I hate that the dread game works. Can you have a meaningful relationship without these types of games?

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T12:27:50+00:00

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XCowboyLowkesx · 2014-09-26T04:43:22+00:00

My parents have been married for 30 years. Never once have I heard my dad call my mom a name, yell at her, or even use backhanded insult full comments. They have had a lovely marriage viewing it from my perspective growing up. I can only remember maybe three or four major fights they got into and it only lasted less than a night.

My dad is a fucking man. Canadian lumberjack that was the oldest of five boys. His dad was an abusive drunk who did unspeakable things to him and his family, so traumatic that he's never talked to me about it at all. Him or either of his brothers. The only thing he's ever told me was that when his brothers messed up grandpa would take it out on him. He sucked it up and raised me and my brother and kept my mother in check this whole time.

This being said. My mother shit tests him constantly. And my dad passes these things so quick. And HARD. sometimes with silence. Sometimes with laughter. When I found TRP I quickly realized I had seen my dad holding frame his whole life.

So yes. Always you will need to play these games in a LTR.

itsarusko · 2014-09-26T06:58:26+00:00

Intentional Dread Game is newbie shit. I haven't used dread in a long time with my girl and yet she totally worships me. How? Implied dread game. My SMV is souring, good job, good social life. I don't have to do shit like "Oh Lucy flirted with me". No, she knows that since my SMV is so hot, any girl I talk to will be into me. Implied dread game. Nothing to do, nothing wrong with it.

[deleted] · Fri Sep 26 4:48:09 2014 UTC

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4io8 · 2014-09-26T11:06:24+00:00

Lower your expectations of relationships. You are simply going to get less out of it than what you believed growing up.

Find other things in your life to fill that place in your life that you had set aside for the women you were going to share it with. You can still have a happy life long marriage. But you thought that was going to complete you, that this is what your life was about. Now you realise that was niver going to work. Create a life that is something worthwhile whether the women is in it or not.

Growing up requires learning that the fairy tales were never real.

[deleted] · Fri Sep 26 5:02:41 2014 UTC

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[deleted] · 2014-09-26T12:22:50+00:00

Let go of your BP dogma:

WHY do you hate dread game? Because YOU wouldn't like to be treated this way?

Well stop using your amazing man logic and realize that women operate on A WHOLE nother level, meaning that there is give/take within the relationship for BOTH parties and that what works for one will NOT work for the other, i.e look at it from another perspective: A woman is much more likely to forgive a physical affair than an emotional one Exact opposite is true for men

So using egalitarian type logic is clearly not going to work, especially seeing as women are allowed to behave the EXACT opposite way of men in relationships; weak/whiny/vulnerable and shy and this doesn't harm them in the least. So why would you knowing all of this be opposed to running some dread game to show your value?

Now you may not need to run as much with different girls, BUT you should always let them know who's boss. Don't let a BP past hold you back and still make you feel like a "bad guy" for doing what is necessary, do women feel like bitches for shit testing guys?

zezikk · 2014-09-26T13:44:43+00:00

This quote I read at the end of the latest rational male article sums it up nicely:

You can cease to direct your part in this performance, but until you die you cannot exit the game

source: http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/23/the-burden-of-performance/

redpilltom · 2014-09-26T17:44:48+00:00

Wanting a relationship without games is like wanting a job without work.

UEMcGill · 2014-09-26T15:25:24+00:00

It's not a game. In marriage, your woman looks to you to be the strongest most powerful man in her life.

Read III and XVI again!

Dread says to her, "I'm focused on my purpose to the point I will walk away from you because you are interfering"

She only respects a man that respects himself.

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T11:38:24+00:00

http://therationalmale.com/2013/05/13/soft-dread/

Dread game doesn't need to be over the top, most of the time she just needs a reminder that you're still attractive, and she knows this because other women think you're attractive.

vandaalen · 2014-09-26T11:55:17+00:00

Don't think of it as playing games, but another different form of communication.

You might,know that women prefere and mostly use covert communication opposed to men, like you, who mainly ise overt communication.

Think of it as your way of communicating with a female and making sure that she understands you.

This is also a demonstration of the fact that action speaks louder than words.

It should, and will if you practice, also become something you do naturally and nothing you have to think about. You want to reward good behaviour and to punish bad behaviour. Withdrawing attention and maybe even directing to somebody else is the best possible punishment since women crave (alpha) attention.

You will have to come to terms with the fact that there is no place nor time where you can rest and lean back if you are a man.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-26T12:30:22+00:00

I would have made a comment about the usefulness of dread game and why it doesn't have to feel like a bad thing, but after reading your post, my impression is more that this woman is toxic and you should really cut the knot with her.

