I broke Tomassi's iron rules when I was Blue Pill.

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May 13, 2016

I broke probably all of Tomassi's iron rules when I was beta. One that sticks with me know is, she was my first and my dumb ass beta told her when we were dating. Her N count is higher. Iron rule 2 - never disclose. Ergo I have been in her frame for all of our marriage. I've given her all the security and she's given me all the dread. Interestingly enough, now that I'm losing weight, looking good, sexier, more confident, more unavailable, and fucking better than I have my whole life - she says, so how many girls have you at least dated? That'll make me feel better that maybe we're on more equal footing. Here's the subcommunication - you're hotter than me and have not have as many sexual experiences as me. I'm afraid you're going to cheat.

Like a chump though, I caved despite resisting. Edit: Detail for those that asked - I described the number of dates I went on and who I dated including people we both know. I immediately regretted it as soon as I said it, and I kept saying, why do you want to know? To which she said afterwards, see, that wasn't that bad. I don't know why you didn't want me to know.

Despite trying to establish my own frame, I'm still in hers. Why is it so hard to break and establish my own frame? Is this easier for those that have had many women? My gut says I need to number close to confirm to myself that I'm DHV. But that could also be my validation whore of a hamster. What have you other men (former white knights and cap'n saveaho's) done to get your own frame?

Edit: Thank you for the comments. This post was a post that came to me as I was reading rational male and I got to Tomassi's Iron Rules. It hit me so hard that I wondered how many other men also broke Tomassi's Iron Rules. For everything else in my life, I can work to get some measure of control and own. Career, fitness, health, money, home, etc. I know what I need to do, I know how to do it, and I know how to get my head in the game to get there. This one aspect of my life, the relational with my wife, has been a fucking bear to wrestle with. The more I read, the more I puke and get angry at myself for being what I was. I also understand where that anger comes from, and that I HAVE to forgive myself. I didn't know. I was conditioned, and frankly, I'm lucky as hell I ever found this place. The fact is, I forgive myself every day. And I am taking it slow. But I still live with my wife, and I still screw up. Despite my failures and lack of frame, my sex life has never been better, and I've never had more confidence than I do now.

And it's slowly learning to assert myself, my wants, and my needs. I'll give you a for instance: I had a toothache yesterday. Called up the dentist and went. Normal you say right? I RESISTED THE URGE TO IMMEDIATELY CALL MY WIFE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT MY PAIN AND TELL HER WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. In my head I kept repeating to myself - I am a man who takes care of his life and gets things done. This is MY life. So yeah. Maybe I'm just a fucking pussy (ode to whinemoreplease), and maybe I'm just beta ass bitch. But I don't want to be, and I'm putting in the work to get there. I'll know I am when I don't have to have the internal dialogue anymore to actually get what I want.

Post Information
Title I broke Tomassi's iron rules when I was Blue Pill.
Author What_is_real_anymore
Upvotes 10
Comments 21
Date 13 May 2016 01:45 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207430
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4j6dn5/i_broke_tomassis_iron_rules_when_i_was_blue_pill/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
DHVbetadread gameframehamsterwhite knightgamethe blue pillclosen count

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

There is a reason the two memes "all is fair in love and war" and "war is hell" are never seen as incongruent.

You do you; but if it were me I would retract the statement about N=1, and just leave it hanging out there as an unknown.

Why is it so hard to break and establish my own frame?

It is probably hard because you have not established a life outside of your wife. I try to make every decision now based solely on what I would do....full fucking stop period. I am honing the mindset of a single man with kids. The second reason is you have not established abundance mentality which is the keystone of an alpha mindset. So yes, absofuckinlutely number close.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Yep, working on all of that. Part of the MAP really. Spent a lot of time at work this week just figuring out and prioritizing my MAP. I don't think I really did that well. I appreciate the alpha mindset. I also know that I have no business even approaching that shit until I get to 10% BF. So for me, shut up, lift, read, and start executing my map.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you're going to downvote this, at least have the courtesy to respond with your critical comment.

[–]lionmenden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There's huge vote brigading here. I agree with you. If people disagree with you, say why. Otherwise ignore the score and focus on actual advice given.

[–]lionmenden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What if you're at 11% body fat? You're on a good track. Don't limit yourself too much by a single and relatively arbitrary criteria. This can hold you back.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why is it so hard to break and establish my own frame?

If "frame" means your strong value system that is unbreakable and if you never had this before, how could building it be anything but extremely hard?

Is this easier for those that have had many women?

Often it is because you already have the skills to implement Dread. If not, then you have to learn it in addition to all the other stuff.

My gut says I need to number close to confirm to myself that I'm DHV.

Do you guys see why I set up the 12 levels of Dread? It wasn't to set guys on a path to divorce! It was to slow them down on that path to divorce so the wife has a chance to catch up.

Billy Joel said it best: Slow down, you crazy child. Your so ambitious for juvenile but then if your so smart. Tell me why are you still so afraid? Where's the fire what's the hurry about? You better cool it off before you burn it out. You've got so much to do and only so many hours in a day.

TLDR: Vienna waits for you brah. Just slow down and keep heading in the right direction.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks BPP. I'll finish Rational Male, WISNIFG, and dive into 12 Stages of Dread. I have reasonable expectations though. This is a lifelong change. I'm not just going to flip a switch and become the man I want to be. I've got 36 years of significant cultural programming to overcome.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Like a chump though, I caved despite resisting. Despite trying to establish my own frame, I'm still in hers.

