FR: Months 1 and 2 (Plus a few questions)

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June 19, 2017
7 upvotes

Hi guys, this is my first time posting here and I just wanted to tell my story, ask a few questions, share a few tips, and get some feedback. Hopefully, some of the more veteran members of the board or others who are further along in the MRP journey can elaborate on the topics a bit and provide constructive criticism.

A brief background: I’m in my late 20s, married 4 years with a 3-year old, and have spent the last 2 months reading the sidebar, the Family Alpha blog, NMMNG, MMSLP and have begun to integrate the principles into my life little by little. I have been lifting (SL 5x5) and working on general fitness for 2 months as well. Like many others, a general lack of respect, scarcity of sex (1-2 times per month) and a decrease in quality sex (no more BJs, not allowed to eat pussy, missionary only) drove me to search for answers. The impetus for change followed a cringe-worthy “talk” that I initiated with my wife about the lack of sex and how I wasn’t getting my needs met. This beta-behavior led to a massive fight. Since then, my mantra has been “you cannot negotiate attraction” and I have worked to improve myself, raise my SMV, employ covert light dread, and regain my status as the family alpha.

FR Months 1 and 2: Fitness: I have been lifting and doing general cardio for 2 months. I’m around 20 - 25% BF and still 25 -30 lbs overweight (6’1”, 225 lb, down from 240). Wife is obese (~50 lbs overweight). After only 2 months, I already look visibly leaner and I’m sleeping much better. I have so much more energy and my sex drive has actually increased (she already couldn’t keep up ¯_(ツ)_/¯ ) since I’ve been lifting (3x per week, cardio 2x per week). I’m progressing slowly and steadily with the weights (5 lbs to the barbell per workout; e.g. StrongLifts 5x5) as I was severely out of shape. I am still decently strong and have ok muscle mass as I lifted fairly regularly throughout high school and undergrad. Once my cardio fitness is acceptable and I lose another 15 lbs. I’m going to cut some of the cardio and focus more on developing strength and muscle mass.

My wife has been going to the gym and walking on the track for about an hour 3x per week and doing a few exercises on the weight machines. I have encouraged her efforts and not criticized her methods despite my belief that she needs to up the intensity and improve her diet if she wants to start seeing meaningful results. I have improved my diet (cutting sugar and liquid calories, limiting fast-food to once per week) and cut out binge-drinking completely (was killing a 12 pack of light beer nearly every day at my worst point). I still have ~3 good beers once or twice per week. I smoke weed occasionally but I am planning on eliminating that behavior as it is a psychological crutch for me when things are difficult and it makes my thinking fuzzy and impairs my judgment/word choice during conversations.

Frame: So far, I have practiced STFU and not DEERing during her shit tests as these strategies seem to be the easiest to pull off while still creating some reasonable results. I’ve improved some, but I usually tend to ignore her spewing hate or bullshit rather than using AA or AM as those responses are still difficult for me to pull off with a believable level of confidence. I probably need to get a bit ballsier in my responses, but I’ll be honest, she usually destroys me if a shit test devolves into verbal sparring. Her shit tests are typically fairly mild, but in the past I had a poor tendency of making them worse and digging my own grave due to my mouth and my immature need to try and make her understand my point of view through logic. I still have a way to go in this area and, occasionally, I let her words elicit an emotional response from me despite my attempts to remain stoic and exude a DGAF attitude.

This has probably been the toughest area for me to see results as my wife is naturally very witty and strong-willed compared to most women. It has also been difficult not to go full Rambo/autistic in this area as many times I’ve been tempted to just brute wrest control of a situation when she is being mouthy or acting out of line. It doesn’t help that I’m so goddamn angry and resentful towards her and for letting my own behavior create an environment where she deems this as acceptable. By far, this has been the hardest part of the pill for me to swallow: that, ultimately, I am responsible for this due to my beta behaviors over the years. She wasn’t like this when we first married. I’ve been trying to make slow, steady progress in this area without disrupting the status quo so abruptly that she starts to think that I’m overtly up to something. It is obvious that I want to improve my fitness and get more sex, but I want to avoid her finding out about fight club at all costs as I’m trying to employ some light covert dread through self-improvement. She considers herself a feminist and her discovering MRP would severely impede my attempts to improve the marriage.

