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Please, Tell Me I'm Being Crazy. Please.

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March 10, 2017
10 upvotes

UPDATE: I'm calling around to day cares and will get that set up ASAP. I've called a mobile mental health crisis line and will get them to the house tonight. I've contacted my wife's old therapist and am waiting on a call back to hopefully kickstart their relationship again. And, I've found a divorce lawyer a friend recommended and have left a message to schedule a 30 minute consult to get my bearings.

Thanks everyone for the comments, whatever they are. I have no one to speak to about these things day to day.


First off: I swear, I am not trying to make askmrp my personal diary. I did not plan to post here again for a long while, but things are starting to escalate and I desperately need for someone to tell me if I am being overblown/an idiot/a shity husband/crazy.

After MRP collectively told me to get over it, I've been working on acknowledging but not wallowing in my pain and anger. After a few days, things got back to normal, more or less - a bit more distance on my part, but back to working on my self and the marriage.

A day or two later, a text: "When you get home I need to leave the house." Stress text, common occurrence. I didn't engage.

I came home after work to find my wife in a fetal ball, face down on the ground while the kids played around her. She said she hadn't eaten all day, besides the omelet I made her for breakfast, and her blood sugar was low.

I gave her some snacks to eat, brought her some water, and she curled up under a blanket on the couch, using her phone.

Ordered dinner for us, got the kids fed, cleaned, changed, put down.

We ate, and I said we should talk. The specifics are boring, but we got into it.

  • Normally, I would have been wrapped up in her emotions, feeling anxious. I didn't. I felt strong, in control - she needed help, and I could be there.

  • She said: "I cannot take care of the kids myself. I'm a failure as a mother. I can't get them to eat, I can't get them to sleep. I just can't do it."

  • I was empathetic, but firm. "We need to put a plan in place to deal with this. The kids will be fine. I am mostly worried about you. You are the one being affected most."

  • Here is the plan I put together, essentially a mini-MAP:

--- First, she should wake up 30 minutes early, come down, and eat her breakfast. That way she'll start the day right, rather than staying in bed until the second I leave, then being "unable" to eat, which is what she always does. (To be clear, the kids wake up around 5:30; I get them up, and she typically comes down moments before I leave at 8. This way, she'd come down at 7:30).

--- If that doesn't help, we will put together a plan to get her some time to exercise. I would come right home from BJJ on Tu/Th to handle the kids and she would go straight to group class. Or, we could do weekend mornings, where I would take the kids.

--- If that doesn't help, she would go back to her therapist.

--- If that doesn't help, and the doctor agrees, she would go on anti-depressants.

--- If that doesn't help, we will get her a part time job and the kids will go to daycare part of the week.

That was the plan. She mostly didn't say anything once I put that on the table. Later I put my arm around her and she leaned into me, and I held her for a while. Things felt better.

Fast forward to this morning. This is the second morning of her getting up "early" to eat.

I had a ton of energy this morning. Got the kids up, made breakfast, did the leftover dishes from last night, did all the dishes I made during breakfast, put dry dishes away, got the snowblower and shovels out of the shed, made myself a protein shake for lunch, played with the kids, got dressed for work.

She came down grumpy and moping around. She took her breakfast upstairs to eat in her room. (I had encouraged her to spend the time downstairs with us, but at least she ate). When I went outside to get the snowblower, I told her so she could come down and keep an eye on the kids; she didn't.

After I went upstairs to brush my teeth, she came down. About 5 minutes later I heard her yelling and snapping at our oldest because she couldn't find some toy she wanted to put away. She said things like "Why do you always do this to me?" and had a very angry tone of voice. The kids were just playing in their play room. They had made a mess, like they always do, and she started angrily putting all their toys away. "You guys make such a MESS, it drives me CRAZY."

I stepped in and calmly told the kids to help mom find the toy. I kept it very light. She immediately started to sulk. Our oldest asked "Where are you going, daddy?" and she immediately jumped in with a sullen "Yeah, guess you guys are stuck with me today." The oldest immediately started repeating it, including her sour tone of voice.

She went back upstairs. I said goodbye to the kids and went upstairs to say goodbye to her. Found her slumped with her head down on her dresser. I said "hey," and softly pulled her in for a hug. She resisted, not wanting to turn towards me, so I just put my arms around her.

She said "THIS is why I hate coming down in the mornings. I DREAD it."

I will admit - I was frustrated. She had done NOTHING the entire morning. Now she dreads being around our kids? She was already fighting against a plan we put in place for her?

I just said, "Well, OK. We've talked about this before. I know it's hard for you, so tonight, after I get home, we can talk about changing that situation. You certainly don't have to be here if you don't want to." And I started to leave for work.

As I went down the stairs I heard her start to punch and hit things. I heard a loud tumbling sounds, like something was being thrown to the ground.

I will admit it - I snapped. I walked back up the stairs. I raised my voice to her - something I have done maybe 3 times since we've been together. I very, very rarely let her see me get angry.

"ARE MY KIDS SAFE IN THIS HOUSE RIGHT NOW?"

This is how I felt. She's throwing things around, talking down to them, moping around - who knows what happens when I'm gone?

She immediately tried to turn it around on me. "How DARE you fucking speak to me that way?!"

"You are acting like a child - and I NEED to know if my kids are safe with you." (I am not proud of this statement, but it's there.)

"FUCK YOU, HOW DARE YOU...." etc.

I turned. "I am taking the kids out of this house." She ran downstairs in front of me and put herself between me and the play room. "You are NOT taking these kids, HOW COULD YOU say that"

Me: "I will take these kids from here if I think they are unsafe. You are acting irrationally - swearing when the kids can hear you, hitting things. I will remove them if I need to." My tone at this point was still angry but low - I stopped shouting the moment we transitioned downstairs.

"You will NOT..." and she retreated to the room with the kids. If I wanted to remove them, I would have to do it with her interfering. I waited a moment, and decided against it. I checked the situation, told the kids I loved them, and left.

A few things:

  • she was not "out of control." The moment she realized I would take the kids she lowered her voice and put herself in a defensive position (i.e., between me and them.)

  • I am not wrapped up in how she feels. I feel no anxiety. I don't really care about saving our marriage or my sex life or whatever. Right now, I feel my kids are being raised by someone who doesn't want to be around them half the time. I am worried about what that is doing to them, and stressed I'm not there more often.

  • I cannot and will not continue to give up parts of my life, to bend over backwards, to help her in a million ways. Her life is hard, for sure. But she needs to adapt to it and change it. Period.

