Average, how easy is it to cross into the 20%?

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April 18, 2019

I’m talking more in terms of red pill behaviour than anything else. That can include gym and working out.

AF behaviour seems kind of rare. I see it but mostly inconsistently on the guys who have any AF behaviour. It’s more commonly they are situational alphas. Or they will be assholes or have AF behaviour but then be needy or BP af in many other contexts.

Displaying Res Pill behaviour, just how easy is it to cross into that 20%?

Post Information
Title Average, how easy is it to cross into the 20%?
Author Just1515
Upvotes 80
Comments 72
Date 18 April 2019 07:50 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/226795
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/bepwlc/average_how_easy_is_it_to_cross_into_the_20/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
alphathe red pill

[–]TheRedPillRipper138 points139 points  (21 children) | Copy

how easy is it

How easy is it to bench 220 for reps? How easy it to go big game fishing? How easy is to keep your home clean and organised? How easy is it u/Just1515 for you to get laid?

For the majority; it’s not easy at all. That, however is a good thing. As you learn these things; as you learn to master new skills; you don’t have to display alpha traits; because you have internalised them.

Focus not on the display of alpha traits u/Just1515; but on making them second nature. That I guarantee will make cracking the top 20% seem like a walk in the park.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]1FixYourselfFirst46 points47 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. Too many people focus on how to act Alpha. Once you are Alpha, you just be yourself.

[–]VigilantSmartbomb15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hijacking top comment.

Raising my SMV and some chicks from high school that were extreemeellyyyy 9 probably 10 just added me on facebook and just idk thank you red pill! Progress. Just upping my pool in general is cool

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are no 10's

[–]TheRedPillRipper10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nice. Wait till random strippers start adding you. Then banging you.

[–]thesnowman172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got chopped in the mall by some strippers. I was eating some apps in the food court and they both came on either said of me an and said what up. They both said my friend thinks ur cute and then got playfully mad at eachother.

They were slightly to ratchet for me and was gonna meet my girl in 20 minutes so I wasn’t feeling it. Aesthetically they were on point tho, probably 8 out of 10 with very nice asses I took the opportunity to tease them and try a couple red pill techniques that worked. One of them started laughing and said “ahaha this mans dissing bro” however they were both wearing Jordan’s and Nike sweatpants so it kind of made me feel like at my age and phase in life(26, they seemed like 19 yr olds from the hood) there would be nothing to talk about. I like urban girls but they were next level. I just said this was fun but I gotta make moves and they were shocked that I wasn’t super excited that they were talking to me. Anyways if I could have convinced them to smash that night it would have been totally worth it but I didn’t think it was plausible.

I think trp helped me cause I always pay attention to my body language (head held high, shoulders back, etc) and dress nice if I’m going to be somewhere other than my neighborhood. I also been pumping iron for 2 years and I’m not jacked but I look in shape and strong like I play basketball or something.

In case anyone’s curious , the tease was she told me she’s feeling my air forces and then she said she rocks Jordan’s as beaters but when she goes out she wears red bottoms, and I said whoa sorry ms fly girl, then when she told me she’s a stripper I said saying that’s how u got them red bottoms. She started laughing and said this mans dissing bro( from toronto that’s how ratchets talk.)

[–]Aggressive_Beta-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Benching 220 doesn’t mean shit. The only thing that matters is how much you can bench as a % of your weight

[–]TheRedPillRipper1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The point is figurative. u/Agressive_Beta and u/bigboxguy both of you are right but have missed the point.

220 for reps doesn’t mean shit if you don’t know how to throw down. Or read and correctly interpret a contract. Or have a discerning taste in vino.

My point is its what you master that matters.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]bigboxguy-3 points-2 points  (13 children) | Copy

Benching 220 for reps doesn’t put you in the top 20% of men. No one outside you or your gym bros gives a fuck.

[–]antichrist_redpill3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy

You are so wrong. The ability to bench 220 for reps is going to show in your appearance. Its not about the skill to do it per se.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Depending on age and your face, you can get away with benching less. I’m 5’9” and max out at about 210 bench one-rep, and I’ve never been doing better with chicks in my life. I am, however, 21 years old, so I guess the expectations for me are lower and by time I’m 22 I will be doing that.

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

And you think if you gained more muscle and benched 250 for reps, you wouldn't do any better?

