Navigating my shit versus her shit.

InChargeMan · 2019-02-19T18:59:22+00:00

Don't negotiate with terrorists.
Your boundaries are only as valuable to others as you make them to yourself. A boundary undefended is not a boundary.
Just like with children, women need to clearly understand your limits. This is why the shit test exists, just like children, to see where the real limits are. Kids don't thrive in uncertainty, and neither does a woman. Your troubles are defined by this circular logic: "A woman can't respect a man that lets some woman push him around." It's fucked up, but true.
If you don't take yourself seriously, nobody else will. Maybe you tell her "If you say something like that to me again we're through." Then she does. What will you do? She, you, and all of us know that you aren't going to do shit. Fix that.

It sounds to me like you have been doing a very poor job enforcing boundaries. The problem is that all that bad history dug a mighty hole you have to dig out of. This can take a long time or you can do what I did (YMMV) and go loud and fast. To do this you need to get your head in the right place first, organize within yourself what is a want or a need regarding your relationship with her, then sit her down to have an OVERT conversation to explain the new world order. Relationship 1.0 is dead and gone, relationship 2.0 is now here. For this to work, you need to be 100% committed. Once you have decided what your wants and needs from this relationship are, you have removed emotion and opportunity for manipulation from the equation. The ball is in her court, adapt or perish, doesn't make a difference to you. True OI. Once you have it, you see through the code of the matrix, and everything else falls into place. Keep in mind, this is not something you can do half-way. If you are 1% uncommitted it fails.

mrp_awakening · 2019-02-19T19:00:42+00:00

There's a lot of her's and she's in that long DEER of a post. You need to fix your frame.

Be the man you want to be. Don't explain it. Don't be apologetic about it. You sound like you're being reactive. Stop it. For example:

I try to make it a point to look at what I'm doing and see if I need to correct my behavior before I confront her with something.

Wrong! Quit trying to look at your behavior through her lens.

resolutions316 · 2019-02-19T19:45:27+00:00

You need options.

Everything in this post says, “I have no better option.”

Get a better option, and suddenly “holding frame” will be a lot easier.

It’s not about her. It never is. It’s about us - what we settle for, and what we give up on.

helaughsinhidden · 2019-02-19T19:09:54+00:00

I also try to operate in the kind of frame in which I get the outcome I want in a way that benefits everyone involved (Ecology Frame)

Give less fucks

Contempt is her go to ....blah blah... I seem to be taking the bait.

Give less fucks

I try not to be a victim nor do I try to make her the enemy.

This is a good start, try to see her always as a large child

I can see both the need to establish boundaries

Boundaries mean nothing, frame means everything. Acta Non Verba

But if I'm not leading and being emotionally reliable, then I want to know.

They won't tell you but her behavior will change. Give it some time. Also, don't look to her for your validation anymore, decide what your mission is and do it. In order for her to "follow" you must "lead". No one can call the leader where to go, otherwise he instantly becomes a follower.

I've read the side bar. Read some of it twice.

Have you read Rational Male or Married Man's Sex Life Primer?

ishouldhaveacigar · 2019-02-19T21:29:54+00:00

When she goes into the revisionist history lesson you have to remind yourself that that person she is talking about no longer exists. Hell, you shouldnt be happy with that guy either. He got you into this mess.

Compartmentalizing the past you, can go a long ways in ensuring the current you isnt running down the same old paths hoping for a different outcome.

simbarlion · 2019-02-19T22:21:17+00:00

Every time a fight starts, go out.

Even if you win, you lose.

Acta non verba.

Every time.

BobbyPeru · 2019-02-20T04:29:25+00:00

Ok, you are getting opinions on opposing sides. For example, one says call her out on everything, and another says “give less fucks.”

I tend to side with give less fucks. Choose your battles. If you call her out on everything, you are living in her frame. I tried that long ago - it doesn’t work. Amused mastery and A&A work well unless she is PMSing... then, stfu and remove your presence. This is my experience... use it.

But, there is no substitute for a strong frame, which you don’t have yet.

[deleted] · 2019-02-19T21:10:42+00:00

"How do I determine what's my shit versus what's her shit?"

You don't. That's getting in the weeds of mental masturbation...and a good way to keep the garbage flowing towards you.

Own that everything is your shit.

She has no faults... just damage and reaction. Either that someone else or you inflicted (hint: recent beta or rambo damage is yours). This isn't to even assign guilt. I mean , if it helps you get off your ass to do other things...great, but really it's just things to work around or improve in you.

Conceptualize that your "shit" is how you deal with anything and everything.

Also, if it helps, they will never see their or your behavior as anything other than your (traditional psychological sense of the word) shit. You have to sort out what areas of improvement YOU need... and a lot of times that can just be how you deal with tests. Here's a fun thought experiment with that...how many beta arguments did you have where you APPEALED that you both have issues and need to meet in the middle , she agrees and 3 hours later at the end who is still holding the bag of "shit to fix about myself"?

Nothing to be mad at, it's just how it is. And they weren't even wrong. You fix you and one way or another you'll eventually be with someone who has miraculously fixed their own damage.

