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FR: The opener is not important, but OI, abundance, and confidence are

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June 14, 2017
11 upvotes

An FR in two parts.

Part 1: Cold approaching in the supermarket

My goal this week is just to initiate conversation with women I see at the grocery store. Attractive ones if possible.

Last night I hit Whole Foods with a goal of 7 approaches. It was tough. I'm new at this. The biggest excuse: I didn't have a good opener. "I have no good reason to talk to this girl; I'd just be wasting her time."

But I stuck at it, mostly with variations on "pardon me, which of these food products is superior?". I kept thinking about the 3-second rule, and on the last two I managed to just do it: see her, approach her, speak to her.

I had no idea what to say, so I had to just blurt out something -- and it worked great. "God, remember when there was only 3 of everything and you didn't have to spend forever choosing between 15 kinds of chocolate chips?" (To a woman my age or older.) "Hey, wow I didn't know they had fresh herbs here, this is awesome, did you know that? ramble ramble ramble". Both of these led to the woman genuinely contributing in an intelligent conversation. That's the goal here, so this is great.

I was so psyched to see this happening, I opened two more on my way out. "[laughing] Oh, those shorts are fantastic. [laughing] Where the heck did you find those?" (To a very fashionable woman in shorts with a ridiculous peacock print.) And, "Hi. Do you know if there's a Starbucks around here?"

The lesson for me: the opener is neither magic nor very important. Making the opening is important, and the subsequent conversation is what counts.

On the way home, I listened to RooshV's podcast on the 9 immutable laws of pick-up, which happened to include rule #4, "The opener is the least impactful part of the pick up."

Part 2: Banging my wife

Came home late, spent 5 minutes listening to the wife and then got ready for sleep. So did she.

When I came to the bed she was already curled up to sleep but I saw her face looked pretty stressed. Not my problem, could be from anything. But what the hell, I've got some energy to be kind and give her a quick back rub. What follows is night and day different from my recent failed attempt at hot bath, oil massage, and sex.

I told her to lay out flat and then rubbed her back. I decided in my mind that this was not a contract for sex, it was my gift to her.

Along the way I decided I would make love to this woman, slowly but by my choice. I also decided that if I reached a hard no, I could let that go with dignity, "Okay, your loss." This is a gift to her, which I expect to enjoy greatly; but it's not her gift to me, nor payment for anything I've done.

I anticipated her most common cockblocker, "This isn't working," and prepared my response, "It's working fine for me," but it never came up. I rolled her over face-up, without asking as I normally would in a massage, and made a point of moving her physically into different positions as part of the massage.

I exacerbated things she normally doesn't like, because I wanted those things: she usually likes it dark; I made a point of turning on a small light. She protested having her panties removed because there was still a pad there (shark week ended yesterday); I removed them and made a point of not replying to her protest.

Aiming for some extra tension, I put a towel over her eyes and said nothing to her protest, and kept it there until she was clearly aroused.

I made a point not to smile at her all this time.

After sex, I intentionally teased her, smirking but not smiling, about things she often has teased me about. "Gee, what a mess you've made," and such. Then we lay there talking some and I told a couple of funny stories (funny to me, anyway, I had a laugh blast telling them).

As we dozed off to sleep, I rolled over and touched her hand with mine, and she squeezed it gently. It occurred to me, that hasn't happened in a long time.

Caveats:

  • This is not a how-to manual for making love to my wife. Boring nice guys keeps notes on "what worked last time".
  • This looks to me like "sprinkling Alpha" and "fake it till you make it" and "applying a few techniques." I acknowledge I have much work ahead in internalizing an abundant mindset.

Lessons:

  • OI frees me to be myself.
  • Abundance mindset is a good foundation for OI.
  • On the way to real OI and abundance mindset, confidence has specific outward manifestations that can be learned through study, observation, and practice.
  • Hitting my cold-approach goals may just have given me a confidence boost that I didn't even notice.

Post Information
Title FR: The opener is not important, but OI, abundance, and confidence are
Author NoneSuchAs
Upvotes 11
Comments 29
Date 14 June 2017 02:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206013
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6h8047/fr_the_opener_is_not_important_but_oi_abundance/
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Comments

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

I stuck at it, mostly with variations on "pardon me, which of these food products is superior?"

This is a good opener (when worded correctly, obviously, and not like a Grey Poupon commercial) when you're approaching a girl at Whole Foods. It's short and to the point, without a lot of extra words trying to explain yourself or why you're asking or giving unnecessary details and backstory, as though you're some kind of loser who needs to come up with an excuse to talk to a woman. And it's innocuous instead of a direct hit. And it doesn't ask her any personal information or divulge any of yours. It's general meaningless small talk, which is how women feel closer to people.

"God, remember when there was only 3 of everything and you didn't have to spend forever choosing between 15 kinds of chocolate chips?" (To a woman my age or older.) "Hey, wow I didn't know they had fresh herbs here, this is awesome, did you know that? ramble ramble ramble".