Sex: Sex has improved quite a bit, but still has a way to go. I initiate nearly nightly (goal: 3 times per week), but if she says no, I now drop it immediately and don’t let it alter my mood or actions toward her the rest of the night (no whining, no covert contracts, and don’t try to talk her into anything). Again, understanding that you cannot negotiate attraction has helped me tremendously. I’m averaging sex 1-2 times per a week now compared to 1 to 2 times per month previously. I got oral back on the table though she still won’t get on top or let me do doggy…yet. One tip I would like to share with you guys that has worked well for me and that I haven’t seen mentioned much on here is this: If she says no, accept the no gracefully and tell her you’re going to go masturbate instead and that she is free to come join you if she wants. Then just leave and go do it. Half of the time, she has ended up coming to join me for sex, and the other half I still came and passed out afterward. No fuss. Just be confident and believable while holding no expectations of her. I have quit using porn to masturbate and instead do it freely in our bedroom without shame. This works well for us. YMMV.

The other thing that has helped me with sex is to quit worrying about her pleasure. I’m going to get mine, whether she enjoys the experience is completely up to her. I was a bit of a bedroom technician before, always preoccupied with her pleasure and making sure she got off prior to PIV intercourse. Since MRP, I have begun to practice immersion (Sex God Method), solely focusing on my own arousal and pleasure while trying to eliminate extraneous thoughts and just living in the moment. She has responded well to this. The difference? I’m no longer stressed about my performance, it’s more enjoyable for me, I come off as more dominant, and she’s still usually having at least one really strong vaginal orgasm.

Sex feels great and we have always had great physical chemistry, but it is still lacking visually and psychologically for me. I’m sure she would say the same about me.

Questions:

  1. How do you tell your wife “no” or get her into your frame following a reasonable request without coming off as autistic or a douchebag? Every time this scenario happens and I say no or try to use AA or AM, she huffs and puffs, calls me an asshole and gives me the cold shoulder the rest of the night. I act indifferent (DGAF) about it, but there has to be a better strategy than this or maybe I’m just not getting it. This is an especially difficult behavior for me to change because she is conditioned to me being compliant when she asks me to do something nicely. However, I do my fair share of household duties/taking care of my son so I believe these are shit tests (or she’s just fucking lazy) and I want to make some progress in this area without it devolving into a fight and losing progress.

  2. How do you deal with lingering resentment and anger toward your wife? I’m working on owning my shit and accepting the fact that if I had maintained alpha behaviors and not been a drunk captain more often than not throughout the marriage, I wouldn’t be in this situation. My poker face has improved and I don’t often betray the raging storm brewing inside anymore, but sometimes I just want to fucking next her because it doesn’t feel worth the effort. Maybe I’m deluded about my prospects if I was single (grass is greener, etc.), but I know for a fact my SMV is higher than hers. Channeling rage into the weights helps, but how do you develop true outcome independence and accept that, ultimately, you can only change your behaviors, not hers? I understand the principles, but I’m struggling to internalize it, and sometimes it keeps me up at night.

  3. Regarding sex, how do you handle legitimate physical limitations your wife may have? For example, my wife has chronic lower back pain and sometimes she says it’s too painful to have sex. Other times, she says she is too sore from the gym. While I understand that these scenarios are real, I suspect that if her horniness/attraction was high enough for me, she would still be DTF. I know this because I fucked her silly when I had bruised ribs a few weeks ago because we both wanted it even though it was super painful for me. I think she uses pain as a get out of jail free card rather than because she is actually in too much pain for sex. Is there a good way to handle this scenario without losing frame or completely dismissing her pain?

  4. Do you have any tips to share about how to internalize the concepts here and strategies for being happy despite things not changing and/or changing very slowly? I probably just need to be more patient and wait for her to come around (1,000 foot rope) or not, but I still feel that I’m working toward many disparate goals that I’m making varying degrees of progress on.


Post Information
Title FR: Months 1 and 2 (Plus a few questions)
Author vigilantcaptain
Upvotes 7
Comments 19
Date 19 June 2017 08:24 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205979
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6i93m1/fr_months_1_and_2_plus_a_few_questions/
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Comments

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy

I would caution on masturbating both publicly and privately. You need that drive and anger to fix your life. Secondly, the AMOG doesn't masturbate. The beta chimpanzees in the corner are the ones wanking it. It's not attractive or Alpha.

Other than that keep at it. I would caution on setting the most hardest of boundaries until you have established frame and physical attractiveness. You need to be the prize before you can get into hardcore boundaries and changes. Start hitting singles and doubles though as this will build your frame.