[–]bigboxguy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He’d do the same.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Maybe long-term, but at least short-term, I could not have had a better last couple months. In the last two weeks I've gained three new plates in addition to my main girl. Main girl is HB8, one plate is HB6 but nice, another plate is literally a model type HB9, and the other is bisexual and HB8. These are also really the only girls I've even gamed recently, and I got them all lol. Also have yet another HB7 coming over Monday night. Could I do better? I guess so. But honestly I am not really interested in doing better than the tear I've been on lately--I am more focused on building career prospects, etc. If I never improved from where I am at right now, I would die a happy man lol. And that's not to brag--I used to be a huge beta, I am just happy with where I am right now.

[–]bigboxguy-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who cares

[–]bigboxguy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

No one cares how much you bench. If you’re ugly or average looking, no amount of lifting will compensate for this. Never talk about the gym around women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Agree and disagree. I do have one friend who used to be skinny and really average looking as well as only 5'7". His max bench is now 350, and he's just fucking yolked. He's considered really attractive now, and his face no longer looks just average either. It CAN help, but yes, genetics are important. Barring extreme bodily improvements, genetics are more important.

[–]bigboxguy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some people like get lucky and get “face gains” from lifting. Others looks bloated.

[–]TheRedPillRipper0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

True. Though at least 125 random TRP readers agreed with something I said. Maybe u/bigboxguy that was my point.

[–]bigboxguy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That’s cuz they cope thinking lift and holding frame will put them in the top 20% of men

[–]TheRedPillRipper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

True. Mastering those two variables however will get them closer.

[–]thesnowman170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think he meant that the same way it puts you in the top 20 percent of lifters that’s kind of the same level of difficulty. It takes work and time but it’s possible for anyone

[–]CainPrice61 points62 points  (7 children) | Copy

You're asking the wrong question. Because what you really want isn't "to cross into the 20%". What you really want is to be respected by men and women, have friends, and be able to have casual sex the majority of the time when you want it.

You'll be better off if you separate your actual goals from all of this internet manosphere academic mumbo jumbo. It's not about being part of this percent of men versus that percent of men, or about becoming an 8/10 when you're a 6/10 or anything like that. It's about getting yourself from a place where you're not getting laid as often or as well as you'd like to a place where you're a guy that fucks.

If you get obsessed with this internet idea of becoming some kind of perfect "top 20%" man who has the perfect body from years at the gym, a billionaire job, does all the right hobbies, knows how to do all kinds of useful things, is a finely honed social aficionado, and has a harem of 20 women at any given time, you'll talk yourself into sitting around lifting weights in "monk mode" for years instead of just going out and getting laid like a normal person.

To transition from a guy who can't get laid to a guy who can, you just need to look decent, have social skills, and talk to 1000 women until you're not weird and off around them any more. It's not about executing some kind of gimmicky "AF" behavior you read about on the internet. That will come just from interacting with women and being confident instead of being worried about screwing it up and never, ever getting laid. Just work out, dress okay, and talk to girls until it's not weird for you, and you'll be 90% of the way there to being fuckable.

[–]RStonePT9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great advice which I needed rn. Focus on the process until you get results. I may have thought it a 1000 times, you need to get to a particular mind space in order to accept knowledge, and have someone else say it and say it right. You keep building, you start from a foundation and don't stop, before long you'll have a mansion. Wish I could give you gold, you contributed value, I hope someone else does.

It can be so easy to get sucked into the manosphere jargon of thinking, so much of which has been co-opted by the incel community, of thinking in black and white and absolutes. Once you've swallowed the pill and come to terms with it, it's important to unplug from the internet of unplugging and go and live your life, putting it into practice in real terms. To not have your life defined by this. It doesn't mean your goals will change, because you've learnt a lot, but it's an important change in mindset.

[–]Just1515[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Solid post. I agree mostly, this is good for anyone who ends up here from google. However the question im asking is really about just how beta most guys are i suppose. Like the threshold of what is considered AF and arousing to women. Just how uncommon is it among the hordes of blue pill conditioned men. Situational alphas aside.

I ask because i see around me and hear from others and it seems like BP behaviour like neediness jealousy and shit is so normal. No amount of money or job status makes up for it

[–]CainPrice17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

So what you're saying is:

"Fuck you, CainPrice. Fuck you for saying that I need to focus on a concrete goal instead of academic mental masturbation. Although you answered the question I asked with a very practical approach, the real question I wanted answered is more mental masturbation and internet academic bullshit about theoretical male demographics."

Well, fuck you, too.

