Why is Jordan Peterson looked down by TRPs?

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April 3, 2019
38 upvotes

Honestly curious. When I say "looked down on", I mean why is there a general dislike or disagreement with his views in TRP? I am not wording this right but I hope you understand what I am referring to.


Post Information
Title Why is Jordan Peterson looked down by TRPs?
Author SoulRedemption
Upvotes 38
Comments 74
Date 03 April 2019 09:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/224239
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/b9413u/why_is_jordan_peterson_looked_down_by_trps/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 100 points101 points  (12 children) | Copy

People who are outspokenly against him in TRP focus on about 10 percent of what he says that they disagree with (which they should disagree with imo) instead of the other 90 percent that's more or less in line with what TRP suggests.

These are people who tend to view things as more black and white instead of having any sense of nuance whatsoever. They think you have to take 100 percent of what someone says or completely reject everything they have to say outright.

[–]redvelvet_oreo20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

Something that is more evident with younger people of this generation I notice.

[–]EvolvedVirus12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Gray is gone in this world. People are complex and people keep judging others with a single-filter view.

Nuance and subtleness are always tossed aside these days. Vaguery and short quips/insults are hailed -- while specificity and detail is picked apart and attacked.

This is not a good sign for society. It should be the opposite.

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is usually the case, at least a saying more of us or others say as we get older.

I have noticed that this does occur in TRP from time to time but then again, to each his own.

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

However, I have also seen some older users and vetted ones stand on the side of the fence where is he not seen too favourably, at all maybe.

[–]GameOnSpot11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. Totally

[–]SimplyFishOil2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep it's everywhere. I've been down voted to hell for recommending his one book

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I suppose I have not dug deeper on him but the bit I've read about him or seen (videos) makes me believe he has something to offer. In the sense, I wouldn't go as far as to talk about his ideologies but his skills in conversation and communication from what I've picked so far is good. Not holding him to high regards overall but picking up tips on his debating/conversing skills have been good.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I remember reading this post when it was published and other than a few other posts relating to JBP, this particular post was in the back of my mind (and always have been) when I asked this question on this forum.

This post itself is very interesting and the viewpoint as well. Especially the last part of it.

While I can see where it's coming from I always wondered if there is a line that is drawn in favour of comradery. Not negating the fact consequences should not be ignored, but none the less. I see a slight paradox there but it'll be interesting to discuss it and see other viewpoints on that.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The main problem with Peterson basically boils down to the fact that with all the knowledge he possesses about women, he actually doesn't know shit about them, because he has an ncount of one and believes in unicorns.

he should have read http://archive.is/yxzC1

[–]FederalAnxiety75 points76 points  (26 children) | Copy

Because he advocates for traditional marriage but won't acknowledge that A. it's suicide for men and B. modern women aren't capable of pair bonding. He won't admit that the societal standards that upheld marriage are no longer there.

[–]FirstLastMan32 points33 points  (20 children) | Copy

Exactly

JP has an absolute faith that "fixing" the world is to fix yourself, when that's done, have a family-- the idea being that your "goodness" should only propagate into the world when it can contribute positively to it.

This, in my opinion, is a fantasy-like interpretation of the world where a grand narrative can be achieved. TRP tends to lean towards "Enjoy the decline", in that, feminists have permafucked everything and there's no turning back.

Still fix yourself, just... Don't get married. Please.

[–]zyk0s16 points17 points  (17 children) | Copy

He’s right that a man is better off with a family, and he is right you should get married before having a family. The problem is... men can’t get married anymore. A necessary feature of marriage is the “til death do us part” portion, the availability of no fault divorce removes that component and makes marriage impossible. Everyone calls it marriage still, but it is a different institution altogether, just like online movie purchases and purchasing a physical book are similar looking but fundamentally different concepts. So instead of saying “don’t get married”, we should tell people “you can’t get married, don’t let people sell you that thing they call marriage as the real deal”.

[–]FirstLastMan12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy

the availability of no fault divorce removes that component and makes marriage impossible.

Bang on. Right after it happened to me, my three closest friends got engaged. I always supported them, but in my head I was thinking, "Fucking hell guys..."