[–]vigilantcaptain[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Are there any RP resources that talk specifically and in-depth about masturbation? I ask because you are the second to mention that this is an unattractive, beta behavior which naturally seems intuitive so I tend to agree with both of you. However, I initially tried this approach as an alternative to negotiating/kino when her body language is ice cold and to my surprise she joined me (for intercourse, not a handjob). This has happened a couple times now. In my mind, (and maybe it's just my hamster) this worked because because telling your wife your going to masturbate shows you DGAF and your going to take care of your sexual urges with or without her.

Another point you mentioned is needing the sex drive to work on improving oneself, however, as was pointed out above, I'm already fucking thirsty so I don't know if cutting out masturbation would make things worse or not. I've already cut out porn. I would be interested in hearing some opinions on this.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Jerking it is definitely Beta but you are doing it like an Alpha. If you really DNGAF then that is your frame. Don't let these fuckers on this board- or your wife- shame you into anything else.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed. What message do you think you are actually sending if you're willing to sit around nursing blue balls because you somehow need to seek a woman's permission to touch your dick? Deep down women already fear that we're all secretly shit lords pretending to be civilized. Do you think a woman who wants your commitment is going to gamble that being an unsatisfactory sex object is going to work out long term? When you clearly have so little shame that you're willing to take the matter into your own hands? Logic people. Try it.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rub one out like a man. Its the champagne of victory.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

One of the few times I'd openly disagree with you.

If he's doing it with true DNGAF and she's already being receptive to his advances but giving him a soft no, then sure, it can be fun to mutually masturbate or enjoy her HJ.

If he's doing it because he got a hard NO, she has no interest, and she's doing it just to shut him up? I can't think of a more beta thing to do than tell her he's going upstairs to jerk off, wether or not she ends up joining him.

To me it screams toddler crying cause mommy doesn't love him.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are probably correct. I am just pointing out that it all depends on his attitude towards it.

[–]rocknrollchuck3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your wife joined you because she still loves you, and pitied you enough to put out rather than know you were rubbing one out by yourself. How do you expect "light dread" to happen if she knows your best option when she turns you down is your hand? It's probably the most beta thing you could do. Stop doing that and use that frustration as fuel for improvement in your life. When it gets to be too much and you can't stand it anymore, THEN rub one out if you must to ease the pressure a bit. But don't let her know.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Never give a woman the idea that your only other option is to go and spank your monkey. It gives her the idea that she has the only source, and therefore control, of your sexual satisfaction.

That's why you leave. Remove yourself from the area. Leave the house. Get in the car, go to the gym, whatever. Don't do this as a kneejerk to the hard no, which is tough.

She'll get conditioned to the fact that bad behaviour on her part results in lack of attention/presence from you.

She should be worried that you'll be balls deep in another woman if she decides to not fuck you.

Dread and all that. No Rambo though, I sense a disturbance in the force with your latent anger and 2 months of improvement resulting in you forming the idea you deserve something for it. You're doing this for yourself, remember.

[–]NordViking21372 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm still new at this as well so I'm only going to address #2

What helped me is realizing that me reacting negatively whether it's anger, resentment, etc isn't going to make things better for me or my relationship. You're doing this whole thing to create a better life for yourself and hopefully fix all the relationship issues as well. Having those feelings and acting that way will not accomplish that goal. Keep that as your mindset. Your happiness isn't dependent on her, what she's done, what she's doing, or what she'll do. Forgiveness isn't for the other person, it's for you.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

So many points to make, but way too much to type out on mobile....

1: you're still not attractive enough. I don't mean just physically.

2: stop setting a schedule that you have to initiate every day. Initiate when you want to, don't when you don't. You sound thirsty as fuck.

3: inviting her to help you masturbate? WTF. Cucks go off to the corner to masturbate when they get shot down. That sounds unattractive as fuck.

4: she's 50lbs overweight. That's why her back hurts. I know. My back pain stopped hurting when I lost the 45lb plate strapped to my gut. If you were Hawt though the back pain wouldn't matter.

5: you're still early in the process, read and sidebar. You've got a long way to go.

I'm sure there's a ton I'm forgetting, but I can't scroll back through your post on mobile.

TLDR: lift and sidebar and stop jerking off in the corner cause your wife won't put out. Basically, slow down and chill out.

Edit: also your wife is not special, and asshole is a compliment.

[–]freshona1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

To ride on #4, back pain might be a bit more legitimate reason, but being sore from the gym is a bullshit reason. 50lbs overweight and not losing it means her workout, as you've mentioned, is shit. There's nothing to get sore about.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How do you tell your wife “no”

We could have an entire book on that question on the sidebar.

