A lesbian feminist writer once disguised herself as a man for 18 months to write a book on gender. After the experiment, she was institutionalized for depression, and stated that she never felt so glad for being a woman.
This book pops up on here every six months or so. I read it awhile back, absolutely great read. She wrote it during her time in the institution from her diary she kept during her "experiment". Against her editors wish's she wrote about her experiences without any modification, meaning she didn't go back and alter / sugar coat her memories to reflect political correctness. She wrote things exactly as she experienced them, often without even knowing what she was writing.
The best part of this book isn't what she says, but what she doesn't. You can actually see her mind starting to crack and the forming of a split personality. Her pseudo male persona, Ned, had started deeply resenting her original female persona and the prejudices it held. "He" started developing self destructive thoughts and tendencies, wanting to punish himself for the attitudes and assumptions he held as Norah. Ned started loathing feminists and to an extent all women. Basically he entered into the "anger" phase after being forcibly fed the red pill.
You can even see her attraction to the strong stoic "alpha" male in the part where she's in a men's support group. That's the phase that really broke her, seeing other men's suffering and then relating to it and entering into a sympathetic mindset. She kinda saw her former self as the pretentious monster it was, and well we all know the kinds of crazy a women's mind enters when it's forced to acknowledge the consequences of their own actions.
If I didn't have a different book lined up this would be next on my list. Your insight/review made me prioritize this book over a lot of others though.
Good post. It really sheds light into the solopsic phenomenon where women genuinely think they have it harder than men, until they actually realize what it's like to be a man. Men tend to hold it all inside so it's hard for them to see the stresses and pressures men actually go through. You really can't blame them personally for that, as it's a societal issue.
A, Self Made Man, never gets old (seriously, a recommendation should go to the sidebar). I wanted to open a thread with some of the choicest paragraphs, but didn't get so far except one excerpt about dating (post wall) women. Here it is:
[...] But for those women - who had never dated other women, and thus never been romantially hurt by them - men as a subspecies, not the particular men with whom they had been involved, were to blame for the wreck of a relationship and the psychic damage it had done to them.
It's hardly surprising, then, that in this atmosphere, as a single man dating women, I often felt attacked, judged, on the defensive. Whereas with the men I met and befriended as Ned there was a presumption of innocence - that is, you're a good guy until you prove otherwise - with women there was quite often a presumption of guilt: you're a cad like every other guy until you prove otherwise.
"Pass my test and then we'll see if you're worthy of me" was the implicit message coming across the table at me. And this from women who had demonstrably little to offer. "Be lighthearted," they said, though buoyant as lead zeppelins themselves. "Be kind," they insisted in the harshest of tones. "Don't be like others," they implied, while having virtually condemned me as such beforehand.
The bitterest women I met were usually in their midthirties or older. They'd been through the mill a bit and they'd probably had more than their share of hellish dates or hit-and-run relationships before I came along. To hear them tell it, the pool of eligible, mature, stable, reciprocating, emotionally evolved men out there was small and polluted, and having to wade through it when what you wanted most in life was to settle down and start a family would be enough to shorten anyone's fuse.
Then again, many of the women I met weren't emotional giants either, nor were they particularly well adjusted or stable. They just considered themselves as such. And even the ones who knew they were damaged seemed to feel entitled to expect stolidity from a man, as if, in the time-honored way of things, a man is supposed to be strong, to hold things together for a woman, to hold her up when she can't do it herself.
And this coming from a lesbian who happens to be a feminist.
Actually sounds really interesting, I've just ordered her book.
Edit: just had a look at some reviews on Amazon, I normally like to form my own views before doing that. All the 1 star reviews are angry feminists, pissed off that she is empathising and seeing the world from a male prospective. Which is of course the whole point of the book. Pretty funny. I'm looking forward to reading it now.
It's a great book. I decided to buy it after seeing her on the Colbert Report. There's a few things that she didn't twig on and still looked at through a female perspective, but for the most part she got it.
Of course - because then their insane self-centric world view would be challenged and exposed as horseshit. Ignorant people always hate when someone tries to actually shed some light on their beliefs.
LOL, they basically call her a misogynist and out the women she dated as mentally ill. Also the nice wall of text saying her experiment sucks because she went into it without a strong bias favoring feminism.
I never got my membership :-( My female colleague accused me a couple of times for having gone to "naked men's only sauna meetings" where I had allegedly been talking business with company executives in a way that would gain me as a man. I tried to explain that I hadn't been on any "sauna meetings". Not with anyone at the company for that matter.
Vincent's first act as a newly minted male was to join a quintessential bastion of camaraderie -- a men's bowling team in a working-class Pennsylvania neighborhood. The only problem: She's a terrible bowler. But the men didn't boot her off the team. "It's an amazing thing, because I think that shows you the generosity that they had," she said. Her experience with these men turned some of her long-held perceptions about men being harsh and rejecting and women being warm and welcoming upside down. "I mean, it was just the most wonderful rush to get these guys' handshakes, and I felt comfortable, I mean as comfortable as I could feel, right away. They just took me in ... no questions asked," she said. The team bowled together for nine months and gradually Vincent gained entrance to their inner sanctum. She found that all the cussing and good-natured ribbing is just how men often show affection for one another.