70+% of divorces are filed by Women. Like you said, no fault is just maybe tilted in one direction?

[–]FederalAnxiety10 points11 points  (9 children) | Copy

I'm pretty sure it's 80%

[–]I_Dont_Type11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

Which is just insane considering how difficult women can be to live with. Men should be the ones filing the divorces lol

[–]SeamusAwl9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men should be abstaining from marriage. Then they dont have to worry about getting divorce raped.

[–]EvolvedVirus6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

What happens is that men find a way to adapt and deal with living with her, and things stabilize and then she gets bored and finds a way to cause drama or finds a new guy to branchswing and boom divorce. Women used to adapt too, but nowadays, there is a trend of women advising other women "girrrl, you should get a divorce and get half dat moneeeyyy."

No one really knows what women's endgoals are, she is driven by a disease called estrogen causing moods.

[–]SeasonedRP2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've seen many marriages like this. The men adapt and deal with it, whereas the wives get bored and cause drama. Whether they end up divorced or not, many of these women branchswing and get involved with other men.

[–]EvolvedVirus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah it's bizarre and fucked up.

[–]EvolvedVirus5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

But this is not Jordan Peterson's fault...

First of all, not all marriages do end up in divorce (so happy marriages do in fact exist; it's just hard and difficult to find sometimes, which is why TRP doesn't recommend. That doesn't mean we hate Jordan Peterson for his view on this topic).

Second, most of this marriage/divorce insanity in the West, is changes to the divorce courts and its lawbooks that happened since the 70s.

If you fixed the divorce laws, maybe made it more like Scandinavia, traditional marriage might make a proper comeback in the West. A powerful prenup can definitely help (even if it's not a guarantee).

Yes I definitely still say DO NOT get married in the West but if some smarter lawyers, legislators, and legal scholars start fighting for marriage to be restored again to be "what you go into it with is what you come out" then it might make sense again.

We as TRPers need to do more to fight this and much of what Jordan Peterson says is definitely Red-pilled. So I think FederalAnxiety, you should at least clarify your original comment that we don't hate Jordan Peterson unless you really are disliking him just on the basis of one or two disagreements.

[–]FederalAnxiety1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's not his fault but he's doing a disservice to his Petersonians when he says "go get married, it's amazing" but doesn't mention 50% will lose everything from it.

Most of his followers will not know any better and will just think "oh, the problem is me"

[–]EvolvedVirus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Jordan is a psychiatrist and therapist. He has spoken to many women who are married and many men who are married. I think that he may not be warning enough about the dangers of divorce, but let's not pretend that there aren't happy marriages and that it isn't possible for a very smart man to get out of it without a huge problem.

I'm not entirely sure it's sensible to expect Peterson who has a successful marriage, to know every single detail about divorce or divorce law either. Perhaps in his therapies he's heard stories of men who overcome that divorce and not lose everything.

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is more along my line of thought.

[–]SeamusAwl6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Marriage is tilted in one direction, because of no fault divorce.

A man can end up losing up to 80% of his salary, with zero return on the whim of his wife.

Your wife assaults you, you go to jail.

Your wife lies about you, you go to jail.

She completely ruins your capacity to earn a living doing such things. And then you cannot pay her spousal/child support. So you are stuck in a cycle you cannot get out of. And the courts do not care, because you are a male.

That is why TRP advocates for not getting married. Even still, marriage is a great thing. But the risk is not worth it for a man.

[–]forsaken_in_the_dark0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It is going to get worse, because voters only can choose from blue pilled white knights or bat shit crazy feminists. Anyone remotely different is getting crucified.

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think there should also be a focus on challenging these divorce/marital laws in the west?

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm assuming this is relating to a particular country (western) perhaps. Is there a way for us to find out the legit cases of divorces where it makes sense a woman filed for it?

Also how many cases where the woman didn't get anything or minimal compared to divorce raping a man?

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ultimately shouldn't the option of marriage be given as a choice to whomever wishes?

For me it's always been a bit of a contradictory statement about marriage. Surely, if you go into the ocean in a boat the sailor should know the consequences. Shouldn't that be the bottom line instead of "don't go sail in the ocean" ?