  • I got the number of a lawyer and will call today to arrange a consult.

I don't know where the woman I married went. This isn't her.

I really just need some feedback. Am I being nuts? Do I have unrealistic expectations? Is this ALL because I'm a shitty husband? Because I sure as fuck don't feel like a shitty husband, and I need to know if that's my ego fucking me up, or if I need to be worried about my family.


Post Information
Title Please, Tell Me I'm Being Crazy. Please.
Author resolutions316
Upvotes 10
Comments 81
Date 10 March 2017 04:03 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206430
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5ymuxf/please_tell_me_im_being_crazy_please/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
MAPdread game
Comments

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy

tell me if I am being overblown/an idiot/a shity husband/crazy.

Have a goal, meet that goal. then you don't need consensus, because you can tell yourself you're closer to your goal. This is usually a placeholder for feeling bad when someone loses their shit at you, and feel guilty.

After MRP collectively told me to get over it, I've been working on acknowledging but not wallowing in my pain and anger. After a few days, things got back to normal, more or less - a bit more distance on my part, but back to working on my self and the marriage.

Who cares what internet randos say, you write as if we are playing you like a video game. Own your fucking life, jesus.

A day or two later, a text: "When you get home I need to leave the house." Stress text, common occurrence. I didn't engage.

Good, if it's important, it's face to face important

I came home after work to find my wife in a fetal ball, face down on the ground while the kids played around her. She said she hadn't eaten all day, besides the omelet I made her for breakfast, and her blood sugar was low.

They often say the reason so many male suicides are successful is that for women, it's validation seeking behaviour.

I gave her some snacks to eat, brought her some water, and she curled up under a blanket on the couch, using her phone. Ordered dinner for us, got the kids fed, cleaned, changed, put down. We ate, and I said we should talk. The specifics are boring, but we got into it.

No, they most certainly aren't boring. You have 100% encouraged this shitty behaviour.

Normally, I would have been wrapped up in her emotions, feeling anxious. I didn't. I felt strong, in control - she needed help, and I could be there. She said: "I cannot take care of the kids myself. I'm a failure as a mother. I can't get them to eat, I can't get them to sleep. I just can't do it." I was empathetic, but firm. "We need to put a plan in place to deal with this. The kids will be fine. I am mostly worried about you. You are the one being affected most."

I'm sure you believe that. She had her first helping, and came back for seconds. Keep spooning it in there bub.

... That was the plan. She mostly didn't say anything once I put that on the table. Later I put my arm around her and she leaned into me, and I held her for a while. Things felt better.

Why would she? she got a lot of goodfeels for being a BPD, validation seeking child.

I did everything She did nothing.

And as expected, she blew right through your bluff.

As I went down the stairs I heard her start to punch and hit things. I heard a loud tumbling sounds, like something was being thrown to the ground.

When in doubt, stick with what works lady.

I snapped. "ARE MY KIDS SAFE IN THIS HOUSE RIGHT NOW?"

You almost took charge, It would be better if this was controlled anger, or you had the followthrough that was congruent with your concerns. I doubt both.

She immediately tried to turn it around on me. "How DARE you fucking speak to me that way?!"

As does she.

I turned. *"I am taking the kids out of this house." "I will take these kids from here if I think they are unsafe.

Acta non verba. Good fighters don't telegraph punches

"You will NOT..." and she retreated to the room with the kids. If I wanted to remove them, I would have to do it with her interfering. I waited a moment, and decided against it. I checked the situation, told the kids I loved them, and left.

she was not "out of control." The moment she realized I would take the kids she lowered her voice and put herself in a defensive position (i.e., between me and them.) I am not wrapped up in how she feels. I feel no anxiety. I don't really care about saving our marriage or my sex life or whatever. Right now, I feel my kids are being raised by someone who doesn't want to be around them half the time. I am worried about what that is doing to them, and stressed I'm not there more often.

I don't see the code anymore, just blond, brunette, redhead. Too bad you immediately decide to convince yourself of a bunch of bullshit you didn't do. You most certainly did get wrapped up in her feelings, you clearly felt anxiety over your kids, you seriously do care about your marriage, and you let your feelings get in the way of protecting your children.

I'd call you a faggot who is wrapped around her little finger, but you'd probably apologize, and ask for seconds.

I cannot and will not continue to give up parts of my life, to bend over backwards, to help her in a million ways. Her life is hard, for sure. But she needs to adapt to it and change it. Period.

Take a while guess how credible this is.

I got the number of a lawyer and will call today to arrange a consult.

Sure you will, after work though, maybe at the lunch hour, of course, you have to run some errands first, once you calm down, I'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize not needing this. Maybe sprinkling more alpha?

I don't know where the woman I married went. This isn't her.

Sure it is, old you either never put up with it, or she never bothered to test you.

I really just need some feedback.

Do you ever.

I couldn't give two fucking shits about acta non verba and increasing attraction in my wife.

This is the first truthful thing in your post


Your problem, in a nutshell, is you're a pussy. A big, fat, throbbing, ineffective pussy. You're afraid of a woman, and given her nothing but encouragement to act a damned food. Not only do you put up with it, you reward, and further encourage it. You talk, talk, and talk some more. You haven't internalized the

  • most responsable teenager
  • reward good behaviour, don't reward bad
  • ownership of your tribe
  • Acta non Verba
  • your only weapons (affection, attention, commitment)
  • Validation seeking Behaviour
  • Co Dependancy
  • Did I already say Ownership?

Lets go through this story, with a red pill lens. You come home to an idiot pretending two toddlers is PTSD. you say nothing, you pick up the kids, and you leave. Call the parents, ask if they can help you babysit for a few days, better yet, stay with them, at least over night, while you work on a plan.

She's clearly an unfit parent, and you want your kids safe. You owned that, and did something about it. Also notice you didn't talk like her emotional tampon. you didn't lay threats you had no intention of leveling, or make her feel better. You sure as shit don't give her breakfast in bed. At best, call her parents, tell them to take her for a few days.

You come home when you have had time to cool off, and sort out the kids logistics. You look her in the eye, and you tell her to 'cut the shit'. throw some clothes in a bag, throw her in a cab, just before you close the door "Don't come back until you're ready to be an adult"

Then you pick your kids back up, and act like a single dad. Because for all practical purposes, you are. Phone on silent, don't answer texts, calls, or voicemails. If the parents call in her stead, thank them for helping, she needs alone time to sort her shit out, you have a family to run. In a few days, you can come over, gauge if she's able to handle. But to be honest, I'd probably start with her coming over when you were home. Since you need a babysitter, train her to do basic shit, and if she starts any shit, like she usually does (and guarantee she'll come out with it, calling your bluff) put her back in a cab, and instead of a few days apart, give her a week.