Both of these are okay follow-ups, if a woman answers your initial probe with more than two words, and has a positive tone of voice and body language. When a woman indicates mild interest to your initial probe (by not blowing you off, dismissing herself, or using short statements and poor body language to indicate her disinterest), trying to strike up a casual conversation about stupid bullshit and nothing personal is step #2.

I opened two more on my way out. "[laughing] Oh, those shorts are fantastic. [laughing] Where the heck did you find those?" (To a very fashionable woman in shorts with a ridiculous peacock print.) And, "Hi. Do you know if there's a Starbucks around here?"

The first is fine at a bar, but has a good chance of blowing it at a grocery store. The second is fine as an initial opener.

On the way home, I listened to RooshV's podcast on the 9 immutable laws of pick-up, which happened to include rule #4, "The opener is the least impactful part of the pick up."

This is true. "Excuse me. Is that a good brand of protein bar?" is just as good of an opener as some dumb-ass story about your best friend keeping pictures of his ex-girlfriends, or some try-hard attempt to neg a girl for her shoes. If she thinks you're not ugly, you'll get a friendly response with good body language, which is your cue to strike up a conversation. If she doesn't give you that friendly response regarding protein bars, she definitely wasn't going to give you a friendly response over some ludicrous PUA opener.

I decided in my mind that this was not a contract for sex, it was my gift to her.

You decided you were going to use this as leverage for sex, but that you'd deliberately try really hard not to be butt-hurt about it if it didn't work. That's like a half-contract.

I also decided that if I reached a hard no, I could let that go with dignity, "Okay, your loss." I anticipated her most common cockblocker, "This isn't working," and prepared my response, "It's working fine for me," but it never came up.

Which is why you were anticipating her moves and pre-planned your responses.

As we dozed off to sleep, I rolled over and touched her hand with mine, and she squeezed it gently. It occurred to me, that hasn't happened in a long time.

This is a very good sign. A lot of wives will fuck their loser husbands to grease the wheels and keep the paychecks coming. But 5 seconds after the act, they're rushing to the bathroom to sit on the toilet and get that nasty loser-semen out of them. And there's little or no post-sex cuddling or touching. She just wants to be done with her loser man.

You know you're in a decent place in your wife's eyes if she is spontaneously physically touching you during the day. Like she probably did back when you were dating. And if she's responsive to your touch and touches you back. When your wife shrinks away from your touch, or glowers at you and asks what you want or what you're doing, or is completely impassive and doesn't acknowledge that you're touching her, you're in a bad place.

[–]drty_prRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

A lot of wives will fuck their loser husbands to grease the wheels and keep the paychecks coming. But 5 seconds after the act, they're rushing to the bathroom to sit on the toilet and get that nasty loser-semen out of them

A few months into the process, I made a statement in an OYS that this always bothered me. Guys said "when you're alpha enough, this will stop". She now lays on me until I get up. She hasn't fell asleep afterwards yet, but she is fanatical about the sheets.

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

To be fair, nobody wants to sleep in moist sheets that have semen in them.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

I applaud that you are taking the time to analyze your experience and improve yourself. You recognize that you have work to do and you aren't ashamed of that. You have the right attitude and I think you will do well. That said, this is not what sex looks like from a woman who desires you. I'm skipping the whole approaching part. That's whatever. You're getting used to taking to other women.

Came home late, spent 5 minutes listening to the wife and then got ready for sleep. So did she.   When I came to the bed she was already curled up to sleep but I saw her face looked pretty stressed. Not my problem, could be from anything. But what the hell, I've got some energy to be kind and give her a quick back rub. What follows is night and day different from my recent failed attempt at hot bath, oil massage, and sex.

Not my problem is more for like... Hey, I'm grabbing a beer with Mike, and she gets pissy because she doesn't have anyone to hang out with.

I told her to lay out flat and then rubbed her back. I decided in my mind that this was not a contract for sex, it was my gift to her.

I think that's your hamster. You definitely wanted to bang. What exactly were you gifting her for anyway?

Along the way I decided I would make love to this woman, slowly but by my choice. I also decided that if I reached a hard no, I could let that go with dignity, "Okay, your loss." This is a gift to her, which I expect to enjoy greatly; but it's not her gift to me, nor payment for anything I've done.

It's more like you were aware of your covert contract. Being aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If your thought is to respond "Okay, your loss" then it's definitely a covert contract. Again, you are aware of the contract, which is good, but I do not believe it did not exist. You just recognized it and almost called yourself out in a way. Hey, it's a step in the right direction.

I anticipated her most common cockblocker, "This isn't working," and prepared my response, "It's working fine for me," but it never came up. I rolled her over face-up, without asking as I normally would in a massage, and made a point of moving her physically into different positions as part of the massage.

And you were even prepared to rebut her rebuttal of your contract terms.

