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Hello, and My story

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June 20, 2017

Hi guys, hope this is within the rules to post an introduction...

I've recently discovered the red pill material. 37 years old, married for 13, two kids. My entire adult life has been "blue pill", not unlike many of you. Shitty, infrequent sex and a fucked up dynamic where she was clearly the alpha in our relationship. I honestly don't think she ever wanted that- it was just the natural consequence of living with a non-assertive, non-confident, non-masculine guy. (it hurts me to write that...but there it is) Discovering Athol Kay's work and TRP in general has been nothing short of taking a red pill as we saw in the Matrix... suddenly all the little bits of world-view conflicting information and experiences suddenly click in to place. "Ah ha!", everything makes sense. All the seemingly contradictory actions of women and advice from sex columnists that never, ever worked are so obvious now. Sad that I've lost so much time, but also happy that I still have quite a bit of time to fix this shit.

Whole thing got started when the wife and I stumbled on a NYTimes article on open marriages. It was a catalyst because it forced us to remember what it was like kissing someone new for the first time, and thinking about that possibility in an open marriage. The open marriage idea didn't hold water for either of us- we don't want that, but it forced us to see that there's something clearly missing in our relationship today: excitement on both sides. For her, an obvious (obvious now...) lack of attraction / arousal due to my lame beta traits. For me a lack of sex and great confusion as to why. From there it inspired us to read the book "Mating in Captivity", a marriage self help book that I endorse. It's helpful for what it is and is congruent with RP material, specifically where it speaks to male/female dynamics, but falls short in that it doesn't really offer a clear plan of action. Then I found Athol's MMSLP book. Holy shit I couldn't read it fast enough. Things really clicked in to place with that one. I realized pretty quickly that this is a book to read on my own, so that I could employ the advice without looking like my actions are in any way orchestrated (although they are!). It's very hard to change very ingrained thought patterns. To a large degree I am "faking it until I make it".

I'm fresh on the journey. For my part, I've been very physically fit since I started running in 2011 and then when I started lifting in 2013. This is something I've made part of my life and has also inspired her to try and keep up. I'm also not horribly ugly (lol), and am enjoying a healthy career. Right now I'm in a management position at work and there is a lot of room for upwards mobility which I am acting on. Where I've succeeded career wise I have failed in other areas- such as not putting enough importance on hanging out with male friends. Also not enough attention on personal hobbies that have no involvement from the wife unit. And the elephant in the room of course, is the beta behavior.

I really appreciate that there is a good number of guys here like me who have made permanent changes in their marriages for the better. I have a few specific questions for you guys if you'll entertain them:

  1. I've read that you shouldn't expect faster progress than 1 month for every year you've been married and in a blue pill state. For me that would be about 13 months. If I do "everything right", what should I reasonably expect after 3 months, 6 months, 8 months, 12 months?

  2. Along the lines of #1, is there any real limit to this? From my perspective, reading posts from you guys about how you went from near-sexless marriage to fucking 4-5 times a week is nothing short of magical. Seriously- that looks just like magic from my vantage point. I don't want to raise false expectations, but I also don't want to self limit because that seems to be the wrong way around. Thoughts?

  3. How has it been as an internal journey? I mean- many of the changes here are not small from my perspective and more or less add up to a personality change. I have no problem with that consciously, but from experience I know that changing fundamental aspects of your personality is anything but simple. It can (and will!) be done, but I'd appreciate hearing what your experiences of this are. Do you feel tired quite often? Is it tough to remember to act "alpha"? When does it cross over into natural behavior? What advice can you offer to help me ingest this stuff more into who I am? I suppose seeing some results will help reinforce things.

