LTR Giving me the ultimatum

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February 28, 2019
90 upvotes

i'm 28. LTR just turned 25. Its been causing a little existential crisis with her. It's finally setting in for her that she is aging and on the decline potentially.

We've dated for 2 years. She finally just flat out told me, either we eventually get married, or end this relationship now.

She's a good girl, I do love her. But marriage is..... well, marriage. Not sure what to do. Don't want to lock myself down forever, but I also don't want to lose a good girl whom I love


Post Information
Title LTR Giving me the ultimatum
Author goldenguy2017
Upvotes 90
Comments 242
Date 28 February 2019 08:59 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/220407
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/avw4p1/ltr_giving_me_the_ultimatum/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
long term relationship
Comments

[–]WIA20XX124 points125 points  (1 child) | Copy

Walk.

Her clock is ticking and you're indecisive.

[–]slimbleudog2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen107 points108 points  (18 children) | Copy

She's a good girl,

She's trying to pressure you into a position of weakness. How is that "being a good girl"?

Abundance mentality my dude. If she doesn't want to stay with you, because you are not offering her a perspective where you are putting yourself into a loose.win situation, let her leave.

It's also the most honest and fair thing, if you are interested in morality, to tell her "Listen baby, you know I will never marry. I told you right from the beginning that this will not be a classic relationship and you know that you are free to leave whenever you want. You also know I love you and want you by my side.

So you need to make a choice what's more important for you: being with me or having a ceremony."

Don't say shit like this if you don't mean it though. She will smell your insecurity from miles away and it will only cause you drama.

Also if you are to be susceptible to this kind of blackmail, you have already lost.

[–]Mescalean24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy

She looks up at him with those doe eyes while polishing his pole.

Shes a good girl bro/s

Good advice. I bet if OP walked and held frame she’d follow or come running back. If she jumps on someone else’s dick right after well then was she a good girl OP?

[–]hugaddiction1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

more than 50% of these ultimatums are shit tests in my experience. If you are a higher status than her, she likely isn't going anywhere. Unless she has someone else in mind...

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (12 children) | Copy

She's realizing that she needs to do what's best for her and told him what she needs. How does that make her any less of a good girl?

[–]SolarTortality-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s a woman’s biological imperative to find the best possible man she can before her looks go away. That doesn’t make her good or bad, whether she’s a hoe makes her good or bad (as far as marriage material goes)

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah she's doing exactly what girls do and doing it in the most respectable way I can think of. Guys would say the same thing to a girl who was withholding sex. Fuck me or next. Nothing wrong with that.

[–]SolarTortality7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. I thought the redpill was all about understanding the biological imperatives of women.

[–]Kpwn88-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

she needs to do what's best for her and told him what she needs

Girls don't even know what's best for them.

[–]hugaddiction0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

when I hear the term "good girl" , I think high value female partner, not a well behaved, or dutiful one

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those are equivalent knucklehead

[–][deleted] 139 points140 points  (19 children) | Copy

So she is telling you that being married is more important to her than being WITH YOU.

Dump her ass and don't look back. Or you could just lead her on for a while and keep fucking her.

[–]phatphreak66633 points34 points  (6 children) | Copy

Yes sir you nailed it in one sentence.

Being married is more important than being with you.

On the other hand if you love her and want to make babies with her you can give her a non-traditional ceremony. Something like some pagan Druids or some such. They have "marriage" agreements that are only good for 7 years, perhaps you can see the benefit.

You can give her a ceremony and commitment that all the friends and family can enjoy that does not involve the third-party being the state.

Traditional marriage between man and woman always involves a third party that being the state and it is the boot of the state that kicks millions of men in the balls over and over and over again.

Keep the state out of your relationships.

[–]SelfUnmadeMan13 points14 points  (4 children) | Copy

Careful, though! The state (or her lawyers) might find a way to make your non-traditional ceremony legally binding.

[–]1jacques_cousteau0073 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Might try some “common law” bullshit

Like living with your partner for more than 2 years makes it a common law marriage

Best to get informed, or have the ceremony at Chuck E Cheese.

[–]Kpwn881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The state (or her lawyers) might find a way to make your non-traditional ceremony legally binding.

They can, and will. You don't even need a ceremony, you only need records and/or witnesses proving that you called each other husband/wife.

[–]vicious_armbar 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

That’s why it’s important to talk to a family law lawyer first.

[–]Aptote2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol, family law

[–]HurricaneHugues0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No negotiations. The girl is more interested in being married than she is when being with OP

[–]BoredToDeathx4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly!

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So she is telling you that being married is more important to her than being WITH YOU.

+1

Think about what incentivizes people and their behavior will be more predictable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wait, what do the numbered flairs mean again?

[–]NeuroBoss310 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing first sentence

[–]rugged79-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Saved.

Currently trying to figure out how to reword this into a bumper sticker.

[–]BookyMcBooks62 points63 points  (23 children) | Copy

If you want to end up losing your house later on in life, and watching this woman who was your "little princess" fuck another guy in the house that was once yours, I say go ahead, get married.

Think of all the people you know who have gotten married, and their kids are now grown up, where are they now? You'll probably notice that people who have reached this stage... the wives have branch-swung onto a "better guy", and divorce-raped them and took the house, and are now fucking some other guy in the house that was once the husband's.

If you want this kind of future, go ahead, get married. She will leave you at the drop of a hat once she's done with you. It's just her biological nature.

Sooner or later, her pussy will stop tingling for you.

[–]amwfhunter6 points7 points  (20 children) | Copy

Depends how many homes you have and if she is willing to pay for the house too. Matrimonial home gets split regardless of prenup so make her pay mortgage payments. If she isnt willing to do that they dont marry. I was once married but my wife was richer than me even. We have multiple homes so I just said u take this one, I'll take this one. He said she has a good career so as long as they split the mortgage payments and both buy the house who cares man.

Now I do agree with you marriage is not the best idea dont get me wrong but if you treat it as a business relationship and make it beneficially legally it could be good for a while lol. I actually benefitted from my marriage to be honest. Wife was a ceo, I was a new grad. She taught me how to do business I became a millionaire in a few years and when we split I just left with what I made and she kept hers. Easy.

[–]Michael_Uchiha62 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy

Women don't divorce like men. Men are usually also the breadwinners.

First part of post is okay, but the rest is a false equivalence.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women don't divorce like men

Women directly initiate 75% of divorces and likely coerce the man into initiating a good proportion of the rest.

