So tempted to talk, not act, plus more

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October 6, 2016

So: 39, Wife is homeschooling SAHM, kids 14,12,2. Saw the pill from afar for a year to two, it didn't make sense, googled "Red Pill Married" 2 months ago, I would say I swallowed it and am struggling to digest it. Old habits die hard. Read the sidebar pre-reqs, currently reading Iron John, Epectitus (dude those are slow) and rational male volume I. Should probably take another stab at NMMNG.

Wife has been cold/controlling for years. Her behavior seems very similar to this:

That is, we are religious, she sits on the couch a lot, scrolls through facebook, and complains. Overweight - fits in a size 14. She does cook and do laundry and takes care of the kids 100% - so much that I am uninvolved with the oldest, just starting to get re-involved in middle, and am essentially a babysitter for the youngest sometimes. I'll take her to the park after dinner, put her to bed, etc.

When I started here my wife would insult me frequently, but I stopped crying, whining, begging, and pleading. About a month ago, after I came back from a week out of the house (mistake, post history on that, still dealing with nuclear fallout, that incident explains why eldest doesn't want to be around me) she stopped with the tearing-down statements. Now she mostly criticizes what seem like legitimate mistakes, but she blows them up to comic proportions. I typically fog replies, "You're right, I didn't X" or negative assertion "that wasn't a good move of mine, was it?" which end the conversation.

So it seems like we're talking less, just because she isn't bothering to pick fights. Our few conversations are typically logistics.

How I got in this mess

I want to recognize that I screwed up by being a drunk captain. My wife took on all the responsibility for the family. By screwing up again and again she moved from reminding me I was a parent to (I could make the call), to making the call herself, to informing me of her decision, to not even bothering to tell me. NOW when I try to do something, she covertly sabotages it, and nothing gets done.

Oh, I was an increasingly passive bluepill loser for the past 18+ years of our marriage. I totally failed to lead. We spend maybe three to five weeknights of the first years of our marriage watching TV from 6-8PM. She wanted to do outdoor, athletic things and I maybe passively followed. I played video games and worked. I'm a successful consultant and provide for the family, but I didn't lead, at all. Or with the children. Or ...

Sex and physical affection is non-existant. She had a really rough time delivering baby #3, and after that I pretty much just changed diapers and put baby to sleep for a couple months, during which she routinely verbally abused me. I think that screwed up her perception of me and I'm still digging out.

Progress on my MAP

The first two months after swallowing the pill I've been reading, lifting, a little absent, not whining/crying. I work from home for myself, mostly piece-rate work, so I set my own hours, and tend to exercise during the business day or at night after youngest is asleep. I may have come off angry a couple of times. My attempts at AA and AM are lame - my SMV is low and they are poorly delivered. She sees the AA as mockery. My attempts at leading the family are (a) encouraging people to weigh themselves and get on the wii, (b) Painting a room each night after 2-year-old is asleep, (c) inviting people to the gym with me. Relatively weak, only the most modest of success.

Now: I'm 5'1", 175lbs, down from 201, lifting, cardio, running in 5Ks, 20% body fat. In the gym 3-5 times a week, 3 to lift plus some leg days, also doing cardio. Going out for breakfast with friends once or twice a week, poker night once a month, going to a football game next week, etc.

I've lost 5 inches off my waist since June, so I need to buy new clothes, which is running the 12 stages of dread in the wrong order. Over the past three months I've bought 2 adidas running pants, underarmor athletic shorts, 2 t-shirts, 3 fashionable t-shirts, and most recently, 2 sets of chinos and 2 shirts to wear it with.


I don't have hobbies that produce things of value yet. I literally didn't read the 12 stages of dred post until yesterday, don't know why. But it makes sense to me that hobbies that produce value to raise your SMV, then clothes once you've sort of earned a higher SMV. Otherwise you're a kid playing dressup, or too big for his britches, etc.

Which brings me to this post.

The latest episode

My wife is complaining about my life. I (the man) get to do whatever I want. Exercise for two and half hours at the Gym? I just do it. Fancy new clothes? I just buy them. She gets clothes used most of the time or shops for bargains. She wants to do a ten-minute exercise video and can't get time.