[–]Just1515[S] -5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lmao. You’re on the money. I already agree with what you wrote as the practical take away. The manosphere is very theoretical at times, but this indeed is another one of those discussions which i am interested in here.

Thanks for .your contribution, definitely reminded me of an important thing or two. The problem with some writers like Rollo is certainly in the lack of tangible practical take aways, but often it is just as important, especially if you are to fully internalise Red Pill concepts.

In this world, i think it is extremely important to know your enemy, or, know the boundaries of your competition. It is a matter of leverage

[–]NabroleonBonaparte2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Looking at your competition is beta as fuck.

You’re not asking anyone for advice, you’re asking everyone to tell you you’re special and better than others because you’re insecure.

You literally have one job, walk TRP path.

Don’t over-think/speak.

[–]TheRedPillRipper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

know your enemy

Practically speaking u/Just1515; are you in competition with the bottom 80%?

a matter of leverage

I’ll be the first to advocate leveraging relationships to get what you want. I would suggest though focusing on the top dogs; ingratiating yourself into those networks and then levering those relationships to your benefit.

This is because practically speaking it’s more productive to target the one person who leads as opposed to the four people who follow.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]resnine20 points21 points  (8 children) | Copy

Apparently it's quite easy from what most people on here say on here about crossing over into the top20%. The hard part is crossing into the top10% and the super elite top5%.

It's because look around you and you'll see most guys aren't even trying nowadays. They are fat, low status, poor, no game, no sense of style or fashion. That's why with a little work passing into the top20% is relatively easy.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

The hard part is crossing into the top10% and the super elite top5%.

Took me almost a decade.

[–]resnine4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

How'd you do it?

[–]Project_Zero_Betas8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

Lots of lifting and reading. Girls value guys with self-awareness and intellectual curiosity (and sense of humor). Fancy that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Girls value guys with self-awareness and intellectual curiosity (and sense of humor). Fancy that.


[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's true! I ain't no Brad or Ryan looks-wise.

[–]resnine0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What books?

Noticing a lot of the issues I have with women are a result of not having enough self-awareness or even knowing who I am. Like identity issues, not certain of who I am, like I don't have a defined personality. I'm just sort of like a walking void, nothing inside. I feel like a shell. Like how are women suppose to get to know me if there is nothing there to get to know.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What books?

A ton of history, polisci, economics, finance, philosophy, law, and psychology. I'd dabble in the hard sciences but I'm not good at math, unfortunately.

Noticing a lot of the issues I have with women are a result of not having enough self-awareness or even knowing who I am. Like identity issues, not certain of who I am, like I don't have a defined personality. I'm just sort of like a walking void, nothing inside. I feel like a shell. Like how are women suppose to get to know me if there is nothing there to get to know.

Honestly wish I could help, but truth be told I've always been the way I currently am. Just that as I got older I realized how much further ahead I was of others and it multiplied my confidence ten-fold upon this realization. The wonders of the markets :-)

[–]clickherebaby0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel you man. You're not alone. And you're probably younger than me

[–]Willkuer_11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

80/20 is typically referred to when talking about visibility. A top 20% guy is visible to most at least low tier girls just by appearance without any interaction. That doesn’t mean he can get laid anytime and that doesn’t mean he’s going to fuck top tier girls.

If top20% means you get low tier girls rather easily top10% means you get average girls relatively easy. When you start to become top5% the real fun starts.

Top20% means in average you find four guys around you that are superficially below your level.

Top10% already requires 9 guys and top5% 19 guys.

Top20% is easy. The other stuff needs real dedication.

Hypergamy pays off the best of us.

[–]LiftOrGTF028 points29 points  (21 children) | Copy

Just look around you next time you're at your campus, town etc. That's your "competition". Pathetic, right?

[–]1900_year_old_vampire19 points20 points  (3 children) | Copy

this is my thought as well. another thing i have noticed though, is i also find myself looking around at other men, and thinking 'even if he acted exactly the way i act, it wouldnt work for him'

not sure why. im attractive but im not out of this world or anything. but i try to imagine these guys treating women the way i do, and i just cant see it working for them the way it works for me. makes me second guess the way i give advice on this sub. i want to lift everyone up, but i think the truth is if you're like 5'5 or you have a shitty jawline or a giant forehead or a greasy head or a wirey frame or any number of other things, you're actually just hyperfucked. if i was a chick id laugh in your fuckin face if you tried to treat me like your slut. sad but true

[–]resnine11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of things are fixable nowadays unless you are the elephant man or something. Short? get lifts, giant forehead get mess hair/bangs, greasy hair? shave it off, wirey frame? bulk and lift like your life depends on it.