Men are usually also the breadwinners.

Yes, and will continue to be after the divorce.

[–]Michael_Uchiha60 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Haha, sorry for not being clearer. We're on the same page on that stuff.

I was responding to the guy who cheated, divorced his wife and came out a millionaire from his marriage (and how he's a rare exception from marriage 2.0... heck, even from 1.0)

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah...... it's long odds. Even those guys who do well out of it.... how much better could they have done if they weren't married?

[–]amwfhunter-2 points-1 points  (11 children) | Copy

I cheated on her many times. That is why I left.

[–]Michael_Uchiha68 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

You left her... because you kept cheating on her? And you cashed out during the divorce? Lol, what a story.

I'm glad it all worked out for you, but you're clearly a unique case on how things usually go. I'm just cautioning others from seeing yours as the rule, and not the exception.

[–]amwfhunter3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I didnt cash out on the divorce. I made a lot of money in my own business using the skills I acquired through her advice. I'm not the type of guy who takes something that isnt mine especially when I'm at fault. I ain't a bitch.

[–]Aptote-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

die in a fire

[–]ReformSociety2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

You say that like you're proud of being a cheater.

Some people...

[–]amwfhunter2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I did it I'm not going to hide the fact that I didnt.

[–]ReformSociety-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

I (and everyone else) have done stuff I'm not proud of but I don't go blurting it out on comments?

To each his own.

[–]amwfhunter-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

In the context of the conversation it is just how I am. I act like this irl too. I'll own up to my faults when necessary.

[–]Aptote-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

you are a cunt

fuck off

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow you really have an issue with me. You are now stalking me like a disgruntled ex.

[–]furcryingoutloud-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

TIL that religious dogma is to be observed as a RedPill.

[–]Aptote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

fuck off

[–]ChemicalGiraffe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

AWALT applies to you also, don't know what you are bragging about here.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

if she is willing to pay for the house too.

"Oops, I lose my job, looks like you're paying".

Matrimonial home gets split regardless of prenup so make her pay mortgage payments

Sure, because divorce is always fair and men do alright out of it. Surrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I was once married but my wife was richer than me even.

The divorce courts shame and punish men for "relying on his wife" and the payout isn't the same as the reverse.

Now I do agree with you marriage is not the best idea dont get me wrong but if you treat it as a business relationship and make it beneficially legally it could be good for a while lol.

What's the upside though?

It's just a terrible fucking plan all round.

Wife was a ceo, I was a new grad. She taught me how to do business I became a millionaire in a few years and when we split I just left with what I made and she kept hers. Easy.

This is one of those super rare cases where the man does ok out of the deal. These are EXTREMELY rare, and only if there's no kids and you get lucky in court.

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I also wrote in a later post that 99.9999999% of the time it is a bad idea tho..

[–]DadOnDabs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. And after only 2 years? Minimum of 5 years then we'll talk about labels

[–]Aptote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

all true in this day... what legislates, enforces and benefits from this?

the state

[–]jrterry196953 points54 points  (22 children) | Copy

1) She's probably right. If she wants to get married two years is long enough.

2) If you aren't saying to yourself "hell yea", then definitely don't marry her.

3) if you ARE saying to yourself "hell yea", take a long hard look at what marriage is really like.

For me, I waited until I was in my forties to get married. Had three kids, got divorced after 11 years anyway. I am in my fifties with three grade school kids I share custody of. It does cut into my freedom

OTOH, I could have gotten married and divorced starting at your age. That would have been a problem since I cherished my freedom in my thirties. BUT, they'd be a lot older now, and I would be free-er.

[–]classylassy286 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Statistics have show men who marry at around 27-32 are the ones who have long lasting marriages, outside of that range they usually fail for some reason. You're just another statistic.

[–]mickymark12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Finances my friend.

[–]jrterry19690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone's a statistic.

Its not as if the odds of divorce age 27-32 is miniscule, and outside of that range divorce is almost certain.

You have slightly better odds in that age range.

[–]LondonChad19993 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

So you're saying that you should have waited until later to have kids?

[–]jrterry19690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

NO, but sometimes I wish I had started sooner. But at the time, I was glad to be free.

[–]livefreeofdie1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So choose your poison type of situation?

[–]jrterry19690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, exactly. I chose to pursue other things until later in life.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy

1) She's probably right. If she wants to get married two years is long enough.

Uhhhh, no, wtf.

[–]SerialATA_Killer15 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy

I think he means from her perspective, not from male TRP perspective. If he is going to get married, 2 years is enough time vetting.

[–]jrterry19690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I mean from her perspective. Should you care? If you want to understand her motivation, yes. You should know she's not going to wait around much longer, and plan accordingly.

[–]jrterry19691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not that it should matter to him, but looking at her mating strategy, that's what she should probably do to maximize her odds of getting married.

[–]W_O_M_B_A_T9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're the gatekeeper of commitment. Your girlfriend can't just walk up to admissions at Harvard or Princeton and demand they let her in, otherwise her relationship with them is over.

No, she has to go through the application process and then they decide who and how many to let in, and what their standards for entry are that year. If her life plans involve college, that's great too,but Harvard is not obligated to let her in.

So if, according to her frame, her life plans involve marriage. That's just fine. But you are not obligated to fit yourself into her frame, especially if she tries to make ultimatums.

Your mission, your frame, your life plans, your goals first. No exceptions. She's along for the ride and you're heading towards your goals with or without her. If she meets some of her goals by doing so, great!

So the two conditions you need are, yes you definitely want to get married have kids and pass on you genes and knowledge to the next gen, and yes she is definitely wife and mother material.

Unless both of these are true, you should not even respond to her ultimatums and treat them like a shit test.

[–]imtheoneimmortal1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He should laugh like a dad of a guy in a post where

She wants divorce and say it on table, the dad started laughing heyeheueheheh and she was getting serious

Then they fucked

[–]RedSkeller7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Speaking in generalities, woman have a plan. They have hard ages when they want marriage/kids and you're lucky she's being upfront about it. If you're not down for it break up with her before she cheats or starts nagging.

[–]Hyper_Sonik47 points48 points  (51 children) | Copy

A woman willing to throw a relationship away because the man doesn't want to be legally married signals that she doesn't love him. But we all know it's a bluff. I'd say, there's the door.

