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How do you handle sex/initiation, *while* you're improving (which means that 'you're not yet improved' -- which means "she doesn't want it from you.")

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February 29, 2016
16 upvotes

I think the big one that most new guys get hung (and drawn and quartered) on, is the seemingly contradictory aspect of certain bedrock principles of MRP.

It's said that MRP is a 'sexual strategy' and while it's not put forth as solely that, that absolutely features in the preponderance of discussion, and I'd say upwards of 90% of how/why new guys find their way, looking for help and answers to that specific question. How Can I Get My Wife To Fuck Me More? Without begging, without (undue) gaps in quantity or quality, and with (if they make it that far) more willingness, more sluttiness, more all the good stuff.

The short answer to that, as we all know, is Improve Thyself. All day, every day, in every way. Got it. Check.

But - as we also know, it takes a fucking looooooong time to get it all together; indeed, it never really ends if you're doing it right. Not just physically, but shit-test-knock-backs, full grasp and practice of both Game and Frame, the works. It is a very long road.

That's cool. In fact, that's fun.

But with regard to how and when along the journey that the sexual aspect comes into the equation -- what do you do when the increased quantity and quality lag behind the gains elsewhere?

No amount of kino, no amount of fun happy leader guy, no amount of proof elsewhere that things are getting much better (ie. Me) -- no amount of these things are translating into increased fucking.

So, the teaching goes - you can't expect it, even if you do everything right, so get the fuck over it. Take her down from that pedestal. Remain fully Independent of Outcome. Do not, I repeat, do not let that Butt appear Hurt.

Got a hard no tonight? Move on, who cares. Can't get any juices flowing no matter how much caressing and/or rubbing and/or slapping or anything else you've done from early in the day until late at night? Well, the problem is...

Let me beat you all to the punch:

"She's still not attracted to you;" "You still haven't lifted enough;" "You're still not at a place where she wants to fuck you."

Now, let me give you the benefit of the doubt, and say it's true. It shits me at work when newbies think they know more than me who's done it for a long time. So, OK, I'll accept it: she's still not attracted to me or some aspect of me that matters.

So If that's the case, while you're on the journey -- what do you do then about sex? About initiation? How often do you try it on?

Do you keep at it? If so -- and remember, she's not attracted to me -- then it just feels as if it ingrains her behaviour even more ("I didn't want him on me last night, here he is again, so I'm doubly against the idea -- tomorrow night, it will be triple!"). Seems very counter productive.

And yet, the advice is to Always Initiate and do all the pre-emptive ground work through the day that has to be done, just seems to shut her down further. "I'm so tired -- I just want to sleep -- CAN'T I BE TIRED AND GO TO SLEEP?" She starts talking about how tired she is, from the minute she fucking wakes up. So even down this path, the knock-backs keep coming.

So, short question to the long pre-amble: what do you do about sex while you're building? Keep at it? Or lay off it until you're there? And when are you "there" if prevailing advice is that "you're never there."

Because both paths look as if they're leading me back to where I started.


Post Information
Title How do you handle sex/initiation, *while* you're improving (which means that 'you're not yet improved' -- which means "she doesn't want it from you.")
Author ThrowTheEgg
Upvotes 16
Comments 18
Date 29 February 2016 11:16 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207637
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/489qo2/how_do_you_handle_sexinitiation_while_youre/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

This may be the best askMRP question I've seen yet. Very well thought out and very well presented.

Why do you initiate sex?

  1. Sex feels good. In which case, why are you limiting your ability to get pleasure to 1 cum dumpster?
  2. You want your wife and you want to show her.

Case 1 is easy. Go fuck other women. If it's only about sex, go get the sex.

Case 2 is more challenging. Most of the new guys here talk about how they want to have sex with their wives. What they don't mention is the covert contract that they have - the one where they want their wives to want them as well. So instead of initiating being an honest display of affection, attraction, and desire, it becomes a validation seeking exercise and a bullshit metric to gauge your wife's passion for you.

Now, hopefully the reader will see how bullshit the 2nd example is.

