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LTR - Fiancee wants hyphenated last name. Thinking of parting ways (reason inside)

Reddit View
February 22, 2017
11 upvotes

I've been dating the same girl for around 6 years now. I popped the question a while back, but I'm debating breaking up now. Randomly, while were discussing our plans, she said she wanted a hyphenated last name. It went like this
  So, I've been thinking and I want a hyphenated last name
 
m: a lot of people do that, I've never really thought about it. have you thought about why?
 
her: I don't know, I feel like it helps me keep some independence
  m: you're right marriage is a one-way hostage(tongue in cheek, btw), what about kids, when they come?
(for reference, I only asked this because I know girls get all dreamy and weird when you start talking about the future)
    her: I don't know
  m: cool, you talk to your dad about it?
(she's raised by a single dad - he's pretty cool, pretty redpilled, won custody of his daughter back in 92 or something)
  her: I didnt ask him, I asked [her best female friend who is single and pregnant].
  m: So, why'd ya bring it up ya goof?
her: I don't know, I guess
  m: lets go to to bed, babe
sex
  here I am today   please advise? seems like a red flag.
I'm not really here nor there about breaking up. I am fond of her, but I'd rather break up before we're married. I can watch for red flags, but we're getting married in November. Don't wanna wait too long.

thanks /r/askMRP in advance. independence + marriage sounds pretty fucking stupid.

 

I made an edit but I'm not sure what happened to it. Anyway case seems to be closed on her end, but I'm pretty put off of marriage already now. As I said to a poster as a reply:

Thanks for the well thought out and written reply. I really appreciate it. I had posted an edit to the OP with what happened when I told her when I got home from work - before she left for work but I'm not sure what happened. It was brief. I said something like, you know, if you want more independence you could always move out (tongue in cheek), she called me a dick (tongue in cheek) I said something along the lines of "in all seriousness if we're going to get married, you get the dress, ring, last name and get to call yourself mine" she kinda just giggled and left for work. She shot me a text just about five minutes ago saying "you know what, [her first name] + [my last name] has a better ring to it anyway, love you <3" I guess she got concerned and is now trying to do damage control, but personally this whole thing woke me up to how little I actually want to go through the trouble of this shit when what we have is fine.


Post Information
Title LTR - Fiancee wants hyphenated last name. Thinking of parting ways (reason inside)
Author notMYlastname-
Upvotes 11
Comments 122
Date 22 February 2017 01:12 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206486
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5vikx4/ltr_fiancee_wants_hyphenated_last_name_thinking/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
long term relationship
Comments

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (18 children) | Copy

If she's a doctor, lawyer, or other professional and has already established her career under her surname, it may be advantageous from a career perspective for her to keep the name. A high-earning woman is insurance against divorce rape. Personally, I wouldn't care if my wife changed her name back because I'm confident in myself.

Now, marriage is such a shitty deal for men that you need to be 110% sure that she isn't entertaining ideas of bolting. Men are independent. A marriage-worthy woman doesn't dream of independence.

I wouldn't drop her over this. But make sure she isn't showing signs of waffling.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I believe a girl came in asking this very questions /u/samsonbrass had the best response. Can't find it ATM.

But the gist? why would a guy sign up to be second fiddle?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

She's currently a server, part time schooling for Human Resources. She doesn't need to keep the name for her clientele or status.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

thinking back on this. She doesn't value you sacraficing the rest of your life to commit to her, tie your finances to her etc. not enough to change her name?

think about it. She in debt? She run the house like a champ? If you weren't there, would she be in a messy house with jars of pickles for dinner?

