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Setting a boundary that I'd struggle to reinforce or justify.

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April 27, 2017
10 upvotes

I've been lurking and working on this for over a year now, but as per the title there is one undesirable behaviour from my wife that has always gotten to me and the way I treat the subject never fails to fuck up my frame.

 

We have little social life together, both work full time and have 2 kids. I don't do much besides work, home/family, reading and gym. She does the same except no gym or reading (just tv and facebook). Boring as fuck, I know hence its the biggest thing on the MAP to work on.

 

The issue is that what little social life she has outside family consists nights out with work friends who I don't know. These most often begin as dinner but wind up with her rolling home in the early hours shitfaced and puking. Now beta me has enjoyed me some drunk sex in the past, and she loves me going dom/caveman when shes had a drink., but I stopped that as I don't want to associate the behaviour with sex. Realising that these occasions are prime opportunity for her to fall on Randomchad's dick and hamstering hat it didn't / won't happen again was what got me to privately begin to own my shit.

 

On the one hand, getting in that state is unacceptable to me. I have concerns over her personal safety at those times and our kids are old enough to be vaguely aware of it so its a bad example too. I'm aware that my own insecurities feed largely into and from this.

On the other hand this isn't often, maybe once a month or less. Our sex life is decent and I have no other cause of suspicion. Whenever I show my butthurt about it she can tit-for-tat with equivalents that I can't dispute. The few times a year I go fishing its often for 2-3 days in dangerous locations with little or no cell service.

So how do I set a boundary when I haven't yet established my time & attention as valuable to her, but it's not something worth divorcing over? I can't figure out a consequence in between for breaking it, and my trust issues and concerns aside, she isn't really doing much more than I do myself.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.


Post Information
Title Setting a boundary that I'd struggle to reinforce or justify.
Author redsprinklersystem
Upvotes 10
Comments 24
Date 27 April 2017 08:13 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206232
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/67uaai/setting_a_boundary_that_id_struggle_to_reinforce/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
butthurtMAPbetaframehamster
Comments

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

/u/strategos_autokrator's post on How to build boundaries during your transition, along with many of the comments, is an awesome guide on what you can and can't do, and how to go about it.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Op this read and read and read

[–]redsprinklersystem[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the link. I read the OP and get the idea. As I replied at length above, I know I can't set the boundary without defensive actions or consequences planned. What I'm stuck on is that it doesn't warrant going nuclear and separating (unless I found that she did fuck chad - instant dismissal) but removing my time and attention doesn't mean shit to her - yet. I need something in between.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You can't enforce the boundary you want without going nuclear. Sorry.

Now, think creatively about what lesser boundaries you could enforce that might mitigate, reduce, or tend to discourage this behavior. Do you enable by cleaning up her puke or covering for her during her hangover, or help her hide her behavior from other friends or parents?

Does she do this because this is her only social outlet? Can you create other social activities, such as taking dance classes together? Quit being "boring as fuck"; sounds like going out with probably lame work "friends" and getting puke drunk is still more fun than hanging out with you. This should be a pretty low bar to exceed; what the hell have you been doing in this year you have been lurking?

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bummer, I was hoping someone hadn't spoon fed him the answers. See if he could come up with strat's "levels of defense" on his own. But you made it very clear. Hope OP gets it.

[–]CopybookHeadings0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That is, without any doubt, one of the best and most useful posts that I've read on here. Thanks for sharing the link.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Strat was a good one. Awesome transition, you should go back and read all of his submissions from the first when you have time.

[–]tim_rp3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you can't enforce the boundary, then it's not a boundary.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Whenever I show my butthurt about it she can tit-for-tat with equivalents that I can't dispute. The few times a year I go fishing its often for 2-3 days in dangerous locations with little or no cell service

Forgetting what she says about it, do you truly feel that you are committing "equivalent" offenses? Her opinion matters none here, only how you feel about it. She is entitled to her opinions, but don't let that cloud your judgement.

If you are also doing wrong, use this as an opportunity to improve yourself. Tell her that "both of you ARE going to change this behavior" and map a plan together. Then execute on this plan, whether she complies or not, improve yourself.

If you are not truly acting in a way that is inconsistent with your values, then get comfortable with the idea that she might not agree and realize that they are two discrete issues.

Discuss it with her in a matter of fact way, the key phrase is "MY wife doesn't do this...". Not, "YOU shouldn't do this." She can do whatever the fuck she wants, and you can choose a new wife. That is how it works. If she brings up you: "We are not talking about me at this moment. I welcome a discussion about my fishing, but that is not what we are discussing right now." broken record style.

Later, once her issues are resolved and there is a plan you should do as you said and welcome the discussion. This is the other side of the same coin. If she insists that HER husband doesn't fish for 3 days (or whatever, it doesn't matter), you have the choice to change to appease her or say "I disagree and I will not be changing." In this case you have to own your choice, where if it is important enough to you - let her walk.

