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To Confront, or Not to Confront. That is the question.

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July 11, 2017
9 upvotes

I could easily bore you and write a very long post. But I’m going to keep this as concise as possible. I’m happy to fill in blanks if needed.

Me Been lurking here for about 6 months. Completed sidebar includes: Rational Male, WISNIFG, NMMNG, MMSLP. Had a recent lull in reading and need to step it up again with sidebar. Lifting 3 days/wk pretty consistently for 9 months. Good gains in muscle mass and lift numbers. Really dialed in my diet over the past month. Feeling and looking the best I have in a while.

Background 39 y/o married to 39 y/o wife for 9 years. 3 small kids, including one infant. She is a HB 8.5. I’m around a 7. Wife “checked out” almost 2 years ago. It was my wake up call to change my shitty ways. Had a slow start, but over the past 12 months, relationship has really improved. Affection from wife towards me has returned to almost pre-dead bedroom level. Sex is still kinda Starfish and infrequent. 2x/month over the past few months. Our infant doesn’t sleep for shit. My wife is literally up 5-6 times per night with infant. She’s exhausted and it shows. I’d like to think frequency and quality would be better if she got some decent sleep, but I don’t think it would be where I want it to be.

When wife “checked out” almost 2 years ago, it was at the same time as a big move to a new home. It was also around this time I discovered some private FB messages between her and a male she saw and interacted with fairly regularly. I knew they were friends which didn’t bother me. But I had some suspicions and checked her phone. There was never anything sexual mentioned. I could just tell by my wife’s flirty tone in the messages that there was an emotional affair going on. I still don’t rule out the possibility that something physical happened, but the reality is that it’s highly unlikely due to being a SAHM with special needs children. I’m pretty sure that if it became physical, there would have been more evidence of that in the FB messages. The messages were pretty much friendly banter with a flirty tone. A lot of talk about things that were stressing her out with kids, general banter. Then this guy gave the “I love you” and my wife returned with an “I love you too”, which I know my wife would just say is a “friendly” thing, as she does say “love you” to lots of different friends and family members, but this did not sit well with me.

We ended up moving about 3 hours away. I continued to monitor messages. Initially, some of the flirty tone was still there. After a few months, the frequency of messages fizzled out to about once every 2-3 months. My wife’s tone also changed in the messages to being just more normal friend stuff, instead of the flirty tone she once had. It seemed like he would want to initiate the flirty tone and my wife would try to politely blow it off. Basically, I think what was once an emotional affair has fizzled into just a normal friendship from my wife’s perspective. This is likely due to living 3 hours away and not interacting with him on a regular basis, combined with me making improvements in myself and becoming more attractive, mentally and physically.

I was initially paranoid and monitoring every week. Now, I monitor about once per month. Over the past 9 months or so, he would initiate a FB message about once every 1-2 months. Usually, after she posts a picture where she’s looking good. He will say things like “You look so pretty in that pic”. Most recently, I discovered an exchange that took place on Father’s Day a few weeks ago. He initiated with a “You look so pretty”. They talked about some recent medical issues my son was having. He asked if she was doing ok, staying strong, yada yada…He seems to hide behind of cloak of talking about “God” and religion to come off as being righteous somehow. This most recent exchange ended with him saying “Love you”. My wife replied with “Thanks, Love you too”. He wrote back with a “Love you more!” and my wife replied with a “Lol” and that was the end of the conversation.

My Approach with all This Throughout all of this, my wife does not know that I know about this. She has no clue that I’ve read her FB messages with this guy. I received some advice from some wise men in another forum about 1.5 years ago telling me that I was not mentally ready and that I should not confront. Instead, I should work on improving myself. I believe this was the right advice for that time. Since then, our relationship and family life have really improved. She’s more affectionate with me. Makes comments about my body and physical improvements I’ve made.

However, this fucker continues to be a thorn in my side. I believe that the flirty emotions my wife had for him are gone, and it is just a friendship to her. But I do feel like I need to keep up with the situation and “trust and verify”, more than I would like to. I’d rather not have to worry about the verify part. It’s become clear to me that this dude is not gonna stop. He’s married with his own family. I’ve got a feeling my wife is not the only one he pulls this shit with.

So, I’m here to reach out to get an updated opinion on my next step. The way I see it, I have 4 options:

Option 1 Continue with sidebar and lift. Focus on me and improving. Do not “mate guard”. After all, my wife is hot and I should expect other men to hit on her.

Option2 Confront my wife on this. Ask her if it would be appropriate for me to tell another married woman that they are pretty, and that I love them through FB private messages. This comes with the price of having to tell my wife I’ve been monitoring messages for almost 2 years, which will destroy trust in me which she has recently regained.

Option 3 Confront him via FB (or drive 3 hours and do it in person), tell him to cut the shit or else. This would also have to come with me confronting my wife, as confronting him alone may not be effective and I would have to trust him to actually knock it off. Not likely

Option 4 Send his wife a FB message with screenshots of the most recent conversation I have. Ask her if she is cool with her husband saying those things to other women? Maybe she is cool with it, who the fuck knows?