You may need to disengage for a while in order to mentally shore up. Monk mode. Sounds like you're too deep in the thick of it. While I like the idea others have put out about your boundary problems ... you do have issues and as such verbalizing them wont demonstrate any level of commitment from you. Just whining.

discussing things calmly, stating my case and walking away

Discussing what? Already in a gripe? it's past it no matter how calm you remain. You're better with STATING A FACT and walking away but a case? She's no judge. Not even legal counsel. Say how it is (or say nothing if there's nothing to be said). STFU.

Decide how you will respond to shit shows...make better but still simple game plans you can stick to and then follow through with. Even if it's like you've skipped to the walking away part and relocating to a different area of the house. THEN have steps PAST (more contingencies) that you can go through and don't second guess, follow it like someone else handed you YOUR rules. Don't even vary. The more repetitive the less you'll seem malleable. Even with simple phrases "It's unfortunate you see it that way."

And this planning is overkill at the moment but what you need when you don't react properly NATURALLY. Which is what you will be building into muscle memory. You're increasing your boundary-fu, only way to do that is with sparring and repetition.

O.I. stop rewarding with your time...even if it's a bad time: they don't care. You're still there to fend off the bears whether they're nice to you or sniping at you.

Reach180 · 2019-02-19T22:53:11+00:00

However, in my attempts to do, she brings up shit about me and says I get defensive about it.

Seems you haven't actually learned how to pass shit tests. You're still deferring to her judgement. If you feel the need to be defensive, you defer to her judgement too much.

Passing shit tests isn't about staying calm. It's about not accepting her premise.

But if I'm not leading and being emotionally reliable, then I want to know.

This sentence gives the whole thing away. The idea that there's some authority there to tell you whether you are leading means you aren't actually the leader.

I thought there was a sidebar post about leading without permission, but I don't see it....maybe someone will know what I'm talking about.

NoCoast82 · 2019-02-20T02:40:39+00:00

How do I determine what's my shirt versus what's her shit

Straight from NMMNG, decide what is right and do it instead of guessing what everyone else would think is right.

You are right that this about confidence and frame, you dont have enough confidence in your own definition of what's right and you are all up in her frame trying to find the right choice.

BurnedRemains · 2019-02-19T20:03:36+00:00

"On the flip-side, I also understand that no matter how much I own my shit, she is not without fault, too. I try to make it a point to look at what I'm doing and see if I need to correct my behavior before I confront her with something. In other words, I try not to be a victim nor do I try to make her the enemy."

Shit man. This was a needed read for me. I've been like this for the last week. Letting myself be the victim.

FereallyRed · 2019-02-20T03:01:25+00:00

STFU. Verbal Intercourse is Optional.

The_Litz · 2019-02-19T18:11:35+00:00

Are you saying she has responded upto a point and is not responding any further?

OR

You have improved to a point and cannot improve any further?

A sort of impasse?

screechhater · 2019-02-19T23:14:51+00:00

Too many fucks given about her, books and bulllshit

man_in_the_world · 2019-02-20T04:37:41+00:00

Clearly, I need to establish boundaries with her dirty fighting.

The only boundary you need here is that you don't fight / negotiate / discuss with your wife when she fights dirty.

However, in my attempts to do, she brings up shit about me and says I get defensive about it. All while getting defensive and deflecting my boundaries I'm attempting to establish.

These can't happen with the suggested boundary.

BirdManBrrrr · 2019-02-20T15:34:32+00:00

WISNIFG is your friend.

You engage when you should fog/negative assert; think of the exact moment when you’d get defensive and that’s when you should start fogging and force her to “fight the fog” so to speak.

If she escalates and continues to be a cunt calmly disengage. You know her playbook and you know it’s a test yet you still give all the fucks about her feels; shift your mindset and use the tools to better manage the situation.

[deleted] · 2019-02-20T16:02:42+00:00

I think you may have missed some of the important pillars of RP;

Haven't set boundaries for yourself (Or maybe you have but your leadership is weak)

Haven't developed frame (you seem to be shocked by her digging up skeletons instead of responding with "thats the old me, hes gone" or just laughing it off)

Haven't learnt that arguing and DEERing gets you nothing of benefit

MrChad_Thundercock · 2019-02-19T19:11:55+00:00

“I've already written to much garbage,”

Yes, you have... and you sound like a woman.

Get out your head. Your hamster is running wild.

JameisBong · 2019-02-20T08:01:33+00:00

Ecology frame sounds like something some soy boy cuck would say. She enters your frame, you don't share it. I'm still beta in many ways, but frame isn't one of them.

gameoflibidos · 2019-02-22T20:38:51+00:00

Everything that comes out of a womans mouth when she's upset with you is emotional nonsense. (unless you actually fucked up somehow) ... But repeat that to yourself every time she is trying to engage you in an argument.

Don't engage, dont respond, leave, ignore, change subject completely without acknowledging anything shes saying. Never raise your voice.

Redpillbrigade17 · 2019-02-19T18:06:47+00:00

Your standards (or lack thereof), is the problem. You start by saying your wife is impressive? How the fuck do you say that when she treats you like shit ? In what way is she impressive??

If you’ve been at this for 2 years, you’re either doing it wrong, or you didn’t quite get it to begin with.

Title	Navigating my shit versus her shit.
Author	ishouldhaveacigar
Upvotes	7
Comments	66
Date	19 February 2019 05:58 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	askMRP
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/219057
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/asd91e/navigating_my_shit_versus_her_shit/