Seriously, have women not seen the writing on the wall? That men are walking away from marriage in droves. At most I'd get "married" symbolically without any legal joinder. Such entitled cunts. Straight up, it's a threat.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (4 children) | Copy

MY MAN!

I've been telling people this idea for years... you can have a wedding, she can change her last name, you can call each other husband and wife... JUST DON'T SIGN ANY LEGAL MARRIAGE DOCUMENTS.

[–]ENTPunisher 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy

Unless you live somewhere with common law marriage

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You don’t want to live in those places anyways

[–]genesisofman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Texas is nice

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh no

[–]EosMermaidGoddess2 points3 points  (45 children) | Copy

No it doesnt. It signals that shes a woman. What we women need the most from a man is stability. We have a "biological clock" that makes us aware that we need to start having babies before we hit the wall and our fertility goes down. Having babies out of wedlock for a lot of us means instability. So what this woman is saying is "Im getting old. I need stability and if you cant provide that then please just go so I can find someone that will give me stability as quickly as possible". Im sure she loves him deeply which is why shes urging him to get married. Ideally she wants that feeling of stability with him. What are you, a MGTOW? 🙄

[–]nummas24 points25 points  (6 children) | Copy

If you think only marriage will make a relationship stable you are delusional.

A piece of paper, expensive party, a ring that does nothing, and bragging rights will not stop the bride or groom from falling out of love, or potentially cheat, in the future. It will not make any children they have more intelligent, or any different.

It is nothing but a status thing that puts a woman on the pedestal where she is the ultimate centre of attention for a day.

It does not hold the meaning it once did in the past, society has changed, and no one cares these days if you are not married or get divorce.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

I never said thats the "only" thing that makes a relationship stable. lol

[–]nummas6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is your only come back? Convince me marriage makes things any better in any way.

[–]ALLTHEUSERNAMESRFUKI1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The marriage solely benefits the woman. The woman wants security, a legally binding piece of paper does that. It most definitely will not improve the relationship though. But best case scenario for the woman is that the person she marries is a true alpha and doesn't become cucked as time progresses as so many men do.

[–]omega_dawg932 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

if you're willing to end a good relationship over marriage, then, yes, you ARE saying it is the only thing.

be honest to yourself. if you were a man... knowing how the divorce, custody, etc. laws work, would YOU do it? seriously... would you?

[–]magx011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

be honest to yourself. if you were a man.

They are incapable of doing what you're hoping for.

[–]magx01-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You spelled "oh fuck wow saw right through me" incorrectly.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

Ma'am, excuse me, but who the fuck are you fooling with that snake oil bullshit? I'm from New York, I know a con when I see one. Nice try!

[–]EosMermaidGoddess2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

What are you even talking about? Wbat did I say thats incorrect? Feel free to browse/ask in RedPillWomen since you clearly have 0 understanding of womens desires.

[–]omega_dawg939 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

lol at women knowing what da fuck they want.

women change thoughts, wants, and find themselves attracted to different shit every hour.

what y'all REALLY want is a $15,000, 30-min ceremony and 4 hour after party where you're the 'princess for a day,' to fulfill some social checklist thingy that ALL women feel pressured to "at least try once or twice or 6 times."

a lot of women want to GET married... very few want to BE married-esp. after going around and around on the cock carousel for attention.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

what y'all REALLY want is a $15,000, 30-min ceremony and 4 hour after party where you're the 'princess for a day,' to fulfill some social checklist thingy that ALL women feel pressured to "at least try once or twice or 6 times."

Damn this is so well said. I'm definitely saving this comment. Absolutely right on the money.

My little sister who is 26 is pressuring her current boyfriend for marriage. Then had the nerve to tell my mom that she wants her wedding to cost at least $20k.

She's huge on social media so everyone with a brain knows she just wants the damn wedding.

[–]civilizedfrog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reminds me of an old Indian comedy movie, where one of the protagonist tells a girl that communist marriage is just signing a marriage contract after which they will have a glass of lemon juice with lentil fritters and if she wants it to be more fancy, then maybe a cigarette. Maybe he should try this lol

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

I couldn't give a rat's ass what you's want, and I could give a rat's ass about your subreddit.

"Redpilled Women"? What an oxymoron!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's not the idea that "women want security" that I'm calling bullshit on, you're absolutely right. I'm calling you out on you coming over here to convince men why they need to accept a woman's ultimatum, get married, and completely disregard the red pill, and you're doing it under the false guise of being "a red pilled woman".

[–]EosMermaidGoddess-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lol you sound like a beta that doesnt actually get laid. Being a selfish little prick doesnt make you an alpha either.

[–]magx012 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Calling yourself a goddess does make you a basic ass bitch though :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's exactly what I thought, you have absolutely nothing relevant to say, because you know I'm right. You don't know shit about the red pill, you're just parroting jargon and attempting to honey pot, and you're failing miserably. BE GONE, THOT!

[–]HurricaneHugues-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You clearly have ni understanding of a man's logic

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (10 children) | Copy

If marriage is more important to her than being with me... no thanks, next.

[–]Astraeus91951 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thoughts on prenups? Seems like people here are a bit too uncompromising on this topic.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Those tend to get thrown out by a judge if the woman have a good lawyer. I don't know the details specifically but plenty of guys mentioned before that prenuptial agreements don't guarantee anything

[–]EosMermaidGoddess0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Ok, then go. Don't waste her time. I'd say the same to guy that didn't want commitment. "Thank u, next"

[–]vicious_armbar 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy

The problem isn’t lack of commitment from men. It’s lack of commitment from women who file for 2/3rds of divorces, and then proceed to divorce rape their husbands. Women love GETTING married, but hate actually BEING married.

[–]HurricaneHugues2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why are u getting downvoted?

What has this sub come to?

[–]EosMermaidGoddess-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If the husband cheats on her well no shit shes gonna divorce him. Women cheat too sometimes but its hilarious how many of you in here are acting like youre innocent.

[–]civilizedfrog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I ended it with last 3 plates because all of them were engaged. One of whom got married, even after I told him he truth. And she still sends me message from random numbers. If I had to say women cheat a lot more than men. They are just better at hiding it.

[–]HurricaneHugues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So a man could literally give you the world, but you would lead him because he didn't tie a legal noose around his neck for you? Lol get lost u fucking clown. Its why u dumb broads are still single in your 40s with dried up raisin ovaries.

