How to Maintain Frame and what is it?

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olive_quill
August 8, 2017
7 upvotes
askMRP

About me

Married for 8 years, together for 10. 3 kids. Actively started changing my life using what I've read in the side bar on the 13 of July 2017. Lifting 4x week, 6'1" at 19.3% BF. Read MMSLP, NMMNG and WISNIFG. I am reading MMSLP again.

Issue

I am having a hard time understanding frame. I am interpreting frame is how one carries themselves emotionally and how they behave. Like a set of rules or thought processes that you feel will bring the most control over what you can control. Yet, it also appears that frame may also change from situation to situation (my frame with my kids is different from frame I have when I speak with my boss). To further complicate things is frame is also based on your MAP. I've seen post trying to explain the different pillars that comprise frame (emotional, physical, etc).

My questions

  • Is frame an unifying set of principles that is applied universally for any event that you may experience. For example, applying the philosophy of Stoicism when dealing with family, kids, career and relationships? Or is frame a compartmentalized set of behaviors that you selected, that may adjust depending whatever event happens. For example, your MAP says you'll be more assertive, so the way you act assertively with your kids is much different when you act assertively to your boss.

  • How does your frame relate to your MAP?

  • On a personal note, when dealing with my wife I do try to act less butthurt. When I was really nervous about a medical procedure, but I acted confident and cracked jokes about it and made her laugh. Because of this when I initiated sex she was happy to participate. But I act butthurt all the time at work and with my kids. What practices or directions do you all suggest?


Post Information
Title How to Maintain Frame and what is it?
Author olive_quill
Upvotes 7
Comments 18
Date 08 August 2017 02:02 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205712
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6saet6/how_to_maintain_frame_and_what_is_it/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
butthurtMAPWISNIFGframeliftassertiveNMMNG
Comments

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

From Rollo's essay...frame is the reality, the set of rules if you will, that you operate under.

Say we go to have a conversation you and me. I like to argue, I like to ruffle your feathers, I like to make statements to get you to defend yourself and beg me for forgiveness.

You...Probably don't like to do those things. So you walk in the door to our appartent later than usual and dinner, which you usually make us, is now late. I lay into you: "Where have you been?!"

If you Defend, Excuse, Explain, or Rationalize your behavior, if you take me seriously, if you argue, get your feathers ruffled at my attitude, you are operating in my reality...according to my rules. My frame.

If you remain calm, if you don't care, or if you make a joke because you think I'm bring irrational and it humors you, you have rejected my frame and are operating in yours.

I, then, do not necessarily have to take that rejection. I can say "You think this is a joke?! You always do this!" And that simply shows that I'm unwilling to or dont trust operating in your frame. It's not an offense to you, just a barometer of where you rank in my eyes.

Or, I could calm down, apologize, and through some witchcraft amnesia completely forget what I just said and act submissive and want you to fuck me later...which is good. Reinforce that behavior, and fuck me later.

No homo.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or, I could calm down, apologize, and through some witchcraft amnesia completely forget what I just said and act submissive and want you to fuck me later...which is good. Reinforce that behavior, and fuck me later.

Dude, I think I just filled the cup

[–]TrenGod370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you should never apologize unless necessary. That would also be entering her frame. Admitting you did something wrong

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ever seen the cliche image of a movie director holding his two hands up to make a square and he peers through it to see how a shot will look? Maybe he doesn't like what he sees so he gets down low and does it again...then he hops up and gets another angle until he he gets the exact angle and look he wants out of the image before him. He's framing the shot. He sees an image before him and he's reconstructing his view of it until his mental vision of it matches what he actually wants to see.

Frame is similar here. There is always something before you. You get the choice of how you want to frame the event.

Is there a catastrophic emergency in front of you? Do you lose your shit or reframe the event in a manner where you take control and get you and yours safe?