"We don't have to do the part where you cross the room and you go up to a stranger that you've never met in the middle of a room full of people and say the first words. And those first words are so hard to say without sounding like a cheeseball or sounding like a jerk." Vincent encountered some pretty cold shoulders in her attempts at the bar, but she did manage to go on about 30 dates with women as "Ned," mostly arranging them on the Internet. Vincent said the dates were rarely fun and that the pressure of "Ned" having to prove himself was grueling. She was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man. "My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said.
And probably the best of all
"Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have, but they don't have it better," she said. "They need our sympathy. They need our love, and maybe they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together." Ironically, Vincent said, it took experiencing life as a man for her to appreciate being a woman. "I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."
"With all due respect, she's an idiot." -Moderate Feminist
11 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
"With all due respect" is like telling that you're going to take a dump on someone, but it's okay, because you said those magic words "With all due respect".
They couldn't give a fuck. They're just out for more money. Being able to divorce rape a guy, and having far easier white collar jobs that pay the same as STEM isn't enough for them.
They pretty much DID see it when the book first came out because it made quite a splash. They wrote off Vincent and exiled her from the feminist movement.
That would explain why hardly anybody's ever heard of it. I should just email the head of the social studies department of the school I went to and ask why this book isn't in the curriculum but a ton of extreme-feminist left-wing insanity trash is. Bet I don't get an answer.
Boooommmm baby!!! I love being a dude.. Bring on the shit!
72 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
I've seen feminists comment on this book with stuff like "She's just one woman and doesn't count" or "She hung out with guys who were creeps/losers that don't represent men"
So she spent time with what amounts to 80%+ of all men. Creep and loser is guaranteed to mean any guy who is not found to be attractive and dares to exist in such a way that a woman notices him.
The tendency of women to think that beta men do not exist. To be unable to perceive beta's even when they are friends with them. To only see alpha men, and hence think all men are alpha's.
Eg:
"where are all the good men?"
"She hung out with guys who were creeps/losers that don't represent men"
The vast majority of all the people in the world (or nation) are LOSERS. We can't all be winners. For every winner, there are numerous also-rans who are the losers of the world. The feminists just can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to how strong their apex fallacy is.
A man doing the same thing would be a great trp experiment. Just like women about men, we have a lot of assumptions on what it is like to be a woman. But actual knowledge from first hand experience would be an invaluable tool.
Imagine a woman reading that book and using what she has learned to fulfill her needs. Now imagine what you could do with that kind of information.
Easy, just pose online as a woman. It's retarded, it even works in an environment where your actual gender isn't clear, like an MMO.
A friend of mine played a female Elf in WoW and was dumbfunded how much more considerate strangers treated him despite him never actually saying whether he was male or female in real life. Of course one may argue that gaming nerds are the worst when it comes to showering women with attention, but don't forget guys like that also exist in real life. And now imagine how things would be if you were an actual woman.
(though I guess the constant being hit on when you know that you are weaker than 98% of all guys who approach you and could easily be forced into compliance in a lawless setting can both get on your nerves and be quite stressful at the same time)
I did this back in the infancy of MMOs. I got a free trial for everquest and made a female character. Back then people were naive and thought female = female. A group of regulars started hanging around me, eager to give advice. There was a gerenal atmosphere of enthusiasm.
I can see why women enjoy having orbiters, it is like being a mini celebrity.
A friend of mine played a female Elf in WoW and was dumbfunded how much more considerate strangers treated him despite him never actually saying whether he was male or female in real life.
This is very true. I just finished leveling a female BE Pally to 90 and the amount of times I received unsolicited "help" and was followed by other people was crazy. Before leveling the Pally I leveled a male Undead Lock to 90 and received no unwanted help.
-1 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
you know that you are weaker than 98% of all guys who approach you and could easily be forced into compliance in a lawless setting
Damn, good thing we dont know what thats like being a pretty female in America!
They have voice training, and don't underestimate what someone can emulate when they want it enough were removing their dick sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
I've met a couple who look and sound like women, one I met sounded like a chronic smoker until he wanted to sound like a woman and then he could've been a gloriously well trafficked phone sex worker, it was trippy.
Im not talking about liking or disliking it, im talking of making an experiment of what it is like to live as the other gender. Then write a book about it.
2 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
The problem with this is it's hard for a man to pass a woman. The best you'd get is people thinking you are a 'tranny.'
I feel that with men, they suffer silently because they don't want to burden anyone with their own shit (at least it's this way for me). Women NEED people to lean on though, that's why they go in herds or look for a strong man who can deal with his and her shit.
Well... there you have it. The reason that females can't empathize with us is because if they spent even a small amount of time walking a mile in our shoes, they'd go insane.
In the words of one of the Manosphere's greatest commenters... lolzozlozlozlzolzozlozlzolzolzozlzlozlzlzlozlolozlozlozlozlozlzolzozlozzlzlzlozlozlozozolzlolzozlololzolzolzozlozlozlzolzozolzozlzozzzozozozlolololz
There exists a level of philosophy that is so deep, so core to human existence, that it can only be expressed through the vernacular of a 13-year-old girl's texts.
The feminine butthext matrix has you. LOZZLOZLOLZLOLZZLOZOZZZZ
Smart woman sucker stupid men into promoting her book
-20 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
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19 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Id like to walk a mile in a 23 year old white woman's shoes. Aside from the minor discomfort, i imagine that it would be quite pleasant being the center of attention, being showered with resources and having men willing to literally die to keep me safe from harm.
Not that many men would harm me, because I'm fucking cute and they want to bang me! Life is so hard!
-4 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
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6 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
This wonderful, logical conclusion you've made is only half believable in a universe where you're a really hot girl, which most girls arent.