A friend of mine also had a kinda-FWB relationship with a woman who strung him along and every single fucking time when it looked as if he was distancing herself from her, she came running and roped him back in with promises of how "things would be different from now on", only to freeze him out again once she had what she wanted (A&V from him). Don't make the same mistakes he has made.

RedPillDad · 2014-09-26T12:36:24+00:00

So I have this long-term, on & off FWB, relationship with an ex of mine. I've always wanted to move on to a more serious relationship with her because I believed that we had something special. Every time I bring it up it's always the "I love you but..." or "I don't want to ruin a good thing".

You think you're in a relationship? You're her Beta orbiter and she's happy to keep it that way. All that flowers and shit? Evidence of a princess-worshiping non-alpha.

You're doing it wrong. Walk away and start over, because she will never reassign you to sex-worthy status.

RedPillSafe · 2014-09-26T13:51:55+00:00

Can you own a dog and never discipline it?

kick6 · 2014-09-26T14:26:15+00:00

They're only "games" to you because you haven't been trained to play them. Because you believed the lie of women's true nature.

These aren't games, they are the rules of intersexual relationships. So no...you can't have intersexual relationships without this stuff. You can specifically avoid directly "playing" the dread card if you are a man other women want to fuck. You don't have to actively flirt with other women if it's obvious they would fuck you to your SO.

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T16:37:51+00:00

If you hate it, that means you haven't fully accepted the nature of women. I used to feel the same way you did. Give it time, and double your daily dose of red pill.

barzerobar · 2014-09-26T16:48:12+00:00

The game doesn't stop until you're dead. Plate. GF. LTR. Wife.

It doesn't end.

Only you can define what it means to have a "meaningful relationship" and find fulfillment from within.

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T18:34:12+00:00

Dread game doesn't have to be playing games. It's just improving yourself to the point where she's afraid she can lose you. While you don't do it for this cause you do it for your own good and to always be pushing your limits and how far you can improve as a man.

BluepillProfessor · 2014-09-26T16:23:59+00:00

The clue to the answer is hidden in your comment.

the less attractive a female sees herself, I've noticed a lot less "games" or manipulation in the relationship.

It is NOT how the female sees herself- it is how YOU see her. With the less attractive woman you are not as attached. You are able to pull away. She responds accordingly with greater attraction. With the more attractive woman you ARE attached. You develop oneitis and she responds with disgust and pulls away.

Read The Rational Male and focus on ABUNDANCE. That is the key. When YOU know you could do better it shows in every action, every word. When YOU don't think you can do better that shows as well.

Relationships with a high value man don't often require Dread "Game" because the high value man incorporates "Dread" into his everyday life. He is busy. He talks to women. He is fearless. He is attractive. HE HAS OTHER OPTIONS. None of it is a "game" it is the product of a good life.

slcjosh · 2014-09-26T06:56:32+00:00

It's not a game. It's real life. If you're only real concern is yourself, everything else falls into place.

Diabolo_Advocato · 2014-09-26T12:37:56+00:00

There are a lot of comments flying all over the place, but take a step back and look at this topic with a "birds-eye view" if you will.

TL;DR Yes those women exist, but they are the exception, not the rule. Expect by the rule, not the exception.

Ask the bigger question,

Why do women shit test in the first place? To see if you are worthy of being with them. There is no getting around this fact.

Why does dread game work? It puts the ball in her court to decide if you are worthy. This is an uncomfortable position to be in because very few people like being the "bad guy." If she breaks up with you over literally just talking to another woman, she knows she will be seen as the crazy over jealous girlfriend, instead she does the next most logical thing - she peacocks for you.

Knowing this, you have to ask yourself "Are there women that don't shit test?" The answer is Yes. Absolutely. Here is the kicker, they are the exception, not the rule (watch "He's just not into you" and pay attention to Gigi's transition from bluepill girl to redpill woman).

The attractive women have a barrage of equal or better looking men, compared to you, hitting on them. So she is much more likely to shit test to see if you are worth staying with.

You pointed out yourself that less attractive women play less games, that's because they are not comparing you (or decided you are the best option) to all the other guys around her. That means she is doing whatever possible to keep you around. It is in her best interest to not be critical of you less you decide her bullshit isn't worth staying. While games are less likely with these women, it's important to note 97% is less then 99%.

Anecdote, my gf is no super model or anything, but VERY rarely shit tests me (maybe twice in our year long relationship). The women I met before her all shit tested me as early as date one. I had to wade through a sea of shit before I caught a break.

There are exceptions out there, but don't expect them.

_wolfgang_ · 2014-09-26T10:51:20+00:00

To me the best way to think of relationships is in a father/daughter dynamic or as is mentioned here frequently a captain/first-mate dynamic. It sounds like you have a blue pill ideal of what relationships should be like which is something we all yearn for but reluctantly accept can never be. It is best to abandon this ideal and accept that women will always test you. Treat them as if they are your daughter and they will love you, but perhaps not in the way you want.

