.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Fuck

Edit add: Read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida if you want to understand her emotions

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

you gotta stop wasting so much energy on guys that won't even answer - the types of guys who post looking for validation of their pre-existing cognitive biases..

op is gonna read your post and think "this guy is an asshole". if people are gonna think you're an asshole anyway, why not be one?

[–]hystericalbonding1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

I think he's building an autoreply for all first posts. It's almost cut and paste.

His reads more like a high school football coach than mine would:

"Stop playing the victim - the problem is you. Read the sidebar, reflect on the content, and apply it. Lift, unfuck your appearance, and own your shit. Lurk, but don't post for three months. Then, with a healthy dose of introspection, post in the weekly OYS thread to outline your MAP going forward."

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Exactly.

Since the praxeology applies nearly universally to noob problems, the standard answer will apply almost universally.

It's kind of like lifting.

There are different ways to do it, but the answer is still, LIFT.

My 'auto-reply' should be done this weekend.

Shouldn't take long to peg my first victim with it.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

If it is good, I may steal it for the automod :)

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Oh fuck, no pressure there!

I'll polish it and make it shiny, just for you.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Good artists borrow

Great artists steal.

It's not for me, it's a way to suss out value leeches from guys worth a damn. I truly hate this place, it was never here when I got my start. It's only utility is to keep me from having to ban and remove low quality assholes who want their pity parties, so they have a place to have their testicular cancer meetings.

I don't regret any comment I've placed in here, they are more for me to learn better articulation of my ideas anyways than they are expecting a guy to actually unfuck his ego/life.

My only worry is that you're going to burn out, once you realize how fucked men are, as a gender. I remember when Rollo asked me. What I thought the greatest barrier to men was. My answer?

Learned helplessness, self sabotage.

Women are not the problem, any more than they are the solution. We no longer have wars to harden men up, or cull them off. All that's left are cold showers in the morning and pep talks about being men...

We are men, that is what we are.

It's helped me get along with my step father even. I wonder how many of these guys could benefit from being picked up by the scruff of the neck, shaken a few times and thrown to the ground when they were young.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I'm grateful for this place, not for all the noobie fucktards that come skipping through here like faggots in drag, but for all the veteran motherfuckers that gave me a good old fashioned foot stomping in my ass with my first post.

I'm not here for sexual strategy. I'm old, fat, wrinkled, and I still get sex on demand and she initiates at least twice a week. I could probably have sex every day, but 3-4 days a week is enough, right now.

I came here because I knew I was fucked up in my head. I worked HARD my whole life, 2 and 3 jobs at a time, 60-90 hours a week, 30-40 days in a row without a day off. I poured EVERYTHING into my marriages and my kids.

I turned 55, feeling the same as I did at 25 and no further along in life. Why didn't I have anything? Why wasn't I happy? Something was missing.

So I went to the fount of all useless knowledge, the ubiquitous Internet. And I found MRP. I don't remember how, but I did.

It all made sense. It's like I found the missing pieces to a puzzle I'd been putting together for 40 years, without the fucking box to look at.

MRP is that box for me. The sidebar is those missing pieces.

Yeah, and at 55yo I was devastated. I was pissed. Honestly, I actually fucking shed a tear, or maybe two. DEFINITELY not more than two....I think.

So, like you, I cannot say that my comments are altruistic. I comment for me. In the arena of ideas, in this training ground of our metaphorical Kung Fu, this expression of my understanding of the sidebar is also my dojo, the place where I get better, hone my skills and learn new moves from the veterans.

So yeah, my comments are for MY benefit. If someone else benefits, then cool.

I feel better about my life. In 6 months, better shape, better groomed, better dressed, tighter game; nobody is going to look at me and say: 'I bet HE used to be fucked up.'

No. I'm going to enjoy every day of the rest of my life. And if/when my wife's pussy ever closes, I'm going to find u/VasiliyZaitzev and show him what a great jazz harmonica can do for his band while we destroy pussy all over America.

And I will add a clause to my will, $25,000 bonus to the pussy I die in while slaying it.

I will enjoy every single fucking day (fucking) for the rest of my life.

Thanks to MRP.

Will I burn out?

Probably about the same time I lose interest in pussy.

That means I intend to be on fire for 25 more years.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

/u/firetempered figured it out, so did /u/sampsonbrass you're ahead of the game

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, and at 55yo I was devastated. I was pissed. Honestly, I actually fucking shed a tear, or maybe two. DEFINITELY not more than two....I think.

At 65 years old, my awakening was a hard one. No shame that more than a few bitter tears came after the initial rage.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck man...

Respect.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why do you bother mod here if you hate it? Why is it worth your time? I don't get it.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm new, and learning to channel my inner asshole.,. It's just not as BIG as yours...yet.

;p

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

learning to channel my inner asshole.

That's what I love about you bro.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you gotta stop wasting so much energy on guys that won't even answer

Confirm. Took me a while to get that drift and implement it. (thanks W&S for giving me a clue on this)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In simple terms, you have not got the 1000 foot rope tight enough yet. The only way to tighten the rope, is by propelling yourself forward and not looking back. It really has to be all about you. Takes time, you have a good start.