Bullshit. Even ugly girls have men who jump to their defense and want to fuck them because they're beta males and society cares about female safety.
You are seriously deluded if you believe life is like that for any woman out there.
Really? Have you stepped outside anytime in the last 100 years?
Get out of the circle jerk for a moment and go and see that life isn't like that for almost anyone, with the exception of a FEW people, who are just as privileged as any white man born into the right family.
You don't know shit. Responding to you is probably a waste of my time.
7 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Wrong place, wrong time, friend. Edit: Nevermind we wouldn't be friends.
18 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Did she have anything to say about work? My experience is that men at work have higher expectations; it would be interested to see if she noted a change in work place treatment instead of man retreats, bowling, and the cloister.
Didn't know this was predominantly a male field. It's one area I've noticed women to be quite strong in, depends on the industry but they're good at reeling men into a sale through being personal. Even as a warehouse manager, 75% of sales pitches I get for general work equipment is from women.
No, but that's because it's not the type of job where you could make that type of comparison, the workplace harassment stuff that feminists usually complain about would be a non-issue because you spend very little time with coworkers, and when you do it's for a pep-talk. She just talked about her experience, and it reflected what I found doing that kind of work.
0 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
So not really, no. It would have been interesting for her to do REAL men's work. (in the sense that no women do it) Like construction, or garbage collector, or something along those lines.
I've got a female friend who did construction work. 100% male rounded to 3 sig figs doesn't mean no women do it. She was a pro-MMA fighter previously though, so she was a significant outlier. You can't expect a woman, with a normal woman's body, to do work that requires the musculature of a man for this kind of project - it would have ended on day 1 with a workplace injury.
Bought the book, fantastic read. I recommend it. Norah is one intelligent cookie.
27 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
I think most women would find this the same.
As a female their life is ironed out, if their personality or humour isn't that great they get given a pass on it. They get cheered for even the most minor of compliments.
Men don't get these things. We are shaped in battle and forced to improve.
As a female their life is ironed out, if their personality or humour isn't that great they get given a pass on it.
That only really counts for attractive and average women. Uglies and fatties are basically treated like guys from what I've seen. A land whale with a shit personality is disliked by everyone. The only pass they get is the ability to get laid at 2am whenever they feel like by someone that's going to never call.
17 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
They're treated like men, and they HATE IT, so they "want to be treated like equals" aka treated like men, so they turn into feminists. Stupid fucking cunts.
Not really. They're being fed misinformation about what they should eat to stay fit. Interesting thing is Asians in North America have much lower obesity rates - they also tend to ignore advice on eating healthy and eat what they've always eaten, despite the fact that it's supposed to be horrible.
You've got fat people who do cardio for a couple hours every day at the gym, eat lots of fruits and veggies, and have a low fat diet and get absolutely nowhere. They're putting effort in, but it's the wrong effort because they've been given the wrong information.
Europeans are much better off, the only health food that exists here is organic food. Otherwise it's the same as what you'd otherwise eat, and organic food is basically just the food that we were eating up to 60 years ago.
Fat shaming also screws them up, because the only way they get any acceptance is if they're obviously making the "right" effort, so they're afraid to switch from the diet and exercise plan that they're told will work, because if progress is remotely slow, they'll get harassed. Leave them alone and they'd have the opportunity to experiment with some less approved diets (but ones that obviously work well in other parts of the world) and actually make some progress.
It starts with portion control and cutting high calorie foods/drinks from their diet, it's that simple,
So incredibly wrong, just like there's a red pill to swallow when it comes to women, there's a red pill to swallow when it comes to diet - you haven't. People from countries that completely ignore this belief are very slim.
otherwise gastric bypass surgery wouldn't be so effective
It isn't, people get it and still stay fat.
The problem is being in North America and listening to the stupid advice that is given out, by people such as yourself.
Europeans simply don't have this problem. Calories aren't even a thing here - you'll meet plenty of people who don't even know what they are. We don't do portion control. We eat however much we want. There are people who have more fat than average on them, but those who are truly fat are incredibly rare, and their fatness isn't from their diet because it's exactly the same as everyone else's.
We don't have a trick, we just eat the same stuff that we've been eating for centuries. What Americans eat is so far removed from our diet it's barely recognisable. All the supposed health food that they eat is what's making them fat.
I read this book before. It's very fascinating and was quite insightful. It's mostly written in a storytelling tone, so it's not like a rigorous study akin to A Billion Wicked Thoughts, but it's very insightful none the less.
Shouldn't be that surprising since trans women outnumber trans men by around 3:1 even though there's about as many genderqueer men as genderqueer women.
And trans women make up the bulk of 'transphobia' victims (I put it in scare quotes because they're actually victims of misandry). Trans men rarely state that they feel unsafe, but they're always worried for their TW friends.
I have met a fair few transmen (men who became women) and even manly cross dressers, and you're talking out your fucking ass. These people feel just as unsafe, maybe more so, because they stick out, and many men have no problem with beating up a man.
26 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
You've got it flipped. A transman is a woman to man.
But patriarchy! All men are a part of the elite, the Illuminati, the Rothchilds, and we make $1m a second and have sex with a different 18 year old every day.
