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Leading and Mrs. Nice Girl

Reddit View
June 26, 2017

Wife has always had an issue with being too nice to people, and predictably getting taken advantage of/manipulated into being an unwilling volunteer. This has been going on pretty much since I've known her, and ultimately I've clumsily bailed her out of most/all of these situations. Sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly.

I've never had the knowledge, patience or articulation to lead her to improve her social ability. Personally if I feel myself being manipulated/used I am very blunt about not wanting to be in the situation, and people end up fucking off. Wife is much more sensitive about peoples' feelings, and has sort of a "scarcity mentality" when it comes to friends. She will give in with the worry that if she doesn't comply something bad will happen. After listening to NMMNG I interpret this as abandonment issues. Her parents divorced at 7yo, and her dad more or less bailed, and my MIL was a big "I need friends around all the time and they're like family to me" type of person.

The most recent situation was that a classmate/friend of our son has a mom that is super fucking clingy. I don’t know why she is clingy, and I don’t really care. Our kids have hung out before, ours has stayed the night, and they get along pretty well. Now it’s summer, clinger mom works full time, and she can’t afford her babysitter. So she asks my wife to do it, as my wife works at a school, and for the most part has the summer off. As noted, wife doesn’t know how to handle shit like this. She clearly does not want to do this, and rightfully so as it’s a ridiculous request. Put him in a fucking daycare like everybody else.

I took some initiative here as I saw this as an opportunity to lead. I suggested some methods on how my wife should handle the situation. She’s a "nice person," so when I told her to text a perfunctory “no, I can’t do that” her head pretty much exploded. I took her phone, and I sent the text. I told her do not answer if she calls, as I know this is more than she can handle. She looks immediately relieved.

Other mom responded immediately with a 4-5 text saga, and wife freaks out. I break down the texts for her. “This woman is manipulating you. Whether she intends to or not, she is deliberately trying to put pressure on you to do what she wants. Look, she even brings up the kids, and how good it is they’re friends blah blah blah.”

Five or so minutes pass: I then tell her to text back “Sorry, I just don’t have the time.” Again wife’s head explodes. I type out the text and send it. 2-3 more texts back immediately. Complete change of tune. Very generic “I’m sorry for bothering you, blah blah blah.” Basically a guilt trip.

Wife: Jesus you’re right. Look how manipulative this is. Now she’s trying to make me sound like the bad guy.

Me: I know.

Her: What should I say now?

Me: Nothing. The conversation is over.

Her: What if she texts again?

Me: Ignore it. If it’s something you feel compelled to respond let me know. I’ll tell you whether you need to.

I don’t know if I handled this completely correctly. Some of it feels like I’m encouraging conflict aversion, but at the time I viewed it as someone trying to cross my wife’s boundaries. Also, I believe she was covertly begging me to help her solve this problem. She seemed extremely grateful, and went from super anxious to pretty much at ease.

Normally I would avoid interfering as this is her drama. But as I mentioned, this has happened before, and sooner or later I get dragged into this shit whether directly or indirectly. This time I viewed it as a chance to be viewed as her captain, and acted preemptively. I saw an opportunity to teach her how to recognize and handle this shit from the beginning, and for the time being it seems to have worked out.

I'm curious if there's anything I missed or fucked up here. Was I too hands-on? Am I encouraging conflict aversion? Or am I just overthinking this?

Post Information
Title Leading and Mrs. Nice Girl
Author checka_fred
Upvotes 13
Comments 21
Date 26 June 2017 07:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy

I have done similar things for the wife. meh. part of being a man in a relationship is to do things she cant.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly... same with kids. If they can "blame" someone else then they have an out.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

  • pick up really heavy things

  • open pickle jar

  • kill, kill, kill

  • be a dick

what did i miss?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

fend off the scary people on the phone

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

you're right. that is a good one. we had credit collector stalking the SIL years ago. i delighted in torturing the guy. caused him to completely lose his shit several times. he had a real weakness for his mom. oh the Lulz

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck everything else. I want to know more about this ^

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

SIL and her boyfriend got blown up on an internet biz in the meltdown. SIL/BF blow up and SIL moves in with us 16 years ago as au pair.

went through a series of creditor/collectors calling. i fielded most of the calls with "no I don't know where she is, bitch just disappeared". after a year or two of that we must have gotten moved up to the "hard guys" because they started being more aggressive about going after other family member assets (total BS btw). i would just laugh and/or start screaming obscenities; and they would hang up.

but there was this one guy, who would just not give it up. i could tell from his voice that he was african american. i just started laying in with all kinds of coontown racist shit. he'd get pretty mad but he couldn't bring himself to hang-up until i brought his whore mother into it . . . then he would just lose it and start making these threats . . . and then hang-up. we went multiple rounds; and every time i would just amp it up faster and harder. finally he gave up; and that was the end of it.

ten years later, with her parents help, she filed bankruptcy and her parents paid off her student loans.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

This is where I have my wife make me look like the bad guy and say, "My husband says, 'No.'"