The biggest thing holding me back at this point is the fact that I would have to tell my wife I’ve been monitoring her messages. Even though I feel my reasoning is justified, I think this may cause her to really feel violated and lose trust in me.

Throughout this process of self improvement, I’ve become more confident in my ability to move on if needed. I want to be married to her, but my eyes were opened up to the “oneitis” I once had and I’m confident I could happily move on if needed. 2 years ago, this was not the case.

I’d love to get the opinions of the wiser men here. Thanks.


Post Information
Title To Confront, or Not to Confront. That is the question.
Author BTed440
Upvotes 9
Comments 79
Date 11 July 2017 04:09 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205891
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6mjul1/to_confront_or_not_to_confront_that_is_the/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy

Dude wake the fuck up. Two years and you're still debating this? To me there is only one option. Instead you're staying up at night worrying about this shit. Walking on eggshells hoping just maybe she'll stop stringing along ANOTHER MAN behind your back. Do you think a real man with a backbone and some self respect would contemplate what to do here? No. He wouldn't be scared of how she'd react when confronted and you seem TERRIFIED. That's how you know you've got a lot of work to do on yourself. You're still so worried about how SHE will react to what you say to her about HER betrayal. You actually think you're somehow in the wrong here, and it really baffles me. The moment she engaged in this behavior, she lost all right to being trusted anyway...but that's not really the point.

If I were you I would sit her down and calmly state something like: "I need you to know something. And that is, I know you've been exchanging personal messages with (insert douchbag) and that he's been trying to fuck you covertly for years. I also know you've been stringing him along all this time, and doing who knows what offline. It doesn't matter what you think I did to deserve it, and anything you say about it is completely irrelevant to me. All that matters is you've violated my trust, disrespected our family and jeopardized our marriage...and it will take a long time before the damage you've done is fully repaired. But you need to know one other thing. If you ever go behind my back again with another man, you'll be moving out and never coming back."

Also: if you lose her trust in the process, at least you'll gain her respect. Damn good trade imo.

[–]BTed440[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

You're right. It's time to confront.

[–]mountainbiker1782 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm sorry you're going through this situation. I was where you are 2 years ago when I discovered my ex wife's interest in another guy. At the time I contrived her, she hasn't cheated, but the way I reacted with begging and pleading (like a pussy BP beta) drove her fully away. I divorced her a month later, which I know realize I should have done a long long time ago.

I don't know if you'll act on any of the wisdom here, because it may feel too impossible to consider divorcing her. I hope you'll seriously consider the possibility that your marriage is over and accordingly. You should do a number of things.

  1. Fully embrace RP by focusing on improving yourself and raising your SMV by being a Man women want to fuck. Begin implementing the 12 levels of Dread.

  2. Prepare for divorce. Learn how the process works. Find a lawyer. Slowly withdraw some cash for yourself. Don't bother putting it into a secret bank account because the court can find out.

  3. Confront your wife about her "cheating". If she hasn't yet, she is considering it because after youngest kid reaches 7 and is becoming more autonomous men and women do some relationship evaluation

Note: If things do go south and you find yourself looking for a fling, first promise yourself not to get into another relationship for at least 6 months, if not longer. This may be obvious to everyone, but I wish I hadn't.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If things do go south and you find yourself looking for a fling, first promise yourself not to get into another relationship for at least 6 months, if not longer. This may be obvious to everyone, but I wish I hadn't.

Great advice. If you do leave, be blameless. Trust me on that.

Also, look for a "men's rights" attorney, preferably one that breathes fire. The court and most attorney's will chew you up and spit you out - don't be a sucker.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You waited 2 years to assert yourself. Whatever issues you have with wifey don't matter until you address your inner bitch. IMO it's way past the point of confrontation, no good will come from it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good luck. Be sure to be ready for her to throw everything she's got at you, too. She might not, but hope for the best and plan for the worst...which includes accepting divorce as a possibility.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret8 points9 points  (16 children) | Copy

Of the options you mentioned there is only Option 1. Lift lead and improve yourself. The dude is a beta orbiter, treat him as such.

If you have the frame and balls, you could even fuck with him for shits and giggles. When he posts a pic of himself you could respond with the exact same words he sends to your wife. You look hot, love you.

Don't confront, that is scarcity mentality shining through. But anyway, FB is for pussies, so I wouldn't bother too much.

The big red flag. How sure are you that they didn't have a physical affair? They had motive and opportunity and the logistics to pull it off. Which leads me to ask the question.....wife possibly had an affair.....and you have an infant.....What is the timeline on this?

Never underestimate a slimy beta orbiter with a bible under his arm.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

The infant is definitely mine. No doubt. Timeline wouldn't even be close to make it a possibility of it not being my kid. In fact, we know the exact moment I didn't pull out in time while she was ovulating.

I am 95% sure that there was no physical affair. I do think that if we did not move, something physical was likely to take place. But, as others have said, he filled the emotional void I left. What started out as a shoulder to lean on in a time of need, likely led to my wife wanting more.