[–]Whatdoin270 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who the fuck are you supposed to be, Ariana Grande? Did you seriously use that stupid song title like that? You're a fuckin' joke dude. Do you even know what that song promotes? Put it this way, it's exactly why guys aren't falling for that shit anymore. Marriage is just a fucking contract telling the woman please play the "I'm not happy card" and take all my belongings. Are you that stupid? Hahahahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂

You dear, you win the dumbest fucking comment reward today.

[–]ALLTHEUSERNAMESRFUKI0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's rare to find a sensible woman in today's world.

edit spelling

[–]phatphreak6666 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like a surge of RP Femmes posting here recently. Did you all get a memo yesterday?

[–]rugged793 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would say there are other ways to achieve this besides an ultimatum. True, he might have been ignoring the signs, but we as men are not psychic.

She may have handled it the "normal" way, but if she was communicating her needs properly, this dude wouldn't be on here asking this question. OFC he's also to blame for not making sure he identified and addressed these things early on.

Another big thing is, she has to instill the desire in him to make him WANT to marry her, in the same way he has done in her. If she hasn't done that, we don't have a match here. If she has, then he might have to figure that out.

If two years was some sort of limit, then she should have let him know that in advance, not spring it like some math quiz.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with all of what you said. Setting a rough idea for a timeline and instilling the desire, etc. I dont think theyre a match in general and OP shouldnt stay if he hates the idea of marriage entirely. A desire for marriage doesnt make her some horrible demon like a lot of the little selfish dicks in here think it does. Almost none of the guys in here are actually the alphas they think they are 😅 You sound sensible though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is actually 100% correct. It's basic biology. For those that disagree - think a woman can ignore biology? Neither could a man. If you're attracted to women - you won't be able to help but look at any hot girl walking by. Your can prevent your head from looking... But that doesn't mean you didn't want to look.

[–]HurricaneHugues0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What does marriage have to do with biology? Name one animal species other than humans who get married.

[–]magx011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He means the underlying commitment/security aspect that marriage is supposed to signify.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Marriage is an artificial social construct.

A woman's desire to have long term security for her upcoming child isn't.

[–]Hyper_Sonik5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

"It signals that she's a woman" Well fuck me, thank God for marriage cuz I wasnt sure.... I don't give a flying fuck about your excuses. Being married is a symbol. It changes nothing about the relationship except on paper. In fact, the data shows that getting married is detrimental to the relationship. Your response has no real reasoning except "it let's us know you're not going anywhere". Well fuck, if you have a kid with someone you've been in a LTR with for years you're both highly likely to commit 100%. I don't know why you've tried to label/shame/categorize me with your implication that I'm MGTOW. There's so many flavors of MGTOW that no matter what response I give you will find some way to box me in. If you're asking if I believe in marriage, my answer is a resounding HELL NO, GOOD BYE!

[–]BookyMcBooks5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Later on in life, when the kids are grown up and independent, she'll want to be a whore again, and branch-swing to a better guy. She'll divorce rape him, take the house, and fuck some chaddier dude in the house that was once his.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Once a whore, always a whore. That's why you don't commit to a whore to begin with. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]BookyMcBooks9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

All women are whores to some extent. Just look at nature, men are disposable not just in humanity, but many other species as well.

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

as i read here on reddit: "all women are sluts... with the exception of your sister (out of ignorance) and your mother (out of respect)."

you may not be HIS slut, but you've been somebody's slut or will be eventually.

[–]moltenw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol

[–]serve_my_goddess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ha! No, if she loves him, she wouldn't care about forcing him into a legal corner.

This is some serious blue pilled bullshit right here. Women have more rights and freedoms than ever. They are more powerful socially than men. Women don't need stability -- they WANT a cashpig. Women hold all the power after marriage. This is simply a power play.

Come on, nowadays, women rule the world, and they want US to pay for it.

[–]HurricaneHugues-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's called holding someone hostage. A man has too much to lose in a divorce. The juice is not worth the squeeze. If a marriage is more important than the guy you're with, you never loved him.

[–]magx01-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

$tability

[–]Casanova-Quinn11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you really wanted to marry her, you wouldn't be asking us for advice. Sounds like you need to break up. There are other "good girls" you can love. She's not a unicorn.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper24 points25 points  (7 children) | Copy

Don't want to lock myself down forever, but I also don't want to lose a good girl manipulative socially retarded shrew whom I love am emotionally dependent on.

Fixed that for your dumb ass.

Good women do not give you ultimatums.

[–]amwfhunter15 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy

They do because they are looking out for themselves too. If I was a chick I'd do the same. I think this is just human nature man.

I'm not trying to white knight but I always look at it from all perspectives. Now having said that, this dude needs to know the risks of what is getting into. 9999999.99999/10000000 times it never is a good idea.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

They do because they are looking out for themselves too. If I was a chick I'd do the same. I think this is just human nature man.

How does that make it good for him?

[–]amwfhunter6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hence the 999999.999 % of the time it is not a good idea statement. Just coz I understand the womans perspective and empathize does not mean I agree was my point brother. Hope that clarifies.

[–]RinkyInky9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Totally agree with you. A lot of people here have the mindset that men are right and women are wrong. That’s not true. This is human nature, we all look out for the best for ourselves, it’s normal. It’s just that divorce laws make it so much more in favour for women.

[–]amwfhunter3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Indeed. If the state did not intervene and structure the marriage as a business relationship in it's legal standing and have property division and no fault divorce I would believe it is truly a romantic union. But the numbers say otherwise.

[–]Aptote-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

the state is your enemy in everything, not just women

[–]boy_named_su3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

What red flags she got? Strong father figure? Feminist? Body count? Work ethic?

Do you want kids?

[–]goldenguy2017 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy

Good work ethic, solid career. Great father. Hates Feminism. Uh, yeah.. so, she's pretty rare I feel. I'm undecided on children still. That's half the problem

[–]amwfhunter4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

The problem with good career is if she leaves her career to take care of your kids...should anything happen....alimony is shit. If u wanna get married prenup. Make sure she pays for the house as well as you.

[–]Aptote-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

fuck off, troll

[–]magx011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

All of that changes when the kids come.

[–]Aptote-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

you lost me at 'solid career'

career is your role, not hers

she sucks

[–]xNinja362 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your options are to either walk away and she ends up marrying someone else or you marry her. Only options OP

[–]EosMermaidGoddess12 points13 points  (29 children) | Copy

What we (women) need the most from a man is stability.

