SO is bitchy and disrespectful too often, should I leave?

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July 24, 2017

First of all, I'm not married, but I think this is a better forum for this question than AskTRP. I used to think I might marry this girl (not so sure anymore), so I think it's relevant. You might help save my future marriage.

We're around 30 years old (her 27, me 31) and in a relationship for a year.

Good signs:

  • We often go on weekend getaways. She trusts me to plan them and doesn't want to know where we're going -- she wants to be surprised. On those trips, she's pleasant and follows my lead.
  • Sex is good and frequent. She initiates blow jobs. I manhandle her in bed and she likes it.
  • She's going to the gym and says she has to lose weight for me.
  • She cooks for me, even at my place.
  • When she's on bad behavior, instead of getting angry I hold my frame and distance myself a bit. She senses that and tries to win me back with nice behavior.

Bad signs:

  • She disrespects me fairly often. I've noticed she's also disrespectful to her parents, but mostly to her father. Her parents are a dysfunctional couple -- her mother makes more money than the father and he's just going around the house angry. Oh, and she cheated on him about 10 years ago. I don't want to end up like them, but my SO resembles her bitchy mother too much. Last year I told her that negativity and disrespect is not okay, then reminded her a couple months ago -- it has improved but it's still too much by my standards. It took her very long time admitting this, see the next point.
  • More importantly, she has trouble admitting mistakes. I actually don't know a single woman who can admit mistakes easily, but this one is slightly above average. It's exactly as in this bit by Bill Burr: Whenever she does something bad, she tries to counter-attack instead. I am very stoic and handle those as Bill says -- I see that I won while she's trying to find excuses or things that I did.

Even though there are many good things in the relationship, I too often don't want to be around her. That might be fine in a casual relationship but I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life. And I sure don't want to end up like her parents.

Part of me just wants to leave this relationship and part of me wants to try fixing it for one last time.

Do you think it's worth trying or beyond repair? Her becoming an exact copy of her mother scares me as hell.

Post Information
Title SO is bitchy and disrespectful too often, should I leave?
Author whypancakes
Upvotes 8
Comments 35
Date 24 July 2017 05:41 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

of course you should leave a disrespectful woman

or are the blow jobs worth it?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I needed to hear this.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

thats all your issues boiled down to the core. blowjobs for disrespect.

[–]askmeanything26 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

if he gets married the disrespect will end

wait, maybe the BJs end

well one of them will end

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ooh! Ooh! I know which one will end! Should we tell him or let him find out for himself? I am assuming he never heard the old joke about wedding cake....

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing gets better after you get married, without massive effort.

Whatever you did to get her, you will have to do to keep her.

Whatever you don't like about her now, you will come to loathe during marriage.

This is why you date.

Plate her and continue looking for marriageable material.

Yeah, and good luck with that.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Even though there are many good things in the relationship, I too often don't want to be around her.

Wait till that ring gets on the finger, then you'll really see her true colors.

Most men go their entire lives without coming to that realization.

Many men realize it "way too late".

You have answered your own question and you aren't even tied down to this woman.

Marriage is 24/7 "for life".... Why lock yourself down with someone you admittedly don't want to be around?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well said. I should have just read what I just wrote.

[–]Red-Curious5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

She will become just like her mom if you end up acting just like her dad. Be different from her dad and you'll get a different result. It's that simple.

Strong, but odd frame - Is the relationship salvageable? Absolutely. But it sounds to me like you don't know how to invite her into your frame. If I take you for your word, I'm guessing you've built a strong frame, but she has a pretty strong frame too. More likely than not, your frame isn't square like most frames, it's got all kinds of jigs and jags. Her frame also has those same jigs and jags, but in reverse, so that way you can both stand in your own frames, close enough to touch, but without forcing either one of you to buckle.

To put it another way, you've developed a strong frame, but the boundaries of your frame aren't shaped the way you want. As a result, the life you're framing inside doesn't have smooth edges; it just looks kinda weird. No picture looks good with a jagged frame, no matter how strong and well-crafted that jagged frame may be. You need it to be shapely and ornate, like it was built by a master craftsman who pays attention to minute detail.

Get a new frame; forget fixing the old one - Here's the thing: it's much easier to break the frame you've got and buy a new one than it is to whittle or smelt the old one into proper shape. Can it be done? Yes. But it's going to take a lot of time and my guess is that if you want an LTR, you don't want to wait as long as it'll take for the whittling/smelting process to finish to find out if she is willing to drop her jagged frame in exchange for your new, better one. In theory, she'd be dumb not to trade up that way, but the hamster can spin the wheel some other direction and it might not work out. You're better off tossing what you've worked on and just implement a new frame now.

