659,329 posts

[Beginner FR]: Seeing results, still far to go

by NoneSuchAs | September 22, 2017 | askMRP

16 upvotes

Reddit View

This past week I pretty much withdrew all romantic attention from my wife. As I said in my last OYS, it was clear to me that there was no sexual energy between us, and that I was better off focusing on myself. The final trigger for this was a failed attempt at sex a couple of weeks ago; we were cuddling and naked but after a while it was obvious to me it would progress no further, so I rolled over and went to sleep. It's not the first time this has happened.

At that point, it didn't matter to me why it wasn't working.

She wasn't attracted? I was just being autistic? She's a dried up old shrew? She's all repressed over some personal history I don't know about? I'm just a pussy?

Doesn't matter. This isn't working, I'm banging my head against a wall here, this man and this woman aren't making progress, something has to change, I'm going to change.

So I just decided, good intentions aside, results matter, and my results suck. Whatever I'm doing, it's not working. Whatever she's feeling, she's not acting like a wife to me. There's no point in pretending. Right now, she's as good as a housekeeper and babysitter, and my constantly trying to sex her up is counterproductive. I don't need to be cruel, I can still be cordial, but the romance is done here. No more trying to be a "good husband" for me. I'm going to focus on my vision and goals, make my life what I want it to be, and not waste a moment trying to make her feel anything.

So I just stopped a lot of the old routines. There were a few routines that have literally never been skipped, with rare exception, since we married: Kiss good morning; kiss goodnight; movie together on Friday (literally every Friday night since 2001 or something). But too often lately, those kisses were just reminders for me that I could kiss her as a routine, but actual love-making was not happening.

So I stopped. A light hug in the mornings. At bed-time, I go to bed on my own, say goodnight as I walk by, and leave her alone with Facebook. On Friday: Sorry hon, no time for a movie tonight, gotta get up early tomorrow and work. The rest of the time, I'm busy working on my business, working around the house, with the kids, reading something I want, getting good sleep, doing what I want. Still as friendly as I can be, share a story over dinner, laugh at funny stuff, whatever. But none of the old "husband" stuff.

Sure, I worried this would be hard on her. I noticed she seemed sad that I didn't kiss her in the mornings. But fuckin' hell, placating her is not going to help me. Trying to make her feel everything is all right, that's not going to help either of us. I don't need to intentionally torment her, but I'm done with this codependent make-sure-everyones-happy crap.

After a few days of this, it occurred to me that I was free to flirt with her if I wanted, that I could practice game with her as well as with anyone else. I don't have a lot of game to practice at this point, so I haven't really done much with that, but it's not a bad idea.

Last night I came home late from a tech meetup, as planned. We talked a little, then went to bed around the same time. No kiss, no hug, no touch, just climb into opposite edges of that gargantuan king-size bed, and sleep. Years ago I thought a king-size bed would be great for sex, but recently it's just become a way to sleep very far apart from each other.

Some time in the early hours of the morning, I heard her whimpering lightly in her sleep. It's happened a few times over the years: she has a nightmare of some kind, and makes these little whimpering sounds, like a scared puppy, in her sleep. The first few times it happened I would ask her what the dream was, she always said it was a big dog chasing her or something; later I stopped asking because it's probably not worth talking about. What she needs at this point is a lot of comfort and strength in the form of a long and solid embrace.

So I stroked her awake, said "Hey it's me, come here," pulled her over, and held her close. Probably a good ten minutes of just lying there holding her. She shed some tears quietly, I wiped them away, and kidded her with an old joke about her side of the family being teary-eyed softies. She kidded me back.

Somewhere in here I kissed her briefly, and after several minutes lying together, me autistically debating in my head ("Is there sexual tension now? Gee I have a hard-on, but what to do?") I gave her a long hard kiss, noticed that she responded, and proceeded to rip her clothes off and take her.

It was pretty passionate and emotional. Normally at this point I would be tempted to say something mushy like how much I love her or I'll always be your husband or whatever. This time I tried to say nothing, but at some point I asked her, "Whose woman are you?", and she laughed. I asked her again, "Whose woman are you?" and she said quietly, "I thought you no kiss me any more." (My ESL wife.) Again, I was tempted to say something mushy and explain blah blah blah, but instead I said, "You're my woman, that's who you are."

The only other thing I said to her, near the end of it, was, "I want you to sleep closer to me." We slept spooning the rest of the night, on my side of the bed. (This matters to me. I've spent too many nights nearly spooning her off her edge of the bed; I didn't admit it to myself for a long time, but it's clear I was chasing a woman who didn't want that kind of attention from me.)

This morning when I left for the gym she was still asleep. I kissed her and asked if she was watching a movie with me tonight. I don't feel as worried about "keeping her happy" as I did before, but I do want to validate her as a wife by giving her some husbandly attention.

So what are my take-aways here?