From a legal perspective, I would have done some research, shelled out some cash to get any sort of legal documentation, showing that I removed her from the house for the safety of the children. Recording temper tantrums, logging her inability to safely parent etc. Anything documented, so when she escalates to some kind of 'abuse' angle, you have court proof that you're acting in the childs best interests... Courts love that feelgood dad shit.

I mistook your previous post as a well meaning, but overwhelmed child. I now admit my mistake, this is Lucifers daughter, and she is not on your team.

[–]RecoveringBPAddict2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I second all of this. You need to listen to everything he is telling you.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Come on, you took an Adarol for that didn't you?

you write as if we are playing you like a video game.

OK, I admit. This is an image I have had.

I'd call you a faggot who is wrapped around her little finger, but you'd probably apologize, and ask for seconds.

Love it.

this is Lucifers daughter

That is a very serious and specific charge to make over the internet sailor. If she were a Lucifer's Daughter this guy would already be dead. She sounds weak and not even very manipulative but I haven't read the history. He sounds weak. She is flailing around. SHE NEEDS LEADERSHIP.

Your problem, in a nutshell, is you're a pussy. A big, fat, throbbing, ineffective pussy. You're afraid of a woman, and given her nothing but encouragement to act a damned food.

Ahh, right. Never mind.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

TL;DR:

OP ups his frame game and holds against wife's usual 'helpless and hopeless' play.

Wife ups her 'helpless and hopeless' frame game with a half-day fast and a dramatic 'fetal ball' performance and totally crushes OP's new frame, thus winning a glorious victory in the rematch.

OP tests his frame again against wife's 'grumpy and snappy' play. OP tries a comfort defense against a shit test play, gets rebuffed, and shifts to a foolish fix-it defense. Blindsided by her classic throwing-things counterattack, OP throws out a desperate boundary that he can't enforce; wife sprints across the boundary line, winning another easy victory.

OP is still so shellshocked that his frame is completely lost and he's gaslighting himself.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

SEveral things here.

1) You're getting excellent advice here from everyone else, esp. abdada. You don't have a handle on your own shit. You don't. You're hurting, you're scared, you're anxious, and you just want to fix it ('it' being pretty much everything). You can't.

Here's a crash course on owning your shit:

--figure out what you want and what your alternatives are. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

--figure out a plan to get you what you want.

--make sure the finances, your job, your health, are all on point. get the damn basics down.

--why are you acting the way you are around your wife? What fears, anxieties and problems do you have? Go deep. Get really deep. Kill your ego.

2) Your wife is showing clear signs of some sort of mental or emotional disorder requiring professional intervention. I don't know what that is; I'm not a mental health professional. She needs help now. Tell her to get that help. Help her get it.

3) You need to take the reins now. When you say you're going to do something, you do it. Don't announce you're taking the kids out of the house. Just take them. If wife says "when you get home I need to leave the house", tell her to go immediately on your return to the house.

DO NOT ask "are my kids safe in this house right now". Observe the situation, make a judgment whether they are or aren't, and then act. You were asking her permission to decide whether the kids are safe. That is YOUR call, not hers. She was completely in her emotions and you followed right along with it.

You DO NOT negotiate, bargain, reason with, or work with someone who's in the throes of an emotional meltdown. You just act to protect and isolate. It's like a person having a grand mal seizure. You can't stop it. You just move shit away from them and do what you can to keep them from hurting themselves or others until it's over.

You need to be her oak that she can grab hold of while she's having these emotional problems. She is crying out for you to take control, and YOU'RE NOT DOING IT. DO NOT ASK HER whether you need to act. JUST ACT.

4) When your wife is throwing a fit, punching and hitting things, walk away. Don't intervene. Your actions were an attempt to get her to stop. Don't, unless she's threatening one of the kids or you.

5) don't give me this bullshit about how you're not "wrapped up in how she feels". Bullshit. Yes you are. Her feelings are dictating EVERYTHING that goes on in that house. She's using her feelings to manipulate you and everyone else. Know why? Because she's discovered that it WORKS. She's found out that throwing fits and getting hyperemotional gets other people around her to do what she wants them to do. STOP allowing her fits and meltdowns to manipulate everyone.

The way you fix this is you STOP responding to her feelings unless there's an imminent threat to someone's life or health. She is moping and bitching? Ignore. She's complaining? Ignore. She's alone in her room throwing a fit? Ignore. She starts yelling at you? Walk away and disengage.

Don't talk. You don't need to "talk" about things. You IGNORE negative conduct caused by her emotions.

Determine what needs to be done, and then DO IT. You decide it, not her. YOU do it, not her. Don't ask permission to lead. Just lead.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You need to be her oak that she can grab hold of while she's having these emotional problems. She is crying out for you to take control, and YOU'RE NOT DOING IT. DO NOT ASK HER whether you need to act. JUST ACT.

well, need would be a strong word

[–]PurpleVeteranRed Beret6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Okay, let's be clear, this is either the largest pity party in the world and she is playing you like a fiddle... or she has some serious depression issues and needs to get some professional help ASAP. Beyond the fetal position theatrics, you need to understand that (a) much of what she's doing here are red flags and (b) your approach to it is neither RP nor helping the situation.

  • She's taking everything you do (positive or negative) personally. Probably because you're still so deep in her frame
  • She's forcing you to take care of the children.
  • She's making the children an audience to the drama.
  • She's lashing out and destroying things.
  • She's using the children as leverage against you.

At the same time:

  • Why are you bringing her food? That's only playing into the victim mentality.
  • When you do handle the children, it only reinforces the narrative of her as a failure.
  • Do you think that dictating a "plan of action" is going to make her feel empowered or belittled?
  • But most importantly... why would you leave your children with someone who is clearly unfit and destructive?

There's a difference between OI/NGAF and deliberately ignoring a situation that's out of control. J10 argued against DNGAF as an absolute rule, instead saying that there are certain times when you should give a single fuck. This is one of them. If she's just acting this way, then there are serious problems in your marriage. But if she is not acting, then she is a danger to herself and your family.

