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My wife has a covert appointment with a divorce lawyer. Do I call her out on it?

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May 1, 2017
11 upvotes

Brief background: My wife and I have been married for 10 years. About three years ago she got fed up with the drunk captain and pretty much checked out of the marriage emotionally. We tried counselling etc which was just a waste of time and money.

I’ve been a little more than two months Married Red Pill and have been implementing my MAP very methodically. I’ve made good progress with leading, holding frame, responding to shit tests, getting in shape, and owning my own shit in general. The advice in response to my OYS posts has been very valuable.

The effect of my MAP in the short term has been to destabilize my shitty marriage, which may have been too far gone for all of this to have a positive effect. My wife has started sleeping in the guest bedroom, and we have very little interaction other than discussing logistics. There is zero physical affection shown between us other than the occasional platonic hug.

Late last week my wife called and made an appointment with a divorce lawyer (I saw this on our cell phone bill online). Today after she dropped off our youngest at pre-school, she called and told me she was on her way to an “interview”. She made it sound like a job interview, but I’m sure she is interviewing the divorce lawyer.

My question:
Do I call her out on this, (I hate being misled) and ask her how the appointment with the lawyer went? Or do I adhere to Outcome Indifference and let the chips fall where they may, and if she files, she files. Should I go and get my own lawyer so I'm ready if/when she files?


Post Information
Title My wife has a covert appointment with a divorce lawyer. Do I call her out on it?
Author JudgeDoom69
Upvotes 11
Comments 76
Date 01 May 2017 02:45 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206218
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/68md4l/my_wife_has_a_covert_appointment_with_a_divorce/
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Comments

[–]WesternhagenWinner23 points24 points  (12 children) | Copy

Assume she is going to file. Better get your ducks in a row and see a lawyer yourself. Ask him what steps you need to take to prepare. Also, ask if there is any advantage in filing first. Keep in mind that for all you know, she has already seen several lawyers in order to deny their use to you.

"Outcome independence" does not mean you sit back on your ass and react to what she does.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Better get your ducks in a row and see a lawyer yourself. Ask him what steps you need to take to prepare. Also, ask if there is any advantage in filing first.

Thanks, I'll do that.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Guess your bartending skills needed work then.

I wonder how you didnt see thus coming, even after you were 99% done even before stsrting mrp

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I still make a mean chocolate "martini".

If I had stumbled on MRP sooner, things may have gone on in a different direction.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

You would have bullshitted yourself into 'not needing it'

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Perhaps.

[–]recon_johnny2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

he has already seen several lawyers in order to deny their use to you.

Sorry, what does this mean? That, if she wanted to, she could visit/interview these lawyers, but put them on retainer, and if so, husband could not access them?

If she does not pay the retainer, are they free to talk with husband?

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I saw this on the Sopranos. Once a spouse makes the initial consultation, the law firm can't represent the other spouse.

[–]WesternhagenWinner4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

In the state where I am, if you talk to a divorce lawyer for an hour to discuss your case, which is a standard flat fee of that's not very high, a few hundred dollars or so, then your spouse is excluded from hiring them or talking to them. And the first thing they do, before they talk to you for that hour, is make sure your spouse hasn't already talked to them for an hour.

A retainer is a different thing - a lot more money - and that's what you pay when you are hiring them to act on your behalf during the divorce.

It is definitely possible, where I live, to deny the best lawyers to your wife if you're willing to spend the money on those one-hour consultations.

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Technically it depends on what was said in the meeting, not the fact that there was a meeting or how long it went, or whether someone paid money for it. It's actually is a decent tactic to lock your spouse out of all the "good" divorce attorneys in town. It's expensive because those attorneys know what is going on, and will charge you money for the consult. There are enough divorce attorneys in any mid-sized city to make this an expensive proposition. I would just stick with an attorney who only represents men in a divorce.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (17 children) | Copy

About three years ago she got fed up with the drunk captain and pretty much checked out of the marriage emotionally. We tried counselling etc which was just a waste of time and money.

The effect of my MAP in the short term has been to destabilize my shitty marriage, which may have been too far gone for all of this to have a positive effect. My wife has started sleeping in the guest bedroom

No one here knows your situation better than you. You're comments are clear that she has checked out. It appears she may have been asking you to end it, but only you would know this.

First, letting the chips fall.... is not a good strategy, it is less than optimal, regardless.

Everything you describe says she is ready to end it. Women just don't go interviewing lawyers for future reference. She is going to find out what she can get from you and how to get it. Now is not the time to ignore the obvious.

If you want to save your marriage, you can try a lot of things. BUT, if she has checked out already, you are wasting your time and money, and, her time and money. You describe a woman that has checked out, and, I think you know the reasons why. Anyone that admits the being a "drunk captain" is seldom telling the whole story of their shitty behavior, and, I really don't care to hear it right now. It is too late.

Yes, get your shit together and go see a lawyer within the next 24 hours. If served, do not voluntarily leave your home until you see your lawyer.

Outcome indifference is a silly way to cope when you get served.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy

This man is a genius.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy

Wisdom comes with age

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

Wisdom comes with age

Can you think of anything else to look forward to?

