A mother's letter to today's women (x-post from /r/mensrights

[–]pk_atheist 14 points14 points14 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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She can do that. She's just likely to find it harder to accomplish setting up a family later in life. You can see that sentiment expressed by women in greater frequency these days.

I think you'll see the term "beta provider" and "cock carousel" because many men are passed up by women until women start hitting their wall towards the end of their twenties / beginning early thirties, when they're past their sexual prime and then there's the sudden urge to settle. Many men don't like having spent that decade undersexed and, given the option, go after the younger girls they can now attract (men hit their peak of attraction a decade later than women do, and their decline is slower and over another decade instead of a sharp decline). Also, men do not generally view female promiscuity as an attractive trait. Sure, men like easy sex, but they typically don't want a slut for a long term partner.

There is definitely a desire for roles that appear more traditional because many men do want to have families.

[–]Driversuz 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why is this such an ideal? Because the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. Men desire, in future wives, women who don't have a ten-year history of shallow relationships, abortions and STDs, women who are not ball-busting control freaks, and who are likely more committed to their careers than they will ever be to their families. For the mother of his children, a man wants a woman for whom the desire to BE a mother is her FIRST priority, and the primary goal of everything she does, not a "second career," after she's spent her most energetic (and her best reproductive) years, pursuing something besides motherhood. They want a women whose most important "dream" to achieve, is raising healthy, stable children. Because men who want children, want healthy, stable children. What man in his right mind would want to have a family with a woman who doesn't share his priorities? Men don't have a problem with women for whom motherhood is not a priority; men just don't want to have children with such women.

"Why not let a girl have fun and extend childhood or experience things before getting married and settling down?"

Ah. There it is: My Wants come First. Nobody is stopping any women from having an extended childhood, but choices have consequences. The guy who wants to marry a woman when she's 23, is not going to wait around ten years for her to finish "playing." Why should he? He wants a family now and she doesn't.

Did somebody tell today's young women that there's a Mr. Right on every street corner, and that there always will be, there for the taking at her convenience? Did somebody tell today's young women that men are ATTRACTED to women who make a "career" of being Strong-and-Independent?

[–]squarehouse 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I think the reason is because women are hypergamous: They always want better.

Look, you're using euphemisms: "having fun, experience life"...um, you mean sex?

Here, read this: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/five-minutes-of-alpha/

Five minutes of alpha — even worse, five minutes of alpha rejection — can fuck with the heads of even the most desirable women. And continue fucking with them years later. In comparison — if the reports are to be believed — women who divorce beta schlubs after years of marriage pretty much forget them before the ink is dry on the papers.

That's what the risk is for men getting involved with women.

Women love differently than men do, they love hypergamously. My girl loves me, and says I'm amazing. I'm not amazing, but the day she believes I'm not amazing will be the day she no longer loves me.

This isn't the way men work. As a woman, maybe you don't really understand that a man's affections don't actually work this way.

A woman will cling to her man if he's thrown in prison, if he murders, if he's fired from his job, if he cheats (and maybe especially if he cheats), if he takes reckless risks, or if he's a danger to her and child. But she will fall out of love with him the day she is convinced that he is normal.

That's basically what the "beta provider" is. It's the guy who is merely normal in her eyes, and she's good at "pretending" that she loves him, but it isn't real.

It's interesting that guys are said to have "ego problems", but women say this because they don't see what we see. Men have ego problems when they worry that they aren't good enough; women have ego problems when they worry that he isn't good enough. It's not just his own self-respect, but her respect, that he fights for.

[–]cron_nin 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Look, you're using euphemisms: "having fun, experience life"...um, you mean sex?

NO! I think that's this thing that is a common theme. Just because a woman doesn't want to get married/be in a relationship does not mean she's sleeping with every "alpha male" she can come in contact with.

When I say have fun and experience life, I mean, she's giving up a lot being in a relationship. For example, what if she wants to travel cross country to help hurricane victims? Do you think her husband/boyfriend will let her go? What if she wants to experiment with her looks and cut off all of her hair. She has to take into consideration of what her boyfriend wants.

With this logic, all the woman's life is related to her kids and her husband. All other priorities are set on the back-burner. I think about it this way. Why would a woman want to get married at 20, or earlier, and have nothing to say about her life other than: I got married and had kids?

It's different for men. Men take up a different role, having to work. I don't know why guys are in a rush to get married. I guess it has to do with the fact that they have less to lose.

[–]squarehouse 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

With this logic, all the woman's life is related to her kids and her husband.

Thing is...this doesn't come from men, it comes from women. Women make kids, family, house a priority. Men wouldn't be out there struggling to earn nearly so much money if it wasn't for women who are obsessed with the way the house looks. (Of course, we're all speaking in generalities.)

Why would a woman want to get married at 20, or earlier, and have nothing to say about her life other than: I got married and had kids?

Talk to older women sometime who have done nothing but that, and ask them if they feel fulfilled. Ask them if they have any regrets, if they wish they could have gone back and travel cross country to help hurricane victims.