You've tried DEERing and placating, and those haven't worked. You've also tried to bring RP by applying dread (badly) and then trying be Captain Alpha and fixing all the shit. At the very least, you're signaling to her that you don't have any faith in her, and she's internalized this into a massive persecution complex.

she was not "out of control." The moment she realized I would take the kids she lowered her voice and put herself in a defensive position

You are completely misreading this. After this whole moping / angry / victim performance, it was removing the children that finally provoked a real reaction out of her. She knows that they are exactly the one thing that you hold dear. They are clearly the only tokens of power that she has over you. At the same time, they are also an extension of her ego. If she is really in a deep depression and lashing out, then there is reason to believe she may hurt them as well. This shit really does happen.

I am not wrapped up in how she feels. I feel no anxiety. I don't really care about saving our marriage or my sex life or whatever.

She's acting like this because you've completely disengaged. This has gone beyond an exercise in frame, and has turned toxic.

I got the number of a lawyer and will call today to arrange a consult.

That's fine, but you should also start looking for a mental health counselor for her. What you've said above would be grounds enough for involuntary commitment, especially destroying things around the children. At the very least, I would find someone you trust to come over and stay with the children during the day -- grandparents, aunts or uncles, or find someone to babysit them. This is no longer about giving your wife space or support, but protecting your family (and her as well).

Edited to add: Even if this is just an act, you need to take it at face value. First, it demonstrates that you take such threats seriously and she can't just escalate things until you cave. Second, even a professional who hears this story, and has doubts about her true state of mind, will have to treat it as an an authentic cry for help. The "nervous breakdown" is both cliché and non-technical, but it still describes a real cluster of afflictions that fit both situations.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's acting like this because you've completely disengaged. This has gone beyond an exercise in frame, and has turned toxic.

If it were about Frame he could lead her into the loving Husband Frame. But it's not about Frame.

she is playing you like a fiddle... or she has some serious depression issues and needs to get some professional help ASAP.

Oh yes, THAT is what it is about.

[–]dandar46009 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy

I think she's depressed. Why don't you get the kids to daycare and let her get a breather from them to unwind, maybe she could get a job. This sahm business is clearly not her cup of tea.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

That is my plan. I have floated the idea in the past but she's always shot it down. I am most likely going to just force this solution, however.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

she's a SAHM who cannot M.

When egg laying chickens don't lay eggs anymore, they become stewing chickens

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

SAHM is a shitty job for a lot of women. My brother is in a similar situation as you. His wife is worthless at home and won't get a job, even though she has a master's degree. I bet your wife would find a lot of purpose by having something outside the house.

edit-- After reading everything, I think you absolutely need to pull the trigger on daycare, go back to working 5 days (if that's your mission. My guess is that your mission does not include doing most of the childcare), and give your wife a small allowance. If she won't work that's her problem. She gets no more than what's needed for food and shelter. All this assumes that you're owning your mental shit. You've got the outward stuff more or less dialed in.

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

You need to get the book Attachment across the Lifecourse by David Howe. You and your wife both need to read it. This is the red pill of raising secure children.

You need to set and enforce clear boundaries. You expect to little from her and you're going out of your way to clear her path of imaginary obstacle which is excerberating the problem. I expect you're already beginning to do this and that is part of the reason she is freaking out, along with the stress of her man building his SMV and becoming more assertive.

Reactions and outbursts from her are expected and perfectly normal. It will become better if you own your shit and hold frame, provided she doesn't have mental issues.

Remember to also pass comfort tests; you're her rock.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

First off, I really appreciate the book recommendation and will definitely check it out.

You need to set and enforce clear boundaries. You expect to little from her and you're going out of your way to clear her path of imaginary obstacle which isn't excerberating the problem. I expect you're already beginning to do this and that is part of the reason she is freaking out, along with the stress of her man building his SMV and becoming more assertive.

I think this is part of it...but god damn, she does so little already. The boundaries I've set (going to the gym, going to bjj, leaving for work at 8) are so minor and affect her life so little...if she can't handle this, will she fucking die if I do more?

Again, my marriage - whatever. At this point, any resolution is fine with me. It is just so unfair to make our kids go through this shit while she "figures it out." I just want there to be something I can DO to spare them that.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

will she fucking die if I do more? [...] Again, my marriage - whatever.

You're saying you don't care, but you do. You're still trying to control things you can't control, e.g., her. Why do you give so many fucks about her and simultaneously tell us you don't care about the marriage? Look, I understand that you want the best for your kids. But if you really didn't care about the marriage, you'd hire a housekeeper, invest in good quality childcare (I would recommend Montessori), tell your wife to get a job, continue being an awesome dad, and then develop and activate an exit plan.

When my wife fails to handle her shit, I don't try to figure out how to get her to do her shit. I simply do the shit myself. Either 1) she realizes what's happening and steps up to the plate, or 2) she doesn't, and accepts that she provides no value to me in that area of shit. That's a risky attitude for a wife who is being provided for, if she's married to an awesome man. But that's not the route you're taking. You're making things exceptionally difficult for yourself by trying to control things you can't, and should never have to, control.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

My approach up until this point has been "handle her shit and wait for her to notice." She hasn't, or doesn't care, or does care and is reacting this way.

Who gives a fuck anymore. I'm looking into day cares now.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My approach up until this point has been "handle her shit and wait for her to notice." She hasn't, or doesn't care, or does care and is reacting this way.

Well at least you're starting to admit to the covert contracts.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

wait for her to notice

See anything wrong with this?

Glad you're looking into handling all the shit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

well, look at this!?

Is that a plan, without putting results at the doorstep of a woman who shows failure at every step?

someone put some life into this corpe!

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

See, your action is "wait for her to notice"

HER

FRAME

GET

OUT

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think this is part of it...but god damn, she does so little already. The boundaries I've set (going to the gym, going to bjj, leaving for work at 8) are so minor and affect her life so little...if she can't handle this, will she fucking die if I do more?

It's like with your kids, the first times they have to clean up their room they throw tantrums. Once they know there's no way around it, they just do it without fuss.

Your kids will be defined by the many years of a solid home to come, not the 10 freakouts your wife will have in the coming months.

[–]resolutions316[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your kids will be defined by the many years of a solid home to come, not the 10 freakouts your wife will have in the coming months.

This gave me some solace. I feel such anxiety over their emotional health.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. But realize that you also still feel a lot of anxiety over your wife's emotions (despite what you write about NGAF) - read and reread point #5 in the response by u/LewisCross.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

YOUR anxiety will become THEIR anxiety when they grow up. Children follow your example, not your words. Short term it will probably be more anxiety for you and for them. Long term, if handled properly, will result in well-adjusted adults.