We want the functioning nuclear family.

Shes 25. Shes wondering when the hell shes gonna have a baby. We dont stay fertile forever and the health risks of having a baby increase with age. Shit, Im only 23 and Im thinking the same thing. Not to jump into it this second but I want a baby before Im 30.

She wants to do the right thing and be married before having a baby. A stable, nuclear family. She wants that with you.

What shes trying to get across is that if you cant offer her that then she needs time to find a man that will. She wants the deeper commitment.

[–]phatphreak6669 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

What is your opinion about a non-traditional marriage that does not involve a third party... the third party is the state and the state always makes a man pay financial penalties.

What if the OP can offer his love and commitment and resources to this woman to make a family with her-- that does not involve the tyranny of big brother?

[–]EosMermaidGoddess5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I actually wish the government wasnt part of marriage at all because the government sucks at fucking everything. I mostly just think it makes sense for kids to share the same last name as both parents. My sister and I have different biological fathers and growing up I found it embarrassing to explain why we had different last names. Its stability for the children too.

[–]xddm26533 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's the whole reason we're against marriage. There are legitatime ways to tie a man down and state sanctioned marriage is not one of them.

Just have kids and get married privately, not on paper.

[–]petergriffin266011 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Female perspective appreciated here, thanks.

[–]masterpiece004 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Too bad they don't know what they want.
And this is a men's forum.

[–]HurricaneHugues0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Farck off

[–]ramfex218 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

It’s all about her. She wants a man to impregnate her and then provide for her financially. She understands that’s if the relationship doesn’t work long term (which it won’t) that marriage is the safest investment SHE can make. She then gets the security of alimony, child support and perhaps even the mans house and money in this future.

But let’s think, what does the man get out of this. Perhaps the only thing of value that he can possibly get out of this situation is a CHILD. That’s it. With marriage comes: A decrease or the complete ending of sex. He has to fork out big time for a ring, wedding and honey moon. (Which will likely be the last time he has decent sex, unless he cheats). Women see marriage as the last point in breaking a man. Once he marries her she pretty much owns him.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

She wants a man to impregnate her and then provide for her financially. Thats what humans have done since the beginning of time. She understands that’s if the relationship doesn’t work long term (which it won’t) that marriage is the safest investment SHE can make. "which it wont" - you're likely right about that since OP seems to lack commitment, but if you're under the impression that marriage in general doesnt work then I'm sorry you have such a depressing view of the world. I've seen more happy, long lasting marriages in my life than divorces so I can't even begin to relate.

What does the man get out of it? Family. Stability. A woman to love him and take care of him emotionally and ideally- sexually. Again I cant relate because the married people I know in my family (aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins) are all happily married. Everyones sex life is going to married and plenty of people have dead bedrooms but plenty of people dont. If your bedroom goes stale its likely because both of them got fat. Especially here in America. If people actually stayed healthy maybe they'd be fuckable. I'm not gonna expect somebody to fuck me if he cant keep his dick up because Im 50 pounds overweight just like Im not gonna suck his dick if hes fat and ugly.

[–]Hambone_Malone2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ideally is the key word here. Most people here know things don't ever work out ideally. I've experienced it first hand. Partners never keep the same level of sexual support once the dread of them leaving is gone.

[–]HurricaneHugues0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Too many marriages in divorce: https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/family-law-blog/2012/october/32-shocking-divorce-statistics/

The juice is not worth the squeeze. A man vsn have all that nonsense u wrote without signing off his rights to the state. And if u really loved your man you wouldn't subject him to such a one sided legal trap that is entirely dependent on your mood at the moment. Case closed.

[–]HurricaneHugues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So why isbl it that syatisticalky speaking the majority of divorces are initiated by women?

A stable nuclear family is not a guarantee with a marriage. A stable nuclear family depends on the character of the parties involved. Holding someone legally hostage is not what a nuclear family is. You say you want marriage right? Have u ever stopped to think about how biased family courts are and how horrible of a deal marriage is for men? Does that factor into your reasoning at all? If you even reason...

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

And I agree with everything you said except, your value decreases and ours increases yet what are you bringing to the table that I cannot already get?

[–]EosMermaidGoddess1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

I'm not understanding what you mean when you say a mans value increases over time. Do you mean financially? Obviously a womans sexual value will decrease over time but a mans will too so I'm lost as to what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

[–]amwfhunter1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

A man's smv increases where as a woman's drops. A man's smv may decrease but it is a slow burn not a plummet like women. As long as a man is rich he will always have women. U got it.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

Welp, you've stumped me with the money. I wouldn't say men dont get ugly though. A lot of older men get bald, if they dont lift (which you should if you're red pilled) then you lose muscle mass and possibly get a beer belly and eventually erectile dysfunction... Men and women both can stay reasonably attractive if they're healthy, I mean theres tons of MILF and cougar porn out there LOL You're right about the money though, if a man is rich he can always have women. But most men arent rich and unless they're getting foreign brides young women dont want them if they cant afford their designer purses or whatever other dumb materialistic crap it is that whores like. i dont know.

I cant relate to this mentality. As I said in some other comments, most of my family members have all had long lasting stable marriages. My great grandparents, grandparents, all of my aunts and uncles and my cousins that are older than me have all had lasting happy marriages. I'd strive to be like them rather than a lonely 50 something thats single with no responsibility and sleeping around, thats some college/child like shit. Not "alpha". Alpha is like Obama. Hes with one woman, has been for a long time and I doubt he'll get divorced anytime soon.

If you're 80 years old or whatever and you die alone... how is that something to look forward to? You dont want a wife that will care for you? My grandma stayed by my grandpas side for a week straight in the nursing home. Ladies from church brought her food and stopped by her house to feed the dog. You don't want that? Not all women are these nutty feminist screeching psychos with victim mentality lol

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Lol yeah but I lift and I'm comfortable financially. I've set myself up that my money makes itself too and a team of lawyers on retainer that I turn to for advice. I'm still in my 30s. I've married a former ceo, now divorced. She and I kept our own assets. Now I'm spinning a few plates all 30 and under. I know my time will come eventually but I just do what I can to improve my life.

Wife who can care for me? A nurse costs less than half my assets. As for kids, 50k to get a surrogate, 20k to get the egg donor of my choosing should I decide to do so. A tutor costs about 2000 a month for a good one.

I love cooking but i have a chef who costs around $60 a day should I use his services for 2 meals not including the ingredients to which I buy.