I think she used depression as an excuse to do research on mental health institutions and write another book
-9 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Lol.. Just the title alone tells everyone what dudes go thru.. She gets institutionalized.. We rise above the shit.. A couple screws might be loose Lol.. But we rise!!!!... (300 scream)
I am just glad a woman took the initiative to actually experience our perspective. Getting therapy after thr experience isnt surprising. In all fairness, we have been comditioned our whole lives for these pressures while little girls are always reassured it will just "be okay" and they are raised like little girls. They arent told to quit being a bitch. Most of them dont learn how to suck it up until much later in their life, if ever, than boys.
So again, it is not surprising to me that after zero training the pressures that men face did a number on her mental health for a bit.
12 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Dude fuck yeah!.. It was already expected of her to crack.. In her own negligence she stupidly decided to do this.. That's that lezbo thought "if I dress like a man and act like a man.. I am a man".. Fuck no.. Sweetheart.. Sit down.
The world was built on our own backs. That's some fuckin shit right there.
With the high suicide rates with males being known.. Before doing her project wouldn't she wonder why?
Being thrown to the wolves and made to fend for ourselves is our life. I'm proud of that
That what masturbation is for. Its like the pressure release valve on to of a pressure cooker.
-9 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
Her institutionalization was a result of having to live a complete lie about who she was for 18 months and being cut off from the normal life she knew. It can't be taken as an example of how hard men have and how women can't hack it as men.
Trannies are attempting to satisfy their sense of gender identity. They are attempting to be honest about who they feel they are. The author is not doing that. She has embodies an identity that is not her own and in doing so had restricted herself from satisfying her own sense of identity for 18 months.
Mentally unstable and ill individuals with sever identity issues
They may be liars but that label doesn't come close to encompassing the mental disease that is believing you can be another gender than what you actually are.
People don't like to think for themselves when they don't have to, we're conditioned to fall in with the pack. You should realize that just because you're on a "red pill" forum doesn't mean that everyone here (or even a terribly large portion of the people) actually accepts and applies the ideologies that the group presents itself as embodying.
Most people just want to belong to a group and so they will regurgitate ideas and emulate popular acts so that they appear to belong (both to themselves and to others). They never actually internalize the message or even analyze whether their own beliefs and goals line up with the group's because the ideology, the entire concept of having goals and beliefs is not what is important, the belonging is what matters.
I don't know where they've been, but I don't smell them in your post. I'm not talking about the girl in OP's video, i'm talking about something else. Read before you try to trash talk
Why is it a complete lie? She dated women before in her normal life, then she dated women in the experiment. She was going for people she honestly desired the whole time. The only thing that had to change was her appearance. Then as she discovered, her demeanor as well. You know, the thing that every man has to change and/or maintain to attract a female. Since feminists claim that there is no biological difference between male and female brains, such changes should not be burdensome to her in the slightest. Yet this was obviously not the case.
You are right, have an upvote. For those who read the story and didn't get that, god, learn reading. It might even have been she got depressed due to the fact she "became" a man, but it's not what the article states.
-23 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
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6 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago
"Hate in your heart will destroy you too"- Will Smith.
I do agree that their lives are extremely easy in comparison but I still disagree with the above statement. This is not how humans work. Every one of us, every single one is worried about something in their life. Regardless of our circumstances.
Women have what we badly want... access to unlimited high quality sexual partners. However to them, that is now of no value. What they want is eternal love from such a high value partner and that is no easier for them to get.
Is TRP supposed to be about how being a man is awesome and teaches men to embrace their masculinity or is it supposed to be a pity party where everybody whines and cries about how hard men have it?
Because if its a pity party, count me out. I love being a man and I think the only people that get screwed by being a man are idiots that don't understand the legal system and dudes that buy into feminist logic like "whoever is the biggest victim wins" and "blame your problems on society/the government/anybody but yourself."
Is TRP supposed to be about how being a man is awesome and teaches men to embrace their masculinity or is it supposed to be a pity party where everybody whines and cries about how hard men have it?
The book is interesting because it shows how many pieces of RP observations you'll find in there and how many RP conclusions even a lesbian feminist may draw if she's just open-minded and lucid enough to face reality.
You can't really fault men who were ignorant of the ways of reality, they may simply not have been told otherwise. Some are genuinely stupid and hold on despite being informed, but many others couldn't have known better.
Posts like this highlight the institutionalized unfairness in the system. That's not to say that we should then wallow in our misery, only that it's wise to be aware of what's out there.
Recognizing unfairness is the best way to ensure you're not screwed over by it.
Ouran high school host club relatedly is the best show ever. I mean the show does expire mens issues with any specific depth but if helped me as go guy to watch the show. The main character a girl who is seen as guy feels like a necessary handshake between the genders. Women are the ones who seen as cute and pretty but the main character dressed as a man is constantly looked at by other characters male and female as being cute and pretty while looking like a guy That's precious to me.
I read that book. It's too bad she just isn't very good of a writer and not very insightful either because the experiment she undertook was absolutely priceless and if only she had been a better writer it could have maybe have had a bigger impact on the literary world than it did.
This book pops up on here every six months or so. I read it awhile back, absolutely great read. She wrote it during her time in the institution from her diary she kept during her "experiment". Against her editors wish's she wrote about her experiences without any modification, meaning she didn't go back and alter / sugar coat her memories to reflect political correctness. She wrote things exactly as she experienced them, often without even knowing what she was writing.
The best part of this book isn't what she says, but what she doesn't. You can actually see her mind starting to crack and the forming of a split personality. Her pseudo male persona, Ned, had started deeply resenting her original female persona and the prejudices it held. "He" started developing self destructive thoughts and tendencies, wanting to punish himself for the attitudes and assumptions he held as Norah. Ned started loathing feminists and to an extent all women. Basically he entered into the "anger" phase after being forcibly fed the red pill.