  4. One thing I know will help me specifically is creating a healthy level of active and passive dread. I can hold my own physically with sex appeal. I notice women eyeing me down here and there. But I've been "no threat" for so long with my wife that I know she has taken me for granted by now, and I presume she has the attitude that "oh well, it could be worse". Again I hold no anger over this- it is a natural consequence of my behavior. One positive take-away from the 'mating in captivity' book we read together is that flirting (with agreed boundaries) is a healthy activity for both people in a marriage. Can you share any tips for doing this "right"? Since I started flirting (again, first time in 13+ years), I've enjoyed it immensely. But if I only flirt when the Mrs. is not around, I don't think I'm really getting the full benefit. I get more self confidence but miss out on the dread gains. But I worry that I'm so out of practice with flirting that if I did it right in front of her I would come off too strong and/or ruin the game somehow. So how do you flirt with another lady and let your wife know about it without making it obvious that you want your wife to know about it? Because that sort of ruins the game.

  5. And a very specific question. I'll be off on a business trip to LA in a couple of months. Any pro-tips for maximizing some dread build up in this time? I'll do nearly anything to make my marriage hot again. I even thought up some convoluted plans to recruit some female friends (who live in other cities) to make flirtatious facebook comments on my facebook wall, shit like that. All I know is that I'm a unit of animated carbon walking around on a spinning ball of rock, orbiting a ball of fire and that my experience here can be good or bad, but that nobody else, let along the universe, cares or will do anything else for me either way. I want to make it as good as it can possibly be!!

thanks for reading and again, so awesome that this community exists.

TLDR: Enthusiastic and optimistic newbie checking in and asking about some basics, and some specifics. Thanks, really happy to be here.

Post Information
Title Hello, and My story
Author longboarder550
Upvotes 6
Comments 49
Date 20 June 2017 12:14 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205972
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6idmx5/hello_and_my_story/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
alphabetanaturaldread gameliftassertivegamethe red pillthe blue pill

[–]mrpthrowa16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're concentrating too much on the relationship and not on you.

Forget everything else - work on you.

For a start, this will help you not come up with weird faggotty things like hiring girls to comment on your facebook while you're away. What the fuck.

[–]longboarder550[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Insightful words here... It's true I am focused on the relationship when I think about it. To be honest I often feel quite desperate to get things into a better place. It grinds on me at times. And it can lead to desperate ideas like the Facebook thing. In my ordinary life immediate problem solving with fix it ideas usually works. But I can see that this thinking will work against my best interests on this one.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously. That getting other girls to write flirtatious shit on your Facebook is the gayest thing I've heard in a long time.

[–]MRPFuckMe19 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well... to speak to questions #1 and #5 specifically, they reek of covert contracts.

You're clearly approaching this with specific results in mind. You want to fuck your wife (totally understandable) and you think you've got the answer to that problem. But it doesn't work like that. You've got to get it out of your head. Like seriously.

The MRP journey is about making you a man. And being a man is simply who you are, but you've given up on it. We're here to help you find it.

Fucking your wife will probably happen more often as you progress, but with all your covert contracts, what happens if she's not on board? Your return to faggotry undoubtedly, as you get angry and frustrated that your little tricks don't seem to be working.

I see you going Rambo. Don't do it. Your wife really has nothing to do with any of this. Basically, your shitty marriage has caused you to stumble upon the man-making train where the only role your wife plays is a gauge for how well you're TRULY progressing.

[–]longboarder550[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this great reply, I truly appreciate it. It's true what you say... I do have specific goals and results in mind. This way of thinking in general is how I usually work, and it usually works well for other things like working out, career stuff, etc... But I can appreciate that that won't necessarily work for everything. I guess that has to be the case for human relationships.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

1 - The one month per year rule is mainly mentioned in Bluepillprofessor's opus "The 12 stages of dread" Google it, it's the first result. This will also answer your secondary question.

2 - It's true. I am unbelievably satisfied with my sex life now. Nothing is off the table, she's submissive, tries hard to please, wears what I tell her to. Had to buy a wardrobe for the ever expanding collection of bedroom toys. Sex is daily.

3 - Can't help. I grew up independent and alpha, it was my Disney mentality about women and depression that turned me into a drunk captain. It requires discipline to keep promises to yourself. So make yourself some promises and prove you have the discipline to keep them.

4 - Again, 12 stages of dread delineate this process in easy to digest form.

5 - Anything you do this early in will either be ignored or backfire. Treat it as a business trip. You're way too far in her frame to do anything else except be less available to her when you're gone.