[–]smackdatass690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What has she said when you told her that it's unfair to make your kids go through this while she "figures it out?" What is she trying to figure out? If she's unhappy being a SAHM, then she shouldn't be doing that. She should be doing something that she does enjoy that is also productive and valuable for the family. Her happiness is important, but at the same time, she needs to pull equal weight here. It can't be all on your shoulders, and if she doesn't agree then you should divorce her. If she does agree, then she needs to follow through on a plan to make that happen (ie. therapy). If she doesn't follow through on the plan, then there's nothing more you can do for her. You can only bring the horse to water. I would say to divorce at that point.

[–]rocknrollchuck3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, I second dandar4600's advice to get your kids into daycare. Set it up TODAY before this escalates any further. You guys are both focused so much on THE KIDS - you are worried about them, she is stressed out by them. Take the kids out of the equation for a little while by putting them in all-day daycare. It may only be temporary. But then you will be able to see who she REALLY is, because the "kids stressing me out" excuse will no longer be there.

Right now you are basically running around trying to put out fires as they happen. You are making no progress because you are spending all of your time on damage control. Get yourself some breathing room so things can calm down a little.

she was not "out of control." The moment she realized I would take the kids she lowered her voice and put herself in a defensive position (i.e., between me and them.)

Most people do not get "out of control." Think about what happens if you are arguing with your wife, both of you yelling at each other, and then the police knock on your door. Are you both so angry you begin to yell at the police? Of course not, because you are not really "out of control." People choose anger as a learned response. Most anger is actually either fear, a control tactic to get the other person to back off, or the default response when a person finds themselves unable to cope with a situation.

[–]zeteomegaleio3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your wife is depressed to a level that requires professional help. She can barely function as a person, much less as an adult or parent.

She pulls this shit because she gets attention from you - even if it is negative attention. You buy into it. This is just like teenagers who act out and get into trouble all the time. It is how they get attention.

This does not mean she actively knows why she is doing it. I think she is too depressed to be able to self-analyze why she acts the way she does. You really can't blame her at this point. However, you DO need to take charge of this situation immediately.

First, stop being her emotional tampon and trying to setup a system so that she can "manage the day" or whatever. She is not there. She has reached her breaking point where even waking up in the morning is cause for a mental breakdown that devolves into physically hitting things and breaking objects.

Essentially, something in her life is massively wrong. It may be that she hates you. It may be that she hates being a mother. It may be that she hates what she is doing with her life. I don't know what it is.

I'll give you an example: In the case of the latter, she may feel she is obligated to raise the kids as a SAHM despite absolutely hating it and feeling like she is trapped or throwing her life away. What happens is the lessons and stories we learn from earlier parts of our lives direct our choices, even though it might not be what we really want. In this made up scenario, an example would be that your wife's mother was a SAHM who raised her and always spoke of how virtuous it was to raise your kids. So your wife would have that life lesson driving her to consistently want to stay at home or else feel she is failing as a human being, but on the other hand she might totally hate what she is doing.

Here's the thing: Until she admits and actually addresses whatever her problem is with real action, there is no moving forward because she will just hate herself. This is why you get all the self-pity stuff like "I'm a failure as a mother" - aside from seeking attention and validation from you, she is actively admitting she loathes who she is.

Some people don't want to face it or address it, and instead keep being self-destructive or just take drugs to numb the pain and live years like an emotional zombie. And it is hard to change things in your life that are so big that they can depress you this much. Look at how hard it is to get into MRP when you're a depressed dadbod; yes, a lot of guys turn it around over the course of months or years, but it's fucking HARD even with a whole internet forum of guys giving advice and tough support. Turning into someone who actually likes and respects themselves when you're that depressed requires a shit ton of effort and going through/doing hard shit (physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually), and it will be the case for your wife as well. So this is where "being an oak" comes in - note this is different than being an emotional tampon.

The point is you absolutely need a professional to help reconcile these kinds of issues. And it may not turn out how you like. It might be a divorce if the issue is she hates being with you.

Of course, as others have said, the more you focus on yourself and becoming awesome, the more you will likely help or outright solve this issue.

And I get that you want to make sure the kids are OK as mentioned in one of your comments, and so you keep getting involved in this situation. And that's fair. So how about this: if you get involved, start taking ownership and leadership in this situation rather than trying to appease her. Stop listening to her problems and making her food when she pulls the fetal position crap. Stop demanding to know if your kids are ok with her. She sees what your buttons are and then pushes them more to get even more attention - you are playing right into it with how you currently act.

Instead, you need to put your foot down. Right now, your wife is not mentally healthy enough to take care of the kids. No one would agree with the idea that your wife is capable at this time given the stories you are providing.

You need to first get your kids into daycare. This can even be just a "temporary measure" if it makes her feel better so that she can get a break for a few weeks/months and get back to a better, happier, healthier state.

Second, we need to jump straight to going back to a therapist and possibly even medication. Forget exercise as a step; your wife can't fucking make it two days without breaking shit.

If she was seeing her old therapist more than a few months and hasn't identified why she is so fucking miserable, then it is time to get a new therapist. You want someone who is going to hold her accountable to identify the issue and start taking action on it. She should be actively working on stuff even away from the therapist - I'm not saying she should have weekly homework or otherwise suck they as a therapist, but they should definitely be making recommendations on books, workbooks, questions to consider, things to discuss with you, etc.

You have to take control of yourself and this situation. You're definitely doing better than a toxic, shitty husband who is not handling his shit, but your efforts are misguided because you are too caught up emotionally in this situation with her. You have got to detach and take a look at the facts on paper. Your wife needs help. Your kids should not be around her all day in her current state.

Then, make a plan that is in the best interests of you, your wife, and your children, and execute it without remorse no matter how hard it is. In the short term your wife may resent you for it, but if she gets better then in the long run (regardless of how things go with you and her) she'll respect you for taking the right actions to protect your family.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

~~Man as I said in the other thread, you still give way too many fucks. This is full of you trying to fix her.

I said we should talk

Why why why why

why do you overinvest. Just stop dude. Like a pile of shit, you can't fix it by meddling in it. Just stop and leave it be!!!!

Other examples of you overinesting and giving too many fucks....

back to working on my self and the marriage.

Just work on you.

your whole plan

Is you trying to fix her by prescribing her actions to the tee so she feels better so you feel better.. Way too much.

When I went outside to get the snowblower, I told her so she could come down and keep an eye on the kids; she didn't.

Good you're trying to lead, but this is a "next for the day" event - i.e. she defied you, ignore for the day, happy frame for the day, happy frame tomorrow morning.