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

Creaking joints and tendons off the top of my head

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

tendons off the top of my head

That is a strange visual. But thanks anyway.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If you want to save your marriage, you can try a lot of things. BUT, if she has checked out already, you are wasting your time and money, and, her time and money

Agreed. I'll keep working on my improvement plan regardless, so my time and money will be well spent.

In the meantime I'll also consult with an attorney and see if there's anything I should be doing to prepare for the divorce.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll keep working on my improvement plan regardless,

Yes!

[–]weakandsensitive9 points10 points  (13 children) | Copy

Quoting /u/wigglycharlie

One week ago, wife tells him she's sick of his controlling behavior and wants a divorce.

This week: "She's going to see a divorce lawyer! She liiiiied and is deceptive! This is unacceptable!"

Yeah.

Here's the actual context.

Wife very upset about her strict allowance, says she wants a divorce. I told her to go ahead and file.

Let's hope you had your divorce lawyer lined up sooner so you knew the consequences of your statement. Not exactly sure what you were expecting, or was it just another covert contract?

And what I wrote to you in that very same post -

This is ineffective imo because that implies you have some sort of authority. If she doesn't buy into your authority, being authoritarian is going to fail.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I knew something like this would turn up in his post history

[–]PersaeusRed Beret3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The guys that post on askmrp get the same amount of ridicule from us as they do from tbp. It's cute.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

guys that post on askmrp get the same amount of ridicule from us as they do from tbp. It's cute.

There's plenty of good advice in these comments, even in the ridicule. I don't get butthurt, especially when it is deserved.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Let's hope you had your divorce lawyer lined up sooner

Nope, but I will.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

No fucking idea why you'd go and say "well then file!" without knowing what the consequences and costs are.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

No fucking idea why you'd go and say "well then file!"

Pride. Feigned indifference.

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Most likely it's going to cost you big. It's pretty easy to bullshit yourself without consequences. Harder to bullshit others. Like my 21 month old daughter likes to say "oopsie."

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

it's going to cost you big

I doubt the outcome was affected by that one comment. Any time she's pissed she threatens divorce, it's like background noise

[–]BobbyPeru-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I feel like you helped him bludgeon himself with a rusty hammer

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Here or in the OYS?

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not sure what OYS is, but bringing the context in made a huge difference

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

own your shit.

[–]fakefalse9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

Play stupid. Letting her know, that you know, undermines your best interest.

Lawyer up. Prepare yourself. This will help you psychologically either way. If she follows through with divorce, you're prepared. If she does not, You're prepared. You'll also internalize the reality that she is not yours, it is simply your turn.

Time to put your interests first.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very poetic.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank Sun Tzu, man is a genius of warfare.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is awesome.

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women don't go to divorce lawyers just to research their options. She's not in the decision-making process. She is decided.

At this point, she's just interviewing lawyers to find the one she thinks can get the most out of you the quickest, get her the best custody deal, and the best strategy to catch you unprepared.

So don't get caught unprepared. Get a lawyer, be completely open about your situation, do everything your lawyer says to get your ducks in a row. And if you can, file first and beat her to the punch. Have your attorney propose an initial settlement agreement that's mostly fair, plus a modest but tempting extra chunk of cash that would equal her attorney fees, just to end things quickly. It's up to her if she'd rather piss on your offer and spend that chunk of the savings on attorney and court costs instead of just walking away with it.

Don't talk to her about it. Just see a lawyer, get your shit together, and divorce her.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've been in a similar position as you for the last month or so-- separate rooms etc. Meet with a lawyer, see what you need to do to protect yourself. Keep a journal and log all your time with kids. It helps to be proactive.

Do you want to stay married to her? If so, work toward that. Really, at this point, you've got nothing to lose so keep working your MAP

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

keep working your MAP

I'll do that.

[–]innominating4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do you want to be married, or not?

Your early STFU and move towards a power shift may be removing the only reason she hung around: the beta provisioning. Or, she may think you are on your way out and she is preparing.

Regardless, I would seek counsel and prepare for divorce.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you want to be married, or not?

I would like our marriage to survive if possible, but not in its current state.

I'll talk to a lawyer and see what I need to do to prepare.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy

Should I go and get my own lawyer so I'm ready if/when she files?

pretty sure this was recommended to you weeks ago. fwiw, I think every married man should know his position with regard to divorce at all times.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

His MAP was weird, he was bartending last week, this week she's filing, and the month before that?

[–]PersaeusRed Beret6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

yeah, but I think the real lesson lies in his first OYS:

Intro: 51 yo, 5’11”, Married 10 yrs to hot 32 yo BPD cunt

Despite making a very good income from my job and investment properties, we live paycheck to paycheck.

I suspect she wants to fatten me back up to my former puffy-beta punk ass self

she married Daddy Warbucks; and now he has chopped up her credit cards and changed the rules. whitetrashkiller's favorite axe to grind of turning hamburger into filet mignon writ large.