Don't answer texts right away. If you skype, don't. No long phone conversations. Be Busy.

Then fuck the hell out of her the second you get back.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Since you can't hyperlink, I'm going to copy paste a comment made two years ago by Jacktenofhearts that describes the dynamic better than I ever could. It comes from a comment on "Verbal intercourse is optional" if you want to search the thread........

The analog to a woman's sexuality is a man's attention. The basic transaction in male/female courtship is men trading attention and women trading sex. Every type of male-female interaction follows this. Little boys tease the girls they actually like the most. High school boys tolerate a shitty rom-com movie to get a hand job in the back seat in the theater. College boys put in the time to throw keggers so the cute sorority girls come by. And so and so forth.

So women typically react to undesirable behavior -- undesirable attention -- by shutting down sex. When your wife would observe the Blue Pill you, and took stock of the lumpy, slothful, passive person she called her husband, is she going to feel particularly attracted to that? If she going to respond to watching you waste so much attention on videogames or junk food, with sex? Of course not. It would be nice if women could communicate this, if they could plainly state, look, you're acting like a loser, and I'm not attracted to losers. But they can't, that kind of overt communication is not what they're used to. All they can really do is nag that you play videogames while they do chores, and then you do some chores, and wonder why she still doesn't want to have sex.

Because what happens if they do communicate it overtly? Our egos could take it if they said, "you're acting like a loser, please engage in some attraction-enhancing activities instead, even if they have nothing to do with me." But instead the women that do try and overtly communicate it say something like this: "we're not having sex until [you fulfill some condition that has nothing to do with sex]," which even some Blue Pill betas would consider that a "weaponizing sex" and a "damaging ultimatum."

Men are bad at covert communication, and women are bad at overt communication. So realize when Red Pill men are instructed to withdraw attention when their wife is acting undesirable, you're advising covert communication that they're very likely bad at. This is why we talk so much about "covert contracts" -- we're trying to speak covertly and then getting upset when our wives don't respond. Of course they don't respond, because we're bad at it.

Which is why so many guys stumble in here, saying their wife shot them down for sex, they fucked off out of bed and tried to do something else, and their wives accused them of being "butthurt." This is why it goes as poorly as a woman saying, "no videogames, no sex." Both situations -- the woman giving her husband an overt sexual ultimatum and the man ignoring his wife after he was turned down for sex -- invites feelings of manipulation, hostility, confrontation.

Should you withdraw your attention if your wife is behaving in a way that doesn't deserve your attention? Of course. What you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0. Your wife is not entitled to your attention, but she is entitled to feel upset when you suddenly withdraw your attention after a pattern of years of giving her attention unconditionally. And if you just swallowed the Red Pill, as I said, you will not have the frame to deal with an upset wife who is pissed that you're changing the rules. Because you are, in fact, changing the rules. The reason why "a husband is not entitled to have sex with his wife on demand, unconditionally" is not a controversial statement is because this is accepted conventional wisdom. "A wife is not entitled to get her husband's attention on demand, unconditionally" is not accepted conventional wisdom. Your wife, and likely everyone else in your life, including yourself until you swallowed the Red Pill, really did think those were the rules. And this is what upsets people, just like "no videogames or no sex" also comes across as changing the rules.

But "a sustained pattern of undesirable behavior resulting a loss of attraction and thus a lack of desire for attention and/or sex" -- those are pretty conventional rules too. Which is why a marriage counselor would completely support a wife who painstakingly described her lack of libido as being the result of all her husband's loser actions, but would scold a wife who gave her husband that "no videogames or no sex" ultimatum.

It’s simple…give the ‘hard no’ to her initiations.

And this is why I typically advise against newly unplugged guys doing exactly this. A "hard no" will come across as changing the rules, and this will piss of your wife, because you're basically telling her you were complicit in those rules until you stumbled across a subreddit and decided otherwise. You are absolutely entitled to withdraw your attention, but there are countless ways you can do so, over time, with much less confrontation and damage done to your marriage in the process. The classic method is not explicitly withdrawing your attention in direct response to undesirable behavior, but gradually adding activities to your life, activities that direct your attention elsewhere. Because what are the likely outcomes of these two scenarios?