[–]bala-key1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 6', 21% BF and 205lbs, what you guys call skinny fat or maybe just fat. Squat is 200lbs, bench is 140lbs.

That's just fat.

I was surprised at how OK I was with all this

That's important. She can sniff it out when you're afraid.

[–]tacko2761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Look I've been there and so far have done pretty well to sober the fuck up and rite my ship. I became a little bitch who wasn't leading or owning his shit. I definitely moved too fast Ramboed some shit. But I continue to work and things continue to improve.

But Here's the cold water you my friend. You have Zero frame and your wife owns you. Her lady dick is very, very far up your ass. if she is fucking with other guys via txt, snap slut, fuck face or what ever social media she uses, her ACTIONS show zero respect for you or your marriage. She's basically telling you that she will do whatever the fuck she wants and as long as she fucks you, you'll put up with it. You will continue to provide for her in exchange for sex. Subsequently she is actively and openly engaging inappropriately with chad, despite your disapproval. This is a pretty good example of the female pluralistic sexual strategy. She wants you to provide the tingles emotionally but she wants Chad to provide the tingles physically.

To summarize she doesn't give a fuck and really doesn't take your efforts seriously. Because you are still in her frame and she doesn't respect you or the marriage. Continue to work out, read about Dread. Educate yourself on on hypergamy and female sexual strategy. Personally I think the best advice I can give you besides read the fucking side bar is go get a fucking life outside of your marriage. Like TODAY. Get a hobby go do something fun and interesting. Lead by example. once you get a life you can "encourage" by "encourage"I mean stop being a bitchy little shit monkey with no balls or frame and "lead" your wife to go do something more fulfilling then drinking wine and sexting Chad.

Blah blah side bar side bar blah side bar side bar side bar blah blah ..... Now stop being winy little shit monkey and go lift

Get to fucking work and keep us posted

[–]screechhaterRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Try 12% body fat and then tell me your sob story

"What the fuck is going on here? She says she will always love me and always want to fuck me but then goes onto say that I'm a controlling asshole and that now she has a good job doesn't need to put up with it anymore. I have done some controlling shit and I can say hurtful things, she brings up shit from the past and talks about events from 15 years ago and and how she is over it all. What's going on here? I get it I've been a dick, I'm working on changing myself but the 1000' rope may be just too long in this case?"

Hamster talk, "you are working on you, I acknowledge it, but I am having a hard time believing it "

And, this is why we say, BF%, Kino, Lifting, Game, Wardrobe and Dread, are the shit, you po little faggy waggy

[–]zeteomegaleio0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have few options right now, so despite this advice being hard to implement instantly in reality, you have to get stoic: What can you control?

You can choose to not be upset about your wife being a whore.

You can focus on yourself; you have more to read, but lots more to internalize.

You need to keep losing weight and lifting.

Fuck your wife for a few months, or don't, whatever, but you need to focus on saving and fixing only yourself here. The next 4 months needs to be a complete focus on fixing you when not handling your responsibilities like work and parenting.

The more you build yourself up, the more you are going to realize you don't need this shit and can do better. And she might change and become a very valuable person in your life (my LTR has done a complete and utter 180 to where she actively subscribes to and believes in being a red pill woman, and is happy to embrace a very submissive and feminine role when a year ago she was doing shit worse than your wife because I was a beta bitch), but if not then you leave and get someone of value.

In other words, you have no options now, but if you put in the work in these next 4 months, you can create some for yourself. Put in the fucking work.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of the key components with the red pill is that you have to be HONEST with yourself.

Quite frankly, I don't see a lot of honesty here.

As far as OYS goes pre red pill I think I was OK.

Really?

I believe I led the family well before the red pill, we literally crossed deserts under my direction.

Really?

Red pill has helped me with leadership though as the focus is on being fun.

The focus is your MISSION. What is your mission, soldier?

Fast forward to this week and well what do you know texting men again, her saying she can't stop and it gives her the feels. I put this down to me being so early in my journey and I am far from any form of mastery, experts say my journey is a good 18 months, I'm two months in, making mistakes but feeling positive about my slow progress.

Are you really being honest with yourself here? Is it REALLY because you are so early in your journey? sniff sniff I smell excuses.

Deep down I'm excited about going my own way, maybe this "want" to be free has been picked up by my wife?

Again with the honesty. Are you really being honest here?

As you've said you've taken the red pill, I'm sure you have read MMSLP, pages 290-297, aka the section on cheating. If you haven't, then start being honest, read that again, and then let us know what you are going to do.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think you’re worrying too much. Your hamster is out of control. You’re trying to own your shit, yet you want to own her shit too. Your finances are under control and you’re getting your body in shape. Focus on what’s really important to you— I assume Health and your kid.

I like the idea of giving her a job. She sounds bored.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're all over the place. You drinking tonight?

But, as far as you saying you're ok with everything, I think you might be in a combination of shock and denial. 2 weeks of MRP won't change you that much - you're just experiencing the initial euphoria of the pill. We all experienced it.

Keep lifting. Read the entire sidebar.

140 bench? You need to cut at least 20 more pounds. You're probably closer to 30% BF than 21%. You need to get on a serious cut and don't stop until you hit 190 minimum.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Validation seeking.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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