I know it is MRP porn to ditch the bitch and go 20 years down. Sure enough for fucking, but for LTR/marriage . . . you might as well just put the gun in your mouth and have her hold the trigger.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not sure if you're pro, or con "Ditching the dead weight"

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

to be determined in my own case; she has been coming around hard and fast in the last few months since I started outsourcing the GF role

i am mostly neither in someone else's case due to lack of true details, only exception where I can remember actively saying "ditch the bitch" was Hambley. man was being slow boiled.

improve the man, she will either fill that vessel or not.

my larger point is that if you tie one up that is way above your SMV, she is settling for beta bux. it doesn't get any easier than gaming a 40 yo woman married to a 60 yo dude. like shooting fish in a barrel.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hambley. Not legally married, no kids, no assets and sexless for years. And still he was torn up over leaving her

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

if you tie one up that is way above your SMV, she is settling for beta bux

I should have seen the red flag from the beginning. She actually included this in our wedding vows:

"Do you, Higher SMV younger woman, take this older and lower SMV dude to be your beta bux?"

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

she married Daddy Warbucks; and now he has chopped up her credit cards and changed the rules. whitetrashkiller's favorite axe to grind of turning hamburger into filet mignon writ large. I know it is MRP porn to ditch the bitch and go 20 years down. Sure enough for fucking, but for LTR/marriage . . . you might as well just put the gun in your mouth and have her hold the trigger.

Some lessons you have to learn the hard (and expensive) way.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

yep, and don't be putting any guns in your mouth

nothing more pathetic in this world than killing yourself over a bitch

life goes on

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If we divorce, she'll depart with cash and prizes, and I'll make a game of replacing her and the assets

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

she married Daddy Warbucks; and now he has chopped up her credit cards and changed the rules

This may be still my bitterness, but bitches who want alcoholics, want alcoholics, period. They want all those big, obese, smoking, 30-something, fat dudes, who let themselves be lead by their guilt.

Those bitches don't want sober dudes, who have everything in order. They may find such men attractive, but they don't want any for a LTR just because they have pretty low self-esteem and know, they don't deserve better.

And usually they don't, because they're money-sucking harpies with personal issues, like BPD or such.

Just my theory.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

he was bartending last week

So he has, let's say, "a drinking problem" and he's bartending? Cool. Where do I sign up?

[–]WesternhagenWinner7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Emotionally checked out", zero physical attraction, sleeping separately, actively investigating divorce - it would not be unusual to find Chad in the background in this situation.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lol, best pkay for blood. She will

Assuming your bpd analysis is correct.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's a good quiz on shrinkformen.com to determine if your LTR is a bona fide BPD. I read the book "Loving someone with Borderline Personality Disorder", and it is very useful for knowing how their mind functions and how to respond. There is no effective treatment

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Just one more thing.......

I hate to be cold about it, but I think I would view this as an opportunity..... But, you do you.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

view this as an opportunity

My marriage will either "get busy living, or get busy dying". Either way, I look and feel better than I have in decades.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fix yourself and fix the marriage, or, fix yourself and end the marriage. This is your opportunity, the time for fucking around is over. But I am delusional, on my good days.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't know. I've never heard of a woman who filed for divorce who didn't already have some plans​ sorted out. I.e. branch swinging with active leads.

OP should verify here.

They may see lawyers, they may entertain the possibility, but they'll never pull the trigger unless they have plan b.

Even if he was to go and cheat.

It is quite possible she suspects You of wanting to divorce and is preparing herself.

In any case prepare yourself discreetly.

[–]JudgeDoom69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They may see lawyers, they may entertain the possibility, but they'll never pull the trigger unless they have plan b.

She did this a few years ago, but never pulled the trigger. But I'm sure she found out what her rights and options were then.

In any case prepare yourself discreetly.

I'll do exactly that.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What possible benefit do you get from "calling her out"? That's what a drunk captain would do. Start by being prepared. Do that by planning and researching.
At the end of the day, you must consult an attorney so you at least understand the game. Currently you're still looking like a drunk captain.

[–]jahesus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You dont. You beat her to the punch.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do I call her out on this

Don't.

(I hate being misled)

Fuck your feelings. They're not important in the big picture. Do you remember how did you feel 2 weeks ago? 2 days ago? 2 hours ago?

Me neither.

I remember that sometimes I went to gym twice per 24 hrs to get rid of my anger, but once the anger is gone - do I cling to it? No, I don't even remember it.

So, fuck your feels, they aren't important. But guess what, so are you. So what do you do then?

and ask her how the appointment with the lawyer went?

My god, this would be passive-aggressive 10 out of 10. See this reply to my post: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/68owcf/2_types_of_psychological_reaction_when_a_woman/dh0uy8m/

Or do I adhere to Outcome Indifference and let the chips fall where they may, and if she files, she files.

You don't control what other people do. But you can control your own reaction.

Should I go and get my own lawyer so I'm ready if/when she files?

You know what you should do.

Did you ask someone before posting here, "oh should I post that question"? No, you just did that.

Do you know, what you should do next? Let me spoil that for you. You already know.

Do it.

Godspeed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

why play games? What's the prize?



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