I'm not naive. I realize a physical affair is very possible. But, logistically, it would have been very difficult to pull off because of being a SAHM to a special needs child who she doesn't leave alone with babysitters due to special needs.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

wife possibly had an affair.....and you have an infant.....What is the timeline on this?

My thoughts as well. So you fucked her the same time guy#2 did and think it's yours. If it were me, I'd test that just for piece of mind. Also what's the time line on her coming back to you after moving? Could it simply be that you moved away from lover boy and now she sees you as her only option so it looks like things are "improving"?

Speculation all in all. Doesn't change your course to keep improving you unless the tests come back and you aren't the father. Would I confront about the messages? Not in the way some are saying. When you have the frame and balls, after you find yourself giving her a few instructions on unrelated stuff: "Need you to get that laundry put away and take the kids to X today" let this line drop: "Oh yeah, and stop your flirting with (lover boy's name)...that shit doesn't fly with me." Serious face. Walk away. When her hamster is trickle truth-ing later, don't turn it into a debate "you said this, he said thst, I think you meant this." Just keep frame and broken record. "Doesn't matter, unacceptable, don't want to see it again."

[–]BTed440[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Maybe I wasn't clear. There is zero chance of it being his kid. She got pregnant 4 months after we moved. We know exactly when the baby was conceived.

Her starting the process of coming back to me was about 3 months after we moved in 2015. Throughout 2016, things really improved between us. A direct result of making improvements in myself. I believe it is a genuine relationship improvement and not just an illusion. Reality is, if she wants to leave, she can. She's smart, hot, and funny. She could easily find other options if she really wants to.

[–]WesternhagenWinner5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reality is, if she wants to leave, she can. She's smart, hot, and funny. She could easily find other options if she really wants to.

Dude. Take the blinders off. She is 39. Her hotness and fertility have long since peaked. Moreover, she has three kids, including a special needs infant. How many men in the world do you think would sign up for such a woman with such heavy baggage? If you got divorced right now, would your first choice for a new woman be a 39 year old with three kids including a special needs infant? Mine sure wouldn't be. She could probably be some guy's plate, but the chances of her catching and keeping a quality man at this point if she lost you are very low indeed.

This is not to say that she may not think she has options, what with this FB guy slobbering on her plus you pedestalizing her. But reality would prove shockingly different.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're focusing on the wrong part of Blargs post...

Would I confront about the messages? Not in the way some are saying. When you have the frame and balls, after you find yourself giving her a few instructions on unrelated stuff: "Need you to get that laundry put away and take the kids to X today" let this line drop: "Oh yeah, and stop your flirting with (lover boy's name)...that shit doesn't fly with me." Serious face. Walk away. When her hamster is trickle truth-ing later, don't turn it into a debate "you said this, he said thst, I think you meant this." Just keep frame and broken record. "Doesn't matter, unacceptable, don't want to see it again."

Read it, and then read it again.

Do the work until you have the right frame and mindset. Then dammit, do what the man said.

[–]beta_no_mo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A DNA swab test is $300 and she doesn't have to know anything about it.

GET THE BABY TESTED.

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

logistically, it would have been very difficult to pull off because of being a SAHM to a special needs child who she doesn't leave alone with babysitters due to special needs.

In the original post you said she "saw and interacted with him fairly regularly." This was in person, not on FB, right? So the logistics of physical friendship was possible. Somehow, she was able to meet this guy and interact with him in person on a regular basis. Why then do you think the logistics of banging him was impossible? When women want to have sex, they will find a way to make it happen even in short periods of time and in unlikely places. Heck, there are women who will bring Chad to their house and have sex with him even though the kids are in the house. Hopefully your wife is not such a low-class creature but you can't rule it out just "because logistics".

[–]BTed440[S] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Thanks for the comments. I didn't say it was impossible. Just not likely. Wife is not a low-class creature to bang some guy in the house while her kids are in the Next Room. Some may claim I'm delusional about that, but there's just no way. If it became physical, it would have been when I take the kids to the playground or something like that. Trying to remain anonymous, I can't get into details about why they saw each other on a regular basis without giving it away. But during their interaction time, my wife had kids with her and they were Outdoors.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Most people here immediately jump to speculative paranoia about wives sleeping around and you're eyes are open to the possibility and if there was anything suggesting they slept together in their msgs your hamster would have picked up and run with it.

If you confront, she's likely going to re-litigate every problem and complaint she's had so run some mental arguments and think about your positions or strategy so you're clear headed, calm and in control the whole time.

Mate guarding is bad but when a real boundary is crossed and nexting isn't an option it's important to stand up for yourself. So long as you can be calm, collected and in control while you do it.

Beware though, she's exhausted right now so it likely won't go so well. Don't hide your anger, it's important she sees some fire in you, but don't let it control your thinking and remember that no matter how in the wrong she was, you know deep down you're also at fault. Remind yourself of that whenever you may start to feel overly righteous.

But I agree with others saying you should acknowledge the boundary that was crossed. And if anything like it happens in the future, you'll have to handle it with AM, etc...

Good time to ask yourself if you're really doing as much to run the family right now as you should be because that will be important moving forward.

