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Progressing and need advice: Why is my wife stoic?

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March 24, 2017
7 upvotes

Gentlemen, it's been about 9-10 months since I've found MRP and I've been reading, lifting, and doing what I can to invest in myself first and foremost. I've taken inventory of the beta habits and behaviors that I've developed over the past 10 years of marriage and have been trying to overcome them to improve my relationship with my wife. It seems that she's not responding in a way that is consistent with the results on /r/marriedredpill, etc, and so I come here to see if I can get some advice or guidance.

Facts:

  • Me 34, Her 34 stay-at-home-mom
  • 2 Girls 5yo and 3yo.
  • Lifting- Stronglifts twice a week (was more but schedule's busy with other stuff)
  • Reading- Read and re-read WISNIFG, MMSLP, NMMNG. Working through Bang and Pook now. Regularly read blogs (Family Alpha, etc)
  • Improved wardrobe, losing weight, good pay at work, working on side business, generally happy with progress I've made in almost every other area of my life.
  • Been more stoic around wife, not as available to her, not an emotional tampon for her. Going out frequently to do my stuff, helpful and proactive around the house, getting my shit done. Complete indifference towards her, IDGAF, etc.
  • Working on game...this one is difficult for me

Observations:

  • In the past months that I've been 'unplugging' and changed my interactions with her, she's been just as stoic/uninterested in me as I am in her. She simply doesn't notice or care about what I do or that I'm not as available to her. She just sits on the couch all night and watches TV and goes to bed very late at night after I'm already asleep. Furthermore she seems to be perfectly content doing this.
  • We have sex once a month if I'm lucky. I initiate several times a week and get a hard no each time. I've tried changing my approach, flirting with her throughout the day when we're out, etc, all to no avail. My game's weak, but I've been trying to be clever with varying my approaches. I'm cool and casual when I get rejected, and don't whine or make a big deal about it.
  • Tonight after suggesting a romantic evening together, she basically informed me that she has no interest in me sexually whatsoever, and that she doesn't enjoy herself when we do have sex (even though she orgasms every time).

Is my wife gay? Am I a total moron? I've been seeing success and progress in every other aspect of my life, but I'm just not sure what's going on here. Help and guidance is appreciated.

(edited for formatting)


Post Information
Title Progressing and need advice: Why is my wife stoic?
Author fakus
Upvotes 7
Comments 42
Date 24 March 2017 02:51 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206364
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/616kbg/progressing_and_need_advice_why_is_my_wife_stoic/
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Comments

[–]tim_rp7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

She simply doesn't notice or care about what I do or that I'm not as available to her. She just sits on the couch all night and watches TV and goes to bed very late at night after I'm already asleep. Furthermore she seems to be perfectly content doing this.

So here's the question - why are you being less available? Is it because you've got better shit to do or is it because you're angling to change her behaviour. I struggle with this question myself. Often.

If she's content being a low value woman it's because you don't provide any incentive for her to not be. She's comfortable living a lazy life. Where are you on the 12 levels of dread?

I initiate several times a week and get a hard no each time. I've tried changing my approach...all to no avail. My game's weak, but I've been trying to be clever with varying my approaches.

Seems like you're doing the right stuff but for the wrong reasons. Do you want sex? Express that fact. Get rejected? Move on. It's not easy, but it's your only play. Don't try to be clever. You're not clever. I'm not clever. If we were clever we wouldn't be here. Be explicit instead.

Tonight after suggesting a romantic evening together, she basically informed me that she has no interest in me sexually whatsoever, and that she doesn't enjoy herself when we do have sex

They're words. Ignore her words. Look at her actions. Once I get her pants off my wife is more or less into sex but until that point it's reluctance all the way, even if she says 'let's do this'. Lesson, in my case, is that I'm not attractive enough for her to put out without having to psych herself into the right mood. You're probably the same.

[–]fakus[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Just getting a chance to reply now. Thanks for the info.

I've been steadily trying to build up a life apart from sitting with my wife on the couch in front of the TV all night, and it feels great. I think what I need to remember the most is that they're just words and I don't have to pay much attention to them.