Invite her into your frame; don't just fortify it - I read an old post once by /u/jacktenofhearts that chewed out a guy for building a titanium frame that wouldn't buckle under any circumstances, but he forgot to put pillows and blankets inside to make her comfortable once she got in. When you get your new frame, make sure you're staging it like you want someone to live inside.

You can't just approach her one day and say, "This is how it's going to be from now on. You're welcome to do things my way and get a great life as a result; but if not, here's the door." That's a quick way to weed out someone, but you're more often going to lose the baby with the bath water when you do that.

If she's looking for marriage, that's akin to apartment shopping. Doing a walkthrough of a barren, empty apartment isn't very appealing. When the apartment is staged for being live-in ready, people can already visualize what long-term life will be like there. This warm, inviting nature will make her want to move into that place rather than staying at her current apartment until she finds something better.

Also, if the apartment is empty, if she does buy into it she's doing so because of what she envisions the place is like. That means she might rest in your frame, but she's doing it in her vision of what your frame looks like. You're losing a lot of control there, and if you try to take it back you're going to get a lot of resistance and she might ultimately conclude, "I signed up for what I thought resting in your frame would look like. Obviously I misunderstood that. I'm gone."

If it helps give context, I envision the frame itself as being all of your alpha traits. The interior decorating is all your beta traits. You're saying, "I'm the leader. I have boundaries and expectations. If you follow those boundaries and expectations, this is the type of love, affection, and sap you can expect from me. It may not be the sap you want, but it's what this oak produces." Then, let her decide if she wants what you have to offer or not. Once you've got that lovely ornate frame and that oak frame is oozing delicious sap that women want to lap up, you'll probably find better options anyway. In that regard, be happy you're not married yet - you still have an easier time keeping these options open.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can you give an example of someone breaking their old frame and getting a new one? If someone is lifting, has a good career, good social skills, big social circle, a lot of confidence, success with women -- what exactly is it they have to throw away and rebuild?

[–]Red-Curious3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those are all things that give your frame strength. They aren't the shape of your frame. The shape of your frame is determined by your expectations. For example, a guy who has a massive paycheck has a strong frame; but if he doesn't spend that paycheck to improve his life circumstances, it's pretty uncomfortable inside that frame. Consider ...

Weak, Uninviting Frame - Overweight, addicted to video games and porn, no friends, socially jaded so he demands to get his way all the time, makes unreasonable requests, is extremely lewd, has a crap job and lives in a crap apartment.

Strong, Uninviting Frame - Physically fit, great job, strong confidence, large social circle, but lives with his parents, bosses people around all the time, and is consistently emotionally distant.

Weak, Inviting Frame - Most beta marriages ... Great listener, provides material comforts, even if it means living above his means, helps his SO whenever she needs it, will go out of his way to please her, in an argument he's usually the one to apologize and give in

Strong, Inviting Frame - He doesn't need his SO, but he loves having her around. He has lots of friends, a great job, is physically fit, and knows how to say no to his SO. He commands respect wherever he goes. People like to be around him because he's just and fair, he's witty, he's generous, and people just like to be around him because his awesomeness radiates from within and makes them want to be a little more awesome too.

Wherever you are on the weak/strong - un/inviting matrix, there are also the particulars about your frame. For example, before discovering RP I had a moderate-strength frame. It wasn't weak, but it wasn't strong. That said, even where I was strong, I had accounted for my wife's wishes and desires in the decisions I had made more than I should have. As such, I wouldn't back down from things when I made a decision, no matter how much she whined ... but my decisions usually tended more toward her favor than I would have liked. This made us both upset because I wasn't experiencing life the way I wanted and she was still getting shut-down without seeing me experience the internally radiant alpha glory. So, passing tests meant squat when I still wasn't happy with the result I had chosen.

The thing is: I was the idiot who chose to set the line in a bad spot and then build a bunker there.

A good example: She would make suggestions on how to fix up the house. I disagreed, but came up with my own ideas that incorporated many of her ideas, even ones I didn't like. Why? Because I thought I was honoring her. We'd then set that plan in motion, despite her frustrations of not getting her way. Then, when it was done, we had a house that neither of us really wanted. It was a symbol of unholy compromise - that both sides were losers, not a balance between winners.

So, at some point I said, "Screw it. You're right, our oven handle is falling off and the dishwasher is leaking all the time. We do need to get new appliances." She goes through a couple stores and picks out these super expensive ones with all the bells and whistles. That would have been a colossal waste of money. I had a budget of $1,500 on the two appliances combined, she was looking at that much for each of them (i.e. $3,000 total). Old me would have tried to compromise: "Okay, I'll meet you in the middle at $2,250, but I'm going no further." I'd then hold that line and not budge no matter how much she whined and gave me dirty eyes. At the end of the day, I'd be upset for over-spending so we can have a couple extra knobs we never turn and buttons we never push.