The problem is most guys just give up and don't try. Especially not with porn, video games, and all kindsa different media sources. It actually makes things much easier for the guys who even put in the slightest amount of effort.

[–]mountainbiker1783 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's very true. OP should not despair though. Every man should always be improving, until they're dead.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy

SO pathetic.

[–]Vikingcel3 points4 points  (15 children) | Copy

Honestly, where do you all live that the competition is pathetic?

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy

Long Island. Beta central.

[–]Vikingcel2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy

Oh, 'Murica.

Here, fat guys are actually rare. Most guys have defined jawlines.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

It's not necessarily physical appearances, I'm not exactly an Adonis myself. Just that no one wants to lift AND read in the same day. They think being an illiterate mook is a virtue. Sad.

[–]Vikingcel5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

Just that no one wants to lift AND read in the same day

I should be getting mad puss then

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

It helps if your Goodreads list is a known public document ;-)

[–]Vikingcel0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Link me your list

[–]Project_Zero_Betas-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

It's under my real name, don't want to dox myself. But it's basically about 500 books of history, polisci, economics, finance, law, philosophy, and psychology [would include a lot of "hard" science but I no math :-( ]

[–]resnine0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You've gotta be rich af to live there.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nah that's only the Gold Coast.

[–]LifeMaxx3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Largely depends on your genetic potential.

I'm 6'4" (top 1% height), white (11%) and have 900ng/dl of test (~top 20% natural testosterone). All I had to do was work out, have low body fat and dress nice to be top 5% (based on tinder match rates).

If you're below average height, ethnic or have naturally low test you're going to have to do more to catch up. Truth is not everyone here will be top 20%. The good news is most guys aren't even thinking about this sort of thing.

[–]clickherebaby0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 6 4 white, get compared to Leonardo DiCaprio, and work out. My tinder rate is so fucking bad, and I have professionally done photos on there.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

just how easy is it to cross into that 20%?

If it were easy than everyone would do it.

[–]0io-1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's very simple but it's not easy.

Diet is probably 70%, lifting is 20%, and the remaining 10% is fixing your personality.

The closer you are already, the easier it will be. If you're 6'3", selfish, and 20 pounds overweight and dress like a dork you just have to lose 20 pounds and stop dressing like a dork.

The further away you are now, the more work you will have to put in.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m 6’2 and weigh 208 pounds. Thanks bro

[–]plumtomatoe0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why do you think selfishness is valuable?

[–]0io-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Selfishness in men a core trait that women are attracted to. Basic red pill.

[–]Lawojin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why ask how easy it is. Would you rather not become the 20% if it was hard?

I think you're asking the wrong question here.

First I would ask what benefit would being in the top 20% be. Since you're here I assume you already know. Where is your "why"

Now on to how -> sidebar

Final phase is "be".

[–]bigboxguy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s not as easy as everyone tells you here. There’s a lot guys like my housemate who have no game, no drive in life outside of school and 0 fucks given who crush 95% of guys.

That’s genetics and life. Some guys will never be in the top 20%.

[–]ProtrudingEarCel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

just search this sub for the answer.

[–]Bruchibre0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's all about the sample.

[–]Nov516050 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

top 20% pareto is all encompassing - all shits gotta be hittin otherwise, not top 20%

[–]Eatslikeshit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or just slam your dick on the dinner table.

[–]latinasonly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

easy as fuck . be able to act assertively and honestly with 80% of people and your in. grow some decent balls and you dont even need to be in shape or good looking or have money to be top 20%.

[–]FOMM230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It depends on your starting point and your genetics tbh. If you're a fat, balding manlet in a shitty job, it's likely you be tough.

For me (I'd consider myself comfortably top 20% for my age), I was already above average height (5'11 so 6'1 on dating sites), ok looking, slim and academically successful (seriously shit dress sense, style and frame though). In 2 years I'm now earning more than 90% of my peers, funny as fuck with decent frame (working on it), good style acknowledged by others, and 165lbs at 8%bf with 100kg bench (plenty to go still, but over half way there and very clearly lift and get compliments on body weekly).

It took 2 years of decent commitment to get here and may take others longer, but most guys aren't even trying!!

[–]its_meKnightSwolaire-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Easy even for a short guy

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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