[–]KrazyKestral6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're completely withdrawing emotionally from your relationship with your wife and you're surprised that she doesn't want to have sex with you? If you attempt any level of dread that involves creating jealousy in her (by, say, going out to lunch with another woman) you're going to cement the failing relationship that you have. She's going to bed after you go to bed because she doesn't want to go to bed with you. You need to invest in her emotionally again, take her on a date, ask her about her day, etc. You don't need to be emotionally used (like a tampon) to show her that you care about her. A healthy relationship requires emotional investment.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you attempt any level of dread that involves creating jealousy in her (by, say, going out to lunch with another woman) you're going to cement the failing relationship that you have. She's going to bed after you go to bed because she doesn't want to go to bed with you.

This is a balance that most guys are able to find pretty readily. This guy doesn't seem to be finding it. I agree he appears to be withdrawing emotionally when he needs to be leading her off the couch and introducing her to his exciting and fun filled life.

[–]Coniferous_880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I got the impression that she is indifferent about him removing his affection...since she doesn't seem to care one way or the other, what good is his effort to show her affection and attention if the result is no different from removing it? I agree that he should be leading, but at what point should he be considering higher levels of dread to perhaps effect some change or get a response?

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

You're lifting 2x a week after 9-10 months? Dude wtf? That should be your biggest priority above all else. When I miss a day I'm hungry to get back. Be hungry. Can't get to the gym because "reasons", what's stopping you from banging out a quick bodyweight HIIT workout at home? We live in a time where there are videos and walkthroughs for everything. Use that shit to your advantage.

Next should be diet. If you can't get the easiest two things sorted out, it's no wonder your game is going no where. As has already been stated, how much have you improved? What are your starting and current numbers?

The best rule of thumb I've seen on here is, "if a perfect HB10 was sitting across from you would you feel comfortable being shirtless?" Use that as you're motivation for sorting out your workout routine. I know I'm not there yet, I bet you're not either.

On game, do other women find you attractive? Are they more receptive to game than your wife? Yes? Then the problem is your wife. Re-evaluate what value she brings. No? Then the problem is you. Be attractive, don't be unattractive. Don't know? Then you're missing the entire point of abundance mentality. You need to work your game on other women to foster an abundance mentality and OI.

I think you'll find POOK helpful in this regard. Go out, have fun and improve. Most importantly do it for you, not as some way of "getting her to .....". It's a tough concept to grasp but it makes all the difference. You wont make any progress until you make it all about you.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you'll find POOK helpful

The dude can DEFINITELY use a draught from the fountain of youth!

[–]fakus[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I will try to get to the gym more. On days when I can't go to the gym, I do several sets of pushups and crunches, but it's nowhere near a full work out.

I've had another girl at work show interest, but I think I need to make more opportunities for myself to be in social situations where I can talk to women and work on my game.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Either do or do not, there is no try. I heard that somewhere in a movie or something. Little green dude said it.

Or maybe you should "try your best". There's a Sean Connery quote for that one from The Rock that would be appropriate for you.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The one about winners and losers and who goes home and fucks the prom queen. Great quote

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

We need numbers on lifts and weight loss. Losing 10 pounds is a good start but meaningless in attraction terms if you're still 250.

I agree with u/ParadoxThatDrivesUs. You probably aren't attractive - physically or with game. You admit the latter. So read my post, which is geared to this type of thing. In any case, she's clearly not attracted to you, because

She simply doesn't notice or care about what I do or that I'm not as available to her.

If she valued you highly, she'd give a shit. You need to figure out for yourself whether you are objectively attractive. You admit you aren't being sexy. Get on the scale, get a tailor's tape measure, figure out your weight and body fat %, take your clothes off and look in the mirror And be honest with yourself about whether you look sexy. I'm guessing probably not, so get there.

[–]fakus[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You're probably right. I went from 190 to 170. I can squat about 180 lbs and bench 105. Those aren't great numbers, but it's a lot more than when I started.

I'll check out the post you wrote, thanks for the info

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

it's been about 9-10 months since I've found MRP

I can...bench 105

So you're weak. Which means you're either scrawny at 170 or skinny-fat. Not attractive. There's a reason we say Lift, Lift, Lift...

[–]chief_slap_ahoe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You need to do deadlifting, it will release the most testosterone in your body and it will work the most muscles in your body therefore increasing your other lifts. Your lifts are really low for your weight.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your game sucks, you aren't lifting right, and you are "losing" weight - ie, still overweight, I gather. These could be clues.

[–]atlhartRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Whenever I see "losing weight", it sounds like they want a prize. "I'm down to 25% BF from 28%, why isn't she fucking me yet?"