SmallEyesRoughSkin · 2014-09-26T12:04:33+00:00

In movies it looks like some people manage to have a good relationship with things separately, like with money separately from lifestyle, separate from family separate from sex etc.

prodigyx · 2014-09-26T19:58:10+00:00

Hypergamy will always exist. It is the "dread game" that women use. Except they don't play it as a game. When they see something better, they will upgrade. That is why men need to remain vigilant in self-improvement, as soon as you start to slip up, she will be gone. RP men understand and have internalized this concept. Women do not understand the reverse inherently, and that is why we need to use dread game.

Just as we know she will leave for something better, she needs to know we will leave for something better. Dread game reminds her of this. Even if we have no intention of leaving, she needs to think we will because she needs boundaries with consequences. A woman who knows her man has nowhere to go...she has no boundaries, she will run amok, she will not be happy, and she will find a man that will set boundaries with consequences.

So to answer your question, no it is not really possible to have a relationship without these games. And they aren't really games, they are the natural order of things between a man and a women. The only relationships that could possibly exist without these games are when a man is dating a woman significantly below his SMV. This woman knows that there is no possible way she will do any better than him and all his options are much better than she is, so it is so obvious that he could leave her at any moment for something better that he doesn't need to use dread game because it is already implied by the huge disparity in SMV.

Imagine the top 1% of men. They don't need to use dread game because it is so blatantly obvious that they could have any woman they wanted.

Rollo-Tomassi · 2014-09-26T20:13:53+00:00

@OP, bear in mind that 'dread' exists whether you actively leverage it in your relationship or not.

There is active Dread Game: http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/27/dread-games/

and there is passive dread that you don't motivate, but nonetheless will be benefitted by: http://therationalmale.com/2013/05/13/soft-dread/

Now, the reason you 'hate' that dread works is because it's a red pill truth that contradicts the blue pill social paradigm you were raised with and you're still clinging to. You know red pill truth, but you want it to fit into your old way of thinking – it wont.

There's nothing wrong with dread, what's wrong is that you've been conditioned to believe that it shouldn't be effective in an equalist-fantasy social order.

Gradutedskillender · 2014-09-27T00:08:24+00:00

I've played these games forever. Then I met my fiance. He is a man and knows what he wants, and no games are required. It's great.

favours_of_the_moon · 2014-09-27T00:33:43+00:00

What I've been doing lately is just staying aloof.

If a bitch wants to get through my wall, then drop the bullshit. I don't need her or her headaches. Work for it bitch. Work for it by not being a cunt.

[deleted] · 2014-10-13T05:33:49+00:00

Well you dont need to play it like how you think. You just change yourself into a serious and more down to earth type guy. No bullshit. What. So. Ever. You just don't put up with it. You also don't get mad either. In fact, you never get mad. You do what you want to do, but be respectful and polite about it. If she doesn't like that, then that is her problem. But once she is done being mad, she will respect you more and love you more for being a man.

You do things that need to be done and are reliable. You lead, simply because you are decisive. You are determined at everything that you do. You have a fire in you that drives you to become who you want to be and to your passion. And remember: No bullshit. You don't tolerate it at all. Almost punish her for it (subtly of course) and you don't EVER get mad. Ever.

SeekingTheWay · 2014-10-17T13:51:09+00:00

Sadly this never goes away. Interestingly enough, the less attractive a female sees herself, I've noticed a lot less "games" or manipulation in the relationship.

This resonated with me very strongly. My last relationship crashed because I pulled my ex from that self-despect shit she had after her last bf. She started to shine after few months, the attraction between us improved, but then she started to attrack other guys as well, one of which ultimately lead her to break up with me for him.

bangwhimper · 2014-09-26T14:47:58+00:00

"Can you have a meaningful relationship without these types of games?"

Yes you can -- most of the people I know in relationships (including myself) have meaningful relationships without any of the red pill's ideologies or strategies.

My dad's not "Red Pill", though he does think in behave in ways that are very similar to what this sub espouses.

He's also a lying cheating bastard who threw his entire fucking family away so he could fuck a 23-year-old girl. But hey, priorities right? At least he got laid ~*

Yes, it's all anecdotal, it doesn't "disprove" the red pill -- but it does prove that meaningful non-red pill relationships exist.

Title	I hate that the dread game works. Can you have a meaningful relationship without these types of games?
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	38
Comments	65
Date	September 26, 2014 4:03 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2hhy8b/i_hate_that_the_dread_game_works_can_you_have_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/i-hate-that-the-dread-game-works-can-you-have-a.21808 https://theredarchive.com/post/21808