How? Details, please.

Why is it so hard to break and establish my own frame?

Why is it hard to diet? Biology, psychology, whatever. Some things are just hard. You just have to suck it up and do it, and when you fail do better next time.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I edited the details in the post above. Basically, I didn't STFU or change the subject. In reflecting about it, I think to myself what STFU might really be about. With children, the best tactic to get them to disengage from undesireable behavior is distraction. So perhaps that's an approach I can take with undesireable behavior with my wife, until I grow my balls enough to assert my desires.

Amen to sucking it up and doing it. That's what being a man's about ain't it?

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why is it so hard to break and establish my own frame?

Have read NMMNG? its how you start to do it. but mainly you stop caring about what she thinks about you.

You do you

Is this easier for those that have had many women?

No. Even well known PUAs have fallen to oneitis. Rollo makes this clear in The Rational Male.

What have you other men (former white knights and cap'n saveaho's) done to get your own frame?

I stopped caring about her thoughts about me. I did what I want, even if it made me uncomfortable. She can be happy, sad, angry...unless I caused direct pain I couldn't, at large, be effected.

This of course then leads you to the path of the oak where you must at times give these beta qualities in order to provide comfort and succor to your woman. It's the hard balance of MRP vs TRP.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, I have read NMMNG, and much of the other sidebar as well.
Here's a great conversation on You do you

I don't think we stop caring what our wives think about us. I don't think that's the point at all. IDGAF is about asserting ourselves and actually GAF about ourselves - and realizing that the shit we deal with from our spouses is because we DON'T actually assert ourselves. There's a fine line between stopping caring about our wives opinion of us and becoming a raging dickweed. Of course, I'm still unplugging so what do I know. I'll just STFU and read!

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

To whoever downvoted this, please give me a rationale behind your downvote. I don't really care about the downvote so much as I'm not learning from someone that has a different perspective.

[–]J_Incognito1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

A general comment about maintaining your frame - don't be afraid of confrontation (see WISNIFG). Your interests, your thoughts, your opinions matter and hers in no way trump yours.

My gut says I need to number close to confirm to myself that I'm DHV

That's insecurity talking. Find your strength and voice from within.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

WISNIFG is next after Rational Male. I've read NMMNG. And yeah. Insecurity - no shit.

[–]NevrEndr1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You need to NOT GIVE A FUCK

Donna Ana: Very well, my love. I will accept that I'm not the first if you will tell me, with the same... honesty, how many others there have been. Don Juan: Including you... there have been... exactly... one... thousand, five hundred and two.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That works well when you're working between women. After 13 years with the same woman who knows so much about you? That's a little trickier beast.

Absolutely if I had a new girl, I wouldn't spill anything. But this is also why MRP is TRP on hard mode. Hitting the reset button on the game means taking some heavy losses.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Buddy, it is time for you to not give a fuck. She/they/we are not really interested in the details.

My stock answer: More than 1 and less than 10. Thats it. That is all they get. The details don't matter, it is the delivery that matters.

You already get it that it is your weak frame that is holding you back. It takes time to build frame, don't rush it. Many mistakes will be made in your journey, but if you learn from it, it counts as a win.

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

See edits in original post for details :-P

Learning and fixing. You're right man. Long journey. I too am still a fat fuck, but I'm getting better.

[–]FearDearg2015Mod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok. Cool. A victim puke. You wrote it out, now read it back to yourself. Notice how circular it is. Notice how your words affirm your negative view of yourself. You can see that tone, right? Now just mentally release all of that, even if just for a second. One single second, just forgive yourself for all of that. Maybe it lasts for 5 seconds, and then your ego tries to tell you that you are delusional, that "it can't be that simple", and it tries to remind you of how much of a victim you are. You don't need to fight that, you just need to accept that it is your current situation, and then repeat the "one second of forgiveness" thing again. Maybe it barely lasts 2 seconds this time, because your ego senses the battle coming. But it's not a battle, you are just an observer of the insanity of your ego trying to claim a certain story as "reality". You forgive yourself again, you don't resist. And then ego comes back. And then you look at the clock, and only 20 seconds have passed, and yet somehow it feels like you have had a rebirth of sorts. And you feel really good about that. And then you realise the truth again: that those warm fuzzies are ALSO your ego, changing tactics to try to sneak past you. And you just accept that too. And over, and over, and over. Your ego is eating itself now. Since you are not resisting anything, the ego begins to slowly self destruct. And still, less than a minute of "real" time has passed. And then you remember all the other shit out in the "real" world. And maybe you start to really ask yourself "what is real". And slowly, the blinders start to come off a bit.

Get some perspective man: you have a life. You are sentient. You are consciousness. Why continue to fuel a dramatic story that plays itself out in your head?

[–]What_is_real_anymore[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks, this is a good reminder. See above for edits and my perspective. In terms of why continue to fuel a dramatic story? My male hamster sees I'm starting to starve it, and it's rebelling. But it's also a necessary step as I get through the reading. If Rational Male and the TRP side bar doesnt' make you flipping angry at yourself, you're either already RP, or you haven't swallowed the RP all the way. I recognize the journey. It's long, and hard. Thank God I lift.

[–]FearDearg2015Mod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Own your emotions, or they will own you

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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