Why do we men give a damn about her state of mind?

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Nec_sorte_Nec_fato
September 5, 2017
11 upvotes
askMRP

Why do we men give a damn about her state of mind?

I see it everyday here on askMRP from other OP's, and I'm no different.

Yesterday wife was distant and cool toward me most of the day (later discovered due to low level dread she's feeling - yesss!).

I did a better job of using /u/BluepillProfessor 's "Extinction" method of ignoring her negative behavior and rewarding her positive behavior. I managed to hold frame pretty damn well and be lighthearted in spite of her negative vibe.

But.

Every single time I was met with her coolness I would be in turmoil inside that she wasn't "happy" for lack of a better overall term. My emotions covered angry, curious, resentful, confused, etc. etc. etc.

Why? WHY?!? At this point in our piss poor marriages why do we give so many fucks?


Post Information
Title Why do we men give a damn about her state of mind?
Author Nec_sorte_Nec_fato
Upvotes 11
Comments 44
Date 05 September 2017 11:21 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205529
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6y7buy/why_do_we_men_give_a_damn_about_her_state_of_mind/
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Comments

[–]alwaysdoubledown8215 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

Because we are drawn to love by making other people happy. Even at the cost of our own happiness.

It stems from our childhood. My dad beat the shit out of me. I protected my mom by being a punching bag so she didn't have to be. Her being happy was my happiness

We are broken. It's all in the books if you read them.

I carried that into my marriage 20 years later. So have you. The sidebar is our friend. I'm reading as much as I can. So should you.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because we are drawn to love by making other people happy.

Because we have coupled our self-worth with other people's happiness. FTFY

It stems from our childhood. My dad beat the shit out of me.

You need to dive in and work on these core childhood issues. I've had my share of beatings. They change you and mostly not for the better.

Welcome back bro, keep going.

[–]hystericalbonding4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's hope for you yet. I had wondered.

You already lift. You're reducing alcohol use. Applying NMMNG and WISNIFG at this point will get you 95% of where you need to be.

When you shift from codependent caretaking to being an assertive and more confident man, it will be easier to get your wife to step up and take care of her sleep problems and other issues.

Your schedule is a good one. Don't expect any positive change on her part for the first few months. If it happens, great, but you're starting from the bottom.

As for OP, he's also in phase 1, stop operating in her frame. He's so deep in her frame that he's enraged by her emotions, rejections, and the internal beliefs and experiences that make her human, that make her more than a pedestalized fantasy.

Phase 2 is building your own frame, inverting the power dynamic. It seems necessary for some, but IDGAF here often represents a codependent person overcompensating. They're still codependent. Many never get past this point, including many flaired guys. the difference between the two is blurry. To me it's like porn - you know it when you see it.

It's better for them than it was before, but there's a step above.

Phase 3 is when the guy sheds codependency and becomes capable of healthy relationships. Eliminate the scoreboard. Become two fully-functional people whose lives are enhanced by the relationship.

[–]alwaysdoubledown821 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the great reply.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

low level dread she's feeling - yesss!).

faggot

I managed to hold frame pretty damn well and be lighthearted in spite of her negative vibe.

look guise! I have own thoughts and everything!

Why? WHY?!? At this point in our piss poor marriages why do we give so many fucks?

because you are biologically conditioned to care about your tribe.

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

because you are biologically conditioned to care about your tribe.

I disagree. Care about them by providing, hunting, and doing dangerous stuff. Care about their fees fees? I don't think Zog the hunter cared one bit about some woman's pouting on his way to slay that bear.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

we are not wired to differentiate our feelings between the two

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Remember when you were little and your mom told you you did something bad? Remember that look on her face and how terrible you felt because she was upset?

You never replaced that model with anything better.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You suffer from a lack of OI. Some of it's your fault, some isn't. We've been conditioned by society to feel this way but have also allowed it to happen by being weak. Do you think Crag the Caveman gave two shits about a woman's feelings?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cuz she is your wife and you want to make her happy. It is natural. Our reaction to her unhappiness is where the difference lies.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

Yesterday wife was distant and cool toward me most of the day (later discovered due to low level dread she's feeling - yesss!).

da fuq? you're doing something wrong if the result of dread is "distant and cool". the fact that you don't understand this basic concept?