[–]ProofPear6[🍰] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

a man is better off with a family

Do you have any evidence to back that claim up? I've seen none.

Any such claim is always based on epidemiological data which only shows a correlation. Of course it would, women don't date losers.

[–]FederalAnxiety3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well put. He truly believes the solution lies within men. He thinks gender relations are turning to shit because men are checking out of society, if only men would fix themselves everything would be fine. In reality men are checking out because society because gender relations have done to shit and women are fucking broken.

Ironically the actual solution does lie within men, but he spends the other half of his time condemning anyone who figures out what it is.

[–]faustian_talos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Please everyone do not follow advice about not getting married.

Having a family should be one of your priorities.

But someone a lot of people I meet from North America tend to ignore the family thing.

I am from Eastern Europe so I do not know why. I have never visited USA or Canada.

[–]redvelvet_oreo9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

IMO JP talks about Marriage alot because its what worked in the past and held society together. After watching alot of his videos and interviews and reading his book I dont actually think he advocates this solution to modern day society. He mentions it alot on how that worked for society for a very long time while linking it back to Christianity in a way. He does say people should be more faithful to each other, help your family and then help your community but if you pay attention to any of his interviews he always says he doesn't have the answer. He can identify the problem but doesn't have the answer for the post modern world. We just know what use to work and modern day culture is not working and diving people.

TRP gives the tools to survive in this post modern day era. TRP also gives us the tools to survive a relationship and a Marriage. TRP is alot of things. Enjoying the decline is a way of using TRP but IMO its not the only thing you can do with it. I have played both sides of the coin in terms of being Chad for a short period and now still currently in a LTR. Both were only achievable after learning TRP. Being a Red Pilled man only helps women in the long run. They need you more then people care to admit.

My issue with enjoying the decline is that at some point it becomes aimless. A Core part of TRP is to have purpose and its a core element that JP outlines in his book. Especially for men. Without out purpose we spiral downwards. So you can be Chad and be Rich and never be married but at what point does it have no point? Imagine your rich and chad at 30. Whats the aim for the next 30 - 40 years of your life?

[–]Odawg2250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This should be the top comment.

[–]jackandjill221 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jordan Peterson doesnt agree with "Enjoy the decline" he expects young men to pick up the slack of a broken society.

[–]SoulRedemption[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting, thanks for breaking it down to two points.

[–]Shieldless_One14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy

I think you’re wrong in that most people here look down on him. I see a lot of people either quoting him or referencing him here and on trp. Some people just have a hard time grasping the views of someone who is not totally “into” the trp.

[–]NikeSigma235 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jordan Peterson is a visionary. He is not looked down upon by the majority of RPers. He helps build a framework for getting your shit together. For myself, I attribute a lot of my growth to his lectures. He's a good man and the world needs more people like him.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Tradcons do not give a shit about your welfare, your quality of life, or your very existence. They are just fighting with feminists over who gets to hold your leash.

[–]HenricusKunrath2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

One aspect of what might be occuring:

Jordan Peterson is deeply influenced by the Russian philosopher and novelist Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

One of the biggest ideas Dostoyevsky tried to convey his whole life is the idea that we can instill goodness in others and spead benificence throughout the world.

It all starts with yourself. Become a good man. Then spread this goodness to other men and women. They will spead the kindness you showed them to others and the world will improve.

It is a truly beautiful idea, and admittedly I have not done it justice summarizing it here. For the original explaination of these ideas read The Idiot, particularly the part containing Ippolit's "Necessary Explaination". Also The Brothers Karamazov contains perhaps the best elements of this idea.

Anyway, on TRP we take a very negitive view of human nature. Men here have seen the worst of women, and some have seen the worst of men.

All this talk of instilling goodness and starting with yourself seems stupid, academic, and idealistic when compared with the deeply harsh reality described by RP philosophy.

Keep in mind, this is only one contributing factor.

[–]faustian_talos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow, refreshing to see someone of culture and real knowledge in TRP.

[–]dudeamax1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m married, met my wife when she was 16 I was 20. Took her virginity and have been together now for going on 13 years we have a 9 year old daughter. We have been through everything imaginable.... that’s how I landed here reading Rollo’s books looking for answers. Got those answers turned things around but it’s still knowing she could go feral at any point in time.