How little does she recieve from you that she feels entitled to maintain separation from 'your' financial/sexual commitment?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

We're on equal footing with chores and bills. We generally do chores together, grocery shopping laundry etc. Bills - we cover our own. Rent we split. She's not as tidy as I am but she's tidy. I updated the OP with the short conversation we had before she went off to work but before where I was neither here nor there about marriage to this woman, whom I care deeply about yadda yadda - but I never really cared for marriage and there wasn't any illusion that it was going to be the greatest or best thing to ever happen, or even something I would care about - But these little "extras" that come with it - trying to maintain some sort of Single but Married status or something, it's just putting me off the whole idea. I was apathetic before, now I'm not interested. I think I'd like to call it off indefinitely, just gotta figure out how to word it as no offence to her, because it's not. If she bounces because of that, oh well.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Theres no way to call it off without offending her. stop walking on eggshells and own shit.

Look, it's either important, or it isn't, and right now, you're acting like a bitch. Pick a side and stick to it

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

Human Resources

Such a loaded term. She voted for Hillary?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

We're canadian. She would've.

edit: in her defence it's a bachelor in business management with a focus on management and HR

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why is she only part time in school? Get it done, get a job. Unless ..... she is biding her time waiting for you to support her. I'll bet this is the correct answer. Not getting down to business and finishing school full time is a major red flag. You are either an earner or a taker. Which is she?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

She's working full time so she can pay for education without student loans. She already completed college in something useless (holistic nutrition).

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bullshit...

Edit: To clarify, she and you are both full of it. Any person, especially a "business" major can evaluate the opportunity loss by delaying school vs taking on loans and getting done fast. Assuming she will make a shit ton more working after her degree than part time being a waitress, in the short term just focus on getting done school, then you will be earning a respectable income soon. Or, the other option is she is slow playing it because she is SAHM bound. "School" is the ultimate lazy person out if they don't want to be productive. Also, her already having a degree for something useless cements this. I would say you should next her for this BS alone, but since you also rationalize her actions you probably deserve each-other.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have a similar degree it it doesn't mean shit until you reach higher management

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What's required for higher management? MBA?

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends on the company. A business degree on its own generally gets you an entry level position

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a signpost. It's for a road that you don't want to be on. I would never marry a woman who wouldn't take my name. What do I want with a woman who at the very outset is demonstrably not on my team?

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

My wife kept her maiden name professionally for a year or so after we got married, but she always made clear she was going to take my name eventually. When she switched jobs, she made the jump completely, and adopted her maiden name as her middle name and my last name as her last name. It has been that way ever since. So she now gives her full legal name as: Firstname Maidenname Mylastname, and goes by Firstname Mylastname. She has completely dropped her original middle name.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

My username indicates that I am a woman, but clarifying so there is no confusion. I'm aware of how that affects my participation on this forum, so there's no advice just my personal experience changing my last name.

I just wanted to second what you said about your wife, and reaffirm that it is a possibility. My husband made it clear from the beginning that any wife of his would be expected to take his last name, and have the same last name as his future children. I was thrilled to take his last name, but went a route similar to your wife. My maiden name (for example, not real) was Jane Ann Doe. My Married Name is Jane Ann Doe Smith. First Name: Jane, Middle Name: Ann Doe, Last Name: Smith. I go by Jane Smith. I sign documents as Jane A. D. Smith. I haven't referred to myself as Jane Doe since my wedding day, unless I'm clarifying that I used to be Jane Doe, but am now Jane Smith.

Unlike OP's LTR, I did have a professional career prior to marriage, but I found it relatively easy to get a new professional license, updated diplomas (there's a requirement we have them displayed), email, etc. I wanted create a second middle name, because my maiden name is very unique (a cultural thing) and was always my nickname growing up. I asked my husband's permission, and he was supportive because I did not intend to hold myself out as Jane Doe in any manner. In fact, I don't think anyone outside of my nuclear family knows what my full name is. Today, in the US at least, your name can pretty much be whatever you want it to be, so it was no problem changing my name so that I have two middle names.