You can even see her attraction to the strong stoic "alpha" male in the part where she's in a men's support group. That's the phase that really broke her, seeing other men's suffering and then relating to it and entering into a sympathetic mindset. She kinda saw her former self as the pretentious monster it was, and well we all know the kinds of crazy a women's mind enters when it's forced to acknowledge the consequences of their own actions.
You should be endorsed if your opinions are consistently this insightful.
♂
If I didn't have a different book lined up this would be next on my list. Your insight/review made me prioritize this book over a lot of others though.
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Can't wait to read this masterpiece
♂
Good post. It really sheds light into the solopsic phenomenon where women genuinely think they have it harder than men, until they actually realize what it's like to be a man. Men tend to hold it all inside so it's hard for them to see the stresses and pressures men actually go through. You really can't blame them personally for that, as it's a societal issue.
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/trplurker by trpSenator. [History]
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A, Self Made Man, never gets old (seriously, a recommendation should go to the sidebar). I wanted to open a thread with some of the choicest paragraphs, but didn't get so far except one excerpt about dating (post wall) women. Here it is:
And this coming from a lesbian who happens to be a feminist.
She just described the Red Pill.
Guess why I quoted exactly these paragraphs?
Her writing is good. Might have to pick it up.
http://youtu.be/Ip7kP_dd6LU
Actually sounds really interesting, I've just ordered her book.
Edit: just had a look at some reviews on Amazon, I normally like to form my own views before doing that. All the 1 star reviews are angry feminists, pissed off that she is empathising and seeing the world from a male prospective. Which is of course the whole point of the book. Pretty funny. I'm looking forward to reading it now.
The more a feminist hates something the more i'm willing to bet i'll like it.
Well, they clearly hate the truth, so there's potential.
women's anger is the weathervane of truth
Bras.... Feminists hate bras... Which i fully agree with
It's a great book. I decided to buy it after seeing her on the Colbert Report. There's a few things that she didn't twig on and still looked at through a female perspective, but for the most part she got it.
Of course - because then their insane self-centric world view would be challenged and exposed as horseshit. Ignorant people always hate when someone tries to actually shed some light on their beliefs.
http://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/product-reviews/0143038702/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#reviews-container?sortBy=recent&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=one_star
LOL, they basically call her a misogynist and out the women she dated as mentally ill. Also the nice wall of text saying her experiment sucks because she went into it without a strong bias favoring feminism.
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Vincent didn't just write a book based on other people's experiences, she actually put her own assumptions and beliefs to the test.
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Damn. This was very refreshing to watch. Thanks for sharing. I wish more women saw this.
I didn't know she'd actually published a book about the experiment. Title?
It's the 3rd to 5th word in the second paragraph of the linked Wikipedia article. You are welcome.
Thank you, I saw the OP contained a YouTube link, so I missed the actual content and presumed that was what he was linking.
Whoops. Looks like we forgot to give her the Patriarchy Membership Card, which unlocks all the perks of being male.
Oh man free draft beer for life.
Oh wait, draft. Damn that's not beer is it.
Wat? Draft is better than bottled.
He's talking about the draft for the military.
Oh. Straight over my head. Lol.
Did someone say Miller Draft?
I never got my membership :-( My female colleague accused me a couple of times for having gone to "naked men's only sauna meetings" where I had allegedly been talking business with company executives in a way that would gain me as a man. I tried to explain that I hadn't been on any "sauna meetings". Not with anyone at the company for that matter.
Should've invited her to the sauna. She's clearly been working a naked sweaty powerful men sauna fantasy, and you're in it :P
TIL about naked men's only sauna meetings that give men an unfair upper hand in business.
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This article (cited in the Wikipedia article) goes a little more in-depth and it's very honest and telling:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainment/story?id=1526982&singlePage=true
And probably the best of all
Maybe women should check their privilege.
I so badly want the entire feminist movement to see this.
As if it would make an iota of difference to their solipsism.
True. They would just tune it out. They can't even here the truth, they are so convinced that they're right.
They would rationalize it away in half a heartbeat.
"With all due respect, she's an idiot." -Moderate Feminist
"With all due respect" is like telling that you're going to take a dump on someone, but it's okay, because you said those magic words "With all due respect".
You mean hamster it away. Anyway thanks OP for bringing this to light, its actually given me a good smile to see examples of women 'getting' it.
"rationalize" here meaning "obscene vitriolic rant"
They couldn't give a fuck. They're just out for more money. Being able to divorce rape a guy, and having far easier white collar jobs that pay the same as STEM isn't enough for them.
They pretty much DID see it when the book first came out because it made quite a splash. They wrote off Vincent and exiled her from the feminist movement.
That would explain why hardly anybody's ever heard of it. I should just email the head of the social studies department of the school I went to and ask why this book isn't in the curriculum but a ton of extreme-feminist left-wing insanity trash is. Bet I don't get an answer.
WE GOT A RUNNER! SHUT IT DOWN!
Boooommmm baby!!! I love being a dude.. Bring on the shit!
I've seen feminists comment on this book with stuff like "She's just one woman and doesn't count" or "She hung out with guys who were creeps/losers that don't represent men"
:/
So she spent time with what amounts to 80%+ of all men. Creep and loser is guaranteed to mean any guy who is not found to be attractive and dares to exist in such a way that a woman notices him.
wow. what a wonderful way to say it.