I said goodbye to the kids and went upstairs to say goodbye to her.

No. Pile of poo, don't meddle.

and on and on on...


Look, the reason you got so angry and snapped at her is because you are still MR NICE GUY COVERT CONTRACT. you made a MAP for her, you are trying to be good for her, and when she is not reciprocating by being good to you you snap.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

solid breakdown.

Too bad op is too busy DEERing to listen

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I am trying to fix her because she spends all day alone with my kids.

I can't LEAVE it, because THEY can't grow up this way. I am not willing to waste their early years having someone tell them she doesn't want to be around them and letting them know in EVERY. WAY. POSSIBLE. that she does not want to be there.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I hear you. What you're doing doesn't help. Like I said, imagine a pile of poo. The more you meddle in it, the more it stinks, and it gets on you, and it gets on the kids.

Lead by actions. Just do your own thing. Be good for the kids. It's gonna suck for a while, but what's gonna win is a strong frame of action, and less YAP YAP YAP and trying to fix her.

Eventually she may realise that everyone around her is happy and is the one who is miserable and making her own life miserable. Or she won't and you'll leave her.

You're otherwise undermining your own self here!!!!!!

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

ugh. I have absolutely no problem working on myself and setting an example to, say, fix my sex life. Because who gives a fuck on this earth if I never have sex? No one.

But I find it SO HARD to play the long game when my kids are involved. Doing my own thing is great, but I've been doing that, and she only seems to get worse.

If that's just "the storm before the calm," great - but the kids absorb everything she says and does. And it makes me sick.

[–]RecoveringBPAddict2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Gentlemen, this is a perfect example of Deering.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

But I find it SO HARD to play the long game when my kids are involved.

You have no choice BUT to play the long game: raising kids IS an 18-year long game; she is their mother and WILL be a major factor in their lives and parenting. Suck it up, accept that nobody can give their kids a perfect disney-fantasy childhood or protect them from every bad experience or influence, and get on with making the best of the game that real life, starting from now, offers these real, imperfect children, father, and mother.

Make your peace with reality and with the fact that it's worse than it could have been in part because you have sucked as a man, leader, and family alpha, and get on with it, every day, for the next 18+ years. You've got lots of time! Your kids will be alright; in the worst case, they'll turn out like you or your wife.

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So you clearly have your own issues to work through, and they are big issues that require a lot of work. I think the regulars here have done a good job pointing this out to you, and I think you may truly understand what that means. So that aside...

It's becoming more clear to me that she has her own issues too, and those may be big ones. I know the word depression has been thrown around here, but I don't see it based on what you have said. She looks like she is feigning depression as a tactic against you, either consciously or subconsciously, but I do not think she is legit depressed. (I actually think that legit depression in females is rare, since it is inconsistent with a woman's innate solipsism and biological programming, but I digress...) She is just coming off more and more as an emotionally manipulative bitch. Now the reason why she is like this essentially comes down to two reasons:

  1. She really is an emotionally manipulative bitch because you have let her become one over the course of your marriage.
  2. She is Cluster "B", probably pretty close to Borderline Personality Disorder.

The first one you may be able to fix, but you have a lot of hard work ahead of you. What I wrote in this comment is somewhat applicable to your situation. The difference is the wife in that thread was not acting crazy, she was the opposite, aloof. But the underlying goal between the two is still the same. Both are using manipulative techniques to get what they want. The possible outcomes for you are essentially the same as I wrote in the other thread, except your wife is going to be infinitely worse than the other guy's wife.

The second outcome actually winds up being a much simpler issue. You just leave. You get out. You move on. You make as clean a break as possible, and that's it. Your kids would probably be better off with at least 50% good parenting rather than 100% crazy parenting like they are getting now. There is no fixing Cluster "B". There is no medicating Borderline Personality Disorder. There is absolutely nothing you can do to fix her. It's just cut your losses and get out as cleanly as you can.

What you need to decide is which one of the two she falls into, and you need to be very sure you are making that decision for the right reasons. And based on what we have seen here now, you cannot rule out either one right now.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're codependent. u/stonepimpletilists said it in his post to you. Fix this, fix yourself. You're in a sinking ship, no need to do anything else till the leaks are fixed.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your coddling her is feeding into the problem. Really, she needed you to feed her like a toddler? I agree with dandar, she sounds depressed. Get her the help she needs instead of throwing fuel on the fire like you are now.

So she doesn't want to be a SAHM and she doesn't want to work? Well, those are the 2 options, and she needs to pick one. You lost your frame. Use it as a learning experience.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

OP, go back through this thread, look at which comments you chose to respond to, and which you didn't.

Think real hard about why you chose the ones you did, and avoided the others. I'm seeing a trend, see if you do.

Also, starting a post with 'sigh' is a bitch move, if it's any reflection of your martyrdom at home, it speaks volumes to your current situation

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

rest assured, i'm reading and trying to process every post.

at the moment I am coordinating the mobile mental crisis team thing. They're scheduled for just after the kids go to sleep. Going home now to be with the kids.

[–]blarggggggggggg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Check out the books:
"Stop Walking on Eggshells"
"Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist"

Even if she is not true personality disorder these books will give you huge lessons on the frame you need to handle these types of situations.

[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy

We ate, and I said we should talk.

I stopped reading here.

You don't talk about deep shit until you're owning your own shit. Talk is cheap.

Acta, non verba.

[–]resolutions316[S] 2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy

I couldn't give two fucking shits about acta non verba and increasing attraction in my wife.

Nor is this about me not owning my shit. I own her shit AND my shit.

I need to know how worried I need to be about my kids.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Here is the truth - you're using your kids as an excuse to try and fix her for you.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I completely disagree. I have already set up meetings with divorce lawyers and honestly, do not care which resolution we end up at....as long as this shit is resolved.

If it were just her and me I would just work on myself. It is not just her and me.

[–]mrpthrowa3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Right, so because she's horrible with the kids, and you can't fix her, you divorce her so she gets custody and you won't even be around, right?

The truth is that she's likely much less shouty and moody when you're not around. She's doing those things because you're acting like a faggot prince trying to fix her, putting your arm around her, consoling her, etc... and that fucking enrages any woman. No woman who's moody is going to respond positively to that.

She also likely figured out (becayuse you conditioned her) that the way to get your attention is to be a horrible cunt to you and the kids - that's her way of drawing you into her frame.

And you can't stand that she's horrible so you use the kids as excuse and do a dramatic captain saver act in front of her AND the kids - no wonder she's dramatic around them - she's mirroring you.