The main point of all of this is OVERT contracts. For me there is a line with two sides, one side is acceptable, the other side is unacceptable. What goes where is completely my choice, and as long as I'm honest with myself and upfront with her about it, there is really no thinking to it. It's like the marriage is on autopilot in that way.

[–]redsprinklersystem[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it and agree with the approach.

To clarify a little, I don't think either of us is doing 'wrong' per se. We both go out of comms when doing our own thing. I could (in theory) be smashing strange when I'm away and I AM putting myself in some degree of danger. I am fully aware that the fear of her falling onto a chad is my trust issue to own (lack of abundance, just my turn etc). I think my concern over her safety at those times is valid though.

The difference in comms is that I'm in a remote region with patchy service. She's in our local city and doesn't hear or ignores her phone (fucking glued to the bastard the rest of the time though!).

I want to curb or limit the behaviour from her, just along the lines of 'answer if I call or text, don't get that level of shitfaced drunk etc' but since our home time is currently meh (working on it) she doesn't value my time or attention much, hence removing it is pointless and the only options I see prior to increasing my value are 'put up and shut up' or go nuclear (not warranted).

I'll read through the full thread linked in another comment to see if I can get ideas on an appropriate consequence.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think your judgement is clouded regarding acceptable behavior, possibly you bought into her hamstering about it when you discussed it. Going fishing with spotty cell service is in no way similar to a married woman going out and getting plastered. Chad isn't waiting just around the next marsh to jump out and rape you, but you had better believe there are very real dangers she is exposing herself to, in addition to the obvious lack of inhibition (i.e. excuse) she has and the disrespect she brings upon your family name by acting this way.

[–]mrpthrowa3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

These most often begin as dinner but wind up with her rolling home in the early hours shitfaced and puking

What the fuck?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have a new take on this; tell me if I'm reading it right.

You're a pathologically shy, or maybe aspie, guy who has no friends or social activities and is afraid to start any. You've always felt threatened by your wife's social activities so as a beta husband you passive-aggressively discourage her social activities and try to mate-guard electronically. She eventually dropped most of her social outlets but has balked at giving up this last one. Last year you became sufficiently alarmed that she might cheat on your lame, sorry ass that you discovered MRP, which alarmed you even more. You skimmed the readings and recommendations, picked the easy for you (that is, solitary and non-interactive ones like lifting, buying nicer clothes, and STFU) ones, ignored the harder ones for you (friends, life outside the home, gaming your wife), and sprinkled a little alpha hoping that would "fix it" and enable you to shut down your wife's only remaining social outlet.

But it didn't, so you're back here asking for some kind of easy trick you can use to control her without having to work on the stuff that's hard for you. Am I right?

If so, I feel sorry for your wife.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Might be some of that. But she's not acting like a wife.

It's one thing to go out with the girlfraaaands for a few drinks now and then. It's quite another to go out with coworkers (male AND female) and stay out till 3 am coming home shitfaced and puking. The first is probably OK. The second is "Imma cheat on you the first chance I get if I haven't already".

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, but I am reminded of /u/jacktenofhearts first wife's reply when caught, to which jackten himself expressed some sympathy:

can you blame me, you worthless piece of shit?

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Spot on.

[–]redsprinklersystem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. You're just about on the money. I reflected a lot on this since yesterday to see whether the parts I initially disagreed with are actually true.

You're dead on, but for one exception. I honestly don't feel threatened by any other social activities but this and I haven't tried to shut anything down besides this - actually I don't want to shut this down, just to limit the excessive binge drinking. On reflection I think we both bought into the disney dream (together very young) and each forsook outside social activity to pursue our shared goals (home / family). Since those are largely accomplished I've been floundering and she buries herself in her job. I need to find and lead on some shared social activities.

Thanks for the perspective.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

The issue is that what little social life she has outside family consists nights out with work friends who I don't know. These most often begin as dinner but wind up with her rolling home in the early hours shitfaced and puking.

She does this alone, without you? Married women with children do not act like this. Married women with children do not stay out until the wee hours of the morning in restaurants and bars, getting shitfaced drunk, and then coming home staggering and puking.

Wifey needs to grow the fuck up.

This isn't acceptable behavior in a married woman with children. Might have been do-able when she was a young single woman with no kids. But she's a goddamn grownup now, a wife with a husband and kids and a job, and she needs to stop acting like this.

Yeah, it IS something worth divorcing over. A woman going out to the wee hours of the morning getting drunk with coworkers is just ASKING for an affair, or a fuck from a rando when her inhibitions are down. I'd be surprised if that hasn't happened already.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like a preferable alternative to whatever OP likes to do. Is he boring or is she a low-value person? Maybe both?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

::Shrugs:: I focused on her. She acts this way because OP puts up with it. If he stopped putting up with it, she will either stop, or they'll get divorced.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]anotherswingingdick0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd be surprised if that hasn't happened already.

OP, are you listening?

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So you have zero social life and do nothing but work and stay at home. Fix that and this problem will go away.

[–]redsprinklersystem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very accurate and succinct. Just stressing over the risk that arises while I work on it.



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