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "No, because you didn't fuck me last night." OR Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "Maybe another time, I've got my softball game tonight."

So yes, for you unplugging guys, your wife will turn you down for sex, and you'll be so tempted to leave the room and otherwise withdraw your attention in direct response. Don't do this. Take a deep breath, remain stoic. At that very moment, continue to do whatever activity you were currently doing. If you were watching a shitty TV show with your wife, finish watching that shitty TV show. Use that time to take stock of your life, to ponder how things got here, spending your evenings watching TV shows you don't like, with a woman who doesn't seem to like you very much. Start thinking about a plan to change that situation, and what kind of goals would indicate you're succeeding in that plan. Then, when the TV show is done, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom, then go to another room, and start writing down some notes for that plan.

The next morning, your wife may want to kiss you goodbye before you go to work, as she often likes to do. You will be upset once again, wondering why she gets the attention and intimacy of a kiss while you get nothing in return. And then she'll text you inane shit during the day, getting pissy if you don't promptly text her back and acknowledge you'll do everything on that "honey-do" list. Once again, ponder how you got here, come up with a concrete solution to get yourself out, and until then proceed normally. Your wife asks you do run errands after work because you're a loser who has no friends to hang out with, or hobbies to pursue, after work. You start improving your life and your marriage by fixing that, not by abruptly not answering texts. Not answering texts is just going to piss her off and have her accusing you of being an asshole.

Are you an asshole simply because you didn't answer your wife's text on demand? Of course not. Do you have the frame to resist her calling you an asshole without losing your cool? Without DEERing? Without blurting out maybe you'd respond to her texts if she put out once in awhile? For a lot of us still struggling to choke down the Red Pill, the answer to those questions is "no." Until your frame is strong enough, then simply continue to comply with most of the old rules your wife perceives (ie. she is entitled to your attention unconditionally), while you act to subvert them over time.

Because your wife will ask you to do some annoying errand, and you'll say you have a softball game, and she'll get pissed off. Pissed off something else has a higher priority for her attention than herself. But those are easy enough Shit Tests to deal with, because you'll be arguing about softball, and you'll never have to say anything that sounds remotely close to, "you're not entitled to my attention." You will simply act, over a sustained and gradual period of time, in a way that changes the rules without even her realizing it.

[–]longboarder550[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Awesome post, thanks for copying it here. Informative and inspiring!

[–]longboarder550[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Congrats on your success with #2. It's awesome to hear that this is doable, it would be another thing altogether if nobody had success stories. Thanks for your advice on #5 also. I'll do my best not to go too crazy with anything and just be a bit more distant.

[–]InvincibleKraken2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

A lot of this sounds like you haven't internalized things yet. What are you reading from the MRP sidebar?

You're trying to manufacture an outcome rather than organically letting things arise. You don't flirt in front of her but you want female out-of-town friends to leave flirtatious comments on your Facebook page (of all things) so that your wife might catch dread. This isn't high school.

Your progress will be your own. No one can give you a timeline because we can't account for any of the controls -- someone might says "After three months, you should see X," but if, halfway through month 3, you lose frame in a big way and don't even know it because this is so new to you, you won't hit the benchmark. Then you'll come in here, bitter and vomiting up a victim puke.

If you found MMSLP helpful, are you developing and implementing a MAP? If you are trying to work out a framework of dread, have you read /u/bluepillprofessor 's book?

[–]longboarder550[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

It's a fair point, and I won't lie, I am still working quite hard to internalize all of the new information I'm taking in. So far I have read Athol's MMSLP, and am halfway through his follow up book. Interestingly I did read NMMNG back in 2011(!) But the concepts didn't take full hold at the time. I plan to re-read that one.

I agree that my Facebook idea is juvenile at best. I can often feel quite desperate to find a quick fix, but this is part of my overall learning process. I'm prone to trying to find specific tools to fix specific problems, and that can also lead me to having rigid expectations. It's helped me in my professional life, so it's hard to try and find another path for this. But I know I need to.