Is your wife picking at you constantly? Do you get butt hurt? Or do you decide to play with her some by joking with some agree and amplify...or do just remove your attention and instead do something you enjoy?

Your kids acting up? Do you lose your mind and scream at them? Or do you look for the underlying problem and use this moment as an opportunity to actually help them, bond with them, and build trust that you will always be there for them?

Frame the world's events before how you want to see them. Frame them in a manner that is beneficial to your well being and your ultimate interests. When you lose frame...then the events around you are shaping the shot..shaping you...and no good director would allow that.

[–]hystericalbonding6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Frame has origins in social science. It involves either thought processes or communication about reality. You want others to step into your reality - your way of perceiving and interacting with the world. This can be an effective way to influence people and to exert your will on the world around you.

The red pill expands and sometimes abuses the term, but the basic idea is the same. The red pill dogma itself is a good example of framing - the feminine imperative, hypergamy, shit tests, etc... None of these are new ideas, but framing them this way clicks for many guys.

On the communication side, How to Win Friends and Influence People has some practical examples for one-on-one communication inspired by sales tactics.

As for thought processes, aside from the sidebar and the posts linked by others in this thread, hang around, follow some of the endorsed contributors, and you'll get a sense of what frame means. Pay special attention to guys like weakandsensitive, who have a strong frame and also enjoy testing others.

[–]askmeanything24 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Have you read this:

https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

[–]olive_quill[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I've read it but I was confused. I understand Frame is a subconscious framework of some sort, but how does one build it and remove yourself from another persons frame. Do we consciously decide act confident in situations and therefore our Frame changes?

[–]askmeanything21 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

It's not a subconscious framework, in the background, it's there

Here's an example, reply to this question:

Are you a pussy?

[–]olive_quill[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I am not.

But my actions typically say different.

[–]askmeanything23 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

See now you are in my frame, where I have a reality that you might be a pussy

Now if we tried that on Rollo, he normally goes STFU/change topic if you tried to break his frame, but if engaged he might:

Me: Rollo, you are the biggest pussy!

Rollo: I think this is a classic case of projection

and now we have a frame battle

Once one imposes frame, their reality defines the interaction

Current US politics are all about frame battles

[–]NightFire450 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You stepped right into that one.

[–]olive_quill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm suppose to lie?

[–]2ndalRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/62awdg/a_practical_guide_to_building_frame/

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Think of your frame as a iron vault. Inside this vault are: your best interests, emotions, career aspirations, desires, personal goals, etc.

If anyone breaks into your vault and affects the contents inside, your frame is weak and needs to be refortified.

How do you make your frame stronger?

TRP- Time. Reading. Practice.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

black and white.

Do you join in a gang rape by being convinced it's ok, turn your back from disgust or fight to death to fend others off of the victim ?

Do you let others dissuade your action and choices ?

So you get married, you go to the store, Mrs leads the cart you are following and she states we are going to use Tide laundry detergent because it's on sale, but you are allergic to it....

1 of your children and you cannot have penicillin under no uncertain terms but the doctor tells you to try it on the other child. Go along or vehimintly appose ?

What is your mission ? What have you settled for and wish to change ? Why ?

When you no say no, you should state it like, not only no, but hell no (and I will not be disuaded)

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The most central part of frame is to be perfectly ok with how your actions and desires inconvenience and annoy other people. There's more to it than that, but if you can internalize that you're well on your way to strong frame.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/6r0q3e/frame_as_an_assertive_social_tool_instead_of_a/dl2hp8f/?context=3

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A homeless person asks you for a dollar. You refuse. The homeless person begins to argue with you about it. What do you do? Do you try to convince the homeless person that you are right? Do you give in and give him a dollar? Would you spend a couple hours of your day debating it? Are you going to be up at night thinking about it?

The answer is none of those things. You are going to continue on doing what you are doing because it's just a waste of time to do otherwise. The homeless man has zero power over you and it's not worth your time, emotions or thoughts to debate the point.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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