I’m going to two of my cousins weddings this summer and it’s like looking at pigs heading to the slaughter house. Good luck, I wouldn’t recommend marriage for any guy at all.

Jordan Peterson seems like a good guy and is helping pull guys heads out but is pretty delusional and blue pill when it comes to the realities of women. I did enjoy his book and he has done a lot to spread awareness of what feminism has done but he is missing a pretty important aspect that’s destroying men.

[–]BPasFuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This question gets asked a lot. I'm going to repost my last comment on the subject, which, in aggregate with some of the replies here should give you some idea.

*Jordan Peterson is walking a careful line.

A line that runs between orthodoxy, and heresy.

Honestly, coming from out of the unbelievably cucked wastes of Canadian higher education, I think it's amazing how close he manages to come to meeting a lot of Redpill expectations.

It would not surprise me if he is even closer than he publicly seems, but is choosing to moderate himself to some degree, just to avoid easy dismissal.

I think many of us forget sometimes, just how 'out there' or 'dangerous' what is being preached here truly seems.

For a refresher, just go and visit The Blue Pill, or Two X or some other mainpage sub and say something like, 'I don't think women are wonderful!' and see what happens.

Tempting as it is to cut him some slack, because of this, one also must realize how frustrating it must be to see a bunch of newbies show up here spouting Peterson's thoughts as though their own, as if he is a redpill authority.

He is not. He's his own thing. With some worthy ideas. And some not so in touch ones.*

Adding to this-- you have to realize, Peterson can only get so real. If he got any realer, he'd never be heard. As it is, he makes a nice stepping stone for getting people to open their stupid eyes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

He tells men to "clean their room". Have you seen his daughter? Clearly he is incapable of cleaning his own room. This makes him a massive hypocrite.

Plus he expects you to pay massive amounts of money to listen to him blather on about nothing.

[–]surethingjanet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’d say his pre-glory lectures you can easily find on youtube remain the true value.

Because, sure, scrolling his twitter or listening to anything his daughter has to say ain’t gonna convince you he’s worthy of any interest.

And of course he’s a hypocrite. Like absolutely everyone is when it’s about money. He literally admitted it though : « Yes, I’m an evil capitalist and I certain am making a lot of money ».

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Surface level JBP:

  • Promotes individual responsibility
  • Focus on what you can control
  • Generally cogent pushback against SJWism

Scratch the surface...

  • Admitted that he won't acknowledge group differences because it would damage his career
  • Cucked super-hard on the Kavanaugh issue
  • Is extremely money-driven

On the deepest level...

  • Promotes the Classic Liberal idea of Individualism, the philosophy which essentially cucked the West and sent us down a self-destructive path.
  • Is actually a Leftist, who warns other Leftists to tone down the rhetoric, lest they wake up the Right.

So, he does a lot of good for a lot of people, but ultimately, if you care about the survival of the West, he's a false prophet.

[–]faustian_talos0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If you think Individualism is something that destroyed the West you should live in collectivist countries like Russia and China and see how that works out for you.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Individualism is great when you have a high-IQ, homogenous population. Individualism did absolutely nothing to prepare the West for a massive influx of collectivized, hostile outgroups. The time for Individualism is past; the reality of a multicultural democracy will force us to collectivize.

We're not going to have the Libertarian paradise in our lifetimes, now we have to fight for the survival of the West.

[–]TheBadGoy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He takes basement dwellers and soyboys in hopes of turning them into fully functioning betas willing to marry

[–]FlyingSexistPig0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I would argue that there's no consensus.

There's a lot of his stuff that I don't agree with, but a lot of his stuff is spot on.

[–]TheStumblingWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't agree with everything he says, but I think the man is a genius none the less.

[–]DANYboy520 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If he wasn't so famous people wouldn't talk as much shit. Intellectuals, myself included, hate feeling inferior.

[–]CainPrice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Tradcon-ism, including Peterson's variety, is just one more version of the just world fallacy.

If you work hard and become the best you that you can be, handle your shit, and dutifully do your part in the world, your woman may still screw you over. She still doesn't love you the way you love her and cares only about her comfort. Your boss still doesn't care about you, only the money you make for him. Your friends still aren't really friends. And your kids still grow up thinking you're an idiot and misbehaving.