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. Somehow I missed this.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

I understand the concept of dread. Wife is more toward the Unicorn end of the spectrum and she's definitely responding differently than those women who bitchy constant Shit-Testers.

She's definitely seeing the changes in me, some she likes (mentions improving body, grabbing and hanging on to my upper arms while I'm fucking her) and others she says she does not like. Says "she misses and liked the old me". I also think my changes are spooking her cause she's definitely sexually attracted to strong dominant men but all of those guys in her past fucked her and discarded her.

After wife started behaving better yesterday evening I listened, without reply, to what was in her head all day (provided some comfort to her and gathering intel frankly). For example wife says she doesn't like me making Captain decisions without consulting with her first, that she now doesn't feel "part of a team". Apparently she instinctively knows where this is going b/c said she "does not want to be a submissive wife". That surprised me but I STFU and didn't confirm or deny.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unicorn

lmao. sounds very typical actually. you're not special and neither is she.

at this early stage, i think STFU and listen was the correct play for this confirmation. had you spoke, A&A would have been the only play (i.e. neither confirm or deny). you have to take (earn) the Captain's chair through your actions not any explaining.

in summary, what she is really saying is she does not yet trust you to be the captain . . . not that she does not want a captain.

you want to make her feel as though she is "part of the team" as your FO. the key is to always operate from your frame but to invite her into it.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That surprised me but I STFU and didn't confirm or deny.

Quiz for ya. At what point in WISNIFG was this written as a tool? You couldn't see an obvious lace for fogging, negative inquiry/assertion?

STFU isn't a tool, it's telling retards to put down the potato before they hurt themselves

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

My wife responds to dread differently than most I've read about.

She's not a harpy bitch, she's a manipulator. She has this way of not asking me to do something that results very quickly in me all but begging her to let me do it for her.

It took me a minute to figure that out, but now I just call her on it.

Me: with a smile on my face... "Sorry, passive aggressive request. If you want _______ to make the list, (me holding up my phone where my to-do list is), you have to make a normal request."

I'm making changes slowly, deliberately not going Rambo, working 2 months for each level of dread to my ten months of work for ten years of my relationship with her.

Things are going very well with her.

My actual biggest problem is that I was a drunk Captain and locked myself in my at-sea cabin for a year. My to-do list remains long, so I'm usually very busy getting shit done.

That's her love language. Me getting shit done. It makes her wet and she initiates often when I complete a project.

It's not a covert contract, I'm doing what I know needs to be done. I don't even tell her when it's done. But when she does finally notice, there's usually a 'bonus'.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I have a bit of an atypical dynamic as well. Mostly due to her having a good balance of masculine traits to her feminine. I don't get shit tested (no, it's not the usual sign of lack of attraction or having no faith), there are never hysterics, I couldn't even tell you if she's pms-ing she's so stable emotionally.

She's still AWALT, but most of the more volatile qualities in AWALT she has in mild doses.

So the biggest challenge for me has actually been bringing out more of her femininity and discarding her own sexual programming that works against herself.

Well that and getting her off her ass more to clean and take care of her and the kid's own mess.

But shit testing, usual responses to dread, none of it is the standard narrative. I almost wish it was, because manufacturing some emotional journeys to inject some passion is a lot harder when their baseline is so stable.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You give a good description of something I have been parsing in my mind for a few weeks now.

The blend of male and female traits. AWALT holds true, but it seems that it is not the only driving force. There is something else on a subconscious level. The Redpill basics had a positive effect, upto a point. To get further I am looking at ways to discard the sexual programming as you put it.

How do you propose tackling the challenge?

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

For me, the hardest part is that I'm impatient and when it comes to her, I'm not the greatest teacher because of that which I'm currently focused on improving.