Losing weight isn't a goal. It's a path.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

haha. Yup.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your wife sounds fucking amazing.

I know shit about you

[–]atlhartRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You need to work the levels of dread, at least one month for every year of marriage. They are a really solid plan, because they simultaneously work to two contradictory outcomes.

1) Your marriage, life, and sex life improve

or

2)Via the levels of dread you confirm that your marriage is not worth staying in. At the top level, you are both emotionally, financially, and physically prepared to exit your marriage and begin fresh knowing what you want, how to get it, and having the skills to do so.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So long as she cares more, your 'sprinkling of alpha' will never work. Also, you're probably shit at providing eye candy or tingles

[–]fakus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well put. Point taken. Looks like more reading and finding situations where I can practice what I've been learning.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Tonight after suggesting a romantic evening together, she basically informed me that she has no interest in me sexually whatsoever, and that she doesn't enjoy herself when we do have sex (even though she orgasms every time).

Well she is being honest at least. What are you gonna do with hat info?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Who is leading the children? Who is the alpha, and who is relaxing?

My guess is your wife is doing all the things for the kids and views you as mr. beta bux. Dressing nice and improving slightly won't fix that.

Hey, let me be frank. I kicked ass, got myself to a reasonably impressive build for my age, fixed my diet, dress better, better haircut, better hygiene, got rid of the acne, and got social things to go do. Along the way my testosterone went up, I stopped asking permission for things, and started taking care of business.

My wife is clinging to the steering wheel as if her life depended on it, ESPECIALLY with the kids, exhausting her completely.

In that situation, there will be no interest, only competition.

Tell us about how you spend time with the kids and how you lead the family.

My guess is that you could use a vacation that you (THE MAN) plan and run end-to-end. Let her sit back and be feminine. See how that goes.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I remember your first posts. You started in a really deep hole

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

thanks man. The man is being saved. I am in my own frame. Other things are pretty terrible, but I am dealing with it 10000% percent better.

It's amazing what doing the work can do for you.

[–]anythingincRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Your journey of self-improvement, self-actualization, and introspection is impressive as fuck man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, it doesn't feel that way at home sometimes, but I can't control anyone else, all I have is me, and I know I am stronger/healthier now that I was ~10 months ago.

Woulda been better If I could have skipped that rambo crap at the beginning. :-)

[–]Redpillbrigade171 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit. You sorry loser. You're a classic nice guy. You have no idea what it means for a woman to be thrilled to be with you and to suck your cock because she loves it and she loves how it makes you feel. To love it when you cum in her mouth or to want to be totally dominated by you. You're married to harpy bitchy for some sense of duty and you approach this whole MRP with same sense of obligation and integrity you've lived your whole life. And yet results suck. You're a doormat and she walks all over you.

Here's your playbook (in addition to what you do already):

  1. Get her ass to work
  2. Set a timeframe for getting your life to where your want it including relationships including your wife , say 9 months.
  3. See a lawyer and prepare for D day. Whether it comes or not. Thou shall not be taken by surprise.
  4. Spend a lot of time with the kids. Plan it.

You're going to get taken to the cleaners in divorce court and she's going to get most custody time if /when you end up there.

Good luck.

[–]thickashell1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol no she doesn't orgasm

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Regardless of your wife's responses you keep improving. If you get to the point where you've inproved, lead, and set boundaries, and she's not being the woman you want in your life, you find one that will.

Question is...can you honestly say that you have/are doing everything you can?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

she doesn't enjoy herself when we do have sex (even though she orgasms every time)

What about the sex doesn't she enjoy?

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Get attractive and lift for another year. Initiate when you want sex, walk away cool with other things to do when she says no. If in a year, after you have improved, if she still says she doesn't have any interest in sex you pull the cord. I would if my wife told me that now but I've been here for 1.5 years. Life is too short not to be with a woman or women who are sexually and emotionally invested in you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of guys are pointing to the lifting and attractiveness issues. I agree with that-- you need to be good looking and develop some game. Withdrawing your time and attention won't mean anything until she values your presence.

My wife has the worst PMS. Every month it's like WW3. So I have absolutely no interest in being around her for about a week and a half. I climb, ski, hang out with friends and make myself scarce. Because she isn't worth my time when she's unpleasant. So that makes her feel awful, she rages at me, feels unloved etc. But then she becomes a sane person after a few days. I introduce my positive frame back into her life and we have monkey sex for a few weeks. Life is good.