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

if there was anything suggesting they slept together in their msgs

I think repeated "I love you" and "I love you back" qualifies.

nexting isn't an option

Nexting is always an option.

And no, I do not underrate the difficulty of doing so when you have kids.

remember that no matter how in the wrong she was, you know deep down you're also at fault.

Nope, nope, nope. Wrong frame.

ask yourself if you're really doing as much to run the family right now as you should be

Yeah he should definitely turn the choreplay up to 11, that should bring her right back into his arms (eyeroll).

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It's a special needs child in a non-toxic family. Not the same thing. Dogmatic thinking here does not help you.

Running the house doesn't mean doing all the chores, you should know this. If you have any experience with raising an infant you'd understand why that especially matters during that time period for OP getting the things he wants.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Irrelevant and counterproductive. You are just enabling his hamster to say it's his fault and he can make things better by doing more chores. If he goes in there with "I should admit I'm also at fault and I should do more to run the family" in his head (let alone, actively on the agenda for discussion) then his frame will be weak and he will fail.

If anything, his attitude in the immediate future should be that SHE should do more to placate his righteous wrath and regain his trust.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You keep mentioning chores. Again, I said running the household. Not the same thing.

None of his aspects of owning his shit have I recommended he explicitly insert into the discussion. I think you're just enjoying finding interpretations to argue about when the fact of the matter is that punishment goes hand in hand with his own improvement.

I even said that his anger needs to be visible and present but he is still in control of it. You're just looking for shit to argue about.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well then you are sorted, you have your shit together now and you know what made her vulnerable to a outside dude, so move on.

You have seen it has fizzeled out from her end so there is no worries.

By confronting her what are you hoping to gain from the exercise? Do want an admission from her? Apology? Truth?

How serious is a emotional relationship? If my wife went around telling another man she loved him it will be over for me, but then you defend her actions and say she says it to everyone. My wife has/had the annoying habit of subconsciously putting her hand on your arm when she talks to you. Anyone, man, woman or child. Basically she kino's the world. I got used to it, she does it less nowadays but I still take note when she does it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Scarcity mentality is letting shit like this slide behind your back because you're afraid of losing her by simply drawing a line in the sand.

I say the only move here is to go in guns blazing, ready to die in a hail of gun fire. The marriage might be over and he's gotta be ready to accept that if thats what happens because she's unwilling to stop or admit any wrongdoing.

Let me ask you this: what is he to do if he keeps monitoring their chats, and he notices things escalating again?

If that happens, I would say it's his fault for not doing something sooner. He can do nothing but sit back and watch his lady run off with another dude. Sticking with option 1 is passive, and continues to have him shoulder all the blame for not being "attractive enough."

Mate guarding is unattractive, for sure, which is why he shouldn't try to stop it by confronting the other guy, or the other wife. I wouldn't even tell her to stop per se, I would simply tell her that I'm aware of it and that I wouldn't tolerate it. She's free to keep doing what she's doing, and he's free to walk away. There's a difference.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When he posts a pic of himself you could respond with the exact same words he sends to your wife. "You look hot, love you."

Yes! ^ This would be one of my courses of action.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

1- she is not an HB 8 take of the goggles, pull her off the pedestal (cheating is not attractive)

2- Your frame is for shit (you are thinking you might be guilty of "imposing on trust and privacy" by verifying and you find out she is still receiving messages

You have 3 kids, one is an infant ? And, you honestly think she would feel violated if you confronted her ?

You may have read your whole list of books, but, let me explain a dose of reality, you have not made the content yours

*"This most recent exchange ended with him saying “Love you”. My wife replied with “Thanks, Love you too”. "

"and my wife returned with an “I love you too”, which I know my wife would just say is a “friendly” thing, as she does say “love you” to lots of different friends and family members, but this did not sit well with me.*

absolutely unacceptable. hard boundary crossed

Read

Read

Read chapter 27

What I would do, you wouldn't have the stomach or guts for, but then again, most men aren't me

last statement - I pray for your son and medical issues, I also pray for you to internalize the sidebar and draw some boundaries. Most importantly, for self respect. Good Luck

[–]BTed440[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks.

I agree. I have not completely internalized everything yet. I'm working on going through the books for a 2nd reading before moving on.

That being said, I know that my frame has improved and my guts might surprise you. I'm at my breaking point with this situation and some sort of action has to be taken. So, I'd love to hear what you would do, if you want to share it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy

http://womensinfidelity.com

Your wife is in stage 2, but she may have been physical. Saying "I love you" to another dude. If that is not crossing a boundary I do not know what is. Your wife feels dead inside, many here will assume that is all on you but for all I know she is simply a disloyal cunt. I do not think there is anyway to salvage a relationship where a woman has had an emotional affair. Anyway, why would you want to, she has already cheated on you. Get a girlfriend, bang a hooker, start making plans for your new single life.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

It was all on me. I feel like she was as loyal as possible during many years of me being an asshole. Started an innococent friendship with somebody, she had a shoulder to cry on that wasn't mine, then developed some feelz for this guy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

You say she is a HB8.5, this tells me you are pedestalising her. Whether it was your fault or hers there is a good chance she has already checked out. You also call the other guy "a fucker". So in your mind she is blameless because it is "all on you" or it is that "fucker". So would you feel the same way if she actually fucked the dude? Would knowledge of a physical act change your attitude or would it still be just your fault and the other guy's fault.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Point taken. I don't think she is blameless. But some of the shitty things I've done are certainly the origin of all this.

