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New to MRP, starting to understand the concepts but no idea how to apply them.

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August 31, 2017

Reposting here from MRP:

I am a man without frame. I have read WISNIFG and I am almost done with NMMNG. I have lurked on this sub for a little while now. I am starting to understand how much is wrong with the way I have done things, but I honestly am clueless when it comes to applying these concepts to my marriage.

I am trying to follow the advice about improving myself in NMMNG by doing more things I want to do, by working out and eating better. I have taken control of our finances and starting getting things in order, somewhat successfully. I have started going out with my friends more often, instead of just hanging out with her when she wants me to. As a result, my wife has started to say that I am not interested in her, or that I value everything/everyone above her. I recognize that this is her pushing to see if I have boundaries, if I will just cave, but I mostly stick to it while brushing it off with a tease.

However, when it comes to direct confrontation or if she flies into a hissy-fit about something she perceives me to have done "wrong", I continue to be as helpless as ever, trying to "fix" things or appease her to calm her down or make her happy. I know I am usually just rewarding bad behavior, but in the moment I seriously cannot fathom what the MRP thing to do is.

Tonight, we were looking for new shoes (she has bad foot pains and needs very supportive shoes), after which we were going to go to dinner. After very little luck at the one store, I suggested we leave and try another. She said no and when we got to the car she blew up, saying I was rushing her out when she needed shoes for her foot pains. I offered to go back or take her to another store, but she said I didn't give a shit. She refused dinner, I started to drive there anyways to cheer her up but she cursed me out and said no, so we went home. We've been home for a bit and I tried to explain I was fine with helping her find her shoes all night if need be, and she is now giving me shit for not caring that she is hungry, or not making sure we got dinner despite the fact that she was losing her shit. Even now I have no idea what to do, and my lack of action is now "proof" that I don't care about her.

As you can tell by the last paragraph, I am goddamn clueless about putting this stuff to practice.

TL;DR Do I just keep trying to improve and read the sidebar, hoping to have an epiphany about how the hell to act and be a man? How do you start applying these ideas when your whole life has been spent as a Nice Guy, trying to fix things and avoid confrontation?

Post Information
Title New to MRP, starting to understand the concepts but no idea how to apply them.
Author nalonwod
Upvotes 9
Comments 26
Date 31 August 2017 01:35 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

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[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (6 children) | Copy

My advice to you is to simply be patient with yourself.

I get it. Your head is swarming. You just read hundreds of pages of books telling you how to behave and think, which is different from your default mode of thinking and behavior. Then, you get your bitchy wife (who you're clearly scared of) yelling all up in your face while you're actually trying to be sweet and caring by helping her out with HER shitty problem, being a good supportive husband, and you start thinking "oh fuck, oh fuck, what does MRP say I should do in this situation?!"

You can't remember anything in the heat of the moment, default to your nice guy behaviors, and you've fed the spark that's turned into a fucking raging fire. She's feeding off your emotional oxygen. The more she affects you, the worse she gets until you're groveling at her feet, begging for mercy.

You need to stop thinking altogether, and be patient with yourself.

Everyone here will say to stop giving a fuck about her or what she thinks, which is true, but the truth is you can't FORCE yourself to change how you think.

However, what you can force yourself to change is your behavior.

And the funny thing is, attitudes follow behaviors.

So don't worry about not getting how to apply anything yet. Just focus on one simple behavior to implement at a time and start doing it.

Let's play this out for a second:

Let's say this month you decide to shut the fuck up whenever she says something about you 'not being good enough' or 'not doing the right thing' for whatever reason. Doesn't matter, she's angry with you in general about something.

Instead of asking questions, or providing her with a defense of why you asked to go to a different store...INSTEAD OF DOING OR SAYING just stay quiet.

Pepper in a "I understand" or a "Interesting" if you have to, to avoid looking like a braindead idiot. Just don't say anything meaningful.

If she asks why you aren't talking, just say "I'm listening." or "I don't have anything to say to you."

That's it.

One simple behavior. Repeat this for a month.

Guess what will happen?

You will start realizing she treats you better when you don't engage.

You will see how her being pissed has no real effect on you.

In fact, you'll actually start finding her little temper tantrums to be kind of funny, and you'll start making fun of her during them.

You won't worry so much about what to say or how to counter-attack her verbal shitstorm, and you'll just say whatever you want to get an even bigger rise out of her, because it's funny and doesn't affect you.

Then after a few weeks you'll stop for a second and think: Huh. I totally get how to apply 'agree and amplify' and this 'amused mastery' shit that everyone talks about. I'm not sure how I got here, but here I am.

[–]rocknrollchuck6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think that's the best definition of STFU I've ever seen.

[–]TrenGod372 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly OP should make a post about it. He explained it clearing in that paragraph than most posts on it

[–]BigAjax2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is great. Pretty much every new guy who wanders in here and says he doesn't have a clue what he's doing or why none of the stuff he's doing since finding out about MRP is working, should read this.

[–]SgtSilverBack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very well written.

I would also say that really changing my perspective on the/all interactions had the most drastic change to my frame. Much like the perspective art with the old and young woman, once you see both sides you can start deconstructing the situation and applying MRP theory.

Once I changed my perspective from she is upset and I need to defend my position to regardless of why she is upset I don't deserve to be treated or spoken to like I'm less than she is, I was able to hear her tone and word usage from a more neutral mindset.

That may very well be the "attitude" change that you spoke of that follows the actions.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You still care too much about your wife's mental state/emotions.

YOU CAN'T FIX THIS. Nobody can fix another's mental state.

Any attempts to placate or be supportive or otherwise engage to help her will backfire, because you are paying attention to her feelings.

You can't fix feelings, it's a fools' errand.

Go get me a cup of blinker fluid and a left handed philips screwdriver.

So shut it down. Leave, STFU, distract. A+A, fog, try amused mastery (but you're not there yet), or just refuse to discuss and broken record that line.

When you try to placate, appease, make her feel better, you are by definition in her frame.

Of course she's going to increase the shit testing as a result of you beginning to put yourself first. It's expected and natural.

You don't have the skills to verbally spar with a woman's feelings, so simply DO NOT ENGAGE.

Your best friend right now is the door. She can't wail or complain or rage against a nonexistent opponent.


This does two things. She starts to associate bad behaviour with you withdrawing presence and attention (negative reinforcement) and instills some subtle dread (I was a bitch, where has my man gone? To be with someone who's not such a bitch?)


[–]Alphaphux2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Massive shit test. I'm also new so I don't pretend to know much however I don't go shopping with my wife anymore, following your LTR around the mall while she shops is one of the most beta things I can think of.... (my kids do that because my wife is their mother...)

If she has foot problems that sounds like she has a problem that she needs to address, you're too busy to babysit her.

"Go get yourself some shoes and meet me at the restaurant at".

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't try to do too much too fast- you will just blow shit up. We call that Rambo or kids with dynamite.

Stick with lifting, reading, and STFU for a while.

[–]straius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't have to implement everything at once. It just makes it harder to keep your chill.

Focus on a couple things and just be consistent and continuously add new aspects as you get a handle. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

I personally would treat her as a belligerent child once she ramps up to the level you described and that means no capitulation and a firm hand and will, saying you will not tolerate that behavior any longer and remove your presence from her. Don't get angry, don't shout, deliver it with calm certainty and look her in the eye as you do it.

If she's not, tell her to look you in the face or the eye and get her attention before you deliver it. You are communicating that this is no longer acceptable. Make her acknowledge she heard you even if you have to broken record it and then leave her presence.

You can be angry inside, but you must remain controlled on the outside and find another way to work your demons out.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just remember there is no single solution to the infinite number of issues and relationships.

Mrp is a toolbox of strategies... You only have a few tools. Keep learning (more tools) and trying things out. Sometimes you grab the hammer when you should have got the pliers.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why are you in her frame so deep? Why are you making stupid suggestions about her decision process? More STFU, more Amused Mastery.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

However, when it comes to direct confrontation or if she flies into a hissy-fit about something she perceives me to have done "wrong", I continue to be as helpless as ever, trying to "fix" things or appease her to calm her down or make her happy. I know I am usually just rewarding bad behavior, but in the moment I seriously cannot fathom what the MRP thing to do is.

Just stop trying to fix things, stop trying to make her happy. If she throws a hissy fit, shrug and go do something else.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

my wife has started to say that I am not interested in her, or that I value everything/everyone above her. I recognize that this is her pushing to see if I have boundaries, if I will just cave

This sounds like a comfort test not a shit test. Does "cave" include taking your woman in your arms, kissing her, and reassuring her that she is your Number One? If it does, I suggest you change your definition of "cave."

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hold On there. This cave concept would come from reading and applying the logic.

Apparently, we are failing as the old salts because so many "Rambones" are being made as of late.

Comfort - schmumfort. Who needs that shit anyway. As a reformed Rambo, I'm here to tell you she needs dick, not comfort

[–]Alpha_Engineer993 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

U didn't talk about sex, frequently, or smv?? Do u have a MAP, working out, increasing ur SMV? Or just reading ? sounds like u r still in the beginning phases. Once u start this journey, it will get worse at first. Does for everyone. The dynamic between ur wife and u being a career beta (pussy) has been set in stone.. If she senses any changes in you she will despise it and attempt to crash and burn ur positive changes.... That's why u need to STFU in those infancy stages..

Why the fuck did u tell her to try another store? That was ur first problem. Just stfu. Who really gives a fuck? I'm 3 years into this, so have no problem telling my wife that this is wasting my fucking time and lets go straight to the restaurant. Ass slap, let's hit the road...

She doesn't want your input. She is a harpy bitch because she RESENTS you. Bottom line. Do u think if brad pit suggested to go to a different store she would have reacted the same ? When she married u, she thought she was getting a strong man, but instead she got a fucking man child who acts like a fucking pussy and over the top nice guy. I wasnine of them too. I was in a 10 yrs deadbedroom and it sucked... maybe once per 6 months.. And I could NEVER do anything right, not even stack the dish washer. I always seemed to do her WRONG too. The smallest little detail too.

You have a lot of work to do dude. Unfuck yourself first. At one point when ur SMV increases above hers, u will need to set a hard boundary when she bitches at u for something stupid... It will take that... at one point in the future.. But I dont think u are there yet. U just stfu and build urself up. We need more info to help. If u haven't read mmslp, do so. NOW.

[–]TrenGod370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Read it all again

In the mean time pick something and apply it. Fogging and stfu

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

So who in the Fuck was hungry ?

Drive to the restuarant, park your vehicle, get out, walk to the other side open her door, walk into the restaurant Order.

That's frame.

Go to the other shoe store. Look for other shoes.

That's frame.

Hanging with friends instead of her.

That's fucked up.

Hanging with friends regularly to keep up relationships, because you are still living your life. This makes you, you.

That's frame.

Allowing her to sway you back and forth with her words and then bitch you out because she is still hungry -

Her frame. Shit tests. Laugh at her and mimicking. "I still hungry, even though me no want to eat"

Her telling you, you care more about your friends, comfort test. Kiss on forehead hug

Want a reach around too ?

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hanging with friends instead of her.

That's fucked up.

Maybe. Removal of time and attention is a valid (and encouraged) move if she's being a cunt AND OP is not getting drawn into her shit and chasing her frame around with increasing frustration. I think the distinction is important here. It's questionable whether OP is there yet but sometimes you take your attentions elsewhere. It's conditioning.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Correct for time and attention conditioning, but only if OP is working through passing shit and comfort steps, can't even do that, so why in the fuck does she want to be non-"cunty" if he's not home or, maybe I am seeing it wrong is he away from home all the time ?

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

After rereading his post, I'd say his problem is that he didn't completely own his decisions to move onto another store or restaurant. There seemed to be some hesitation and a "what do you want... just tell me!!!!" tone that doesn't help ops frame.

On the other hand, he was trying to assist her with the shoe mission (nothing inherently wrong with that) but she wasn't unappreciative. If it were me, I would have driven home, told her to get out and went and got myself dinner. I don't help or hang around people that don't value my presence or help. That's what I'd do if one of my daughters did that to me in public after all.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Did you do any of the exercises in NMMNG?

[–]BarryOLo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You start lifting bro

Beginning middle and end as far as I can see.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Frame in a nutshell: You're being reactive to her freak outs instead of being proactive about your goal. Your goal should have been to find her shoes and go to dinner. Unless an emergency or something comes up, you should stick to that. You let a pissed off woman keep you from what you were trying to do. The men who built civilization didn't let a whiny woman get in the way.

Ease into all of this instead of jumping into the deep end at once. Your sanity and your marriage will thank you.

[–]nmjanus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can feel you brother. I'm a few month ahead of you and I know what you are struggling with. Not only do you have to live with your wife handling you like shit. Now you can see the way out but are not yet able to walk it and therefore get frustrated with yourself also. And this is not a good place to be.

My advice to you is 1. Read the answers again, there is a lot of good advice here 2. The changes you are aiming for takes time, don't be hard on yourself. Change mindset from viewing bad encounters as failures to learning experiences. 2. Read up on the basics of stoicism. It will be worth it when you from time to time actually are able enjoy the pain 3. Make The way of the superior man your next read. It sets a lot of things in to new perspective

And keep on grinding

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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