Now, when this situation happened (literally just yesterday) I left her at home, took the kids with me, picked out a pair of appliances within my budget, texted her pictures, saying, "These are what I'm getting. take a quick look and let me know if there's anything glaring that I forgot about." She texted back saying the oven wasn't a convection oven - she was right, that was pretty darn important and I forgot to check if it had that feature. I picked out a new one and sent the pic, she said it seemed fine, but obviously wanted more bells and whistles. I bought the one I picked out anyway. Afterward, she's breathing easy because she has new appliances that actually work and are significant improvements from what we had before, and she didn't have to go through the stress of picking them out or trying to convince me into buying them. They're not exactly what she wanted, but she respects the fact that I made a decision, set a boundary, and didn't cave to her.

So, an example of re-doing your frame:

  • My old frame was defined by compromise and had a $2,250 boundary.

  • My new frame was defined by me and had a $1,500 boundary.

Despite the fact that the result was further away from the $3,000 boundary my wife was proposing, she was actually much happier with me setting a clear boundary and getting the job done. As my frame develops in strength and she learns to respect it, I will soon be able to delegate tasks to her on my terms. For example, I could send her to the story and say, "Go buy a new oven and dishwasher, but don't go over $1,500" and she'd do it. Six months ago, if I tried that she would have come home with $3,000 spent and lots of excuses why it was a great idea.

Now, you need to decide whether or not you're living the life you actually want to live and with the boundaries you actually want. Account for her desires less and less. As much as I hate to say it, one of the biggest parts of unplugging for me was accepting the fact that women don't know what they want and they have no clue what will make them happy. Even if you cater to them and give them everything they say, they will still not be happy. Period. So, if they don't know what makes them happy, and me catering to them makes me unhappy, then the only rational option is for me to do what I want to do and let her come along for the ride. If she's happy, great. If she's not, it's not like I have any better ideas in the first place.

The one caveat is that we do know what makes women unhappy. If you cheat on them, they will be unhappy. If you beat them, they will be unhappy. If you pick your nose and scratch your crotch next to them in public, that will make them unhappy. If you are consistently emotionally distant, they will be unhappy. So, if you want a woman to rest inside your frame, make sure you're not decorating your frame with things that will make them unhappy.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think I saw that episode of This Old House. Was pretty good; would recommend.

[–]Red-Curious0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm confused. What episode of what?

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have good material to work with. Though I suspect once she has the ring everything will stop.

I too often don't want to be around her.

I've been saying it lately. If there's a feeling in your guts you're going to be kicked in the nuts.

Your instincts are there for a reason.

Still....for further pondering.

This situation is all too familiar. It was me. Is me. Whatever. I've lived this. As others have pointed out your red flag is the respect for men. It's not just the future FIL or you. It's men in general. Yet this won't get "fixed" it's your decision but to handle this shrew you're going to alpha up and put that gas pedal to the floor and never let up.

There are two things I believe.

  • Some women cannot be lead. They refuse it because of their upbringing and feminism being ingrained deeply into them. Can it be over come? Sure....which brings me to:

  • Alphas most likely won't have time nor the inclination to take on a project such as a woman like this. Why bother? When there are women that want an Alpha male.

So the decision is yours. Either way though you need to get to work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If there's a feeling in your guts you're going to be kicked in the nuts. Your instincts are there for a reason.

Yes, trust your nuts, or you will give them away.

[–]QuickieStart0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

An analogy from the world of hiring and firing: Imagine you wake up tomorrow and she's gone for good from your life. What's your very first reaction or feeling? That's your gut. Go with it.

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do you think it's worth trying or beyond repair? Her becoming an exact copy of her mother scares me as hell.

Yeah this is very possible, i´ve seen it happen over and over.

One year in and she´s already a disrespectful cunt, is a bad bad sign. She should be shit scared of losing you and thankful to have snatched such a high quality man as you (are you?) She seems entitled, and not admitting mistakes is also a bad sign. And her idea of a relationship is what she has seen of her mother and father, a strong independent woman with a sitcom dad. Im guessing you dont want to be sitcom dad, so dont act like one.

Part of me just wants to leave this relationship and part of me wants to try fixing it for one last time.

If you had been here long enough you would know that there is no "fixing the relationship", this is beta bullshit. You can fix and improve yourself, and a possible side effect of that is your relationship improving. She may follow or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I can only fix myself. Thanks for the reminder about the "fixing the relationship" bullshit.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Set the bar low and you'll spend a lifetime tripping over it.

Refine your screening process.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly, if you are dealing with bullshit BEFORE you are "locked in", NOPE the fuck out of this relationship. Seriously, even most shitty women are able to hold it together until you are married. There is a near 0% chance she will improve after you are married.