Here's where it gets challenging. Remember, most of you men have had this huge covert contract. Explicitly stated, you view that she, being your wife, owes you sex because marriage. In the past, this may have been true, now it's not. The way to counteract this is to recognize that 1) you should be bringing value to the table so that there's something worth being passionate about/fighting for, 2) she gets first shot at your affection, and 3) there's a competitive market.

If there's no market, the lowest bidder wins. If there is a market, highest bidder wins.

You might say "but /u/whinemoreplease, I just want to have sex with my own wife." to which I'll say "Good for you. But does she want to have sex with you? And if she doesn't, what steps are you going to take to give her a reason to fuck you?" At which point, if you're smart, you'll look up positive reinforcement and negative punishment, or human psychology 101.

[–]ThrowTheEgg[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This was a great response that I've been dwelling on since your reply, and it deserves a note of thanks and my own reaction.

What they don't mention is the covert contract that they have - the one where they want their wives to want them as well

This is where I am, if I strip away my own ego and bullshit. This pretty much nails it.

One way I have of dealing with the emotional aspect of these things I'm doing, is to write. I have no one but me, but that doesn't mean I don't find it helpful to talk it out, explore what I'm really thinking and feeling, so I'll 'talk'/write to myself and see if I get clarity.

And, I've just written - and only then realised what I'd written - and it jibes perfectly with what you've pointed out.

This is a little bit about sex, and a lot of bit about wanting to be wanted.

But because this is A) still new territory for me to learn and understand, and B) still ingrained behaviour borne of years of sleep-walking through life/marriage in so many ways .......

I struggle to grasp (emotionally if not rationally) why that is so.

Why it is 'wrong', ineffective, and detrimental to myself, that I shouldn't want and expect and take psychological pleasure from being validated - considered "valid" by my wife of many many years.

Why and how is that not a reasonable, human-DNA-level thing to desire and take pleasure from when it does occur (or if you could 'make' it occur)?

And, again, I know the answer in my head: You can't, because -- the universe. Physics. It's like wishing and hoping that for all eternity, everything just feels good and happens when and where and how I want, all the time, and etc etc.

OK. You can waste your one short life wishing that pigs flew. But, give it a nano-second's thought, and that's that. You wasted your one chance.

Your username is perfectly apt. My head gets it, but that's only half the battle. Because the fucking WHINING of my heart - feels - ego - whatever - is drowning out the inalterable, obvious physical facts that are staring me right in the fucking face.

Everyone says STFU in reference to communicating with their wife.

I'm coming around to thinking I need to STFU with myself, pronto.

Thanks for the help, it is appreciated. Time to wake up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You asked a great question. You deserved an effective answer.

Again, you give a good response that points to something I might be able to provide you insight with.

Here's the question for you - are you content and satisfied with your own existence?

I'd wager the answer is no. I bet that you are not fully in control of your own life and your own existence and most importantly your own happiness.

See, it's about coming to terms with the fact that we can only control so little of our existence, but for the little things we can control, we do have the ability to control them to the fullest.

Instead of "I am happy when my wife returns my affection", the mindset should be "I am happy when I show my wife my affection".

Instead of "I am happy when I win the lottery.", it becomes "I am happy when I purchase the ticket, knowing that I'm playing a game of chance."

What the aim here is is that you derive satisfaction from an action orientated mindset instead of an outcome orientated mindset.

My own example, when I knew I was satisfied with myself was, "I'm going to have a barbeque and grill because I want to. I'll invite some people as well." whereas six month or a year prior my mindset was "I hope people will show up to this barbeque I want to have." I do not control other people's behavior, but nor do I need their action to feel self satisfaction. If no one comes, maybe next time I have a barbeque when it's sunny or invite a different group of people - things which are all in the realm of my control.

If the wife doesn't return my affection, maybe I won't be so eager to give it in the future. I have explicitly told my wife that if she's not worrying about my happiness, I will be less inclined to worry about hers. That's not negotiating attraction, that's a simple fact based on my life philosophy. When you get to the point of controlling what you can, you can also tinker with small variables to see how they affect the result, so you're more likely to get the results you want.