Knowldege of a physical act will result in our divorce. If I find out there was physical stuff going on, I will never see her in the same light again.

I call him a fucker because it seems like my wife is done with it. Then, once over month or two, he comes back around to reignite the fire. In person my wife shows me all the signs of wanting to continue improving our marriage and family. I feel like this guy keeps messaging her once in a while, just so he stays in her head.

[–]WesternhagenWinner5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't think she is blameless. But some of the shitty things I've done are certainly the origin of all this.

Nothing you did, or did not do, justifies her having an emotional or physical affair. Period.

I call him a fucker because it seems like my wife is done with it. Then, once over month or two, he comes back around to reignite the fire.

"Seems like". The fact of the matter is, she is not done with it. Women who are done with a man make it very, very clear. If she was done with him she'd shut his ass down in a heartbeat. Clearly she is still enjoying the attention.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If she was done with him she'd shut his ass down in a heartbeat. Clearly she is still enjoying the attention.

Yup, well said. OP just can't get his mind around it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You see for me even the emotional affair would be sufficient to end a marriage. Best of luck to you in whatever you choose. I suggest you just keep improving your SMV and keep your options open. I think you need to make sure she puts and end to her contact with this guy, it is disrespectful to you.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

She'll be done with it when she feels like she has a life outside her mom identity again. Do you get out with her and do things together without the kids?

You'll know if you need to get a divorce but it doesn't sound like you're there yet.

Confront her, shut that shit down and then realize that stick is only a short term solution, long term you need to keep improving and be the man she was dating again so that she isn't JUST a wife or mom. She is also your girlfriend.

All the other usual be seen flirting, lift, game your wife, Kino, etc... applies of course. But if you want to target what's causing her to seek emotional attention elsewhere, you'll have to focus long term on being fun and a source of "having a fun life outside the kids"

And don't do it for her or some covert contract expectation. This formula doesn't change based on the woman. That's why you have to do it for you for it to mean anything or change your personality in a real way.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You hit the nail on the head with this one. We have not had a date out just the two of us in years. Due to my son's medical condition, she doesn't trust just anybody to watch the kids. I've tried many times two get her to open up enough to somebody to watch our kids so we can have our relationship as well. But for the moment, she is Dead set against a random babysitter to watch our kids. And she definitely would not want to leave her infant with a babysitter. Not until the baby is a little bit older anyways. As my older son gets older, it becomes a lot easier because he's getting better at advocating for himself in his needs.

So in the meantime, I do the best I can to create fun family outings. When I put together fun things for us to do, from her mood picks up very well. But, she still has to maintain that Mom identity throughout.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, that's tough. The first couple dates may be disasters if her anxiety is really high, but it's important to push her out of her comfort zone. Presuming of course you find a well qualified sitter/nanny that's worth that trust.

It might be worth exploring having a nanny or other caretaker around the house to help out while you guys are there a few times so she can build up some trust and familiarity with the sitter. It also presents easy opportunities for you both to leave the house to do an errand or shopping or what have you which can test her anxieties, give you some alone time and help reduce her anxiety enough to go on real dates.

Anyway, all this may be horse before the cart. First things first, she has to answer for violating the trust in the relationship. But if things keep moving on past there, those are some things you can try. You're going to have to be the one to push her out of her comfort zone in regards to the baby and she'll thank you for it later once she starts to feel like she has a life outside mom again.

[–]rp_findingmyway4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Option 1 all the way bud.

Really doesn't sound like she physically cheated, given the logistics you mentioned, the fact she apparently throws around "I love you's" to everyone she knows and the way the other dude and her were chatting (not all that sexually). I think as Litz said, he's a pathetic orbiter and she was/is enjoying the attention. BFD. Your OPSEC and the info you have already learned should be kept tightly under wraps.

Contacting the other guy or his wife, or creating fake FB accounts to do the same, would all be bitch-ass moves and unworthy of anyone claiming to swallow the RP.

Keep lifting and sidebar. More importantly is your frame. Fix/improve yourself. Stop worrying so much about her. If your wife wants to cut and run, you wave goodbye and say thanks for the awesome 15/20 etc. years and you have a younger/hotter/tighter replacement to her in weeks.

In reality, your life sounds similar to mine (lots of kids, big move, beta orbiters around wife, wife's SMV outranks you). The only move for you to make in this is to continue working on yourself, lifting, and in general being the kind of guy your wife (and lots of other women for that matter) are attracted to and not repelled by where they compensate by turning to bible-toting losers to fill some sort of void.