Guys, get this. Crazy idea but... It's almost as if... to women, there's like... A peak for quality of men, say something like... 20%?
Like, they only ever pay attention to that part, and most other men are invisible... Let's call it something like... Hypergamy?
No no no... That would be insane!
Alpha goggles / Beta filter
The tendency of women to think that beta men do not exist. To be unable to perceive beta's even when they are friends with them. To only see alpha men, and hence think all men are alpha's.
Eg:
"where are all the good men?"
"She hung out with guys who were creeps/losers that don't represent men"
edit: Actually that does sound better
Shouldn't this be alpha goggles?
The vast majority of all the people in the world (or nation) are LOSERS. We can't all be winners. For every winner, there are numerous also-rans who are the losers of the world. The feminists just can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to how strong their apex fallacy is.
A man doing the same thing would be a great trp experiment. Just like women about men, we have a lot of assumptions on what it is like to be a woman. But actual knowledge from first hand experience would be an invaluable tool.
Imagine a woman reading that book and using what she has learned to fulfill her needs. Now imagine what you could do with that kind of information.
Easy, just pose online as a woman. It's retarded, it even works in an environment where your actual gender isn't clear, like an MMO.
A friend of mine played a female Elf in WoW and was dumbfunded how much more considerate strangers treated him despite him never actually saying whether he was male or female in real life. Of course one may argue that gaming nerds are the worst when it comes to showering women with attention, but don't forget guys like that also exist in real life. And now imagine how things would be if you were an actual woman.
(though I guess the constant being hit on when you know that you are weaker than 98% of all guys who approach you and could easily be forced into compliance in a lawless setting can both get on your nerves and be quite stressful at the same time)
I did this back in the infancy of MMOs. I got a free trial for everquest and made a female character. Back then people were naive and thought female = female. A group of regulars started hanging around me, eager to give advice. There was a gerenal atmosphere of enthusiasm.
I can see why women enjoy having orbiters, it is like being a mini celebrity.
This is very true. I just finished leveling a female BE Pally to 90 and the amount of times I received unsolicited "help" and was followed by other people was crazy. Before leveling the Pally I leveled a male Undead Lock to 90 and received no unwanted help.
Damn, good thing we dont know what thats like being a pretty female in America!
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But no one believes they're actually women... trannies look like trannies.
Couple friends of mine are trannies and they are easily day walkers. Like "can't tell the difference" level.
in thailand.... Girls here are sometimes jealous of the ladyboys for being too hot.
Sure but what about when they open their mouth? Do you really think a male trannie can look, speak, act convincingly like a woman?
Asian ones can. I have seen plenty that are literally more attractive than most woman.
They have voice training, and don't underestimate what someone can emulate when they want it enough were removing their dick sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
I've met a couple who look and sound like women, one I met sounded like a chronic smoker until he wanted to sound like a woman and then he could've been a gloriously well trafficked phone sex worker, it was trippy.
Some can and do pass 100% as a woman.
Check out Nong Poy: https://imgur.com/EoqdRSJ
Im not talking about liking or disliking it, im talking of making an experiment of what it is like to live as the other gender. Then write a book about it.
The problem with this is it's hard for a man to pass a woman. The best you'd get is people thinking you are a 'tranny.'
Looks like the hamster got off the wheel.
Please allow me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJp1GGTCUms
I feel that with men, they suffer silently because they don't want to burden anyone with their own shit (at least it's this way for me). Women NEED people to lean on though, that's why they go in herds or look for a strong man who can deal with his and her shit.
You aren't allowed to be a burden as man.
Well... there you have it. The reason that females can't empathize with us is because if they spent even a small amount of time walking a mile in our shoes, they'd go insane.
In the words of one of the Manosphere's greatest commenters... lolzozlozlozlzolzozlozlzolzolzozlzlozlzlzlozlolozlozlozlozlozlzolzozlozzlzlzlozlozlozozolzlolzozlololzolzolzozlozlozlzolzozolzozlzozzzozozozlolololz
Somewhat unrelated but what's the go with that 'greatbooks4greatmen' person. I always thought it was a troll to make it seem like users were retarded.
Reverse troll. "Accidentally" making good points while acting retarded
It sure seems that way but once you get used to the guy you see that he is actually quite an insightful cat but he is an acquired taste
There exists a level of philosophy that is so deep, so core to human existence, that it can only be expressed through the vernacular of a 13-year-old girl's texts.
The feminine butthext matrix has you. LOZZLOZLOLZLOLZZLOZOZZZZ
Smart woman sucker stupid men into promoting her book
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Id like to walk a mile in a 23 year old white woman's shoes. Aside from the minor discomfort, i imagine that it would be quite pleasant being the center of attention, being showered with resources and having men willing to literally die to keep me safe from harm.
Oh, did i mention not having any responsibility or accountability for my actions? I could literally steal a bicycle and people would offer to help!
Not that many men would harm me, because I'm fucking cute and they want to bang me! Life is so hard!
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Bullshit. Even ugly girls have men who jump to their defense and want to fuck them because they're beta males and society cares about female safety.
Really? Have you stepped outside anytime in the last 100 years?
You don't know shit. Responding to you is probably a waste of my time.
Wrong place, wrong time, friend. Edit: Nevermind we wouldn't be friends.