Personal trainer and strength coach, elite level $500 a month.

I have a maid who comes in 1x a week for about 150 to clean my house. My house pays for itself as I'm renting it to a few guys so I live for free.

I have a vacation home that I stay at which I turned into an airbnb when I'm not there.

I have at least two women (other than my mom and sisters or blood family) in my life whom I know love me dearly, one being my ex wife. I dont need to give them anything except a few gifts during holidays and a few visits to which I can expense on my company or write off.

I add up all the costs....still nothing compared to costs of marriage.

When I'm old I have two options, private nurse to which i have a fund I saved into an investment account that will withdraw about 6000 a month to cover her costs. Or I can use that to live on a cruise ship when I'm older shoukd I decide not to be in a retirement village.

[–]EosMermaidGoddess3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Welp, you're rich. For lower middle class people who cant afford that kind of stuff- like my dad or my boyfriend- I dont see them having any of those things you mentioned. Nursing homes arent cheap... but I wouldnt do that to my dad anyway (unlike a lot of people). You're an exception. I mean it sucks you're divorced but not all marriages are doomed just because yours failed lol

[–]amwfhunter2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

The legal system is set up to allow marriages to fail though. Mine failed because I cannot stay committed to one woman.

No fault divorces, uneven custody of children in favor of women. Average of 50% divorce rates. I dont think men should be egotistical enough to play against the odds. Not to mention 90% of divorces are initiated by women. Again you have failed to produce any relevance of why it benefits a man to be married and what you bring to the table that a single man cannot get? A woman can cheat and still take half. Even with a prenup, the matrimonial home is split and child support must be paid.

It is even worse for Lower middle class people who depend on every cent for their livelihood. How many staff members have I seen go to financial ruin because of failed marriages. For most people, their home is their biggest expense....you work all your life for a home just to have it broken? Hell no.

[–]Astraeus91951 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

That 50% rate takes into account multiple marriages of people who keep divorcing. Basically a man who married once and stayed marry counts as 1, whereas a man who married and divorced 3 times counts as 3 marriages that ended in divorce. This would make it so 3 out of 4 marriages fail if we were using that sample of people. "3 out of 4 marriages fail!" What people think that statistic means is that within a lifetime of a person they have a 50% chance of marrying and staying married - that's not what that percentage is.

If people who have marriages that fall apart only counted as one, then the percentage of people getting married and staying married (and never divorcing) is 75%. Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/heart-the-matter/201704/do-half-all-marriages-really-end-in-divorce

Also, this whole thread - it sounds like you're paying large amounts of money to obtain an imitation of what could be had in a real marriage. The whole thing sounds the same as saying: "Why have a friend when you can pay someone monthly to hang out with you and talk with them. Real friends cost more than someone to pay anyway if you do the math."

[–]amwfhunter1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I base my life on risk vs benefit and cost analysis. My point is relatively speaking it is a very minute cost vs the cost of marriage and the cost of the consequences to be out of marriage. I prefer to operate in quantifiable terms. This is a mere example of value systems. When you actually assign a number to it, then you can actually see what things are really worth.

Results and outcomes over hypotheticals.

I found the most success using this approach than trying to follow some mundane pipedream that may or may not come to fruition.

As for your example of real friends, I do understand the value of true friendship, after all there are things money cannot buy, but marriage is not one of them. Nice try though. Perhaps when the state no longer intervenes with the constitution of marriage then I'll be more inclined to see things your way.

[–]SeasonedRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On this sub, men are given advice according to RP principles that is aimed at benefiting them. This is different from the traditional advice that society gives to men, which is aimed at benefiting women. The BP/tradcon fantasy peddled to men--that if they get married, they'll have a woman who loves them for who they are, who will be there in good times and in bad, and who will take care of them when they are old--is a fairly tale. That doesn't happen in real life. A woman's sexual strategy changes once she locks a man down. Accordingly, a woman's attraction decreases over the course of an LTR, and marriage causes it to plummet, especially after kids are born. The reality for men who marry is that when they are 45, they will live with someone who loathes them, who holds them in contempt. The best they can hope for is civility and occasional transactional sex. Far from being cared for in their old age, their wives are thrilled when they die and have full use of the marital assets. Staying in shape and acting alpha won't ameliorate that, and neither will marrying someone who says she isn't a feminist.

So yes, marriage does potentially benefit you, but it won't benefit the OP.

[–]amwfhunter-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lol yeah but I lift and I'm comfortable financially. I've set myself up that my money makes itself too and a team of lawyers on retainer that I turn to for advice. I'm still in my 30s. I've married a former ceo, now divorced. She and I kept our own assets. Now I'm spinning a few plates all 30 and under. I know my time will come eventually but I just do what I can to improve my life.

Wife who can care for me? A nurse costs less than half my assets. As for kids, 50k to get a surrogate, 20k to get the egg donor of my choosing should I decide to do so. A tutor costs about 2000 a month for a good one.

I love cooking but i have a chef who costs around $60 a day should I use his services for 2 meals not including the ingredients to which I buy.

Personal trainer and strength coach, elite level $500 a month.

I have a maid who comes in 1x a week for about 150 to clean my house. My house pays for itself as I'm renting it to a few guys so I live for free.

I have a vacation home that I stay at which I turned into an airbnb when I'm not there.

I have at least two women (other than my mom and sisters or blood family) in my life whom I know love me dearly, one being my ex wife. I dont need to give them anything except a few gifts during holidays and a few visits to which I can expense on my company or write off.

I add up all the costs....still nothing compared to costs of marriage.

When I'm old I have two options, private nurse to which i have a fund I saved into an investment account that will withdraw about 6000 a month to cover her costs. Or I can use that to live on a cruise ship when I'm older shoukd I decide not to be in a retirement village.

[–]Aptote0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

as if

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol I just noticed you like piggy backing on my posts. Did you want an autograph?

[–]Aptote-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

asktrp is not about what you (the fuck hole) wants, so fuck off

who gives a fuck what you want?

let's make a list of what we want, where does what this 25 yo woman wants place on the list?

top 10?

[–]GGrub8-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, what women who demand a marriage really want is power and control.

There is no love involved in this and that is why no marriage should occur when the ultimatum is dropped.

[–]Asktrpthrowaway4202 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's hard to walk away after getting to know someone well. However, the hard path is usually the right one to take, and you'll be better for it in the end.