I suggest the gym has a kids room right outside the ellipticals so I could take the youngest on leg day -- which is sort of DEERy, I think. So now she complains that all she gets are leftover dregs and scraps.

I am really tempted, at this point, to say something like this:

"That's right. That is what you get. You get to control the family, make every decision about the kids, cut me out of their lives, deny me every form of affection and sex. I get to take care of myself. If you want to change that, let's change it."

However, I don't. Instead, I ask her ideas to improve it. She doesn't have any, she is exhausted. There may be some depression going on.

So I say well then, I'll have to think of ideas to improve it. And leave the room.

~20 minutes later, I have to go upstairs to tell her the construction guys are coming early, and she says some of the same things.

Instead of giving her a speech, or trying AM, I just walk over and give her a brief, gentle hug. Maybe two seconds. Then I walk downstairs again. I initiate the next conversation -- I would like to pick up the middle child from karate today.

I'm not sure if comfort test is the right word. I'll be totally tempted to tell her again about the tradeoff (the italics above) next time she is cranky. MRP dogma would say this is a mistake, I think. Interested in your thoughts.

Post Information
Title So tempted to talk, not act, plus more
Author logger1234
Upvotes 7
Comments 24
Date 06 October 2016 04:51 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
MAPdread gamesexual market valuecomfort testliftgamethe red pillthe blue pillNMMNG

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Keep your mouth shut dude, your frame is way to weak to be able to say shit like that, and by the time it's strong enough you won't have to say shit like that. Stop asking her for ideas or suggestions or to make plans. That's for you to do. And just so we're clear, don't ever say anything close to that shit in the italics, ever. Your wife is a bitch because you're a bitch, whining to her about it will only turn you into a bigger bitch.

Get over your wife, stop worrying about pissing her off and do whatever the fuck you want, as long as it improves you and your value. I've never heard of a woman leaving her man for becomming to fit, or more social or whatever.

Suggesting to take your kid to the play room during leg day isn't deering, it's you coming up with a plan to help you, and your family get fit. There's nothing wrong with it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"people who bitch are bitches. Don't be a bitch." is, I think, the reason not to say it, and what I came here to get answered. Thank you.

[–]ofthehighdesert6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'll take a swing since I am perhaps 5 or 6 months ahead of you in roughly the same situation. Any advice, however should be taken with a grain of salt since I am still a novice.

Besides wanting to be married to a guy who is fit and can handle her bullshit, from what you have written, she seems to be begging you to give her something of the life that she wants. Your wife doesn't want to be fat, living on second hand clothes working from one shitty diaper to the next. What's more, you don't want a wife that is like that either. So lead her. Help her and your whole family create life that doesn't suck. Take her shopping, let her buy some new clothes and try them on for you. When you are done with work, take all the kids to the park for awhile, spend time with them, play with them, not because she needs a break but because you need time to re-engage with your kids each day. Make being the kind of guy that takes care of your shit, part of your map. Be attractive, don't be unattractive. For a married guy that means creating the life you want for your family.

When I visualize what I want my family life and time at home to look like, I imagine a lot of laughing and joy and flirting with my wife. I create that with my frame. I don' take a lot of what my wife says seriously unless she is communicating rationally. The nagging and crankiness is an opportunity to bring her into my frame and get through things with a sense of humor and fun.

I also create the joy by having shit taken care of. I get the kids together and knock out cleaning the house in less than 45 minutes. Now with the house clean, and the bills in order, we can get to the fun shit like going swimming in the river and laughing about how cold it is, or blowing things up with my boys, or having tea with my little girl. Because shit is taken care of, I can flirt and fuck with my wife because she isn't carrying the weight of the family on her little shoulders. It's on mine, where it belongs.

So lead, take care of your shit, which includes your family.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great points. Own Your Shit. Yep

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

+1; upvote for a solid vision and understanding of frame.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jesus Christ it's logger1234 posting again.


So she gets used clothes and has no time....WHY? Unless she cannot do these things due to your failures then her not buying clothes or having time is HER PROBLEM. Don't try and solve her problems.