  1. I still have a lot of things to work on in my life, and I always will; it's up to me to work on them and get results.
  2. Focusing on my vision can have an effect of dread, which can pull her toward me; this is somehow different from "trying to apply dread".
  3. I want a good woman in my life, even though I don't need this particular woman.
  4. Actual DGAF is subtly but significantly different from trying to DGAF.

Questions: What could I have done better? What important points am I missing? What potholes should I watch for in the road ahead? Not that it matters much to me, but is this DL4?


Post Information
Title [Beginner FR]: Seeing results, still far to go
Author NoneSuchAs
Upvotes 16
Comments 17
Date 22 September 2017 05:20 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205399
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/71sh66/beginner_fr_seeing_results_still_far_to_go/
Similar Posts

TRP terms found in post
Click to open them on Dictionary

Comments

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I go to bed on my own

Wacky thought right? I remember we ALWAYS used to go to bed together. Then when unplugging I figured the same as you...I go to bed when I want. No more guaranteed kissed before bed. No more going back upstairs to kiss goodbye in the morning. No more running to find you when I first get home from work. Those who come to me to say hi get an enthusiastic greeting, those who don't, don't.

Only small suggestion, the movie thing. Say: "I'm going to watch X tonight if you'd like to join." It relays that you are doing it, and she can join you...rather than asking if she is going to join you. Subtle but effective.

Keep it up.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Careful not to immediately return to the old treatments after some sex. Get used to treating her this way. It creates tension. It's necessary. It's not cruel.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What important points am I missing?

you stumbled onto it by withdrawing your attention; but as a general rule you cannot seek comfort from your woman or in any way be needy. seeking comfort is her feminine role and seeking sex is your masculine role. by

This matters to me. I've spent too many nights nearly spooning her off her edge of the bed

you are seeking comfort. last summer i just stopped cuddling unless it was after sex or she sought it out. of course, a bit of a Mexican standoff while the frame is reset (to mine). now she seeks out the comfort and cuddles. some other tips:

  • the already mentioned king position is gold

  • be mindful of cues she wants to cuddle like moving towards you in the spoon position

  • kino her in bed - just hold your feet together, lay a hand on her back, brush up against her . . . these are your invites to her for some comfort.

  • don't interpret every comfort seeking on her part as an invitation to sex as this will teach her to not seek comfort. rock solid OI is key here.

So I just stopped a lot of the old routines.

routine/habits are your enemy. always be varying your approach/kino. she wants mystery and surprise. her hamster works for you when she is wondering when you will deliver a kiss. this also makes DL4 so much more subtle and powerful because she is wondering is he ignoring me "just because" or "because i was a bitch". you have plausible deniability and she is operating in your frame.

i thought the "whose woman are you" exchange was quality dEvi. this:

I want you to sleep closer to me.

needs some work. do not ask, request, or otherwise verbalize your needs. instead command them with:

come here

sleep with me and pull her towards you

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, this is a solid post. I feel the best part of this post is the realization that what he was doing in the past wasn't working - thus changing it up.

Solid field report. Keep it up.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I don't feel as worried about "keeping her happy" as I did before

So a couple tears and some spooning is all it takes, right? I hope you busted a nut deep inside the Orient broh or you are just an orbiter.

You need to CONTINUE to stop worrying about keeping her happy as you did before. The second you start worshiping her is when the shrill, sex denying bitchiness starts up again. Try it and come back in 2-3 weeks and tell me I am wrong. I dare you.

I have an entire section about this in my book about changing up your "affection" routines. It can definitely have a profound impact on a woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I like this post, I like the way you have handled yourself. Just keep doing what you are doing. Next time you fuck her be even more selfish, you are not trying to please her, you are using her to get off. Maybe grab a handfull of hair (at the root), pull gently, if she moans appreciatively, pull a little harder. Do her doggy style and push her head down, or hold her arms behind her back. Women love dominance. Given the way she said "you no kiss me" I assume she is asian. Asian women are even more submissive (as a rule) than western girls. You dominating her and making her submissive is key. Continue to vary and break routine, remember the commandments of poon, you only give her 2/3. For every 3 times she gives you comfort, you give her 2 back. Good work son, 88Will88 is proud of you!

[–]simbarlionRed Beret-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

Nice post.

You've been at this longer than me but your post has a bit of a 'fuck you' vibe. Thays cool if its working but might look butthurt.

My only point is that you can't change too many things at once, unless perhaps you are a long way along your map. 1000ft rope and all.

I mean no offence, but you state that the only comfort and affection and sex she gives followed an upsetting nightmare.

Its good that it worked, just need to get there without the nightmare s.

I think you are still in her frame too

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Take some notes. This is what determination and OI look like. Tit for tat, or any kind of actions based on her behavior aren't mentioned here...he's just pushing for what he wants.

[–]SgtSilverBack1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd say he got tired of shit that wasn't working and learned from it. One of his lessons was too quit the habit of comfort and then he did it because he genuinely wanted to.

That's the only way this works fellas. Give a hug or kiss because YOU want to not because you are expecting her to reciprocate.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Another man gets it. We are building an army.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter