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Show outcome indifference, or take charge?

Reddit View
August 30, 2017

Hi all, I am new to redpill and would appreciate your advice.

For a little background, I have been married 4 years, beta my whole life. The last month I have started to make changes to my life thanks to what I have learned. We haven't had sex since a miscarriage, which was a few weeks ago. A lack of sex life, with her lack of communication, and realizing that what I was doing was not improving things drove me to search for answers which led me to the red pill. I have read NMMNG, and half of the wiki, and I am reading for hours a day. I have started to lift weights for a few weeks, and have started to get bigger as a result. I'm still tall and skinny, but my arms/shoulders are growing thanks to weights. I am going to read Married Man Sex Life Primer next.

At first I went a little rambo, and overdid the jerk. I was a jerk, but not the fun guy, so therefore an asshole. I am trying to find the best balance.

Something happened on the weekend that I would like advice on how to handle, as in my mind there are two possible paths to go in this situation.

Sunday is normally my day to cook dinner. I had previously organised to hang out with the guys for the first time in a while for on Sunday.

On the day of the hang out when my wife learned that I wouldn't be home to make dinner, she flipped. She saw it as me shirking my responsibilities, without leading to organise something else. I didn't realise it would be such a big deal.

She has basically done silent treatment on me since Sunday. I have tried to ignore her, and go about doing work, showing that her mood doesn't affect me. Questions will get one word flat answers from her. On Monday and Tuesday night she was out at the library, and not home until 9pm. Now that it is Wednesday, I learn that she is planning on being out again. I know her friend is studying for an English test coming up so she is being honest about where she is.

Today I told her that I want her to be home, and that she has spent enough time out. She replied that she has already organised to be helping her friend. So I told her to reschedule, it's not that hard. Her response was "no thanks."

I am of two minds of what to do - I can continue to show outcome indifference, and just say "lol ok whatever". Or I can leave work early and catch her before she leaves to confront her and show dominance.

How long do you guys tolerate silent treatment? When do you decide enough is enough? I am pretty sure she could go on weeks like this, if nothing changes.

Thanks in advance.

Post Information
Title Show outcome indifference, or take charge?
Author TheMrCul
Upvotes 7
Comments 48
Date 30 August 2017 04:53 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
betadominanceliftthe red pillNMMNG

[–]ardiaela148 points149 points  (2 children) | Copy

A woman is emotionally distant and hesitant to have sex shortly after a miscarriage, and the fact that her husband is an emotionally stunted manbaby who doesn't care about anything other than getting his dick wet isn't helping? Say it isn't so! Who can even begin to crack this mystery?

[–]seventhseventysecond2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

As if a miscarriage was traumatic! Bah.

[–]ardiaela7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

A five second google search would tell you that many if not most women do, in fact, find it traumatic.


[–]simbarlionRed Beret91 points92 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck man, a miscarriage a few weeks ago, that's heavy..... Put your game on the back burner for a bit.

If you get busy now she will see it as shutting down about the miscarriage for sure.

[–]anythingincRed Beret46 points47 points  (2 children) | Copy

We haven't had sex since a miscarriage, which was a few weeks ago

A dead baby (fetus, clump of cells, whatever) fell out of your wife's vagina. She likely had to have a D&C, which is literally the same thing they do during an abortion. That can fuck people up. If she hasn't had a meltdown yet then that means it is likely yet to come. Until then (and likely after) expect shutting down, emotional distance, avoidance with you made a "baby", and that "baby" "died", and she's likely going to need to get over that before whole-heatedly fucking you again. Are there women who can have a D&C and get right back on the cock? Certainly, but for better or worse she might not be one.

If you have never been her oak/rock before, now is not the time to try to practice being an alpha or charming jerkboy. Now is not the time to up the dread. Channel that emotionally intimate, caring beta inside you, be supportive, get this shit past you (assuming you want the best chance of turning this relationship around versus starting fresh).

If you already were u/TheFamilyAlpha then we wouldn't need this conversation. Your wife would likely still be devastated, but your frame and presence would sooth her. She would feel safe baring her soul to you and putting everything on you and knowing that everything would be okay. You wouldn't be needy or leaning on her or being an emotional vampire. At an appropriate time you could say something like "I love you babe, we will get through this, we'll try again when we're ready," and watch the relief wash over her. A good time for that would have been weeks ago and every day afterwards until it sinks in. She still likely wouldn't be down for the next usual Friday night blowjob.

realizing that what I was doing was not improving things

If what you were doing was smothering her or being needy or expecting her to make you feel better or be worried about you right now, or put out, then yes that likely didn't work, and MRP is a better way, but maxing out the complete opposite aspects (jerk/asshole/distant/aloof/dread/frame control) likely isn't what is needed right now either.

Her being out a lot more

Well, being around you doesn't make her feel better, and what you are doing probably looks exactly like punishing her for having a miscarriage, so that is likely what she feels like you are doing. Luckily she does have a friend and might pull through, versus her potentially laying in a ball in the dark for the rest of the year.

You might be able to power through this autistic-beginner-MRP style, but why, spite? Personally, I'd use your beta skills, have a conversation, address that you've been acting weird after the miscarriage, hopefully it draws out her meltdown/catharsis, and sets the stage for your ownership of a future where you are growing together, and not shutting down and growing apart like the both of you seem to be doing the past week (not that she'll expect you to follow through or appreciate it).. Obviously keep lifting and owning your shit.

I dislike armchairing this because it is an emotional molotov cocktail, and you buried the lead in one sentence, just don't push her further down the spiral if you want her to come back. A relationship might not survive this under the best circumstances, and she'll stay or go, but why push her away? We're here to save you, sometimes it is from yourself.

[–]PitchingGranite11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

What he said. My wife miscarried and had d&c this year and this is how you have to handle it.

[–]zeteomegaleio6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the correct answer. Stop being an idiot OP.

The main purpose in life for most women is to have kids. She got pregnant, probably had a million exciting thoughts and emotions about what it will be like to have this turn into a baby, might have started to think up names, etc., and instead she miscarries and all those dreams were crushed. That baby she was dreaming up literally died - both the physical one in her and the one she likely made up in her mind about how it was going to be. She physically failed as a woman and a wife.

Based on your timeline of saying she miscarried a few weeks ago and you found RP about a month ago, that means that then you came in right around the time she miscarries and Rambo'd it the fuck up.

But wait, there's more! Then you make plans this past weekend and, yes, shirked your responsibilities of making dinner without telling your wife until the day of because you wanted to hang with your friends. Maybe she was thinking you guys would have a nice time that evening or she had some hopes and plans for that night. Doesn't matter because you didn't really think about her even though you had a commitment and responsibility to make dinner, and then (gasp) she had a problem with that for some reason!

Instead of asking how long we tolerate silent treatment, ask why your wife is tolerating a retard of a husband. Of all the times to be an oak, this is it and instead you are acting like nothing happened and can't figure out why she isn't responding to your "dread" and giving you porn star sex.

Here's an idea: Try to envision a strong, confident man. Then imagine what that man would do and say to reassure his woman, to make her feel safe and secure, and to let her know that you'll both get through this and be stronger for it. What would that guy have to do for his woman to cuddle up next to him and lay her head in his chest while he has an arm around her and keeps his head held high?

Don't worry, you won't actually pull that scene off. Just try to say the kinds of things that guy would say without coming off like a total retard.

[–]lizardblizzard13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're a dick and I have no idea how you even got a woman to marry you.

[–]mack_and_the_boys12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're a prick.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (3 children) | Copy

A miscarriage can fuck a woman's head up for a bit. Being a big dumb Rambo asshole is the exact opposite of what you needed to be doing those last few weeks. You needed to be smothering her in comfort after a traumatic event like that.

But that ship has sailed, so just focus on yourself and ignore her stupid silent treatment game.

[–]BobbyPeru9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Or I can leave work early and catch her before she leaves to confront her and show dominance

This isn't showing dominance. It's showing your frame cracking.

You dreaded her by going out, and now she's trying to show her little beta who the dread master is.

Take the opportunity to focus on your hobbies, social life, lifting, sidebarring... instead of getting all caught up in her little game. You have ONEitis, and the cure for ONEitis is to get busy.

You say you are OI, but you're not. You're obsessed by her little dread game.. It takes a lot of hard work and time to become OI, which is an internal state. Get busy. Don't say anything about what she's doing. That's exactly what she wants - her beta to crack... Or she wants to see if you are really changing.

Did I mention get busy yet? Go do stuff yourself. Enjoy life.

If you're still pissed, take it out on lifting heavy objects.

[–]innominating4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

His wife is running MRP on him. Her "no thanks" answer is exactly what I would have said in that situation.

[–]drty_prRed Beret7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

You sound like a butthurt little baby about wanting your wife to be home instead of going out. Guess why she wants to go out? Because she knows you care. If you truly don't care that she is going out, she won't go out. But you care a lot. Your post is oozing in carez. (also the fact you need to tell us you know where she is shows you're concerned about where she is)

I guarantee you thought by going out with your buddies and not making supper on the night you normally make supper, you were thinking "oh man, I'm going to dread the shit out of her here". I also bet you didn't tell her until it was late enough in the day on Sunday (because you don't have the frame to have that fight with her for too long) that dinner now became an inconvenience to her. If Sunday was your night to cook, you should have either had dinner arranged for her or givin her ample time to plan accordingly. She was probably stressed because dinner now became her problem. So she feelz as though it's your fault that she feelz that way.

I know you think that you can just un-pussy yourself over the course of a few weeks. Doesn't happen like that man. She needs to prove through a whole series of tests that these chages are for real and not just a phase her little lap dog is going through.

Plus your showing results after 3 weeks of lifting? Come on on man. Being honest with us is the equivalent of being honest with yourself, because nobody on her gives 2 fucks about you outside of this subreddit.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

TLDR: Lift, give less fucks.

[–]H0USE0FW0LVES5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

dude, you need to throw up the red pill before you drive your wife away. the red pill ruins relationships.

[–]chachaChad2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stay calm. Do not confront her. You don’t need to becuase you’re an oak. Why would an oak be upset? I agree w others here to get busy but be sure not to be an angry beta about that. I’d focus on handling your shit around the house. Since everything is your responsibility, there must be plenty to do.

Let her answer you with one word answers. Just be calm, nice you. Don’t not suck up but do not break. She’ll come around once she burns herself out.

[–]Red-Curious2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll just leave this here ...

[–]amph58162 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy fucking shit dude, she just lost her child and you're whining about how she hadn't had sex with you for a few weeks. Stop being such a selfish lil bitch and show her some support.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey dude. Please, seriously consider getting a vasectomy. People like you shouldn't breed. For the sake of your future children.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have received a lot of great advice here. The only thing I would add is instead of reading Married Man Sex Life Primer next, read The Way of the Superior Man instead. I think you will find it contains a big piece of what you're missing right now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

first of all, its outcome independence, not indifference. think about it

[–]colmatterson0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The miscarriage is definitely a huge emotionally traumatic event in a woman's life. It sounds like it happened shortly after you "red-pilled" (since you say you started last month and the miscarriage happened a few weeks ago). Look at things from her perspective. I don't know how dramatic your personal change has been, you do say that you overdid "the jerk". So to her, her husband of 4 years suddenly changes drastically and she has a miscarriage. She's probably finding it especially difficult to communicate to you because you're suddenly not the person you have been for the entirety of your relationship!

I am a "no-pill". I don't identify as either a blue pill or a red pill. I try to take what I like and what makes sense to me from whatever side I hear it from. My advice to you is that working on personal improvements is a great thing. Lifting, becoming more assertive, shedding what you believe to be your "beta"-traits. All good stuff, definitely. But what is more important to you right now? Your relationship with your wife or your relationship with yourself? It's a hard question to answer, because both are very important. To have good relationships with others you obviously have to be in a good place with yourself. Think of the timing, though. Your wife is going through some very heavy stuff right now. Right now, she might need you to be YOU. I mean, the person that SHE knows YOU to be.

I'm not saying to not work on yourself. I don't know what your reasons for red-pilling are. If it was because you feel a lack of respect as a man from your wife, then obviously that's something that you need to fix within yourself before you can be a person that can help her. If she doesn't respect you, you won't be able to help her. I would honestly say that she needs emotional support right now. Firing back at her silent treatment with one of your own will only further a divide between you two, one that might not be able to be fixed.

This study claims that couples are 22% more likely to break up following a miscarriage. Combine that with the figure that 40% of first marriages fail to reach fifteen years, and you're at a scary probability for losing your relationship. I think it's pretty well-known that a miscarriage or a still-birth often leads to a break-up, so I was only including the statistics in case it isn't commonly accepted knowledge. The point to that is how an increasingly-widening gap between you two can lead to a separation without the ability for reconciliation.

You ask, "when do you decide enough is enough?". Unfortunately, that isn't something the "victim" of a silent treatment can determine. I know a lot of the members here would say differently, but even if you force it to end, it doesn't fix the problem that started it in the first place. I would say that it would make it worse, because it would show her that you don't care. That you're being selfish about her feelings. I'm articulating this poorly... Look, the end-result of this is just that I think now is the time that you need to show her your channels of communication. Be up front with her about what you're doing. You don't have to say, and in fact, you damn sure SHOULDN'T say that you are red-pilling, but at least tell her that you have become dissatisfied with who you are. You want to make improvements to yourself, you want to become more assertive, stronger, more confident, etc. Whatever your reasons for red-pilling are. Explain to her that you don't accept a silent treatment and that you won't give in to such a sub-standard tactic for emotional abuse. I would tell her that, "you may feel like not speaking to me or answering my questions will lead me to, what, respecting your feelings and emotions, thoughts and opinions more? But it won't. I see that you are suffering, and I don't know how to help. I can't know unless you open your channels of communication with me. In the mean time, I want to make sure you know that MY channels of communication are open. I'm going to the gym, and I'm going to try to be more assertive and confident, because what I believe is that by becoming a stronger man, I will be able to support you better in the future."

I think that's what I would say, something along those lines. You explain that you acknowledge her silent treatment. You acknowledge it, but you don't accept it. You don't accept it because it isn't helpful. You explain your reasons for red-pilling without calling it as such because you want her to understand why you haven't been "yourself" recently. You explain that you are doing so for [Insert your reasons here], and (if this is true) that the reason is because you want to be a stronger pillar of support for her. A good husband to your wife. If that is true, of course.

I wouldn't double-down on indifference because, as you said, "she could go on weeks like this, if nothing changes." Doubling down on a position of indifference ensures that nothing will change, and the gap between you two will undoubtedly widen. In light of her recent miscarriage, I think it's important right now that she knows she can still depend on you, that she can communicate with you and lean on you for emotional support. I wouldn't forcibly restrict, or even try to forcibly restrict, what she does by going out and such. Make statements like how it is very important to you that she doesn't go out an a particular night. But that's only if you plan on doing something with her instead. You asked her to reschedule her night out, but for what? What did you plan on doing with her that she should reschedule? Taking time out for just the two of you would be a great thing. After the miscarriage especially. Have some quality intimate time together. If sex happens or not shouldn't even be a concern, what I think should be most important as an alpha man is that she sees and respects you as such. The fact that she rejects rescheduling and gives you the silent treatment shows that right now, she does not see or respect you as a strong, dependable male figure. I think I've gone on long enough, I'd be happy to clarify anything if you have questions, because I don't feel like I spoke my thoughts very well. It's a difficult situation, for sure, and I wish you and your wife the best.

As u/simbarlion said, "Put your game on the back burner for a bit." Right now, you and her have more important things to focus on.

[–]suddenlystevie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just don't be a dick, and stop thinking about your genitals.

[–]Shesieona0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She is very, very likely still bleeding, which can go on for 6 weeks, and possibly still passing clots, and your stupid ass doesn't get why you aren't having extra chunky porn sex. Just. Die. Already.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

To answer your question: neither.

Be the oak.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

She's dreading you and you're letting it happen.

Give less fucks about where she's going for how long.

Did you give her enough warning that you wouldn't be making dinner? If so, you OYS. If not, you steered the ship to the edge of an oncoming squal and handed her the tiller at the last second and went below deck.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

How long do you guys tolerate silent treatment? When do you decide enough is enough? I am pretty sure she could go on weeks like this, if nothing changes.

You're still of the mindset that she is the prize. She's giving you the silent treatment because in her mind she thinks, "I'll show him! He'll be itching to talk to me and make it better!" And you are. /u/BobbyPeru hit the nail on the head, you're in her frame.

The reason you're in her frame is you give too many fucks. You're a controlling manipulative little fucker. When she got mad for not having dinner ready, you gave too many fucks. When she gave you the silent treatment you gave too many fucks. When she went about her business you tried to make her come home, because you give too many fucks! Stop giving a fuck.

If my wife flipped out because I didn't make her dinner, I would laugh at her, because she's a silly little girl. When my wife gives me the silent treatment I ignore that shit; it's like it doesn't even exist.

Eventually she breaks down, she always breaks down. She'll try to pull me in one last time with a "Well! Aren't you even going to say something?"

Sometimes I fuck with her, "What I didn't even notice?!?"

Sometimes I make her feel bad, "Well if you want to behave like a child I wasn't going to reward it."

And sometimes I just acknowledge and move on, "Hey you have your feelings and I figured I'd let you get through them."

Remember, you are the oak in the storm. You sway, and bend but you never break while she blows and wears herself out. All it takes is outlasting it once. Just once.

[–]markpf73-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Do you have kids at home that you are taking care of? Just go out and be awesome regardless of her if you're not bound by little kids. Why are you sitting home like a little beta bitch?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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