As for the italics, study the concept of frame and being an oak more. It doesn't seem like you get it.

[–]Alpha_Rising3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Your wife sounds like a miserable, depressed, controlling, abusive, fat bitch. At least, that's the impression you give when you talk about her. Is that how you see her? Honestly. You're not at church here. You don't have to wear a plastic smile and pretend like everything is just peachy. Answer honestly. Do you see your wife that way?

If so, do you even want to remain married to her? I cannot understand how you could ever want to remain married to a miserable, depressed, controlling, abusive, fat bitch.

I recommend opening your mind to the possibility of life without her. Develop true Outcome Independence. Be OK with the possibility that you may have to leave her miserable ass in the dust. Keep working on you.

Her whining about her clothes and not being able to work out is her own insecurity and refusal to take personal responsibility. If she really cared, if it was really important to her, you can be damn sure she could make time to work out and to buy herself some nice clothes. But she's a lazy bitch who'd rather sit on the couch surfing Facebook than taking care of her body and appearance. Her attempts to blame you for her poor figure and poor clothes are just her own failure to accept personal responsibility.

Don't worry about her bullshit, whining about how she can't work out. Yes she fucking can, if she actually really wants to. But she doesn't. She's content being a fat bitch because she thinks she's got you locked into an eternal marriage covenant; she thinks you're stuck with her no matter what and that you can't do anything about it. That's why she's verbally abusive. She thinks you can't go anywhere because you're sealed for eternity.

I used to be married to a fat Mormon bitch. I nexted her. Best decision of my life. I recommend you seriously consider it as well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I cannot understand how you could ever want to remain married to a miserable, depressed, controlling, abusive, fat bitch.

Women are a mirror to their man. I guarantee that if this were my girl, she wouldn't be a "miserable, depressed, controlling, abusive, fat bitch." because I wouldn't allow that.

OP's wife is this way because that is where he led her.

Same as your fat mormon bitch of a wife. You chose to marry her, you chose not to lead her, now you brag about leaving, "Best decision of my life."

We discuss pretty frequently that women are submission and men are dominant, when a wife submits and is led to the bullshit OP's wife is experiencing, why do you think she became angry?

[–]Sapphire_Jizz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I one-hundred-fucking-percent agree with this post.

Just why, OP?

What do you really want?

What are you afraid of?

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Her attempts to blame you for her poor figure and poor clothes are just her own failure to accept personal responsibility.

Or a guilt trip to reassert control and pull you back down into her swirling abyss of misery.

Regardless, /u/logger1234, life is all about choices... what we do and what we allow. Stop allowing yourself to get sucked into her frame of victimhood and misery. Keep telling yourself, "Not my monkey, not my circus".

[–]enfier2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It took you 18 years to dig this hole, it's going to take you a lot longer than 3 months to get yourself out. The good news is that you can stop worrying about passing every little shit test and just focus on improving yourself.

If you aren't successful, no one is going to want to follow your lead. Forget weighing the family, weigh yourself and make a chart to put on the wall to track your own weight. If it's obviously working well for you, the maybe she'll ask you to make a chart for her. Or maybe not, don't try to force it.

Some of your wife's complaints may actually be reasonable requests. The clothes one in particular - is she upset that you aren't following her plan or is she upset that she doesn't get clothes? Is there a legitimate problem with the budget (aka Are you putting money in your 401k, do you have credit card debt?) that you are just ignoring? The fact that she doesn't have a plan is a wide open door for you to do some fucking leadership and fix the fucking problem. Would it kill you to get her a Nordstroms gift card and watch the kids for an afternoon while she shops?

You don't need to bend over backwards and fix every complaint she has, but you do need to stop and ask yourself if she's got a point.

[–]Diff8881 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Women are a mirror to their man. I guarantee that if this were my girl, she wouldn't be a "miserable, depressed, controlling, abusive, fat bitch." because I wouldn't allow that."

Jesus dude. Can you stop patting yourself on the back every fucking post and comment. Christ. Changing your name from Training the Brain to The Family Alpha has gone straight to your head. But hey, you break out in song and randomly dance at the mall so it's all good.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My existential shit began when I was approaching 50 and started thinking "Is this it?". I built businesses with millions in sales, had hundreds of employees, traveled the world, rode my Harley, 12% body fat, 6'3" 225" and built like an NFL linebacker...