How do you deal with lingering resentment and anger toward your wife?

You get over it. Would you get mad at your dog for pissing on the floor if you never taught it NOT to piss on the floor? That would be pretty stupid, right? So why get mad at your wife for not fucking you right or for shit testing when you never taught her not to do it or yourself to respond appropriately.

Regarding sex, how do you handle legitimate physical limitations your wife may have?

I just turn her over and push her face into the pillow.

Do you have any tips to share about how to internalize the concepts

Read and read some more. You can't spoon feed this. You have to take the time to wrap your brain around the contents.

[–]Chinchilla_the_Hun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Along with heavy reading (consumption), you also need meditation (digestion). Cut out diversions and distractions (meaningless entertainment, video games, porn, even news or radio...especially noise for the sake of noise) and allow your mind to simmer on the concepts. Most people are uncomfortable with silence and/or themselves, so this is often a tall order.

Also, get used to trial and error. Until you can read your wife and predict her behavior, you're going to fail repeatedly.

[–]thunderbeyond1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty new here myself, will respond to #4.

There are two "transformation" FRs that come up- the steady gains after months of work; and the train-wreck Rambo.

Seems to me like the better way to go about things is to take your time and not expect quick results. Personally I'm about 2 months in, and yeah while I'd love a pickup in sex quality and frequency, all the things I could have but don't... I just gotta be patient.

Rambo FRs are like sports highlights reels where someone gets fucked up in a tackle... you wince, you watch, you thank god it wasn't you.

[–]TopOfTheEighth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't have a ton to add in general, but here are a few minor things that might help.

This has probably been the toughest area for me to see results as my wife is naturally very witty and strong-willed compared to most women.

There are some eight-year-olds who are naturally very witty and strong-willed compared to most eight-year-olds, but that doesn't mean you take them seriously.

If she says no, accept the no gracefully and tell her you’re going to go masturbate instead and that she is free to come join you if she wants.

You'll probably get push-back from commentors on this. The idea is that announcing that you're going to go jack off just illustrates to her plain as day that you have no other options, and it can be seen as unattractive and counter-productive along these lines. Some people follow this line of thought, and some people don't (I'm in the latter group), but it's something to consider. I personally think if you do it from a strong frame, then it doesn't make a fuck. This gets disputed back and forth here.

To your four questions:

How do you tell your wife “no” or get her into your frame following a reasonable request without coming off as autistic or a douchebag?

When you stop caring what her response is (ie: you get out of her frame), this will start falling together for you.

How do you deal with lingering resentment and anger toward your wife?

This chills out over time for a lot of guys when you start getting better results, and for others, it never does regardless of the results. You kind of just have to wait and see, but focusing on yourself instead of focusing on her helps a lot either way.

I think she uses pain as a get out of jail free card rather than because she is actually in too much pain for sex. Is there a good way to handle this scenario without losing frame or completely dismissing her pain?

You're right. She doesn't have the balls to just say no, so she has to make up some shit. Just treat it like any other no.

Do you have any tips to share about how to internalize the concepts here and strategies for being happy despite things not changing and/or changing very slowly?

Start by dropping the covert contract. You aren't trying to change things; you're trying to change yourself. If things change as a result of that, then cool. If not, then that's cool too. You'll deal with it as it comes.

...but I still feel that I’m working toward many disparate goals that I’m making varying degrees of progress on.

On this point in particular, that's completely fine. Have faith in the systematic improvement. Remember that you're working on improving yourself for the sake of improving yourself. This is its own end. It's not a means to an end.

[–]rocknrollchuck-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

  1. She gives you the cold shoulder the rest of the night because it works. She can feel your frustration, women are very intuitive and she KNOWS she's getting to you.

  2. You deal with it by becoming so awesome that the resentment and anger disappears, and is replaced by pity for her. Don't worry, it will be a while before that happens. For Outcome Independence, read How to become outcome independent using a stoic trick

  3. Being overweight will contribute to her pain, no doubt. Most likely though it's an excuse the majority of the time. Get hawt first and see if things change (hint: they will).

  4. For 6 months, play the nice card

[–]vigilantcaptain[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great advice man. The nice card makes so much sense for avoiding some obvious fuckups until I become more attractive. Going to focus on holding nice card frame, working through my anger, stop masturbating unless absolutely necessary, and read, read, and read some more. Thanks for all the responses guys.

[–]thunderbeyond1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just saved that post from 2. Thanks for the link.



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