Did she have anything to say about work? My experience is that men at work have higher expectations; it would be interested to see if she noted a change in work place treatment instead of man retreats, bowling, and the cloister.
In the book she does. She picked a male dominated field (commission based sales).
Didn't know this was predominantly a male field. It's one area I've noticed women to be quite strong in, depends on the industry but they're good at reeling men into a sale through being personal. Even as a warehouse manager, 75% of sales pitches I get for general work equipment is from women.
You'll see women doing jobs which are wages + commission, but they're quite rare when it's 100% commission.
And how did that go? Are my assumptions well founded?
No, but that's because it's not the type of job where you could make that type of comparison, the workplace harassment stuff that feminists usually complain about would be a non-issue because you spend very little time with coworkers, and when you do it's for a pep-talk. She just talked about her experience, and it reflected what I found doing that kind of work.
So not really, no. It would have been interesting for her to do REAL men's work. (in the sense that no women do it) Like construction, or garbage collector, or something along those lines.
I've got a female friend who did construction work. 100% male rounded to 3 sig figs doesn't mean no women do it. She was a pro-MMA fighter previously though, so she was a significant outlier. You can't expect a woman, with a normal woman's body, to do work that requires the musculature of a man for this kind of project - it would have ended on day 1 with a workplace injury.
Bought the book, fantastic read. I recommend it. Norah is one intelligent cookie.
I think most women would find this the same.
As a female their life is ironed out, if their personality or humour isn't that great they get given a pass on it. They get cheered for even the most minor of compliments.
Men don't get these things. We are shaped in battle and forced to improve.
That only really counts for attractive and average women. Uglies and fatties are basically treated like guys from what I've seen. A land whale with a shit personality is disliked by everyone. The only pass they get is the ability to get laid at 2am whenever they feel like by someone that's going to never call.
They're treated like men, and they HATE IT, so they "want to be treated like equals" aka treated like men, so they turn into feminists. Stupid fucking cunts.
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Not really. They're being fed misinformation about what they should eat to stay fit. Interesting thing is Asians in North America have much lower obesity rates - they also tend to ignore advice on eating healthy and eat what they've always eaten, despite the fact that it's supposed to be horrible.
You've got fat people who do cardio for a couple hours every day at the gym, eat lots of fruits and veggies, and have a low fat diet and get absolutely nowhere. They're putting effort in, but it's the wrong effort because they've been given the wrong information.
Europeans are much better off, the only health food that exists here is organic food. Otherwise it's the same as what you'd otherwise eat, and organic food is basically just the food that we were eating up to 60 years ago.
Fat shaming also screws them up, because the only way they get any acceptance is if they're obviously making the "right" effort, so they're afraid to switch from the diet and exercise plan that they're told will work, because if progress is remotely slow, they'll get harassed. Leave them alone and they'd have the opportunity to experiment with some less approved diets (but ones that obviously work well in other parts of the world) and actually make some progress.
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So incredibly wrong, just like there's a red pill to swallow when it comes to women, there's a red pill to swallow when it comes to diet - you haven't. People from countries that completely ignore this belief are very slim.
It isn't, people get it and still stay fat.
The problem is being in North America and listening to the stupid advice that is given out, by people such as yourself.
Europeans simply don't have this problem. Calories aren't even a thing here - you'll meet plenty of people who don't even know what they are. We don't do portion control. We eat however much we want. There are people who have more fat than average on them, but those who are truly fat are incredibly rare, and their fatness isn't from their diet because it's exactly the same as everyone else's.
We don't have a trick, we just eat the same stuff that we've been eating for centuries. What Americans eat is so far removed from our diet it's barely recognisable. All the supposed health food that they eat is what's making them fat.
Attractive woman's fb profile:
Attractive man's fb profile:
I read this book before. It's very fascinating and was quite insightful. It's mostly written in a storytelling tone, so it's not like a rigorous study akin to A Billion Wicked Thoughts, but it's very insightful none the less.
Shouldn't be that surprising since trans women outnumber trans men by around 3:1 even though there's about as many genderqueer men as genderqueer women.
What the fuck are these words?
And trans women make up the bulk of 'transphobia' victims (I put it in scare quotes because they're actually victims of misandry). Trans men rarely state that they feel unsafe, but they're always worried for their TW friends.
I have met a fair few transmen (men who became women) and even manly cross dressers, and you're talking out your fucking ass. These people feel just as unsafe, maybe more so, because they stick out, and many men have no problem with beating up a man.
You've got it flipped. A transman is a woman to man.
Trans men are women who became men, not men who became women. You have your definitions backwards.
LOL Shit, my bad. That's why your statement looked retarded to me. All good.
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Wow, thanks for posting this. I'm pretty tempted to read Voluntary Madness just to see what parts of being a man drove her into the hospitals and why.
But patriarchy! All men are a part of the elite, the Illuminati, the Rothchilds, and we make $1m a second and have sex with a different 18 year old every day.
Very good on her to do that. Many feminists wouldn't even consider doing this, let alone doing it for 18 months.!
Let's just go with all, since she's the only one who has done it.
I think she used depression as an excuse to do research on mental health institutions and write another book
Lol.. Just the title alone tells everyone what dudes go thru.. She gets institutionalized.. We rise above the shit.. A couple screws might be loose Lol.. But we rise!!!!... (300 scream)
I am just glad a woman took the initiative to actually experience our perspective. Getting therapy after thr experience isnt surprising. In all fairness, we have been comditioned our whole lives for these pressures while little girls are always reassured it will just "be okay" and they are raised like little girls. They arent told to quit being a bitch. Most of them dont learn how to suck it up until much later in their life, if ever, than boys.