Edit: just read some of your limited post history. You're working too many hours in a career you hate. Be home more with your family and start building a life outside of work that makes you a better man. No guy friends. No hobbies other than BJJ? Come on. If you're a white collar worker, you should realize by now that you can do your job in well under 40 hours per week. Stop the 60 hours a week bullshit where you're probably just sticking around the office for "face time" reasons. Work your ass off for 8 hours a day and then go home.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lots of wisdom in this. ESPECIALLY the job stuff.

[–]AustralianArm3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy

Option 5 - Anonymous letter to other wife telling her to look into her husband's cheating ways. That'll get her hamster running. No detail even needed. Make sure you send it from another town/city than your own and don't handwrite it.

That's the soft option that doesn't involve your wife finding out you've been snooping.

[–]redditJ53 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Option 5B, setup a fake fb account looking like another chick, message the dudes wife and say, she your husband has been taking to my friend that is married in inappropriate ways for a man of faith that is married and let the hampster run. Wouldn't give her anything that can be used to track you down. Don't use your email to setup the account.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

That sounds like a pussy ass move. Who gives a shit if she knows he snooped. She will only have power over him if he grants it. "I can't believe you were spying on me." gets "When a person jeopardizes my family their privacy is of little concern. By the way, I've printed out the messages in triplicate, one in a safe deposit box and one with my lawyer, and one ready to send to anybody in the family who you try to tell your sob story to."

[–]AustralianArm0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Hence why I called it a soft option.

I should have titled it as the pussy option in hindsight.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ironically the pussy option that results in him getting the least pussy...

[–]The_LitzRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

It is a little lame, getting the other dude's wife to fight your battles. It reeks of nerds revenge.

The next time he posts a pic of himself on FB I would just comment on it using his exact words. “You look so pretty in that pic”

Dude won't know what to say and it serves the purpose of telling him "Hey sunshine, I am onto your game" without lowering yourself to his level with a confrontation. Ignore any reply from the dude. Being ignored really fucks with people, especially if they seek approval and validation, or want to DEER their actions.

Any confrontation will just lead to OP being sucked into a 'discussion' about Feelz and DEERíng. OP is above that, don't engage idiots.

But FB is for pussies anyway, so it would be better for OP to stay off it.

[–]mabden0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

getting the other dude's wife to fight your battles.

1) one of the surest ways to end an affair is exposure

2) the other wife deserves to know what dear hubby is up to

3) the op's battle is with his wife, not the affair partner

[–]The_LitzRed Beret-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

OP's wife has already ended it with the dude, what value will OP gain by pursuing a confrontation or splitting him to his wife?

He will just get drawn into other people's drama.

[–]mabden1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP's wife has already ended it with the dude

the other guy is still hanging around, won't go away, and still carries a torch for the op's wife

He will just get drawn into other people's drama.

not really, he is passing on the drama to the other guy's wife. let her deal with him, while op deals with his wife.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh I dunno, this other guy has made the OP's life more complicated and jeopardized his family, it only seems fair to introduce some complication into his life.

[–]nantucketghost2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Confront her head on. Screen shot first. Tell the other man's wife too. Fuck him. A man's rule is to never mess with another man's wife. Period.

When you confront her, tell her enough is enough. No more facebook for a while and deactivate her account. Give her a reality check. Tell her that if flirting via text with another married man behind your back is more important than your relationship then there is the door.

[–]BTed440[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

For those who may be following I took the night to think about what I want to do. As you can see, advice from others here ranges from let it go and focus on yourself, to guns blazing confrontation and confront him and his wife. Based on the broad spectrum of advice, I've concluded that there is no "right" answer.

I've decided that this has to end now. It's been a roller coaster ride for almost 2 years. Wondering and waiting for the next FB exchange. It will continue to gnaw at me unless I take action on it.

As far as killing the puppy, I have no problem killing it if she is unwilling to go with my instructions or if she admits to something physical. I'm not going to let this keep this bullshit going on. If she wants to be with me, great. If not, that's fine too.

Based on our relationship improvements over the past 1.5 years, I really don't see her being unwilling to end this shit now, but I'm open to being wrong about this and I'm ready to face the alternatives if needed.

I thought about what other guys I know would do in this situation. Would my highly alpha, black belt BJJ instructor tolerate this? Fuck no. Now, I realize I am not him, but I'm no chump either.

I'm not exactly a newbie with all this stuff. Started this process 1.5 yrs ago with other similar forums then found mrp. I'm no expert either. I think of it like being a BJJ blue belt. Yeah, a blue belt would get whooped by a black belt and has not internalized everything the way a black belt has. A black belt knows what you are going to do before you do. But, a solid blue belt is nothing to sneeze at. A blue belt has a good foundation of skills and can catch you slipping if you're not careful.

I will start a follow up thread after I confront and let you know what happens. I want others to learn from where I fuck up and what I did right.

[–]Red-Curious1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's the deal ... tell her you're picking up signs she might be cheating on you. Say it's because of her unusually high/good attention or something. Ask if she's been talking to other guys. Be calm and direct.