Disengage dude. Ignore her tantrums. Stop doing these faggot talks and plans and maps that depend on her making an action to please you. So fucking unattractive!!!

[–]nonnimooseWoman, something something dark side1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The truth is that she's likely much less shouty and moody when you're not around.

And you can't stand that she's horrible so you use the kids as excuse and do a dramatic captain saver act in front of her AND the kids

I hope OP listens carefully to this. This dynamic is so harmful for the kids. They won't see it as the "sane" parent making them feel safe as he tries to fix mom's craziness. They'll see it as when dad's around, mommy hurts...things are calmer when dad's not here. Or at least it's easier to walk on the ever present eggshells when dad's not calling mom out.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

This is starting to make sense.

If I assume she is NOT as shitty around the kids, I can see how her behavior is somehow a reaction to me.

Disengage dude. Ignore her tantrums. Stop doing these faggot talks and plans and maps that depend on her making an action to please you. So fucking unattractive!!!

This all hinges on believing that she is not shitty (or worse) with them when I am not around. If I thought my getting a divorce and moving out would solve that problem I would do that today. Attraction is not my concern.

Disengaging just feels like tacit approval of her behavior with the kids. I feel the need to stand up for them, because no one else will. Is that all in my head?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This all hinges on believing that she is not shitty (or worse) with them when I am not around.

No need to believe or not; what is the evidence?

  • Were the kids offered adequate food? Ask them; ask your wife; check the trash can, sink, or whatever. (If the kids were offered food and chose not to eat it, that's their choice; they'll eat when they get hungry enough.)

  • Were the kids properly clothed?

  • Were the kids reasonably clean? Had their diapers been changed? Were they covered in fecal matter?

  • Were they hiding from your wife? Acting scared of her? (Obviously not, because the kids were playing around her oh-so-dramatic 'fetal ball' performance.)

All the evidence in the OP suggests adequate care in his absence.

OP is projecting his morbid fear of his wife's anger onto his children and equates her snapping at them with horrible abuse.

"Yeah, guess you guys are stuck with me today." The oldest immediately started repeating it, including her sour tone of voice.

But obviously the kids don't, since they can mock or A&A her without fear.

Pull your head out of your ass, /u/resolutions316, you're gaslighting yourself. You may not like her parenting style, but your kids are alright with her. Work on getting yourself out of her frame.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Disengaging just feels like tacit approval of her behavior with the kids. I feel the need to stand up for them, because no one else will. Is that all in my head?

Disengaging is your most effective weapon. What you bring to a woman is:

affection, attention, commitment

Disengaging is removing those. I fucking guarantee you that no woman can ever stand being ignored and disengaged. Given a good enough SMV and TIME. Patience. Time, let it run. Let the hamster engage.

Mastering this is going to do wonders for you. The party that cares least about a relationship holds all the power.

You will be suprised how much you can accomplish by literally exactly not doing very much at all in a relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Watching you self-doubt and rationalize your way to inaction makes my eyes bleed.

Keep thinking about it. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I own her shit, AND my shit

And that's the biggest fucking problem I see here. She curls into a ball because she can't handle kids and you wrap her in a blanket on the couch and cook her food. She says she cant handle normal parenting responsibilities and you make a detailed fix-you-up program for her. She's bad mouthing the kids to their face and being sarcastic and you pull her in for a hug.

"Don't worry women! Resolutions316 is here for you! To save you from the responsibilities of parenthood!"

You are an enabler. You totally enable her to be this way. Fuck man being captain isn't just about taking care of shit...it's establishing the roles and responsibilities you EXPECT out of your crew. And you don't take anything less than that. If your first mate cannot live up to what your expectations are, you punish and if need be kick her off your ship. Not one single behavior you describe from her would be tolerated from my wife in my house. Each and every one on its own would be divorce worthy. Yes she's a fucking shitty wife, but you need to realize that you let this happen by tolerating her yelling at the kids about a fucking toy.

Yes your kids are in danger. Emotionally, physically, mentally. Now what are you goin to do about it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's tough, because you want to make it better right now. It's not going to change overnight. You're angry. She's an anxious wreck. It takes time for her to see change and to acknowledge that you have your shit together.

You held it together pretty well for a while, but you totally fell into her frame. After months of staying out of her frame she may get the sense that you're in control. Cool, calm, collective. Supportive but not trying to fix everything. She may not fix her shit, but at least you've provided the environment for her to thrive.

Your kids will be fine. Kids in Africa are in shittier situations and they get along. They'll be better off in the long run once you get control of your emotions.

[–]abdadaRed Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

I need to know how worried I need to be about my kids.

You can't take care of anyone else until you own your shit. That's a sad fact and a lot of kids suffer in the short term while a dad tries to grow up and be a man for them.

Until you own your shit, you can't own her shit, you can't own your kids' shit. Own your shit. Set precedence for it. The kids are part of "your shit" of course, but you can't because you aren't even owning your own shit yet.

How do you expect her to be a great wife when you're making excuses, 'having talks' and going all emotional at the drop of a hat.

She is mimicking you. She is mirroring your emotions. She is following your poor leadership.

Quick question: is alcohol involved in her behavior?

[–]resolutions316[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Until you own your shit, you can't own her shit, you can't own your kids' shit. Own your shit. Set precedence for it. The kids are part of "your shit" of course, but you can't because you aren't even owning your own shit yet.

Believe me, I would LOVE for there to be one more thing I could "own" to fix this problem.

I already cut my work week down to four days so I could be home and help. I already clean up the house every night. I'm already a fun and energetic father. I take 100% responsibility for every single fucking thing I touch.

But I've been doing that for years, and it's gotten WORSE, not better. And if I simply disengage and say "Hey babe, I'ma do me now", then my KIDS are the ones that suffer. So what the fuck can I do? Seriously, if talking doesn't work, and acting as an example doesn't work, what the fuck works?

Quick question: is alcohol involved in her behavior?

I don't think so. She doesn't really like drinking and has a genetic condition that would make her face very red if she drank.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I already cut my work week down to four days so I could be home and help.

Chances are excellent this will hurt your career. If you get fired or laid off or your raises/promotions stall, wife will certainly blame you for failing. Nobody at your workplace gives a damn about your problems at home.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I own the business, so I'm not in danger of being fired. It certainly makes me less productive, however.

[–]abdadaRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I already cut my work week down to four days so I could be home and help

That's not your shit, though. Work 6 days and hire a housekeeper.

I already clean up the house every night.

Stop cleaning, start throwing shit away.