Do you think your wife is withdrawing from you because she doesn't value your presence? Do you attempt to create a non-needy emotional connection with her? Do you pick her up and laugh while you cook dinner?

My guess is that she isn't a cunt at baseline. Make sure you're not stuck in a negative reinforcement loop

[–]BrazilRedPill0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Take this with caution. It was true in my case, however:

Women's Infidelity - a book written by a married woman

The author interviewed 200 women and 100 men. This is how it goes with all of them:

Unspoken words, the woman feels and don't share: the woman is married and out of nowhere feels unhappy. Things proceed to dead bedroom. Woman feels that she isn't doing her obligation and is afraid that her husband leaves her. She then proceeded to blame the husband for not being able to give her the tingles.

She meets Chad, and have an emotional connection. She feels bad. Then she feels that something so nice can't be a bad thing. She doesn't know what to do, she can't decide between Chad and her husband. The husband suspects nothing, because he thinks that she doesn't want sex with him, she doesn't want with anyone.

Husband, not aware of what goes on, tries to help at home, be more available etc. Nothing helps.

Woman starts to question if she is a good girl. She blames the husband even more for how she feels. She wants her husband to die, it would make things easier for her. She starts to act like a bitch, to make the husband file the divorce.

Wife doesn't care about the kids or her vows; husbands take these things on the equation, not her.

Eventually they divorce. The woman engage a new relationship, and in a few years starts to feel that shit all over again. She then realizes that she shouldn't have caused all of this trouble to her ex and kids.

Only 2 guys could overcome this example of hypergamy and solipsism: when the woman said she was unhappy, the man told her to cut the bullshit, state in clear words exactly what she wants; he won't try to read her mind and she shouldn't try either. That or she can leave right now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The author interviewed 200 women and 100 men.

[...]

Only 2 guys could overcome this example of hypergamy and solipsism: when the woman said she was unhappy, the man told her to cut the bullshit, state in clear words exactly what she wants; he won't try to read her mind and she shouldn't try either. That or she can leave right now.

So if I understand correctly she interviewed 200 women who cheated and 100 of the partners they cheated on?

What does "overcome" mean here? The relationship survived in only those two cases? Or the cheating was avoided (a little confused how that fits the 200 who were interviewed).

[–]BrazilRedPill1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok, fair enough. Each one of the persons interviewed identified themselves on a scale of 1-4 of infidelity that the interviewer set up.

Those 2 men managed to return to a marriage without problems.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks. That was an interesting post you linked. I had not heard of these books or seen that post.

Have you read the books? Do they identify the core unease/unhappiness involved or is it just taken as a given? The only hint I get from the TRP post is it's chalked up to loss of NRE?

[–]BrazilRedPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't read the book, I've read this review.

The author says that she was struggling with these thoughts and everybody said it was her husband's fault. She then talked to some girls and identified a pattern. The book is in some way her own history.

The core unhappiness is caused by women hypergamy, solipsism and feminism.

[–]NevrEndr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How demanding are your children? Do they go to school during the day?

I have two girls around the same age but my wife works full time. She still is the primary in the evenings because she gets home before me. Those girls suck all of the energy out of her in 2 hours easy. They are demanding. They are needy. They are whiny when they are hungry or tired. When I get home late I can see the frustration and fatigue in my wife's face so I jump in and help but they still want mommy most of the time. It's seriously hard fucking work taking care of a 5 and 3 year old. Could it be that your wife is exhausted from your children pulling at her all day long?

The hard no's I get are after a particular difficult night with the kids or the week after ovulation where her testosterone drops and she just wants to sleep which leads to another question Are you tracking her cycle? Its incredibly useful .

Week after period - regular sex

Two weeks after period - ovulation - insane kinky tie me up bend me over and fuck me all night every night sex

Three weeks after period - don't touch me

2-3 days before period - see ovulation

This goes hand in hand with her hormone levels.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cut the bullshit. You are not doing the work or applying yourself. Your biggest problem is your lack of honesty

It really boils down to how much you want sex or jack off to porn. This is all on you and once you post weightlifting numbers that I posted @ 11 years of age you are not driven, own your shit, or captain at all.

When you come home, the house is clean and she is excited to see you, you are doing all the work and doing it right. Until then you are unattractive fucking bore. Got it ? It all starts with you and exciting plans

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can't dread when divorce would ruin you. Yer fucked.



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