But, we all know you are going to disregard everybody's advice and move forward. Looking forward to your victim puke in a few years!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hope I won't disregard your advice!

[–]atlhartRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

As always, bunch of dudes who don't get it talking about your woman like that matters at all.

The only question that matters: what about you means your next relationship would be any different? If you aren't going to improve, stay with her and accept your fate. At least there are blow jobs.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Golden Rule- Look @ the future MIL That is where she will be if you let it

You don't talk about lifting, sidebar reading or any improvements

"Part of me just wants to leave this relationship and part of me wants to try fixing it for one last time."

Only you can answer this salient statement Lot's of good advice Don't stay or leave without all the facts sorted in your mind

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am sure you appreciate that the "good points" she has now result from her trying to get you to commit, and once you do, her incentive to please you dramatically diminishes. Meanwhile, those bad points won't go away.

Whenever she does something bad, she tries to counter-attack instead.

I don't know a single woman who does not do this.

Her becoming an exact copy of her mother scares me as hell.

What points of similarity are there between you and her dad?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know her dad that well. We have the same hobbies, but that's irrelevant here.

Of course I try to avoid doing everything bad he does: getting angry for no reason, letting others treat him poorly, not being a leader in the relationship. But everyone who's been in a couple of relationships and reads TRP/MRP knows that.

Right now I don't know if there are any similarities between us and I'd have to think about it. It's a good idea though.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't want to end up like them

OYS and do the work to be the man you want to be. If she doesn't want to come along for the ride to awesomeness, leave her in the dust.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


I was going to explain. But I did not want to write you a book that I don't think you will read, much less follow anyway.


[–]TonkaXcranK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Her lack of respect for you is a by product of your lack of respect for yourself. She can walk over her own Father, she sure as hell will always walk over you. Improve, lift, respect, and as a by product (not the purpose of improvement) you'll have better relationships if that's what you seek, and general improved life. Listen to these wise moderators that are here.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This is a clear, easily enforced boundary. Instead of leaving, why not enforce your boundary?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I enforced boundaries from early on in the relationship, but she doesn't respect them and I have to remind her too often.

Example: on one of our recent trips we've been making a lot of photos. She was giving me shit about the bad photos I make of her and that I'm a bad photographer. I then stopped making photos of her and instead focused on the landscape.

Later on I took more than 10 photos of a mountain in the distance. She shit-tested: "You took more photos of this mountain today than of me". My response: "Yes, because the mountain is not nagging me". The next two hours she was visibly nervous and was trying to be very pleasant and feminine.

Two weeks later she's nagging me again, so much that I left the house and went hiking with friends.

As others have said, fixing her might be a very long project that I'm not willing to participate in. It's not worth it.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeh. Like I said if you have gas pedal down she listens. If you want to live like that go ahead but I have doubts she’ll ever get it. She only listens to a firm hand and only while that hand is present. Once away she lets herself go.

[–]2235520 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Her marriage model is, angry wife, submissive husband. That is all that she knows, and will try to play it out in her own marriage (subconsciously..) You are picking it up early on, and I think if you set clear boundaries, she will tests you for a while, but then will understand the new dynamic, and may settle down, but any sign of weakness, and she will test you again.

I married a woman like that, minus the sex frequency, minus the blowjobs, minus pleasantness even on trips. I discovered MRP 13 years later... So, as you can see, your woman is not special, and there is a very high chance of getting similar woman again. Therefore, work on yourself, and set clear boundaries.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks everyone for your advice. I thought about it and this is what I'm going to do. I'm writing it here so that I feel more accountable.

I can only change myself and not her. I think a break-up is coming, but if I improve myself I'll be better off once it's over. If my changes bring up a change in her, good. I doubt they will, though.

My plan for the next weeks:

  • I'll do one more strength session weekly (now 3) instead of one cardio.
  • I'll be turning the messaging app we use on silent for as long as it allows (1 week). I typically set it on silent for 8 hours each morning when I come to work, but it's not enough. She writes constantly throughout the day and it's too disturbing. We should be communicating in person more.
  • I think I have 1 kg (2 pounds) of fat hiding my abs. Employing strict fasting regime to take it off. Also, I'm 1-2 kg over my normal weight.
  • Nofap for as long as I can manage. I know this is controversial, but the 90-day challenge was the best thing I've done in my adult life.
  • Enforce 2 boundaries on things which I haven't before. Based on previous experience, she would respect that for 2 weeks and then return back to old behavior, but whatever.
  • Read side bar again.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why half ass it? This is a solid start to a MAP. Just go all i in already and develop a full MAP.

Either way you go that is your path. Fuck her.

[–]TonkaXcranK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm sensing his apprehension. (Might misunderstand it as going full Rambo). Solid need for a Full MAP though.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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