It really comes down to creating an atmosphere where sex is an open and safe topic. TFA has one of the best condensed posts I've read on it:

https://thefamilyalpha.com/2015/12/30/creating-your-slut/

I'd be surprised if you haven't already read it since I've seen you on the boards a lot.

Sex God Method has a good breakdown of creating emotional intimacy while also injecting dirty talk / dominance. My wife doesn't have much of a slut bone naturally, or I should say, it's turned way off. Anal play is something I introduced her to years ago but that's not really "kink" even though there's some excitement around the taboo and challenge it represents. But it's mostly a function of feeling relaxed and turned on and understanding how to ease them into it.

With my wife, it's often difficult to get her emotional seas up so she can fully tap into her femininity. If I make her cry, then guaranteed, the sex is super hot and she drops her inhibitions. But that's not sustainable and I always have a bit of distaste with that process anyway. Erodes my respect for her.

Variety is another big factor. She's already been fucked everywhere in the house. Occasionally I get our daughter zoned in on TV and then start fucking her behind a door right out of sight for some voyeuristic excitement (TFA may have mentioned that also in the blog, or maybe a comment somewhere).

Getting her out in social situations also greases the wheels. If for no other factor that at least for that time, you're out in the sexual marketplace which adds sexual tension beyond any sort of social proof, etc... You might display. Also changes things up a bit.

Drive to a random spot after going out and fuck her out in the open is another option for variety. But she'd likely have to be pretty drunk to go along with that.

Fingering while out in a store shopping is also great. Tell her not to wear panties or make her take them off in public is good too (ie... tucked out of sight around a corner in a store).

I've also started sessions with a sex therapist / sexologist to help her open up more and have someone she can talk openly with that isn't her husband as there are performance anxieties that I can't do anything about by the very nature of me being the husband.

So I just have to whittle down the barriers little by little and if there's fighting or I'm pulling my attention away from her, it tends to just have depressive effects that take a while to rebound. I'm still working on putting it all together, but the trends have been positive and she's sluttier this month than she was the month past so patience and consistency is the game...

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

SGM was a very good source for me, it changed the whole way we have sex. I used to be very passive. Turned it around into taking what I want and dominating the encounter. She is much more into it than before.

Overall sex is much better than it ever was in my marriage, but there are some small niggles I have noticed. u/twogunsgetsome gave a good description of this with his ex wife. Sex is compartmentalised. Will have sex with you now, but when you are done, it is done. It is as if it never happened.

Not a trainsmash in itself, but there is nothing to build on for the next time. The equivalent of a Groundhog day loop.

At the risk of sounding like a faggot our sexual roles are swopped. I require more of an emotional bond, she less so.

As far as I can figure this out, it can be contributed to that same stable baseline you describe. The male/female traits you mentioned.

I am not trying to hide behind it as an excuse for not getting the best performance from her, but it is what I have noticed. Things like Dread. When I dial the dread down a bit she responds better. Women showing interest in me, leads to a withdrawal from her end.

No special snowflake status, AWALT all the way, I must just fine tune it.

Best case scenario: She is on a 2000 ft instead of a 1000 ft rope.

Worst case scenario: I wifed a lesbain!

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol, lesbian stealth bombed!

For me the final wake up call to her was an argument where I was ready to start divorce proceedings. She didn't take it seriously before, but after she vented and felt better all the sudden I was still seething and it finally dawned on her that I wasn't just venting and was dead serious about ending it. That night and for the past two weeks, it's like the wife catering switch went on. I've been watching her to make sure it's not just hysterical bonding, but this seems to be a real long term shift.

One of the things I told her is that she is so focused on me making her life easier that she is failing to view the relationship as a value proposition to me. She wants all this help but what I get in return is her spending more time on the couch while I come home to the most boring and unexciting person in my life. Meanwhile, I get propositioned and interested women every time I go out, so she can tell me how that deal is going to pan out.

After that, cleaning, cooking, apologizing for food smells, apologizing if she didn't turn the air down before I got home soon enough, etc... None of the things she apologized about are things that I asked or demanded or anything, she just knows where my preferences are.