But I've been doing that for years, and it's gotten WORSE, not better.

And? Can you get a better woman tonight if you wanted to? If not, then you haven't done shit. If you can, then at some point you get rid of the dead weight and find a woman who your kids will respect you for being with.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That's not your shit, though. Work 6 days and hire a housekeeper.

Sigh. I already pay for house cleaners. And I would love to throw shit away, but we're mostly talking dishes. I get the overall point though.

And? Can you get a better woman tonight if you wanted to? If not, then you haven't done shit. If you can, then at some point you get rid of the dead weight and find a woman who your kids will respect you for being with

Is this the answer for me right now? There is no productive way of addressing my wife's behavior towards my kids? This is all about her being attracted to me, or not? (That sounds bitchy but I mean it as a legitimate question)

[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you feel the kids are in danger at the moment, grab them and say "we're going to the park" or something and leave with them. There's no need to make threats and ultimatums that you aren't actually willing to do.

And if you ARE willing to do something, DO IT instead of talking about it.

You know how I divorced my wife? Not by threatening it once. No, one day I just walked out the door and the next thing she heard from me was when my divorce papers were served a few days later.

Acta, non verba. Including with the kids. ESPECIALLY with the kids.

If she can't wash dishes, switch to Chinet and throw them away.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is no productive way of addressing my wife's behavior towards my kids?

Directly, no. She is their mother. Unless her behavior is so outrageous for you to be awarded sole custody, she has the right, and responsibility, to parent them in the manner she sees fit. Pro-tip: yelling at your kids is not itself grounds for taking them away, as your lawyer will tell you.

Like her mother and the millions of other narcissistic or BPD mothers out there, she believes that the best way to control the kids' behavior is to make them feel bad because she is unhappy, and train them to behave as she wants in order to relieve her unhappiness. This is likely how her mother raised her, so she learned this as standard parenting behavior. This is exactly the same behavior that has worked so well on you, so you have been, and still are, reinforcing this behavior, and teaching your kids to do so as well.

Sorry, but as their mother, she can parent by yelling and guilting if she wants to; millions of mothers (and many BP fathers) in America today are doing exactly that. Your real choices are to

  • Divorce with shared custody; you parent your way 50% of the time, and she parents her way the other 50%.

  • Stay married and in her frame; you parent your way, she parents her way, and the kids maneuver around that as best they can, also as in millions of families today.

  • Stay married and you build your own frame that is strong enough, attractive enough, and appealing enough that your wife willingly chooses to change her behaviors to follow your lead.

[–]tslextslex2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She is clinically depressed. Depression of that sort is chemical. It gets fixed, for the most part, with chemicals. Doctors can prescribe those chemicals.

No, I'm not a psych doc. Yes, diagnosing people on the internet is BS. But this isn't terribly complex.

Try this: Take the post you have above and strip out everything except factual descriptions of her conduct and direct quotes of her statements. Show the result to literally any MD.

Hint: Most docs will read ". . . my wife in a fetal ball, face down on the ground . . . she hadn't eaten all day," stop there, and write a scrip for sertraline.

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Given the situation, you did pretty well.

If that doesn't help, we will get her a part time job and the kids will go to daycare part of the week.

This part was masterful. You laid out a plan with multiple contingencies and something she clearly doesn't want at the end. Perfect carrot and stick.

"ARE MY KIDS SAFE IN THIS HOUSE RIGHT NOW?"

Don't apologize for caring about you kids when you wife is clearly throwing a tantrum and acting irrationally. This is your fucking job, to take care of the family. If the FO can't be trusted, the FO must be stripped of rank.

I cannot and will not continue to give up parts of my life, to bend over backwards, to help her in a million ways. Her life is hard, for sure. But she needs to adapt to it and change it. Period.

No, it's not hard. You have been baffled by her bullshit. Open your eyes Neo.

Good for talking to a lawyer, you need to understand your options. Your wife is dead weight, probably because you have let her be. Realize it's going to get worse before it gets better. You will be tested, this is just the beginning.

[–]RecoveringBPAddict0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, all your comments on here read like a giant emotional tampon. Doing the right thing doesn't mean everything will necessarily blow up. Things CANNOT continue as they are. The only chance she has to change is if you change. You are dicking around with all talk and no action.

She might come around or she might not. What is clear is that you are not being you and your kids are suffering the worse for it. You are talking and not leading. You don't have any good short term options right now. Protecting your kids by removing her somehow till she gets her shit together seems to be the least bad option, but since you still insist on being a pussy, you kids will only suffer more.

[–]Griever1140 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Frankly, outside the advice here. I highly suggest the following:

  1. Keep being the #1 dad while she keeps freaking the fuck out.

  2. DOCUMENT THE SHIT OUT OF THIS. Lawyer up.

  3. Lawyer up and next her.

Forget plugging up holes in a sinking ship, she is clearly unfit and there is no need to keep dead weight around..

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

see update above

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Congrats on marrying a fucking child and by spoiling her and entering her frame daily she is controlling her beta bitch like a cat with a ball of string

Grow a fucking back bone, get your ass home and send her shit packing when she wants to leave the house

Quit fucking trying to fix her shit. She is nothing but a spoiled child And, you are responsible for it. Remember, it's you Fuck almighty - "I did the dishes so she could sleep in..."

Grow the fuck up and treat her like a fucking adult and she might start acting like one

Remember the sex toy comment ? That's called manipulation, and she has you right where she wants you, daily

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks everyone for the comments, whatever they are. I have no one to speak to about these things day to day.

You are a man....... get used to being alone. Do the right thing and you will be amazed @ how many friends will actually be by your side when you need them

[–]Soberskipper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If your frame was better I suspect if you put your foot down properly she would take you seriously. But she just acts like a hormonal insane bratty teen because she can. Your putting up with some absolute bullshit here. You need to seriously enforce any boundaries you set, and the punishments need to be ruthless. Tell her if the kids aren't having fun, been fed and watered properly, learning shit and she's not engaging with them while your out EARNING MONEY which I'm sure she likes to spend you'll find them a new fucking mum. And the new fucking mum will have better tits and ass, and fuck like a porn star. Your women is low quality maybe it's time to let her know.

[–]smackdatass690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are definitely not a shitty husband. It sounds like you and your wife lack trust in your relationship and have communication problems.

You are doing the best you can in this difficult situation. It's really hard to tell sometimes who is thinking perfectly logically and who has crossed lines. Just know that whatever you decide, you have your kids at heart, and knowing that, you can never go wrong if you trust your gut.



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