I have written my own MAP that I feel is tailored to what I need to work on the most, although because I'm still learning it is still under construction and evolving. But briefly my MAP has listed in order of importance:

  1. Be happy and radiate positive energy
  2. Initiate sex but handle rejection correctly (no butthurt, no begging)
  3. Develop alpha characteristics, minimize or Beta characteristics.
  4. Cultivate healthy "dread"
  5. Keep wardrobe up to date and stylish
  6. Maintain and incrementally improve physical fitness.

These are the ordering I decided on for me- they of course do not apply to others (e.g. someone who is overweight would put #6 at #1)

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's not really a MAP, it's more like a set of guiding principles. Needs to be more concrete.

[–]InvincibleKraken0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the reply. I can see you are working on things and not full of ego. That's a great start.

Why is dread so important to you?

I like your approach. My caution going forward is that you recognize you are on a journey...and the destination is out there (perhaps farther out than you know or would even like). Do not mistake "mile markers" or "stopping points" as the destination. Your MAP will take you there.

[–]longboarder550[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's a good question, but I've put some emphasis on dread because there is such a strong safety net in place right now, in terms of how I've behaved in my marriage so far. I've given her so few reasons to be concerned that I'm practically a house pet. Maybe that's a small exaggeration, but simply stated there is no "other" for my wife to feel anxiety over in any sense. And because I'm fit and look good (or at least not bad), it's one of the tools I hope to employ instead of just lifting even more heavy stuff. That hopefully will go hand in hand with an escalation in confidence and stopping the nice guy BS.

[–]InvincibleKraken0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds well thought out.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This will repeat others here, but it's my take and experience.

1 and 2 -- The one month for each year is just a rule of thumb. Give yourself and her 13 months to change for the better. 13 months also means to go slow to give her a chance to react to your real changes. After 13 months if she is not what you want then it's time to move on.

3 --The hardest part is facing your own demons and realize that you are lacking as a man. It's too easy to blame others for your own weakness or ignorance, own your shit and be better than that. Overcoming this and the rest is easy. Don't be afraid of confrontations with yourself and others. To be a leader you have to put yourself out there, if you are not used to that then that is hard at first. Once you get into it all... it's second nature and easy like learning any new skill set. You will screw up a bit at first but it will get better. You'll be happy with yourself, so that will make her happy also. Happy (man's) life, happy wife.

4/5 --don't worry about dread at this point... to early or maybe not even needed. This is why there is the 1 month rule of thumb to stop you from going Rambo.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your supportive reply- you have an excellent point about pacing things a bit and avoiding the Rambo stuff. I really wish I could solve it all now!, but that's part of my journey.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Welcome brother.

Most of the answers you seek is in the sidebar readings and in many posts.

I will give a go at #4 and #5. Trying to get your wife to see you flirting with other women will always backfire. It is seeking mommies approval. When the time comes women will flirt with you in front of your wife out of their own volition. Just improve yourself for yourself and it happens. The difference will be that you will be used to it because you have been doing it by yourself. You will have BMT.....Big Match Temperament.

The whole facebook thing.....it is cringeworthy. Seriously get that shit out of your mind.....

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the welcome :) I'm sure you're right about the flirting topic. As I'm processing this more- I'm actually sort of wondering if there isn't a part of me that wants her to see it just from a self satisfying position. I may have some cynicism / jaded thoughts. I know this is about me and not her, but being rejected for sex for so long has left some wounds, irregardless of the reason. It's hard not to place that anger on her. But I know that's anger misplaced. :/

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

At your point active dread is just going to fuck it up. I'd just focus on being more assertive, a little less available, keeping commitments, good posture, better clothes, etc. all that general good man stuff.

Also, you can't reasonably expect anything. If you do you'll just be disappointed and get butthurt.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this comment. This is by and large exactly what I plan to do from here.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You sound very similar to me, so a few experiences:

A) Going rambo sets you back a few weeks each time, avoid it.