WTF happened to that guy? You're almost twice the age of TFA. Can you remember how cocksure and irrationally self-confident you were at 28-29 years of age? Let life take some wind out of his sails and maybe someone like you can be the more humble, wiser man and make a difference. It's easy to cheer for the undefeated fighter, but everyone loves a redemption story more.

I have a feeling you have more to give than lessons in humility.

[–]Diff888-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're right. The guy is floundering though and the "this wouldn't happen to me, I can fix any woman" rubbed me wrong. TFA puts way more time and effort into this than me deserves more than a drive by put down.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're fucked up dude. I've responded to several of your posts and you just don't fucking get it.

[–]Flathatter450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you are starting off good, doing all the right things. Like enfier said, you aren't going to fix this, or even see significant change in a couple of months, no way no how. Give yourself time, pursue excellence.

One thing I'll emphasize from personal experience, NEVER stop lifting. In the past year and few months, the one thing that has kept me focused and anchored is the visible and concrete results I have gotten from working out, particularly lifting. It diffuses anger, it burns off nervous energy, it helps me sleep. In every way, I feel. So. Much. Better. And in control. That's worth it's weight in gold in so many ways. If you already know this, mea culpa.

Yes, your sit sounds very similar to my own. To answer your question from your previous reply, no I am not an Adonis but I am a damn site better than what I was, and feedback I get from others only confirms what I see in the mirror.

Regarding clothes: just my opinion, but thrift stores supplied 90% of my new improved ward robe. I got high quality name brand shit for a song, some of them looked like they had never been worn, least ways not so you could tell. The money you save in that area could be used for other improvement activities. Maybe a spa massage, whatever.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


I could have been you.


there are tons of posts addressing issues you have, and symptoms you exhibit.

Dude I know you want it to be fair.. its not. Get over it.

Just... be done.

You remind me of my one friend who lives outside of Philly and works in Manhattan. Ugh.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Edit- Add

Did you ever think she is in prison from you allowing the homeschooling ? Ya, you are to blame for this. I have a friend that is an exec with a large insurance provider in the Midwest. His wife is miss control freak. Type A cunt. World class complaint pants. She says some shit to me and I tell my friend, either stop the home schooling and give her a break, or the sex dries up and your life is that of a providing roommate. He started crying on me.

He put his foot down, kids went to school and everyone was happier. He lead the changes. Kids are more social and she is happy with the breaks while they are at school

"That's right. That is what you get. You get to control the family, make every decision about the kids, cut me out of their lives, deny me every form of affection and sex. I get to take care of myself. If you want to change that, let's change it."

Why in the fuck do you keep going on about nothing ?

STFU, think before you say a thing to make sure it's attractive and LIFT, diet and kill the ego

"She doesn't have any, she is exhausted"

Can't get excited, can't have energy around a sap.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Should probably take another stab at NMMNG…...Wife has been cold/controlling for years.

Yes, you are right. Go back there and do the exercises. Add in WISNIFG. Work on these again, first. But give yourself some time to digest it and put them to practice. Then check back in with some progress and questions.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My attempts at AA and AM are lame

Well then don't try them. These are more advanced techniques, and newbies typically make things worse when they try them. Master STFU first

I think you're trying to do too much too soon. Stick with the levels of dread, one at a time… Slowly

And did I mention STFU yet?

She sees you improving, and it scares her. Improve anyway. Continue to lift and lose weight. Be the man you want to be and maybe she'll come along for the ride… Maybe she won't. Either way it won't matter Once you make the improvements

But I'm not sure if I mentioned STFU yet or not for the time being while you are improving

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"That's right. That is what you get. You get to control the family, make every decision about the kids, cut me out of their lives, deny me every form of affection and sex. I get to take care of myself. If you want to change that, let's change it."

Covert contract much? "Look at all the equality and fairness I display, and she doesn't reciprocate!"