[–]Aptote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

2 years of dating?

"dating" for 2 years is an LTR?

[–]ramfex212 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How is no fault divorce at the drop of a hat stability?? Marriage used to be a viable option for men, but it just isn’t like that anymore. It’s all catered to women. You can have a child without marriage.

[–]GGrub80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Precisely.

A marriage gives the woman outrageous power over her husband for the rest of his life.

Do you hate yourself so much you're willing to give A WOMAN this kind of power over you?

[–]RVCFever2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I feel like if you wanted to marry her you wouldn't be having this debate with yourself.

[–]CaptainKidd962 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP listen to the rational people in the comment section because at the moment you are clearly looking at the situation with blurred vision because of your love towards this woman.
If you ever decide to get married down the road with a different girl that's up to you. See what I just said there? It's UP TO YOU, meaning that you have to be the one who wants to marry. At this point it's pretty clear that you do not want to marry and by doing so you will shoot yourself in the foot. By marrying this girl after she already gave you the ultimatum is a sign of powerlessness and you will 100% enter her frame slowly but surely.

I also have a theory, hear me out. I have a strong feeling that in a 2-3 years she will also get baby rabbies and will give you an ultimatum with having children. What will you do then if you don't want kids?

My man, you are 28, you still have a shit ton of life in you. Don't throw it away just because your girlfriend gave you a stupid ultimatum.

[–]Ivabighairy12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wrap that little dude up so tight it will turn into a diamond in 2 weeks. If you don’t she WILL get pregnant and try to trap you.

[–]Popeman792 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

My LTR tried that shit twice. Once we were the two of us, she told me she wanted to marry. I said I'd never marry, but I was planning to spend the rest of my life with her as long as we were happy. Maybe she thought that peer pressure would work, so a couple of months later the subject came up again, this time in front of her family. Her grandma said that if I didn't marry her, she should find somebody else that would. I looked all the family dead in the eyes and said that yeah, maybe she should then, if this was so important for her. But I wouldn't marry. They all shut up.

She finally got the message that it's not that I had cold feet, but it was my well-thought stance. Since then she has accepted the situation, has never brought it up, and is mad if anybody else brings it up.

[–]askmrcia1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You handled that perfectly. I'll be in a similar boat soon. I'm 28 and the girl I'm with is 25. Her parents are pretty religious and her dad already bought up marriage with me before.

I dodged the question, but next time I'll respond similarly to how you did.

[–]cornbread074 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have a scarcity mindset. If she wants to go then let her. There are billions of women out there who are prolly 100 times better than her.

Also, if you give in then you are submitting to her frame. The relationship should be on your terms since you are the gatekeeper. If you give in now then she will be running the show and you will be the puppet.

[–]LondonChad19999 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

OP you already know what to do.

Go out to the nightclub tonight and bring home a chick with you.

Then do that again tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow.

Bet you're not even gonna take her seriously after that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bet he’s gonna be happy being with a different girl every night. 10/10 advice.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dump her.

You have a great thing going on, I bet. But she's giving you ultimatums and trying to control you. DON'T PUT UP WITH IT.

[–]3chazthundergut1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dont hold yourself emotionally hostage. This is your life.

There are lots of good girls out there, trust me. If she really loves you she will wait till you're ready

[–]nicyhasreddit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In marriage divorce is never to be mentioned. Same with relationships. Once a break up is mentioned just do it already.

[–]look_up_there1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The simple fact she is giving you an ultimatum like that means she is not a fucking "good girl". I'd get it done bro, move on and find the next one. There's others out there that you will love.

[–]zxcvb78091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah man it ain't happening. I would lead her on and fuck her for that.

[–]Kpwn881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS!

I would have calmly told her I don't appreciate being given ultimatums by someone who claims they love me. If she truly loved you she would prove she was marriage worthy by way of her actions.(Like my wife did) Why, after this, do you still love her? Are you afraid of losing her?

[–]128bitworm3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This "relationship" ended the moment she laid out the threat. You give in...you be better off hanging yourself. The choice is yours.

[–]BoredToDeathx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't do it if you don't want to. Seems that she cares more about the marriage than the whole relationship itself. I'm for one, not wanting to get married ever, you're pretty much losing your balls if you get married. (Not literally.)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If it helps, remember you won’t peak at your SMV for another decade...

[–]rugged790 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ask yourself this: "What makes her a good girl?"

[–]SillyHorn10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Walk away man, trust me you can always find another girl

[–]Nergaal0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What is stopping you from saying yes?

[–]AllTay0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In addition to what everyone else has already offered feel free to look at my post from a year ago on my profile.

That was back before I found any of the information that’s led me to this post.

It’s time to go my man.

[–]Enzuq0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly, that sort of question is more personal.

Do whatever the fuck you want bro, your life your happines.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The right answer here

[–]Aptote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

end it

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

do as you please, OP but not only are ultimatums a turn-off, they are IMMEDIATE grounds for me to turn and walk away; i simply do NOT accept them.

tell her you'll take your chances finding a younger, finer, lady that appreciates the man you are while she goes thru at least 5 or 6 more cocks before she finds someone worth her time... after all that time and cock mileage has passed.

iow, show her your ULTIMATUM = relax with that shit, or find yourself back at square zero searching for someone like me.

women don't typically leave a decent guy... so, if she's giving ultimatums, she's already vetted the next branch-swing pretty good and is feeling confident that he's a sure replacement. and yes, she's probably fucked him already.

i say, fuck it... let her go. walk. and OP, give up that "she's a good girl," bullshit. she's a girl. a human. and she's always going to be concerned about her feelings first, second, and third. fuck your feelings.

[–]Thizzlebot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If she's this gung ho to enter marriage imagine when she changes her mind and wants to exit it. Also it doesnt matter what you pick because even if you do marry her she will respect you less because you caved to her. Just go PANTERA AND WALK!

[–]SickOfIt5180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're too young, don't even think about marriage or kids until you're into your 30s.

[–]TheStumblingWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She gave you an ultimatum. There's nothing more to do. If you don't agree your relationship is dead. If you agree, she'll know she can pressure you and it'll be a slow and agonizing trip around the drain and eventually you'll be in a dark place wondering how you got there.

[–]OilyB0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's playing the power game. Marriage is most likely more important to her than you are. Wanna call it out? Tell her you need time to think about it. Then wait a year. Even 6 months. See what she does. She'll probably bail.