B) Sounds like your trying to impress and that you have oneitis - if she finds out you will be behind.

C) You have to let your wife experience all of what you want her to (dread etc) naturally. If she finds your setups it sets you back.

It takes time. You will see the effect in bits and pieces at the start, build on these. The others are right, the only way is to do it for you. Wanting results faster will lead to my above 3 negative outcomes, which set you back. Ask me how I know.

But you are right, rp thinking is a massive lightbulb. I read for 3 weeks straight.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man. Regarding B, you are absolutely correct. As to C, I am learning this pretty quickly from you and others. It's one thing to read about dread and it's benefits and another to know how to apply it to my situation specifically. Thanks for this.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'll do nearly anything to make my marriage hot again. I even thought up some convoluted plans to recruit some female friends

and you were talking about beta behavior? fucking weak right there.

This one point. Remember this one point.

The relationship is NOT your job. NOT your responsibility. That's her job.

Your job is be a man of value and keep going. She will come or she will not. If she truly wants to be with you she will know what to do. Hell she already does. You just have to be a man worth fucking and being with.

With this mindset I can already see you are not.

All I know is that I'm a unit of animated carbon walking around on a spinning ball of rock, orbiting a ball of fire and that my experience here can be good or bad, but that nobody else, let along the universe, cares or will do anything else for me either way. I want to make it as good as it can possibly be!!

what the fuck is this?

You talk to damn much.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Can you elaborate a bit more on the "relationship is not your responsibility" idea? This, as with so many other ideas here, is a new one to me that I haven't fully understood. And yes I can talk a bit. :)

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men do things. Women "do" relationships.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Even if I had the time. You wouldn't understand.

You need to start at the beginning. I hear that's always a great place to start.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

what should I reasonably expect after 3 months, 6 months, 8 months, 12 months?

--3 months: 10% increase in maximum bench and decrease in BMI. You get a handle on shit tests.

--6 months: 20% increase in maximum bench and decrease in BMI. You get busy taking care of all the shit you did not care of before. Main event happens or is about to happen. You are getting looks from other women you never did before. You are practicing talking to other women.

--1 year: Good Marriage...or divorce pending but either way you have plates lined up so you don't care.


Nah, that is Dread and self improvement and taking advantage of the known attraction cues.

Can you share any tips for doing this "right"? Since I started flirting (again, first time in 13+ years), I've enjoyed it immensely. But if I only flirt when the Mrs. is not around, I don't think I'm really getting the full benefit.

The benefit is an increase in your confidence and OPTIONS. It has nothing to do with your wife directly.

female friends (who live in other cities) to make flirtatious facebook comments on my facebook wall

I have never seen this work. Dread works because you internalize outcome independence. If this helps you increase your OI then it will "work." If it doesn't then it is just a covert contract.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That internalization you speak of seems to be a common theme in the replies and makes very good sense. My Facebook idea is really just a stunt with no muscle behind it, because if it flops then I actually have no cards in my hand. But if there was something more genuine it would show through, e.g. passing fitness tests with ease because the "options" would be sitting in the back of mind. Very interesting.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Like we always say...we are not going to teach you how to dodge bullets...but when your ready, you won't have to.

[–]TurdDoctor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm fairly new at this but will try to give you some helpful advice- read, workout, REALLY work at controlling your emotions. Try to not get angry, depressed, or otherwise have a shitty outlook. Stay positive, don't care so much about her and understand that MRP is really about you. Things happen slowly, a little forward, a little back, and then forward. Just keep the trend forward, there's alot of work to do ON YOU, you can't negotiate desire but you can change you for the better and have a better life (regardless of whatever she does or doesn't do).

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Op, your overthinking as evident by your replies. Yes the long game is your top priority (improve you).

There are some fun short game ideas to play with. Can't remember which book this is all from, and is certainly not complete. But try out some of these :

Kiss her on the forehead as a preference

Wrestle with your kids

Physically move her (to access a draw etc)

Slap ass

Occasionally drive like a bit of a maniac (in control) or any slightly risky behaviour good in moderation. (I do ocean swims and spearfish, my wife likes to recite this to her girlfriends)

Do something like pay the entire bill for dinner with extended family

Sit at head of table

Make or fix shit.