If she admits, she did the hard part for you. If she doesn't, she's lying to you and has already violated your trust. Her hamster will rationalize that your violation is worse and she'll get all accusatory, but by now you should know how to deal with that problem ... like any other hamster-caused fitness test.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Deadbedroom, wife checked out, a dude keeps telling her I love you, and she keeps responding in kind. What do think was happening in the deadbedroom period? They still say I love you? That's not how friends speak. Hey your looking hot. The proximity has made things difficult to keep this at a physical affair. This was never just emotional. She cheated on you. Her not trusting you? How about you not trusting her?

[–]2235521 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wife is feeling emotional void, husband is not filling this emotional void, wife looks outside marriage to get emotions/feelz/dopamine, husband not happy about it/wants to throw a tantrum.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Print out everything, make copies, make backup copies. Does she have an android phone? Most likely you can log into her google history and get a day by day history of her locations. Think back to that weekend you were away with the kids. Where did she go? Get all your evidence together, then bring her in for "the talk".

No goddamn way in hell should she be saying I love you to a dude. Now, before you act on your data, you need to have a long talk with yourself and understand what you want. Do you want her to stay? Assume the worst regarding her past, that is water under the bridge. You need to decide what you want to happen, then make a plan for it.

You CANNOT force her to love you. Exposing the affair might make her stop (for a while), or go deeper underground, but it will never make her love you. If you want her to stick around, your best bet is to fully adopt the IDGAF attitude. If you are super butt hurt (who wouldn't be) when you confront her, it is going to go south on you. You need to have it as water under the bridge before you even talk to her. That is your only path to happiness. Her affair doesn't mean you don't have to follow your plan to improve yourself.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

For me, it's pretty simple. If she tells me there was a physical affair at some point, I'd never be able to look at her the same again. I'd be done. Get a lawyer and figure out how the next stage of life will be.

If it was just emotional, which I believe is the case, I'm confident that the emotional feelz she once had from him have been dead for a while, based on her language and the infrequent communication between them. This guy filled the emotional void I left when I was acting like an asshole.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If she tells me there was a physical affair at some point,

Under what possible circumstances would anybody do this without hard evidence? Not. Gonna. Happen.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It really doesn't matter if it is physical or not. It might feel different, but it isn't. The point is, decide what you want and act accordingly. I think you need to decide if you want her around, and if so accept that you weren't/aren't producing the tingles, and this was a consequence.

That doesn't mean it's a free pass for her, but don't let it fester for years, deal with it and move on, either with or without her.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Then this guy gave the “I love you” and my wife returned with an “I love you too”

In my teens and 20s I was a pathetic beta orbiter to many women. Never once did I say "I love you" to any of them. The fact is, I did not love them - I wanted to bang them but was too much of a pussy to make a move. Only after I have sex will I catch feelz from a woman. Nor did any of these women say "I love you" to me, for the obvious reason that if they had, I would certainly have interpreted that as a signal that she wanted to be more than "just friends".

All this being the case, it is very, very hard for me to imagine a man saying "I love you" to a woman and hearing "I love you" back from her if no physical affair has occurred. It is certainly way over the line for her to permit him to say that and for her to say it back to him. I don't want it to be true that your wife had sex with this guy, but I think you are deluding yourself about it because you don't want it to be true.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I might be deluding myself, but I still highly doubt it became physical. The truth is, there's only one way to find out. I need to confront this situation, rule in or rule out a physical affair, and if just emotional, end it completely. I think shut up and lift was a good strategy last year. But the fact that this keeps going on tells me I might need to escalate my strategy

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

The truth is, there's only one way to find out.

I sense that you think "confronting her" is the way to find out if she physically cheated. Do you really think she's going to confess if she did? What cheaters always do is try to see what you know, limit the "confession" to what they know you know, and hope you are satisfied with trickle truth.

I doubt your frame is strong enough to elicit truth if you don't have positive proof in your hands. The confrontation will go like this:

You: "I know you told him you loved him, but you didn't have sex did you?"

Her: "No, of course not, honey!"

You: "Thank God, now let's move on with our lives!"

Her: (to herself) "Whew, he doesn't know, dodged a bullet there."

You: (to yourself) "Whew, now I don't have to push this painful conversation any farther and lose this smart, hot, funny HB8.5 who has lots of options, dodged a bullet there."

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

There is no doubt in my mind that a confrontation would go much better than that. I know I still have work to do on myself, but I'm not exactly a weak chump who avoids confrontation. I'm capable of doing this effectively, if that's what I want to do.

So, what's your suggestion? Just assume a physical affair occurred, don't say shit about it, and pretend everything is ok?

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Decide what you want from this marriage, including whether it should exist at all.

Decide what you specifically want from a confrontation.

Give up the idea that she's going to confess to a physical affair if there was one.

Forget about "asking her" stuff, e.g. "did you have a physical affair? would it be appropriate for me to be FB friends with another married woman?" The purpose of a confrontation is to TELL her how it's going to be if she wants the marriage to continue. You give her clearly defined choices to behave appropriately or it's over. Have the paperwork and a plan ready in case she chooses "it's over".

She must break ALL communication with this guy and give you full access to her communications devices.