Edit: grammatical errors and clarification

[–]nombre1-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

your name can pretty much be whatever you want it to be, so it was no problem changing my name so that I have two middle names

I have several friends with two middle names. As long as it fits on your driver's license (and even when it doesn't), you're fine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My wife did the same thing for visa and professional reasons by keeping her maiden name. Her professional life she has her maiden name but in the rest of her life it's my family name. I don't interact with her on a professional basis, so I don't care what she calls herself at work. In my life with her I expected her to take my family name.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

Is it a dealbreaker? If so, break the deal.

Whats the issue here, want permission to do what you want with your life?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

I just wanted to know if I was overreacting. To end a six year relationship over someone who cites a hyphenated last name gives them independence in a marriage(?)

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

Who gives a fuck if you are?

I'm hereby awarding you permission to do whatever you deem best for your long term happiness, and to no longer require sign off from everyone else in your life

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll read that after work! Thanks

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Wow! I could have used that permission long, long ago. Dude is a lucky guy!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Im running off no sleep and cranky, or the level of faggot has risen considerably this week.

Probably tired, these stories all sound the same now

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm hereby awarding you permission to do whatever you deem best for your long term happiness, and to no longer require sign off from everyone else in your life

Yes OP, you are special. I didn't get that either.

Stoney, you should give out little star shaped stickers that say "Permission Award".

Now I'ma pissed that I missed out.

[–]weakandsensitive5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You can end a relationship over whatever reason you damn well choose - just own your shit. Getting into the mindset of sunken costs is a pitfall you want to avoid.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. Thanks for the insight.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Best answer.

This issue of her changing her last name to her husband's is just one of personal preference and deeply held values. This either is important or it's not. It was important to me. It's not important to other guys. It wasn't a "dealbreaker" then but it would be now.

Well done.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Depends on the man/culture.

For me, It's a no go.

You can remain an LTR but marriage means she is leaving her clan and joining your's.

I wrote a guest post about the need for men to reclaim their family honor & take pride in the name of their masculine ancestors.

http://darktriadman.com/2017/02/11/primal-fury-of-family-honor/

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I will check it out after work, thank you.

[–]Aaren_Augustine5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

I imagine this - A quality man will lead. A quality woman will follow a quality man.

Hyphenated last name makes it seem like she's a woman who will defer to a man IF she agrees to the rationale on a case by case basis. But will rarely submit outright due to perpetual vetting well after marriage.

Meaning, it will always be a battle to convince her even if you've got nothing to prove. RPWi had this example about a guy warning his wife to duck. She asked why rather than just trusting him, thus getting smacked by an incoming object.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great example there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Got a link? I love shit like this, makes my mornings

[–]Aaren_Augustine1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh, thats a keeper :)

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this as well.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

It is up to you.

My mom never changed her last name because at the time, logistics for it were annoying AF. Don't know about their intimate lives (and don't want to)... but she is a very traditional wife otherwise.

I have my father's last name.

It is really all about what it means to you.

independence + marriage sounds pretty fucking stupid.

Yes, it does. SO tell her this. If its a deal breaker for you, just tell her this. Its very simple.

The red flag... more like pink, is that she still values the opinion of single preggo.

Story time :

When I met my current wife, she wanted to try for med school. I was already a doc. Said - you can, but its a choice between being with me or trying for med school. I am not going through that crap again. ( and explained the logistical BS of a relationship while trying to be a doc). She hemmed and hawed. No med school .

I didn't say she couldn't do it. I said I wouldn't be in her life if she did. Simple

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

The red flag... more like pink, is that she still values the opinion of single preggo.

That looks like the big take away to me as well. It sounds like she is unsure what to do and may be looking for guidance or input, but it is clear from this that she does not think high enough of OP's opinion on it that she has to resort to a single mommy for advice on a subject she (presumably) knows nothing about.