She's putting in effort at sex now and is more receptive to dominant behaviors. She always has been, but she gets more activated now, closer to dating levels, but she shuts down at the slightest kink (dirty talk is still something I'm having to open up more within her).

For her, something clicked, and now I don't need to withdraw and I can spend more quality time with her from a legitimate place internally. So she feels reassured and we're finally on a positive feedback loop.

My wife is similar in that she has never really needed much pillow talk or cuddle time after sex. She's a bit more pragmatic minded for a woman. But what I've noticed is that the sluttier things get, the more important that time becomes to her which is a good sign that she's getting more in touch with her femininity.

It seems likely that what you're dealing with is an emotional defense mechanism. Especially if she is reacting to dread by pulling away. I'm not sure what specific advice to give without understanding your dynamic better, but that would be my guess. The carrot has gotten me a lot further than the stick, but the stick has to be in play for the carrot to be effective. I think she finally is picking up on what withdrawing attention means. It's taken about 4 months for her to start groking it.

My best guess is that there is a fear preventing your wife from unlocking herself completely. Could be abandonment or any number of things, but it sounds like that's what's going on which is pretty similar to what I'm trying to accomplish.

It's funny because I'm better at picking up on covert communication than she is. So sometimes I swear I'm living with a dude. But then soap operas or K Dramas come on and it's a pretty quick reminder. Haha

TLDR: training/punishing bad behaviors has shifted into a mode of taking care of the FO after she realized I was serious about leaving.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

In most of walks of life you're in a cooperative relation with those close to you. You help them, they help you. If your friends are hostile towards you, you fucked up and you need to fix that. Getting ostracized is a huge deal.

Women in a romantic relationship are different. It is not cooperative. They reward friendliness with hostility. All your social instincts for cooperation kick in because she's a close relation but they're wrong.

[–]Aaren_Augustine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They reward friendliness with hostility. All your social instincts for cooperation kick in because she's a close relation but they're wrong.

I still fight an instinct to help when I see that I've failed to lead. Its easier to correct my actions rather than smoothing over her emotions.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I think it's because you depend on her too much. I know in my own life, if I have something that I need my girl to handle and she's pissed, it might compromise her ability to add value to my life and do what I want her to do. I used to depend on her for sex, cooking, cleaning and other basic shit, but once I started just handling it, and realized I can do anything she can do, but better, I stopped having to depend on her so much and became more comfortable messing with her and pissing her off.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Ha I've got to know - how do you handle sex better by yourself than her providing it with desire?

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I know I could get it easily elsewhere if I wanted, so if get turned down or whatever, it really doesn't bother me. The less I care about sex with her, the more she'll want to give it to me though.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Formatting is shit bc not laptop, and unable to quote but:

Yesterday wife was cool towards me "yessss"

and

every time I was met with her coolness towards me I'm in turmoil.

... which is it for you?

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

During the day while she was quiet and withdrawn - turmoil.

Later when she told me why - yesss

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

sure you know this already, but you need to work on the turmoil. her emotions (quiet and withdrawn) are her responsibility. Chad does not give a single fuck.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good reminder.

Chad does not give a single fuck.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree, I'm not there. Yet.

in summary, what she is really saying is she does not yet trust you to be the captain . . . not that she does not want a captain.

I've told her I wanted her on the team, just need to find ways to show her without giving up the keys to the boat.

you want to make her feel as though she is "part of the team" as your FO. the key is to always operate from your frame but to invite her into it.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Analysis paralysis. It's easier than doing what the fuck you want. A bunch of retards playing murder mystery on the train, instead of just driving the train and detaching the cart with all the shady COSplayers on it

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

We men give a damn about her state of mind when we are weak, distracted, not taking care of the Captain and/or the ship, and/or we are operating in her frame.

This is a result of decades of programming at every level; from mommy at home, to a feminized school system and church organization, to the feminine imperative at work manifested through the HR department.

It's also part of the mating paradigm as she naturally responds to her innate hypergamous behavior in different ways throughout her life.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lnw_emcvrPs

The only time I allow myself to give a damn about her state of mind is a legitimate comfort test.