Doing your part for society doesn't fix society. It doesn't even result in a decent life for you. Tradcons don't tell you to do what works for you and will lead to success. They tell you to do what you're supposed to do, then take pride in the fact that you did your part.

You can make your bed every morning and wear manly suits, vote republican, and hold a respectable job. But when someone who doesn't do any of that walks out the door an meets sex partners every weekend while you wonder why nobody notices your virtue, it's because that guy is actually masculine. You're just conservative.

The fact that guys are so thirsty for mentors and gurus to tell them how to be a man is a sign of how lost today's men are.

[–]humzy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

psychology aside, jordan peterson is only good for the incels and guys at the bottom of the barrel

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anybody who's looking down on JP either is isn't really listening or is to pathetic to 'clean thier room'.

[–]BurnoutRS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Listen to JBP insofar as he tells you to clean your room, your anxiety and depression is largely a product of you assessing yourself as unfit for the environment you reside in, etc.

Where you might want to stop listening is when he begins speaking about world solutions as if we still live in the 50s.

The hate for JBP is in part a product of some older members not wanting younger members to do what younger members do. Which is to glom, immediately, onto a figure like JBP and begin worshipping his word as gospel.

Imagine there were two math teachers. Both are equally qualified and will make you into a math whiz. The only difference is that by the end of Teacher Jim's lessons, he drills a little hole in your skull that makes it so you can only ever solve problems involving numbers lesser than 3 digits.

Clean your room, lift, become a monster, get your life in order and then.... Serve it up nice on a big platter to an immendable millenial woman

[–]i_love_chicks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Jordan Peterson is a charlatan who is manipulating young men for his own gain. He spews a bunch of bullshit and puts his hand on his head pretending to be in deep thought. Look up a guy named Vox Day on youtube. He goes in great detail about who JBP really is.

[–]HansCapon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Peterson speaks a lot of truths and things that need to be said. What puts him at odds with TRP sometimes is his devotion to monogamy and the traditional family structure. I think we can all agree that having a traditional monogamous structure is superior to the current hypergamous one, but Peterson is either optimistic or ignorant to the state of the modern woman. However, someone should still be preaching what should be, even if we may never get to that state again.

Essentially TRP is “riding the tiger” and playing along/gaming the current system, while Peterson is actively resisting and clinging on to the old system.

[–]Psychological_Radish0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Once you get past his charisma and intellectual veneer, Peterson doesn't really have much of substance to say. His book - which I've read - revolves around the cult of the individual...which we know is completely disconnected from the scientific reality that people are tribal, social animals. Peterson's prescription for young men basically comes down to "building a better Beta" as Rollo likes to say, which is the complete antithesis of the Red Pill.

In his personal life, Peterson married his childhood ONEitis from a shitty town just as his star was rising. Look up pictures of them together - she never looks happy. His daughter is also an Instagram whore and an unwed single mommy in her early 20s. It goes without saying that Peterson might appear Alpha in the media, but is clearly a huge Beta at home. That's the kind of life that following the Peterson way ultimately leads to.

[–]faustian_talos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because they do not understand that younger people need a mentor in their lives.

Times are not like before, when oldschool TRP veterans grew up and they do not understand this.

Two more things:

  1. JBP is a clinical psychologist and understands that people are different from each other. Something TRP does not understand.
  2. TRP is about accepting and enjoying the decline. Pathetic and nihilist. JBP is opposite.

This is what I grasped, and I only visit this sub few times a month.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because he's a tradcon.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Personally I don't think he really says anything too substantial in his work.

[–]coloredzebra-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When he talks purely about psychology he's not too bad. Anything other than that is complete verbal diarrhea, and pushing an agenda, which caters to a certain audience.

[–]kemchik-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bacause when's the last time Coca Cola have looked up to Pepsi?

[–]riggedved-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

For me personally, I dont think Jordan Peterson's ideology is original. He's milking knowledge of the Vedas and the Bhadwadgita.

[–]deltron80-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jordan Peterson is a globohomo gatekeeper - don't believe his lies



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