I would make clear that this issue is non-negotiable, and that she takes my name with no hyphen. I wouldn't do this ultimatum style, don't be all butthurt, but just act as if you always expected her to take your name, that this is the natural course of things and how it was always going to be. Don't demand, don't threaten, just be like, "oh, of course you are going to take my name. Let's see what we need to do in order to make that transition as smooth as possible. First off, let's start with a good fucking..." Then, you know, cock slap her face a few times and make her scream out her own married name during sex.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wonder what happens when her divorced friends decide to take her to mexico?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not interested in raising a mexican child. Not that I have anything against mexicans, but yeah. I'm not interested in wondering what happens. Let's put it this way.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's funny, because since getting engaged I've kind of been like "you're my last name now!" occassionally as a joke and she'd get all lovey dovey. This COULD have been my mistake but I doubt it because Single pregnant best friend probably said I was controlling or something.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I doubt it because Single pregnant best friend probably said I was controlling or something.

"Guess there's a reason she's single and pregnant isn't there."

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. Her friend is a fucking idiot. I tell her all the time. They were childhood friends and her friend has apparently always been a fucking idiot, but she wants her childhood friend back and doesn't know how to cut losses. She said "if she's still unappreciative of me if I try to help her deal with her pregnancy then I'm cutting her loose for good" but, women. This whole exercise of writing everything down and replying to everyone's responses has been incredible for making how I feel and where I stand clear, thanks again to you, and to everyone ITT. I'll be using this account instead of as a throwaway with intentions to contribute more to the community instead of just lurking. It's important.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

is that she still values the opinion of single preggo.

^ big red flag.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the absence of other opinions...

but yes

[–]Gogo4u4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Sounds like a shit test.

"pff what makes you think I was gonna let you use my last name at all? "

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds like a shit test.

Maybe, not likely. It came off from his post that she may legitimately looking for advice on what to do. Not everything a woman does is a shit test.

"pff what makes you think I was gonna let you use my last name at all? "

Nice swing, but it's still a miss. Something like her taking your last name in marriage is a big deal, and is a boundary that should not be crossed. By treating it as a shit test the way you do you sacrifice that boundary just to score some temporary attraction points. Some things transcend simple shit tests, and are foundational non-negotiable issues. This is one of them.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with this. That's why I got out of the convo, did the regular routine action wise (sex) and went to bed. So I could sort of digest it and create a plan this morning.

[–]anythingincRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree it is like a shit test.

Same as a woman asking for any pie-in-the-sky bullshit from her man.

No condom tonight please baby

Aren't you ovulating? Ha, no.

Sally got a lexus with a bow for Christmas

Good for her

This Instagram/Facebook lifestyle though!!

Yeah, that's great

Ever thought about watching me fuck someone else?

HAHAHA

I want to hyphenate our names

Yeah, not gonna happen

Another one of the million things a woman wants her respectful "nice guy" equal partner to go over the top for her with, do any of us want to be that guy?

Some things transcend simple shit tests, and are foundational non-negotiable issues. This is one of them.

A woman doesn't KNOW this, and OP didn't have the frame needed for it to go without saying. Whomp Whomp.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not a shit test. There was no aggression, standoffishness, bitch-shield or anything...It was just, weird and a little immature. She sounded like a little kid during it.

[–]DonaldBaelish3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely NO! I have a similar story when one of my LTRs was "Marriage Testing" while also throwing shit at me simultaneously. This is about an year before I found TRP.

I have to point out that I come from a country where last names are symbolic. The girl's last name symbolized people who killed wolves and mine means nothing essential. But I dont give fuck if your grandfather killed wolves, bitch. This is my world. You either take my name or you are out.

This is the short story. I was sending her home when she randomly threw "You know what , if we get married I am not taking your last name". This caught me absolutely off guard. I looked at her and executed my first ever reactive soft next unkowingly. I told her "No , you aren't taking my last name at all. I am not fucking giving it to you. Ever." I left and did not answer her non-stop texts for the next week. Broke up with her a few months after finding the sub.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. That was a good read. Proud of you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is a non-issue for me. Could not care less if everything else works.

[–]PurpleVeteranRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Randomly, while were discussing our plans, she said she wanted a hyphenated last name.