So again, it is not surprising to me that after zero training the pressures that men face did a number on her mental health for a bit.
Dude fuck yeah!.. It was already expected of her to crack.. In her own negligence she stupidly decided to do this.. That's that lezbo thought "if I dress like a man and act like a man.. I am a man".. Fuck no.. Sweetheart.. Sit down.
The world was built on our own backs. That's some fuckin shit right there.
With the high suicide rates with males being known.. Before doing her project wouldn't she wonder why?
Being thrown to the wolves and made to fend for ourselves is our life. I'm proud of that
That what masturbation is for. Its like the pressure release valve on to of a pressure cooker.
Her institutionalization was a result of having to live a complete lie about who she was for 18 months and being cut off from the normal life she knew. It can't be taken as an example of how hard men have and how women can't hack it as men.
How do you describe trannies ? Liars ?
Trannies are attempting to satisfy their sense of gender identity. They are attempting to be honest about who they feel they are. The author is not doing that. She has embodies an identity that is not her own and in doing so had restricted herself from satisfying her own sense of identity for 18 months.
Mentally unstable and ill individuals with sever identity issues
They may be liars but that label doesn't come close to encompassing the mental disease that is believing you can be another gender than what you actually are.
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People don't like to think for themselves when they don't have to, we're conditioned to fall in with the pack. You should realize that just because you're on a "red pill" forum doesn't mean that everyone here (or even a terribly large portion of the people) actually accepts and applies the ideologies that the group presents itself as embodying.
Most people just want to belong to a group and so they will regurgitate ideas and emulate popular acts so that they appear to belong (both to themselves and to others). They never actually internalize the message or even analyze whether their own beliefs and goals line up with the group's because the ideology, the entire concept of having goals and beliefs is not what is important, the belonging is what matters.
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I don't know where they've been, but I don't smell them in your post. I'm not talking about the girl in OP's video, i'm talking about something else. Read before you try to trash talk
Why is it a complete lie? She dated women before in her normal life, then she dated women in the experiment. She was going for people she honestly desired the whole time. The only thing that had to change was her appearance. Then as she discovered, her demeanor as well. You know, the thing that every man has to change and/or maintain to attract a female. Since feminists claim that there is no biological difference between male and female brains, such changes should not be burdensome to her in the slightest. Yet this was obviously not the case.
That should be rather obvious.
She was given a boy's name as a nickname when she was a kid because of how tomboyish she was, and that's the identity she took on.
You are right, have an upvote. For those who read the story and didn't get that, god, learn reading. It might even have been she got depressed due to the fact she "became" a man, but it's not what the article states.
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"Hate in your heart will destroy you too"- Will Smith.
You should punch yourself in the face
laughed out loud to this lol
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I do agree that their lives are extremely easy in comparison but I still disagree with the above statement. This is not how humans work. Every one of us, every single one is worried about something in their life. Regardless of our circumstances.
Women have what we badly want... access to unlimited high quality sexual partners. However to them, that is now of no value. What they want is eternal love from such a high value partner and that is no easier for them to get.
This doesn't make sense at all.
How do you know this? You have no idea what it is like to be them no more than they have any idea of what it is like to be you.
You first.
Use your words to make a point, imbecile.
I'm confused.
Is TRP supposed to be about how being a man is awesome and teaches men to embrace their masculinity or is it supposed to be a pity party where everybody whines and cries about how hard men have it?
Because if its a pity party, count me out. I love being a man and I think the only people that get screwed by being a man are idiots that don't understand the legal system and dudes that buy into feminist logic like "whoever is the biggest victim wins" and "blame your problems on society/the government/anybody but yourself."
The book is interesting because it shows how many pieces of RP observations you'll find in there and how many RP conclusions even a lesbian feminist may draw if she's just open-minded and lucid enough to face reality.
You can't really fault men who were ignorant of the ways of reality, they may simply not have been told otherwise. Some are genuinely stupid and hold on despite being informed, but many others couldn't have known better.
Posts like this highlight the institutionalized unfairness in the system. That's not to say that we should then wallow in our misery, only that it's wise to be aware of what's out there.
Recognizing unfairness is the best way to ensure you're not screwed over by it.
I think she got depressed from the stress of being something she's not more so than actually being a man.
i thought i would never see this sentiment. i doubt a man disguising himself as a women would come out too whole either.
She's sort of a neocon IIRC
Ouran high school host club relatedly is the best show ever. I mean the show does expire mens issues with any specific depth but if helped me as go guy to watch the show. The main character a girl who is seen as guy feels like a necessary handshake between the genders. Women are the ones who seen as cute and pretty but the main character dressed as a man is constantly looked at by other characters male and female as being cute and pretty while looking like a guy That's precious to me.
Don't jump in the water if you can't swim.
I read that book. It's too bad she just isn't very good of a writer and not very insightful either because the experiment she undertook was absolutely priceless and if only she had been a better writer it could have maybe have had a bigger impact on the literary world than it did.
There's a search bar on the right. Use it.
I wouldn't have seen this had he not reposted. Thanks OP.
I didn't know this was about you
I read the book when it was new, saw when it was posted before, and still appreciate it being posted again. Suck a dick.
"I didn't know this was about you"
It's about every one of us who upvoted. You're in the minority. Get bent.