[–]Code_Combo_Breaker4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

Na. That can backfire eventually because it comes off as teaching your wife to place the blame on the husband for stuff she doesn't want to do.

Teach her to own her shit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

For my wife to own her shit in regards to people pleasing, she would have to have some OI born of ego death. I do not believe that she, or most woman, are actually capable of that. Women, like children, are pure pride/self.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Assertiveness training is not limited by sex. There are plenty of examples of this in WISNIFG.

While women tend to skew towards traits like agreeableness and neuroticism, they're still tendencies and even someone high in both agreeableness AND neuroticism can still learn the skills set forth in WISNIFG.

Whether they WANT to if they can hand it off to their SO is another matter. But beware the dependence that can build.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

My wife's people pleasing is mostly towards her family, which is ruled by matriarchs going back 4 generations. Every male in that family is beta as hell and they run for their lives to their deer stands, ice houses, and boats whenever they can. I kind of like sticking it to them by having my wife get out of shit by saying the husband laid down the law.

But I may be selling her short in regards to assertiveness training. You have to pick your battles.

[–]capn_barnacles2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like you handled it well. I don't see it as conflict aversion, I think you were showing how to be verbally assertive for what she wants. This feels like it's straight out of a WISNIFG script. In that book he talks about your own improvement in being more verbally assertive will help others be more assertive themselves, for the good of everyone.

[–]IBeMadToo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like she needs to read WISNIFG

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was going to write this as a response to /u/Code_Combo_Breaker, but felt it would do better as a top line response for everyone.

Sometimes it's not about a woman saying 'no', it's about her saving social face. Remember if you give her an out in front of her peers, she may take it not because she doesn't want to own her shit but because there's more at stake. Social standing is a powerful motivator in her eyes. It allows for a graceful exit, "I'd love too but my husband says..", as opposed to the message "I don't want to help you"

Secondly, your wife needs to understand that you are the bad guy, she wants to know you can be also. It's subtle and unspoken but in my house, my word is final. Period. Initially this was a hard fought battle. The beta matrix conditions you to be all "equality and diplomacy" but the reality is there were times my wife was begging me to make the decision for her. She was frozen with indecision and I was trying to be a nice guy instead of a leader. Quite often when she brings it to you, it's already to the point where she doesn't know what to do.

As a leader you need to make sure things are teachable moments and don't turn into waterline events. My wife watches a single-mom kid (just after school). She doesn't get paid, and from an outside observer's perspective she is getting the short end of the stick. I've said to her, but like I said it's not a waterline issue. Well through a turn of events my wife had a chance to have a paid sitter job this summer, and when offered the same opportunity single-mom balked. I set the whole thing up as a teachable moment. Did I have to be the bad guy on this one? No. Did she know I would be if called upon? Yes.

It all comes back to understanding the mission at hand. In my home, the mission is paramount. We have several vacations planned, and some great experiences to come from them. Her support of the mission is that it's her income that covers expenses. When she asked me for some advice on that, it was a teachable moment.

"Well how do you feel about single-mom spending her money on stupid shit?"

"I know"

"Meanwhile she always manages to go to the beach for a week but she can't pay you?"

"She's just not good with money."

"Well don't you think your kids should come first? I mean you take the sitter job, and we can go on two vacations instead of one."

Momma bear mode achieved.

In the past I may have had to just outright say no. Sometimes when she's not pushing past it, I might say "Think about it, but here's my feelings on it so you have a clear picture." It gives her a subtle reminder of what the mission is.

The long game is you want your wife to know that you have her back, even when she can't move forward. Get her thinking in terms of "What would my husband do?" Give her a framework to operate in her social circle, yet is inline with your mission. Eventually she'll start to mimic you and your decisions. I've heard my wife tell her friends, "Yeah we're not going to do that..." and repeat word for word something I had said to her. That came from a level of trust from many teachable moments.

[–]checka_fred[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Get her thinking in terms of "What would my husband do?"

This was my goal here. I don't mind being the "bad guy," and I think I made that clear. She definitely knows that, and many times has used me as an excuse to avoid a conflict with a friend or even boss.

The problem with this is that it turns into a crutch for her. Instead of being able to depend on me when needed, it turns into blaming me for not being able to do something. So I decided to intervene, rather than be the bad guy here.

Give her a framework to operate in her social circle, yet is inline with your mission.

"I would, but my husband said no" can turn into "my husband is a jerk and won't let me do anything" if the third party can frame it their way.

My wife is retarded even in low pressure situations, which is why I literally had to have a text conversation for her. Instead of letting clinger mom manipulate her, I framed it as our problem (not just hers), and took the lead.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like a good start to helping give her some skills in that area. You could look at it as coaching her to be more assertive, remove the training wheels gradually and get her more involved in it herself (presuming she would want that).

Not sure if suggesting she read WISNIFG would be bad or not for your strategy, she does sound like she'd benefit from it.

I would echo keeping a cautionary eye out about creating dependence if it becomes a pattern. Only because I had an ex when I was young where I allowed that to happen. Big exhausting mistake.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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