Get out some of her lingerie and just leave it on the bed (time it / bit risky)

Be cheeky at the right time.


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

if you work for 13 months straight, your wife will fuck you again.

oh, wait... thats not how it works.

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

It's a long and winding road with a blurry destination and an even less clear route? That's how it feels at my starting position. But I'm willing to do the work- if I can figure out the right work to do. But I start with an open mind...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

you are very likely missing my point

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You're saying that simply putting my head down and "working" towards a specific and predefined goal for a set duration is a terrible idea, that's what I got, am I right?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

depends. whats your goal?

if your goal is relationship or wife, then its a horrible idea

if your goal is yourself, sure go for it

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I see your point clearly now. Thanks!

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

The most telling detail in that wall of text was you going out of your way to clarify that any flirting would be "with agreed boundaries." Boundaries are fine, but do what you want, not what mom says is ok. The whole point of flirting is to create some intentional ambiguity into an interaction.

Reading through your super polite replies in this thread, I think you need to cultivate a bit more of a "fuck off" attitude toward people in general. Like you said, nobody else in the universe cares, so why do you care so much what other people think?

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It's hard to articulate this well by punching characters on a tablet keyboard, but I'm not trying to be polite. What you're picking up on is gratitude. Your hearing the words of a man who has just found a secret door out of a certain type of hell, only he didn't know the hell was escapable, and so it's really a double whammy effect: you can have your cake and eat it too. Your prison sentence has been commuted, Aaaaand, we're giving you a Beverly hills address and a lambo. You can get rid of that wheel chair, and also compete in the Olympics. Like I said before, it looks like magic to me and I'm so excited to start a new chapter in my life. I can't help but feel gratitude to the book authors, Reddit community and YOU guys too.

But if it helps, that jizzmop who crooned about me being lazy can suck a nut. Fuck you!

[–]TurdDoctor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, we've all been there, relax, don't post anything for awhile. Read the sidebar and internalize it. Don't talk/write... just read/learn and work on yourself for now. Fuck...

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok. I still think you could turn the dial a bit more toward "go fuck yourself." Just tuck it away as something to think about down the line somewhere.

[–]nmjanus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Man, I loved your post. So much there could have been written by me and the feeling of not being alone is comforting.

Even though I would like to comment it all I'll focus on two things. First the time and expectation. I've also read the posts on people that makes big changes in relatively short time. I'm happy for them but for me it has not been like that. If anything it has gotten worse. Sad and frustrating, yes but logical. With what I know now it makes perfect sense.

I'm fairly successful in many areas of my life but towards my wife I have not only failed shit tests (failing to be alpha) I have also fucked up the comfort side of things. Hence, to my wife I'm nothing short of Omega (god damn, this is hard on the ego, but it is the truth). Early on I made some stupid moves which made me appear autistic. This in a time (pregnant) when she needed lots of comfort.

Even with lack of results so far I'm pushing ahead. It would be a big fat lie to say it's easy. It's fucking hard as hell. But like you, when I found MRP so much fell into place and even though it's hard I'm absolutely convinced it is the right thing to do.

Secondly, your upcoming trip to LA. I'm not you and your situation might be differ from mine. But here is my take on it. For this to work in a positive way you need to be perceived as high value by your wife. And you need a solid frame.

If you are ready, go for it but be careful trust is easy to ruin and hard to rebuild. I moved to fast in the beginning and are now paying the price. On the other hand you are far more experienced than I was when I moved ahead of myself, but what you are contemplating is also far more advanced than what I tried to pull :)

[–]longboarder550[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man, it's good to hear from you also. I had a feeling there were many more guys just like me, which was most of the inspiration for posting here to begin with. Appreciate hearing your experiences about moving too fast- I think I might have suffered the same fate if I hadn't gotten feedback from you and the others here. It's so frustrating because I can see the path forward, but to go that way you can't sprint :( Good luck with your journey also! I'm sure you'll make up for lost ground sooner than later.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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