You mean, like logistics for marriage? Yeah, that's completely out of left field. /s

I'm not really here nor there about breaking up. I am fond of her, but I'd rather break up before we're married.

It seems like the whole name thing is a red herring. You seem to be looking for a reason to ditch her, and this was the best you could come up with. You didn't even have an opinion on it until she brought it up.

Don't wanna wait too long.

Don't fuck around -- break up with her now. You're clearly not ready for marriage, and you'll just end up wasting years of both of your lives while figuring that out.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think it's a red herring, because I didn't expect that at all. It's not a common thing in my country to even do. Is marriage for men something that's supposed to be wonderful and awesome and something to look forward to? It changes nothing for me except for not getting screwed by common law. We don't fight, but I don't feel "in love" like I did was a kid. I just thought I didn't get "little crushes" like I did when I was a teen. Are men usually excited about marriage? I care about her, but I don't want to marry someone who thinks that engagement is the time to find independence.

FWIW, i'm not ignoring your advice, either. I'm keeping it in mind. Thanks.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Absent from this is you stating what you want.

Did you tell her you want your wife to use your name full stop?

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not yet. I don't like making rebuttals when she introduces the conversation unless she's being what I think is passive-aggressive. I'm of the opinion when a woman approaches me inquisitively, they kind of already know what answer they want to hear. Tends to be an exercise in futility for me. I tend to listen, say little, then talk on my own terms. Which is going to be probably tonight.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

futility

kill that from your life

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

throwaway obviously

fuck that's annoying.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing English is your second language.

Do you want her to have a hyphenated last name? You haven't really said what you want. Tell us what you want and maybe we can help you.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

What made you think english is my second language? Maybe I worded my OP poor, I was kinda typing it quick at work before work started. It's a throwaway because my reddit account isn't private to anyone including friends & fiancee. I don't want to have a hyphenated last name, because of what I feel it might represent, especially based on what she said "independence". That sounds pretty...weird. I wasn't upfront with her immediately because I like to answer these things on my own terms. I don't really respond to her initiating stuff because in my experience, if someone (especially women) approach me with a question, they already know what answer they want. I tend to wait until I'm ready to talk to them properly and logically.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm not really here nor there about breaking up. I am fond of her, but I'd rather break up before we're married. I can watch for red flags, but we're getting married in November. Don't wanna wait too long.

Really poorly written.

A couple of things. Using a throwaway is a way to tell us that you're here for a quick bit of advice and then you're fucking off. Create an MRP account and use it, commit to being a better man.

I would have joked with her and said a hyphenated name or title that comes to mind is "ex-wife".

She's a server and has no real reason. She's testing you and your wishy washy response was a fail. Let her know that your wife will take your last name. And then change the subject.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the response. That's helpful. I'm a longtime reader on my main account. I don't exactly feel I am ready to contribute to others cases, however.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I suggest you create an account, introduce yourself via OYS and proceed with being an active member on the two subs.

you'll get better feedback that way.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll do that tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Do you want her to have a hyphenated last name?

If he says anything other than, no, then he is a pussy, full stop. The man is head of the household.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Agreed most of the time. If she's an established professional, I could see her wanting to keep her name. A doctor, for instance, will usually keep their last name in my country

Before we get to that, however, I want to see a better post.

If a guy can't articulate what he wants to us, it's unlikely he can say it to her.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not established professional. Server who went back to school part time for HR

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I mulled over immediately answering because I am generally the fun/silly guy, but serious when I need to be. Since it took me off guard, I pulled a Law of Power (always say less than necessary) until I was sure I dealt with it the way I would usually. A couple of people have mentioned to me that the post is pretty poorly written. Looking back I can see that. I kinda posted it as fast as I could before starting work for the day. Apologies for that.