I exacerbated things she normally doesn't like, because I wanted those things: she usually likes it dark; I made a point of turning on a small light. She protested having her panties removed because there was still a pad there (shark week ended yesterday); I removed them and made a point of not replying to her protest.

Her frame. This wouldn't have even occurred to you if you were in your own frame. The light was on and you took off her panties? Those are like totally mundane details but you were thinking about them because you were thinking about what she likes and what she would be thinking. Her frame.

Aiming for some extra tension, I put a towel over her eyes and said nothing to her protest, and kept it there until she was clearly aroused.

You sprinkled a little alpha on it and she responded. You have to become the man, then these actions are ten fold. Like... Throw her on the bed, flip her over, put a ball gag in her mouth and tie her hands back and fuck her with her pants pulled down around her knees kind of ten fold. What you just witnessed was her responding to a dominant move on your part. Albeit, reserved and timid. Keep exploring this.

I made a point not to smile at her all this time.

K?

After sex, I intentionally teased her, smirking but not smiling, about things she often has teased me about. "Gee, what a mess you've made," and such. Then we lay there talking some and I told a couple of funny stories (funny to me, anyway, I had a laugh blast telling them).

Not bad but you seem a little like a giddy boy who just got his covert contract fulfilled.

As we dozed off to sleep, I rolled over and touched her hand with mine, and she squeezed it gently. It occurred to me, that hasn't happened in a long time.

After sex is one of the best times EVER to give comfort and show a little vulnerability. Well done there. And I'm happy for you.
 
I would say, my evaluation of this comes down to this: You are still deep in your wife's frame, but you are taking steps in the right direction. You have witnessed a very small taste of what happens when you don't respond to her soft no's. Keep improving yourself and keep taking things up a notch. Remember that being aware of a covert contract is not the same as not having a covert contract.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Trying to pick up girls at Whole Foods of all places. Seriously man TFA already said it all but I just don't understand why you would even try to do this. So many better places.

Do you even understand the type of people who shop at Whole Foods? The only place to find people with their heads further up their ass would be Trader Joe's or Central Market. These people are the opposite end of the spectrum of people who shop at Walmart. In fact the only difference between the two is their bank account balance.

Guys who go out of their way to do all this just seem to be over analyzing the situation and Red Pill psychology to me. Not everything you read in a book needs to be specifically applied to your real life, but if you find pleasure in it go for it.

You would have better luck at Target doing this.

Edit: The only opener you need to use at WF is: "Hi. I see you like to overpay for groceries as well".

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do you even understand the type of people who shop at Whole Foods?

Maybe he's that type of person himself... maybe he likes aggressively vegan chicks in yoga pants and lululemon hoodies who spend the entire time talking on their phones...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (18 children) | Copy

A) You remind me of MilfHunter trying to get chicks at the grocery store. If you did that to my wife, she'd laugh in your face and walk without answering you, but if it build confidence, go for it.

B) I saw her face looked pretty stressed. Not my problem your wife's mental health is not your problem?

Aren't you trying to be the leader of your family, an 'alpha' male, someone who sets the standard from which all others will be measured?

If so, everything needs to be run through a filter of do I need to address this? If I saw my wife curled up on a bed, stressed out, I'd reach out and see what the deal was.

Obviously this is all contextual, but you seem to be taking everything here as black & white and the her feelings are her's doesn't apply to every situation.

I may be way off track, but it seems as though your wife has become apathetic and you view her lack of protest as compliance and desire.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

A) You remind me of MilfHunter trying to get chicks at the grocery store. If you did that to my wife, she'd laugh in your face and walk without answering you, but if it build confidence, go for it.

It's a good exercise.. just getting yourself chatting up random women at various places and whatnot.

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a good exercise..

And like everything else, you get better with practice. I find if I don't practice, I can get rusty pretty quickly. Practice keeps the abundance mentality that transfers....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I have conversations with men & women at random places, but never like that, seems weird.

If it works, then it works.

Coffee shop makes sense to me, grocery store, not so much.

[–]freshona2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

If you did that to my wife, she'd laugh in your face and walk without answering you...

Why are you bringing this up?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think OP cold approaching in a grocery store is a wasted effort.

Coffee shops, parks, other more 'open' places where people aren't getting in getting out would get him actually having to hold his own besides small chatter, escalation, etc.

A lot of women are looking to get in and get out.

EDIT To add what I've said before, if it works and build his confidence, then good on him. It's the location, not cold approaching itself which I find odd.

[–]freshona2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

But he's not approaching your wife. He's approaching strangers. You're not saying "your choice of venue for approaching is poor" but rather "my wife is so cool..". Granted, you get there in the end, but the whole bit about your wife being so cool is just out of place.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Then ignore it, I was just thinking of seeing OP at the grocery store near my house trying this on my wife, made me laugh, I shared.

Should I run the rest of my comments through you for approval?

[–]freshona0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure.



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