I'm not perfect at this, but getting very good at it.

Everything else is an item on the checklist to do, delay, or discard.

The majority of men are Beta, soft, lazy, easily controlled and even cuckolded by the gynocracy, and when we find ourselves still giving too many fucks, or any fucks, serving that bitch, we must remember we are still partially plugged into the system.

The only legitimate, real answer is to continue to deprogram and reprogram our minds through the sidebar.

All of the answers are there.

[–]_youtubot_1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Video linked by /u/matrixtospartanatLV:

Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views
Matrix (Morpheus Explains Neo The Matrix) 1080p MoviesHD 2016-11-04 0:02:33 41+ (100%) 3,558

Morpheus explains the Matrix of its mind reading...

Info | /u/matrixtospartanatLV can delete | v2.0.0

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent, that covers it nicely.

We men give a damn about her state of mind when we are weak, distracted, not taking care of the Captain and/or the ship, and/or we are operating in her frame.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

In the moment? Because no one likes discord in their life. Try it, next time someone is blabbing on and on, go dead silent. They will feel the need to fill that air with something or get visibly uncomfortable. You want to fix her because you are uncomfortable.

In the long run? Because you lack abundance mentality. My wife is unhappy and acting crazy, I just sit back and acknowledge it. If it starts to go on for more than a few days, I put distance between her and me. Then she gets a come to jesus message. "Straighten up or get the fuck out. I like having you around, but I don't need you. You can be replaced"

More important than her believing it; I believe it. I'm going to live my life knowing that I can always make new friends, have new experiences, and even get a great new intimate relationship with a woman if I had to. I make that clear to my wife, not as a threat, but as reality.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thats the key part. It's something that whinemoreplease used to articulate very well.

The trick? You have to mean it. That gives your body language, tone, and words congruence, and put you above negotiation or manipulation.

Fake it, till you make it

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Roger that, working diligently to make that happen.

I'm going to live my life knowing that I can always make new friends, have new experiences, and even get a great new intimate relationship with a woman if I had to. I make that clear to my wife, not as a threat, but as reality.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Why?

Because men love women.

Women love children.

Children love puppies.

Dogs love men.

It's the freaking circle of life.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The more I read that the more it makes sense on a couple of levels.

[–]haikubot-19110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The more I read that

The more it makes sense on a

Couple of levels.

 

                  - Nec_sorte_Nec_fato

I'm a bot made by /u/Eight1911. I detect haiku.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Man, get the fuck out of her frame.

You have got to be dead on happy 24/7 and whirls while you work.

Read. Read read. DO NOT BASE YOUR LIFE on her. Who gives a Fuck ?

You shouldn't.

Remember this. You lead, she follows.

You are not to be responsible for her emotions whatsoever

[–]smokecheck19760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yesterday wife was distant and cool toward me most of the day (later discovered due to low level dread she's feeling - yesss!).

In other words, she was withdrawn because you were withdrawn. I hear that's a great way to make marriages work....both partners withdrawing from each other. smacks head

Look, don't reward shit behavior, in fact make sure she knows it's shit behavior and why, but don't reward it. Make sure she knows to speak to you when something you are doing angers her.

Every single time I was met with her coolness I would be in turmoil inside that she wasn't "happy" for lack of a better overall term. My emotions covered angry, curious, resentful, confused, etc. etc. etc.

Why aren't you telling her this is how she is making you feel?

Why? WHY?!? At this point in our piss poor marriages why do we give so many fucks?

Because you still care. You want your marriage to survive. You don't want to be trapped in a partnership with a woman who isn't meeting your needs. You are flailing about to try and find some way to change both the condition and the direction of the marriage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because we're romantics

Because we want that fairy tale life even though we know it doesn't exist.

Because as the leaders of our family, we know that we are responsible for their well-being and sometimes we assume too much responsibility and feel that we should fix every negative.

There is nothing wrong with this, just keep it in check and ensure you aren't compromising your authentic nature to keep the peace.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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