[–]sven_igortsen1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you're this on the fence about marrying her, it's not because of some vague idea she's asking you, about how to write down her surname. Dude if you're not excited about getting married and having a family with this girl, don't do it.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not that I'm not excited. I just try to keep my emotions in check. A marriage is cool, if it's going to make my living experience better.

edit: I mean "enrich my life"

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's a dealbreaker for me, and I told my wife as much. I told her not in the context of our own marriage, but much earlier, in casual conversations, etc. By the time our marriage came up, she knew what the deal was.

But yeah, if you want to let your wife have a badge of honor that's she is the one that wears the pants in the family, by all means let her hyphenate.

I think of it this way, I have invited you to join my family. If you don't want to join all the way, then it's best to not get married.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great analogy. I agree.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

just draw the line at no. if she leaves over it, her loss. If she stays, you are rewarding, and she is offering, the right behaviors.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah. What kind of rough flow of conversation would that be like assuming I'm opening the discussion? If you don't mind.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

wait for her to bring it up. When she does, say something like "I want you to be my girl, and my girl will take my name. It's really up to you." -> pressure flip.

But then change the subject fast to something fun. Put on some music and dance with her. Make silly faces. Get scoops of ice cream. Do whatever it is you do. If she continues to try to bring it up while you dance, say something like "Nothing changes right now. You don't have to decide right now (pause) but you do need to decide so we can set a date." If she continues to persist, then it might be time for a little absence.

The point is: Draw a clear boundary, you don't need to repeat yourself 10,000 times. Draw the boundary, be fun, have fun, let her decide on her own timetable.

HTH.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is fantastic. I mulled over immediately answering because I am generally the fun/silly guy, but serious when I need to be. Since it took me off guard, I pulled a Law of Power (always say less than necessary) until I was sure I dealt with it the way I would usually.

[–]anythingincRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Are you afraid of her emotions and responses? Afraid she might leave over this? That doesn't bode well.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not afraid of her emotions and responses. I'm not afraid she might leave over this. My original concern was that, I was the one being foolish if I thought to myself it's a deal breaker. With all the posts and advice referenced here though, I can see that's not something I need to worry about because it's my life and I should live it how I choose. If that breaks the rules, then she's out. That's the message I'm getting, and it's the message I agree with. I stumbled a little bit in thinking I might be over-reacting for whatever reason - maybe not enough positive reinforcement or interaction with other red pillers - as I usually lurk, but my confidence that nothing is wrong for me to want things in my life go the way I want them too has been restored since I made the thread. I'm actually going to go ahead and edit the OP to include this.

[–]Griever1141 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

What i want to know is why are you getting married? Most of us here got married BEFORE taking the pill.

What exactly will you benefit from marriage? Especially to someone so easily influenced by her friends and whom ignores her father for advice.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I need to think long and hard about if I have an answer to this question.

[–]Griever1140 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

In my opinion this needs to be taken care of before you do anything.

Frankly, marriage should be abolished in its current form. There is LITERALLY no difference between dating exclusively and marriage. None. Legal marriage is nothing more than playing russian roulette with your future even if you are top alpha Chad Thundercock because at the end of the day the singular truth you hear here always rings true:

This is just your turn on her carousel.

Thats my 2 cents.

I'm not really here nor there about breaking up. I am fond of her, but I'd rather break up before we're married. I can watch for red flags, but we're getting married in November. Don't wanna wait too long.

^ Really read this comment you wrote. You seem completely ambivalent to your future spouse. Just remember that she is gonna give her best (which is an arbitrary term) before that county clerk paper is signed. After that ring is on, she has NOTHING to work toward. She snagged the bee and is in a perfect place to fuck you over even if you have your shit together.

