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"Initiate anxiety" with my wife.

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January 4, 2016

I've VP'd my backstory here before under another throwaway account. Highlights - Sex stopped early after prego, married 1+ year, passive-aggressive butt hurt behavior on my end, newborn, name calling, found out she started texting an ex-bf (her new branch). Realized, I failed as a leader the entire time.


I righted the ship and we are no longer taking on water after hitting the iceberg. Readings, running MAP, lifting, dread the right way this time. Her behavior is much better and the physical stuff is slowly coming back. Both our behaviors are very consistent. Texting her 'branch' stopped for the most part. I came off months of actually disliking my wife as a person and really had no interest in sex with her other than maybe a grudge fuck. Now I'm a pussy when I say this but, I have anxiety if I try to initiate sex. It's to the point where I don't even want to try for fear of being shot down. Which means I need a lesson in OI.


Am I alone in this? Am I just being a pussy? If anyone else went through this how did you over come it?

Post Information
Title "Initiate anxiety" with my wife.
Author FUBP
Upvotes 7
Comments 16
Date 04 January 2016 07:57 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207768
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/3zgcvf/initiate_anxiety_with_my_wife/
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MAPbranch swinginglift

[–]anotherredletter4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Outcome independence is big, but one more 'mechanical' thing that helped me reestablish my initiation game was to stop using porn and jerking off, completely. 14 days in and I was so riled up that the prospect of forgoing a chance to get my rocks off seemed much worse than the prospect of getting rejected. It also helps in initiating hard and with true enthusiasm, which can be tough after a long drought.

[–]Redneck001Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're scared to try and fuck your wife because she may say "no?"

How many times is she DTF, but you won't initiate? How much sex are you missing out on?

Yes, you're being a pussy.

In your readings, did you come across the concept of frame?

You're scared to try and fuck a girl because she may say "no." I'm not picking on you, I'm just trying to understand your problem.

Do you have this problem in other areas of your life? This fear of risk?

[–]ch0dey4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Went through this two years ago after my wife had our second kid and it was led me to TRP in the first place. Felt the same way, after the bedroom dies for awhile, it's awkward to try and reboot things.

You've gotta try and initiate. If you get shot down or she tells you "maybe later", just walk away and go do something else. Don't say a fucking word, just leave the room.

If she is receptive, you've gotta go caveman and bang the shit out of her. Don't ask her if she's okay, or if something feels good, just go after it without reservation.

And get her to stop texting the ex.

[–]mrpnoob97181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

after the bedroom dies for awhile, it's awkward to try and reboot things.

Yeah, I felt the same way. After a BP dryspell, I wouldn't know what to do, overthink it, fear rejection.. and that awkwardness in your mind inevitably spills into your body language, and she can sense it.. and she fucking hates that. You must be confident and truly not GAF if you are turned down. Although I will admit this is easier said than done, especially if you start getting easily pissed early on, but you are trying to hide it.. she can sense that too.

[–]rocknrollchuck3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You've got to Assume the Sale. Practice your approach with a salesman's mindset of assuming the sale. A good salesman always goes into the deal assuming that the customer wants to buy what he is selling. The difference in his mindset creates a difference in his body language, the way he speaks and acts, and the other person picks up on it unconsciously.

Think of the last time you bought a car: was the salesman "pushy", "insistent", "not taking no for an answer" without actually saying it? How many times have you walked onto a car lot "just to look" and ended up leaving in a new car? Car salesmen go into their day with the mindset that every person they talk to wants to buy a car. You should have that same way of thinking. It will take some practice.

And if she says no that day, Assume the Sale every day until she says yes and you have sex. Sometimes once you get that first victory, the floodgates open and the fear goes away. I remember when I was a kid: it took me a few tries before I actually was able to jump off the high dive at the local swimming pool. The times I tried and failed, I had to climb back down and be embarrassed because everyone was looking at me. It was all in my head, because no one was actually making fun of me. But I eventually worked up the nerve to jump, and once I did it one time, it was no big deal. You can do this.

[–]strategos_autokratorRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Change your mindset. The goals for now isn't to get laid, but to practice initiating sex. Start with low goals, this week initiate once. If you do it, then give yourself a nice small price (buy a good beer or something). Next week, initiate twice. Ramp it up steadily somehow. If you do initiate the number of times, congratulations! You are showing Outcome Independence, so you are kickingass.

This sounds strange, but disconnecting the sex as the goal is a mental trick to reprogram your brain to have less anxiety. It is still hard, but reward yourself when you initiate, ignore if you have sex. This is all for now. Later, you can increase the intensity of initiating, the abruptness, etc.

Meanwhile, on the side, work on your Day Game, and approach women around, talk and flirt. This will help you take your wife out of the pedestal, which is why you are so anxious and why she rejects you.

Participate in Own Your Shit threads to keep yourself accountable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Compare her to the next 20 girls you meet. Tell me again why anxious?

Or is it a fear of rejection. I won't sugar coat it, embrace the anxiety, or else you'll find yourself out of the gene pool

[–]midlifedick2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone so far has zeroed in on some aspect of fear, but I think your problem is comfort.

You have stumbled on some strange version of stability and are finding comfort in that. Sorry buddy, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

Get back to work, this is not sustainable and eventually your hand will be forced. Do you have a fear of rejection? Yes. Do you have a fear of inadequacy if you are turned down? Yes. Do you have a fear of change? Yes.

Get out of this temporary comfort zone and get back to work. Results will come.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why is her pussy any different from other pussy??