Controlling the little things you can, doing the things you want, and deriving satisfaction from the things you can control, versus deriving satisfaction from outcomes which you can't control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What they don't mention is the covert contract that they have - the one where they want their wives to want them as well. So instead of initiating being an honest display of affection, attraction, and desire, it becomes a validation seeking exercise and a bullshit metric to gauge your wife's passion for you.

Neatly wrapped description. I don't know if this is universal, but I know I've done this.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

And when are you "there" if prevailing advice is that "you're never there."

The self-improvement part never stops. In terms of sex, if you're happy, then you're there.
 
Her libido and enthusiasm will increase with a more attractive partner - AWALT. That doesn't mean that your wife is capable of satisfying you.
 
This specific woman may have a libido that just isn't enough, maybe she's a bit selfish, maybe there's that particular thing that you like that she will never do with anyone. Accept that. That means, if you are doing as much as you are able to do to make your lives better, and your sex life with her still isn't satisfying, then you can choose to either be dissatisfied or have sex with someone else. By then you will be attractive enough that there will be other women who enjoy the things you do and can match or exceed your enthusiasm.
 
I initiate less now than I did before finding the red pill, but we are having sex 5x as often. It's hard to give advice on how often to initiate. The gaming and positive atmosphere are there most of the time. It's a natural transition to fooling around. Sex happens now or later. If either of you are angry about a perceived rejection, then you still have work to do. Reflect on why she or you are upset - it's not just because your dick didn't reach her vagina. Learn and adapt.

[–]ThrowTheEgg[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is good, practical advice.

The gaming and positive atmosphere are there most of the time. It's a natural transition to fooling around.

Makes sense to keep it up, and not withdraw until "I've improved." By virtue of taking action and starting the process, I have improved. So, as you say, sex will happen now, or later. Or not.

In any case, I'm still good.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's right. I've said this many times in other threads, but initiation isn't when you say, "Let's go to bed." Always be closing. You're flirting and teasing and having fun with your wife throughout the day. Don't take crap from her, but don't be an ass either. Shit tests are foreplay. It's all foreplay. Join her in the shower and just walk away when you're done. Give her a passionate kiss and then go off to do something else. Do it because it's fun, not because of a desperate need to get laid that very second. It takes the pressure off both of you. Eventually you'll notice that you've been getting laid more.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I initiate less now than I did before finding the red pill, but we are having sex 5x as often

This is often the case when you reach that turning point. There is a balance that tips. When your SMV seriously out paces her SMV she will initiate more often. Women may be AWALT but they for sure arent dumb. They know they have to fuck a high quality man to keep him around.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Always initiate, everyday.

When she shuts you down, instead of getting pouty and frustrated, let that spur you on to even greater efforts in self improvement. You cannot control her, but you can control you.

If she never comes around, after a sustained and substantial effort? Next.

[–]herp_a_merp4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

I set myself a deadline. X months. If I can't turn myself into someone who she wants to fuck after that time, it's probably hopeless and I'm moving on. (Life is short.)

This gave me true OI. I could initiate more after this and not care much about her rejections. Rejections simply were an indication that after X months we won't be together and I should keep working hard for myself. They were still frustrating at times but I turned that into energy to use at the gym and elsewhere.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't do it for her.

Go be fuckable, she just gets first crack. Otherwise this is just chore play

[–]MRPguy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some pussy down voted what is probably the best advice in this thread.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

This is closest I can get to a solution for myself. I hate the idea of divorce, but some days it is all that keeps me sane. The problem is, I've set this deadline numerous times in the past, but never stuck to it (all pre-RP though).

I know that my deadline is sometime this summer, but I need to pick a hard date. How about my anniversary? Another sexless anniversary and fuck it, I'm done.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I scheduled an reminder to my calendar 8 months from now (5 months until we are back in home country plus 3 months). Those last 3 month I want to escalate from D level 5 to final solution quickly so I do not lose momentum.

I will decide for Option 1 - filling divorce or Option 2 - an affairs at that point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I scheduled an reminder to my calendar 8 months from now (5 months until we are back in home country plus 3 months). Those last 3 month I want to escalate from D level 5 to final solution quickly so I do not lose momentum.

I will decide for Option 1 - filling divorce or Option 2 - an affairs at that point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

best time to plant a tree