Seriously think about this.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Where I live, common law can hit you harder than divorce with pre-nup but I'd have to look into it more to confirm. I don't like the marriage idea, I would be doing it mostly for my family before my grandmother passes and because it's a big cultural thing in my background. I'm the only offspring not married, I don't know how it is in other families but some cultures can pretty much ostracize you because of refusing to "get married and start a family" It's pretty bullshit, my family is important to me, but I don't think it's a good reason. I would have no problems marrying her, if as you say she maintains her good behavior forever - but that's not really something I'd bet on either.

edit: Best way I could put it is: I respect her, our time together and we have intimacy. I don't know if there's more to a relationship than that. I thought that's all there was when it came to, proper healthy relationships.

[–]Griever1143 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

  1. RE the law: Before you pull that trigger, make sure you consult a lawyer. At this point, i am not really feeling the "till death do you part, eternal love" vibe from you. In fact, with this post, it seems like some other gun is being put in your face.

  2. I will not lie, I have personal bias on this that reinforced my ability to say "fuck family." My problem with your post, again, i see 9 excuses/reasons to not get married/problems you have and only a HALF reason to marry her:

Con Column:

  • I don't like the marriage idea

  • I would be doing it mostly for my family

  • before my grandmother passes

  • because it's a big cultural thing in my background

  • I'm the only offspring not married

  • some cultures can pretty much ostracize you because of refusing to "get married and start a family"

  • It's pretty bullshit

  • my family is important to me, but I don't think it's a good reason

  • I would have no problems marrying her, if as you say she maintains her good behavior forever - but that's not really something I'd bet on either. (never gonna happen if you arent leading but she can still branch swing at a moments notice)

Pro:

  • IF SHE MAINTAINS HER GOOD BEHAVIOR.

Im going to level with you. I understand there are many cultures that pull this kinda shit and frankly, it infuriates me worse than anything. At the end of the day, you need to make a big choice: get married and roll the dice making everyone else fucking happy but yourself.

Or you can grow a pair of balls and make your own decisions and accept, AS A MAN that this is your life to lead... not your fucking family's.

If i were you (coming from similar familial bullshit), I would opt out of this nightmare and start over. Ive had the family card dropped on my my whole life and frankly, ive found non-blood family ties STRONGER than blood ties.

Im not telling you what to do... im saying, from a stranger's perspective, you sound like you are going to be spending the rest of your life making everyone else happy and this will bite you in the ass.

Remember one thing, this is YOUR LIFE. Not your family's.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the well thought out and written reply. I really appreciate it. I had posted an edit to the OP with what happened when I told her when I got home from work - before she left for work but I'm not sure what happened. It was brief. I said something like, you know, if you want more independence you could always move out (tongue in cheek), she called me a dick (tongue in cheek)   I said something along the lines of "in all seriousness if we're going to get married, you get the dress, ring, last name and get to call yourself mine" she kinda just giggled and left for work.

  She shot me a text just about five minutes ago saying "you know what, [her first name] + [my last name] has a better ring to it anyway, love you <3"   I guess she got concerned and is now trying to do damage control, but personally this whole thing woke me up to how little I actually want to go through the trouble of this shit when what we have is fine.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

how mich resistance is she showing? If she's that hesitant to give up her name for you, then she's gonna be pretty stubborn throughout the marriage about other minor things. Tread carefully.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

None currently, I didn't express my opinion to her at the time because I like to not really speak my mind until I have a clear dialogue that I can expect to be leading and guiding the conversation flow in the direction i want

[–]mrpCamper1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

My wife wanted to keep her last name originally. She was in a career where the argument was strong. She kept it for less than a year before deciding it was stupid. she changed her last name to her middle name, dropping her original middle name and took my last name.

It bothered me at first but I didn't say anything. I just said I didn't care. Obviously I was blue pill back then.

Point is, right now your wife is toying with the idea. I believe if you said it was important to you that she take your name - not tell her to but let her know you care about it - she will take that into consideration and come to the right conclusion.

Right now she is hearing things from friends and not from you or her father. Once she gets input from you and him, she will probably see things differently. At least wait until that point before making any decisions.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

She appeared to have changed her mind over one sentence from me. pretty ridiculous exercise.