If she dares pressure you now, before marriage, imagine what she's capable of at the end of the marriage...

[–]party_dragon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Talk to a good lawyer, ask him what the actual difference is between being married and having kids unmarried. Then put a baby in her (assuming you want kids, of course).

[–]vivid_mind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Run!

[–]spartan_samurai0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I also don't want to lose a good girl whom I love.

You are at the losing end here by falling in love.

Decision about marriage should be mutual not when one party is given others ultimatums.

Walk away because if you were serious about getting married with her you would have been happy when she asked you rather than feared.

[–]earthredalert1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It won't be fun but you must walk away. There are potentially millions of other women in this world you could date and marry later when you are ready if that's what you want.

[–]goblinboglin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You know what to do.

As soon as she starts to give you ultimatums, you know where it leads.

Now imagine the cuckoldry had you married her.

[–]imtheoneimmortal0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The only thing I can say is that this decision will change your life

Either you choose marriage or let her go

[–]BuckNekkid180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You tell her this.

"Okay, bye."

[–]1walawalawa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

An ultimatum is a frame-snatch attempt. If you follow her lead, this relationship is forever finished. She will never respect that you caved in even though she may claim otherwise.

[–]maljo240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She is looking for her Captain. Do you have the balls to fill that roll?

Real Alphas have courage and are not afraid of marriage.

[–]Lambdal70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She’s doing the same as a guy that is thinking about his future with a flaky girl.

Either she wants to be with him for the next decade and potentially make children or not.

There are so many guys who would settle down with a high quality girl like the one OP describes. She is looking to do that. If OP doesn’t want it, he should tell her and she can find what she’s looking for.

[–]DeatCoreBoy10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Haven't seen nobody bringing this up. I think this might be some sort of comfort test. Just frame it your way and treat it accordingly. Wether you choose to marrie or not, does not matter as long as you frame it accordingly. Just don't give it to much attention and give her some validation. Playfully assume that she'll stick with you no matter what. If she is trying to secure you this hard, is because she is afraid to loose you and is trying to betaize you.

If she continues to corner you, then that's a bad thing and you should consider it as a red flag. Do not enter her frame.

[–]magx010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You lose either way. Question is do you want to be free or miserable?

[–]GGrub80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She doesn't love you.

A marriage ultimatum is NEVER out of genuine love.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're wasting her time if she wants to get married and start a family and you don't. Leave her. Let her find a man that does want to start a family. You're stealing her good years from her.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We've dated for 2 years. She finally just flat out told me, either we eventually get married, or end this relationship now.

The relationship is over, sorry to say.

Relationships are good for 1-2 years..... maybeeeeeeeee 3. After that they descend into sexless beta providership. Marriage is fucking awful. Getting into a new relationship is awesome.

Tell her "I'm sorry you feel that way", but don't agree to get married even in principle. And beware of her trying "back door marriage" otherwise known as pregnancy.

Look seriously at other options. "Don't want to lose her" is a fucking terrible reason to get married.

[–]hugaddiction0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Don't want to lock myself down forever" sounds like you already have the answer. Also, by saying that you aren't ready for marriage yet, but that you still value the relationship, may not actual be the end of it. She might not leave you, despite her threats. No matter what you do, the worst case scenario here is that after splitting up because you say no, realizing that you feel lonely and miss her so much that you get back together and get strong armed into marriage. You are more vulnerable to her manipulations a few weeks after the relationship ends if you really love her, than you are at this moment while it sounds like your thinking pretty clearly. Also, if you do have your shit together and are a high value male, or plan on being one, you can marry a 25 year old in 10 years from now. Or maybe even later if you want to put off having kids longer and have good income and health.

[–]Ricky4690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just bail man. Tell her you do not want to be married. My guess is you'll be calling her bluff.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Marriage = relationship insurance, for life, for her. She is facing a win win situation here. If you marry her, she keeps the relationship with the leverage that if she gets bored she can leave and take your stuff. Or she can leave now and find some other chump who will marry her.

If she leaves now, she doesn't get to take your stuff. Don't let her take your stuff

[–]thedonuts3520 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Goodbye ho!

[–]stephcurrythrowaway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I might get married to a girl after dating 5 years with no real issues. But that's just me.

Here however she gave you an ultimatum to pressure you. She'd rather be married even to some bum than be with you. She value marriage and the wedding but not something that actually has value like the relationship.

Just next her. Let her fuck up her life

[–]deepfunXOXO0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And then? She’ll bring up a second, third, fourth ultimatum anytime you won’t do what she wants. Deeper commitment? A marriage is just a contract. I do think there a reason to do so but in your case it sounds that you will regret it in near future.

[–]flapjacksrbetter-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

U guys can be together. Do the wedding ceremony but not legally married.

Or u can get married and do the prenup shit.

Orrr u yeet outta there

[–]TeamLitten-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm gonna be honest, I've never been in a situation nearly as close as this one as I'm still only 16 but, I don't think this is the place you should be going for advice on something as life changing as this. These other commenters don't know what you've been through with this girl and honestly don't know your situation. A lot of them could just be telling you to "walk" because thats whats in the "Red Pill Handbook". I'm not telling you to marry her. I'm telling you that this is a decision that you have to make by yourself. A life changing decision that you have to fully trust your gut and commit to. Pick the choice that YOU want, that YOUR most happy, then you'll know if its right or not. Whether you marry her or not, I wish the best for you and hope that you trust your gut and your most happy with whatever you choose. Good luck brother.

Edit: Personally, if this was me I wouldn't get married (too many risks in marriage and women in this day and age. Bitches truly ain't shit) but, this isn't me. Its you. Your choice my dude.

Edit 2: Okay, by going through some of the comments and reading I think you should NOT marry her. I know that I said it was your choice and I sound hella hypocritical right now but, its too risky imo.

[–]Eldudearino89-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Simply tell her there is the door (In a nice way) if that's not what she wants, and just see if she is bluffing or not. Even if she goes to try to triangulate you then you knew where you stood at that point.

[–]ramfex21-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m not in a MGTOW sub to argue with women and feminists!

[–]omega_dawg93-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

she's determined enough to issue an ultimatum, but not woman enough to ask HIM to marry her.

tell her to get on her knees... no, not to give a bj, but to ask you to marry her.

if she wants marriage THAT bad, she'll risk being formally rejected.

*i'll wait right here for OP to tell us how that scenario goes...



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