Is it gold plated or something?

You are being a pussy.

but since this is ASKMRP,

Assume you are dead and Going into battle is the only way to survive. Assume she will say no... Try anyway.

Think of it as trying with any other pussy. Any female you met. Literally any other vagina. IF when she rejects you, just fucking be ok with it and try again because that is what a man does. Analyze how you fucked it up and try again in a different way.

Run a MINDFUL attraction plan.

STOP being a pussy and go fuck that pussy you have sitting at home.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Get over it once, and it'll be easier to to the next time.

We can't nut up for you.

You need to find that inner reserve on how to give less fucks if things don't go well. One thing she'll sense for sure is tentativeness or fear so you can be assured of some lmr.

Whatever puts you in a great mood do first. Or be in the progress of first. Make sex, in your head, an inevitability of how things will turn out.

Make out for a while, really just overpower your own inner demons with the physicality, and listen to your biology.

You miss 100% of the shots you never take.

[–]MRPguy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't tie your self worth to whether or not your wife has sex with you. Cut that cord right now.

IF you are really improving as you say you are, then there will come a time where she is foolish for saying "no," and that means that you get to laugh at it because it's funny. Really funny.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm a pussy when I say this but, I have anxiety if I try to initiate sex.

You are not alone but this is truly an awful dynamic and you need to stop it. It is fine to be anxious (only a fool feels no fear) but you need to confront it. REJECTION IS BETTER THAN REGRET!!

Perhaps you need to build an abundance mentality? Are you talking and day gaming pretty girls before you go home (Level 7). Once you flirt with a hot 20-something a few times, initiating with your wife will not be as difficult.

Beyond that, you need to understand how anti-seductive this attitude is for your wife. It is going to be very, very difficult for her to get turned on over a man who approaches her with fear in his eyes. Then you need to just do it. Don't think about it. Don't worry about rejection! Rejection is an opportunity to go to the gym!

Also, I would keylog her accounts....

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Happened to me before. Instead of initiating with her, initiate yourself. Sounds stupid but now almost whenever I start jerkin it at her, we end up fucking or bj.

First couple times she said things like: What are you doing, point that somewhere else, should I leave you two alone, etc.

A&A and a fearless attitude work beautifully.

"Should I leave you two alone?" Reply: "Would you?" "What are you doing?" Reply: "Makin a sandwich, wanna help?" "Point that somewhere else" Reply: "Show me where you want it" or "Show me your tits"

The replies felt crude at first but it works.

Anything stupid/funny worked for me and after 4 or 5 times she just started gettin turned on by it and once you know shes turned on, your fear goes away. You gotta really keep in mind that what she does doesn't matter, you are going to cum with or without her help.

[–]FearDearg2015Mod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If she says no, it's because you are doing something wrong. It could literally be anything. Any combination of things that you technically have control over, but more than likely will never have completely under your control. I mean, if for whatever reason she is absolutely against the idea of sex right now, and would absolutely give you a hard no if you initiate, then technically you are doing something wrong by initiating. However, these are all technicalities. Your technique will improve with time, and you'll start to feel more in the groove. It takes 10,000 to master something. That means it's way more than likely that you'll never actually master initiating with your wife, or any woman. You are not gonna be perfect every time, the numbers are just against you in this. So where does that leave you? Well, it depends on what you wanna do and how you wanna approach it. You could go all blue pill (again) and try to satisfy her every whim, try to make everything perfect, brew up the perfect storm, line up all the planets, and then tip toe around hoping not to pass her off and ruin your chances of sex. Or, you could just accept that there are a tonne of things outside your control, and even the ones that you technically could control are just on the list of things that you know are not really what she wants, or are not things you wanna do. If you'd like to have sex with her, then initiate. If she gives you a hard no, then you back off and continue with your life undamaged. Hard no's are just a fact of life. You know the difference between a hard no and a soft no, right? If not, racking up a count of initiations is the best way to learn. If she seems to be rejecting you, just deal with that. Treat it like a game. Tease her about it. (assuming you want sex from her).

Sometimes I don't feel up for fucking her. Too tired or whatever. I try to initiate anyway, and stop after a soft no, with no real butt hurt because I really didn't want it anyway. I don't think my wife has any conscious understanding of the difference between her soft no's and her hard no's so I get to demonstrate how easily I can walk away from a rejection. I usually just give her a peck goodnight and then go to sleep then, which is what I was planning to do anyway, but it gives her something to hamster about.

[–]FUBP[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok so I go to kiss her and she kisses me back with her shitty half second peck and she basically pulls a Heisman with her arm. I let her know it's counter intuitive to kissing me. She tells me she wants to take things slow. I remind her we're married. She reminds me we're on the verge of divorce. I say ok it's good to know where we're at. She tells me things have been good so don't back slide. I tell her I'm going watch tv. Oh well I got butt hurt. Will try again tomorrow. Edit: let me clarify it was a good night kiss and she was nose deep in her phone

[–]IASGame2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Take my advice with lots of salt as you can check from my post history I'm no expert.

You are talking too much.

Telling her pushing you away is counterintuitive and reminding her about the marriage seems like negotiating desire. Try wrestling her (without hurting her) if she pushes you away, but stop if she gives you a hard no.

You also didn't need "It's good to know where we're at" nor "I'm going to watch tv". Just go and do something else, she didn't earn your justification to her. You can probably do better than just go and watch TV.

It is much easier to spot the mistakes in other reports than when I'm doing them, I know this stuff is hard. Will get easier with experience.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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