Read up on "main event" posts here, and read chapter 19 of Athol Kay's MAP book.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid advice. Thanks. I appreciate it.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have to know - how exactly do you intend to elicit the actual truth from her? It cannot be done without hard proof. https://youtu.be/LiZH5eH5eDw

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Thank you for all the comments everybody I do appreciate them all. Not going to lie, there's such a broad spectrum of answers about what the next step should be, I'm still confused about what I should do. At the end of the day today, I plan to sit down and reread everything and come up with a plan for what I want to do.

For the record, it's not that I'm afraid of losing her. I am very confident I can find a younger and hotter woman. The main reasons I have not done anything sooner is because of my family. My wife had been pregnant for a large portion of this so I didn't want to bring about this stress during that time. And now with three young children, the thought of them growing up in a divorced household absolutely kills me.

[–]anythingincRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Had a slow start, but over the past 12 months, relationship has really improved. Affection from wife towards me has returned to almost pre-dead bedroom level...our relationship and family life have really improved. She’s more affectionate with me. Makes comments about my body and physical improvements I’ve made.

Dude, you are winning the game you set out to win, don't switch up the play now. The ground game is working but you want to mix in a 60 yard pass because, well, we're dudes, and I get that.

This dude is a beta orbiter, every female on social media has an orbiter, read some posts from ex-orbiters about how pathetic it is. He is initiating, not her. Yeah, he is giving her some validation, yeah they could fuck, yeah it all may cross a boundary, but she could fuck anyone at any time, and I don't think this is the hill you want to plant the flag in and maybe die on. If this pathetic orbiter is her backup then GREAT, best case scenario. You can't set a boundary and not enforce it, you have to be ready for divorce. Maybe she stops, maybe she just gets more clever, maybe she fucks a random in a bathroom. You can't worry about that, you've got a 280lb fullback and the other team's plays don't matter, because you're getting 5 yards a down. So at this point in the game I wouldn't even bother with keeping up with her messages. You've got 2 years of verification, your gut and spidey senses are working, let that go man, keep getting those chunks of yards, get in the end-zone, do your dance. I bet once you get this dude and FB out of your mind and let go of some butthurt you convert on 3rd and 15.

Well then you are sorted, you have your shit together now and you know what made her vulnerable to a outside dude, so move on. You have seen it has fizzeled out from her end so there is no worries.

This is correct. Your metric is now "does she make my life better and add value to it and please me." If the answer is "yes" or you have hope that someday soon it will be "yes" then go to sleep and tomorrow is a new day.

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the comment. Up until discovering this latest conversation, I would have agreed with you. I felt as if everything had come a long way and it was continuing to make progress. To continue with your analogy, it feels like I was driving down towards their 20-yard line with a solid ground game. Discovering the latest conversation was as if I just threw a pick-6 interception.

I thought it was done. Reading their most recent exchange from a few weeks ago, I feel like I'm back at square one

[–]anythingincRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

“Love you more!”

“Lol”

I'm legit cringing for this dude yet your insecurity makes you feel threatened by him. And he won't be your downfall, your insecurity will. If you can't come at her from a place of "Jesus, this guy is hilarious and pathetic, why are you trying to be nice to him" instead of butthurt and insecurity then you have no business confronting it.

If she cheated 2 years ago, you're past that (or are you?) and how she acts towards you daily is what matters now. Girls are nice to people online and generally won't shoot someone down unless they get creepy/sexual. This guy hasn't, he's just pathetic, but you want to tee up your marriage on the 40 yard line for a field goal over it.

  • It is only 3 points when you were a shoe-in for 7
  • Low percentage play
  • Coach doesn't trust his offense

If the past matters, then yeah, she was shitty, checked out, divorce her and be done with it.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm new and relatively fucked up but I have experience with an EA.

Considering frame, OI, kids, divorce, et al, start with the end in mind in fixing this.

Any action you take will have an outcome, but you also have a goal. Establish the goal first. What is the goal? And remember the biggest part of that goal is YOU getting to a place of peace about this, otherwise it will consume you like a cancer intellectually and emotionally which will eventually fuck you up physically.

Establish the goal. Then write down the steps to get there. Have contingency plans for steps that move you away from the goal.

At the end of the day, the way I am starting to understand all this shit, is you take care of YOU first. "Please put on your oxygen mask first before..."

If you end up fucked up about this long enough, it will affect you being a husband, father, employee, etc.

You have to function at 100% for YOU to be worth anything to everyone else.

So, what is it going to take for YOU to find peace with this situation? The answer to that question will define your course of action.

It won't be sunshine, rainbows, and unicorn farts. But it must be what YOU feel is the right answer from YOUR self-righteous frame.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

user/BTed440 got an update?

[–]BTed440[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. Planning to post a more comprehensive update this weekend. I purposely waited before posting an update to see if any more trickle truth would come out. I'll get into details when I post a follow-up thread, but basically I'm confident that u/anythinginc hit the nail on the head and this is a beta Orbiter. Wife let me log into her Facebook account, read messages, block the beta Orbiter. I sent the beta Orbiter a message. Everything checks out with no communication through text or phone records. No other social media. Expect a follow-up thread this weekend, and I'll get into more details



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