[–]mrpCamper1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You would know better but from my experience with women... She may not have changed her mind as it wasn't set. It was in a wishy washy state. A really good book to explain this is The Way of the Superior Man. It really gets into how a man converses with a woman and how women live in the moment and on their feelings. This was probably just a feeling she got after the conversation with her friend. She would get a different feeling after talking about it with you and her dad. imo.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's testing your boundaries. Have you firmly established boundaries in your relationship?

[–]MrsTroubadix0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Does she do a lot of publishing? Has she done scientific publishing? Has she acquired an academic degree?

If yes she would be foolish not to hyphenate at least on paper.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No. Server, going back to school part time for HR

[–]MrsTroubadix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Then you might have a point.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill[M] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Remember you are a guest in our locker room. As a woman, you should offer your prospective, not advice. I see from your history that you recently started to participate on AskMRP, so hopefully this is news to you.

[–]MrsTroubadix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ok, I will heed this advice!

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You want my opinion? Compromise. Don't hyphenate. Use her last name as a middle name and it's all good- unless there is more.

If this really is a dealbreaker for you then make it a dealbreaker and stop pussy footing around.

[–]LymanRP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like you can probably lead her in the direction of taking your name if you maintain frame. Career implications are also important to consider.

Frankly I think it's less important that the wife changes her name... but under no circumstances will future children have her, or a hyphenated name. The man is the leader of the family, and his offspring should have his name. I live in a big city and know of people who combine last names... e.g. Brown + Smith ==> Brith (or some instances where the guy takes the girl's name). Shut that shit down if it ever

[her best female friend who is single and pregnant].

This is a 'pink' flag IMO. Women put an unnecessary weight to the opinions of their friends, and this one definitely does not sound like a great example.

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That appears to be what happened. I simply brought it up and she instantly changed her mind. Lmao.

[–]Moobx0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

So she wants to make sure people think she is independent while u are providing for her. .? Has she downplayed in the past how much u do for her, and ur guys future? Because if she doesn't see it now and believes she is contributing equally to the relationship (thus believing she is entitled to half), what do u believe u can do after u are married to change that?

Edit: just read this to bf and he says: u might as well tell her that it sounds like she doesn't want a legal marriage (court wedding), and so to further her independence u guys can just do the ceremony without signing papers. No one has to change names at all and now she looks even more independent!

[–]notMYlastname-[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds like your boyfriend and I had the same line of thought. I ended up saying if she wants more independence she could move out. Lol.

[–]Moobx1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yea that was also one of his responses, along with "he dumped her right?!"

The real shocking part to me is that op is with a girl that is working as a server for 6 yrs and he hasn't questioned marriage with her until this happened...

[–]notMYlastname-[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

She went to school for holistic nutrition. Found out it was hot garbage. Currently back in school for hr & business management - paying tuition & bills serving. I wouldn't be in a LTR with someone who thinks serving is a career.

[–]Moobx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Alright

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

FIL wanted my kids to be drty/(wife). Wasn't happening. Not my fault his 2 boys are doing their job to carry on the name.

[–]hypergamous0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Even if she does take your name, there are other issues to consider. Have you discussed if she will be a SAHM? The timeline for children?

A wife taking your name is no guarantee for success. I know it's not romantic, but this is a business contract. Do you know what she's expecting for you to obligate to?

We are talking about your life, future financial obligations and potential children. Marriage is the ultimate stress test. Is this the person you want to have as second in command on your ship?

Are you ready for Red Pill on hard mode?

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Keeping her name and hyphenating are not indicators of commitment. If your girl is published or renowned, there is a PARTIAL possibility that you let it slide. I wouldn't though. Take my damn name exclusively or no deal. The beauty is, it's her choice. Join or die.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares?

[–]CaptainJackSorrow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My ex-wife did this. She said it was to keep a tie with her daughter. I never felt like she was totally committed as a result, and over time I felt it had more to do with keeping a bond to her father than to her daughter.



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