You need to completely destroy everything you think you know. Stop thinking that your wife wants the same things you do - she doesn't. Everytime you post you get the same answers: you're not being a man. Are you ready to change yet?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When you left home a month ago (at her bidding so in her frame), you completely started over at Dread Level -1. You're only a month in still trying to get back to Level 1; slow down, RP Rambo, you have a loooong hard road ahead of you.

From your history, you're an unattractive, hopeless fuckup who is either so stupid or unengaged that you can't even be counted on to manage simple stuff like closing the damn window or turning off the AC, let alone taking any responsibility for your kids or adding any value other than a paycheck. She has given up on you. Is she depressed? Of course she's depressed; her hapless, worthless husband, who at least provided monetary resources to support his own kids, is suddenly acting even flakier and like he might start failing at that, too, or abandon the family. She's experiencing dread all right ... the dread of a concentration-camp inmate who is waiting for the axe to fall.

Look, you're blundering around all over the dread map sprinkling random bits of alpha on it and blindly pushing buttons without understanding them, desperately hoping that one of them will magically and suddenly fix your 15 years of fuckup.

Otherwise you're a kid playing dressup, or too big for his britches, etc.

This comment of yours is insightful, and exactly what you've been doing so far with everything RP. And until you add real value on a daily basis to your family, you'll continue to just be a kid playing dressup. Just. Stop. Now, go get /u/BluepillProfessor's book on the 12 steps of Dread and follow the program, one step at a time, systematically, thoughtfully, and deliberately. Start over. Don't skip steps. Don't rush ahead. It will take at least a year, probably much more, for you to unfuck your mess. You won't see any signs of positive response from your wife for at least six to eight months; stop looking for that validation. But while you're adding value to you, add value to your family. Every. single. day. Play hide-and-seek with your two-year-old daughter. Play a game with your 12-year-old, or do some small home repair or improvement with her, or bicycle. They're home-schooling; they've got time, and they need these enriching experiences. Do fun, interesting stuff with them, and start learning and practicing Amused Mastery and gentle, fun teasing and push/pull with your daughters; they'll be much easier nuts to crack than your wife. Work toward having at least two females in your household who find you fun and worthwhile to be around; you might be surprised at how that affects the opinions of the others.

You can do this, but it's going to take a very long time, and a whole lot of work. But a lot of that work should ultimately be very satisfying, such as having fun and great relationships with your daughters, and fixing things around your house, and being strong and fit. Stop dicking around looking for a quick fix, and get to work.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I have another thought for you, /u/logger1234. It seems like you're just sleepwalking through life, lost in your own thoughts (hence your wife's lack of presence complaint, the fact that you consider time spent with your own kids as just "kind of babysitting", forgetting to turn off the sprinkler and A/C, on /r/marriedredpill for months without reading the 12 steps of dread post, etc.) The most important thing you need to learn right now is how to get your head in the game of life; that is, to be present ... in your family, in MRP, in your life. You're going nowhere without this.

Let me suggest that you set yourself the goal of being your two-year-old daughter's favorite person. Nobody is more present than small children; to succeed, you'll have to learn to be fully present with her. Set aside an hour every day of Daddy Time with her, and apply all of your attention and effort to making that time the funnest and most exciting part of her day. Invent crazy games and play with her; at the playground you're the landshark who chases her and can get her when she's on the ground, but she's safe on the equipment. Watch her reactions and emotions carefully, and constantly monitor how far you have to circle away to tempt her down, how fast to move to chase her to maximize the thrill, what fraction of the time you catch her balances the excitement of the chase versus the frustration of losing for her. With every ounce of your attention, learn to watch and interact in the moment to play her emotions like an instrument, to bring her to fever excitement, to make her mad for a minute then to make her laugh, then a bit afraid, then wild with excitement again, and so on and make each Daddy Time a symphony of fun, with you the artist and conductor of the show.

If you can learn to "game" your daughter like this, you'll have learned to be present; you'll be the Dad she very much needs, and you'll be her superhero. Two-year-olds are relatively simple and fully present creatures, so this may be the easiest way for you to learn this missing prerequisite you need to make any progress in your life.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thank you. I think you've got something important here.

Thanks again.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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