Truth is, for the great majority of women, raising children is incredibly fulfilling. It's not "all I did was raise kids", you'll never hear that from women who raised kids, even with all the compromises involved. It's the grand satisfaction of the maternal instinct. Even with a mother's children are all grown up, she's still prancing around hoping for grandchildren.

I don't know why guys are in a rush to get married.

You'll hear few arguments against that here. Men are in a rush to get married due to the feminine imperative: We're taught, early on, and in movie after movie, that that's what you're supposed to do. But it's generally a losing proposition for men these days. Divorce is too easy and too common.

Men take up a different role, having to work.

Yeah...men's role is to work...for women. And women get to care about crossing the country to help hurricane victims, while the husband is working.

Too many women are frivolous even about work. Women often feel a bad conscience about working simply because they have to work, like they should be better than this. Women generally come up with some sort of story how they really love their job, that they are in reality passionate about what they do, that the job is really worthy of them, no matter what the job is.

Men, on the other hand, tend to have the perspective of grand responsibility, "I work because I'm needed." What he wants, deep down, is to be truly responsible in what he does, he desires control over the important things. He wants to be the final link in the chain, the final post in the bridge, that which brings it all together, failing which, would pull it apart.

I guess it has to do with the fact that they have less to lose.

No idea.

[–]zaferk 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]cron_nin 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Driversuz 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"all the woman's life is related to her kids and her husband. All other priorities are set on the back-burner."

Duh!!!

If raising your children isn't the single most important "priority" in your life, For God's sake, DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS! Motherhood is not a "career." It is not a "hobby," a "lifestyle", or an "experience" designed to enrich YOU. It is YOUR contribution to the future, if you choose to make that contribution. Children are human beings, not accessories.

And men have "less to lose?" On what planet? Do you think men spend their twenties building their careers and their material worth because it's fun and glamorous? They do it so that they have something of value to invest in their children. And since their children and wealth can be taken from them so easily and for so little reason, MEN HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE. All most women have to lose is their self-esteem, which is apparently more important than their children's well-being.

Jesus. H. Christ. Does ANYBODY wonder why I wrote an article critical of shallow, self absorbed, narcissistic, young women who think that "personal fulfillment" is their birthright?

[–]cron_nin 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hon, I'm not trying to ruffle feathers. I'm just looking for a conversation.

If raising your children isn't the single most important "priority" in your life, For God's sake, DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS! Motherhood is not a "career." It is not a "hobby," a "lifestyle", or an "experience" designed to enrich YOU. It is YOUR contribution to the future, if you choose to make that contribution. Children are human beings, not accessories.

This is exactly what I'm stating. It seems that this is a common idea that this is all what went. A lot of what you are stating has to do with contributing to the future generations. That's fine if you believe that, but that's not how some people live and want to operate. I believe I am worth more than the embodiment of my offspring.

Jesus. H. Christ. Does ANYBODY wonder why I wrote an article critical of shallow, self absorbed, narcissistic, young women who think that "personal fulfillment" is their birthright?

Why is it that a person does not want to have children make them shallow, self absorbed and narcissistic? And how is it bad that a person wants to live their live to the fullest? You don't feel that there is any other things you want to do rather than have children? I know that I would...

And let's see that article.

[–]Driversuz -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

" I believe I am worth more than the embodiment of my offspring."

If you choose to have offspring, they should be the most important accomplishment in your life. Therefore, a good parent really is worth VERY LITTLE more. And that used to be considered a rather high status, before feminism decided that "no woman should stay home and raise her own children." Sorry, but that's the way it has always been, and committing to that principle is why we are not extinct. The fact that this commitment is now optional, is reflected in the millions of near-feral children growing up with no direction or stability, mentally ill or at best unprepared to meet their own life needs.

" Why is it that a person does not want to have children make them shallow, self absorbed and narcissistic? "

It doesn't. The shallow, self-absorbed and narcissistic people are the ones who WANT to have children (maybe someday, after I "live" for a few years) but don't understand that children must be the number one priority in their entire lives, rather than just another "experience" to cross off one's bucket list.

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I do agree that feminism has fucked men up in this respect. And most women I've talked to about this agree. In fact, just last week I had a long conversation about this last week with my current girlfriend and she agrees wholeheartedly that we are raising a nation of wimps.

By "be yourself" I mean your true self - the one that's not ashamed to smoke cigars, drive fast cars, go to strip clubs and call bullshit when you see it. The feminist self-censoring version is not attractive.

A couple weeks ago I did a workshop with David Deida. There were several women in the audience and they were eating this up.

Edit to add: feminism taught us to be calculated as children. So when I say "let it go" I mean let go of the internal anxiety the comes when you're not behaving the way society taught you to. Game strategies can help you adopt some behaviors that create a facade, but it's not until you adopt it on a deeper level -- inner game and especially vulnerability -- that life truly becomes easy. Up to that point it often feels like a battle royale.

[–]pk_atheist2 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRP VanguardVZPurp 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

"Yourself" is strongly influenced by your environment, especially for males. I'd say as a sex we have less hardwired into ourselves except a much higher sex drive. We don't have anything innate like hypergamy. Thus, the choosing mechanism for women, they are ultimately born with. How they assess it may vary, but there's always a strong preference for a higher status male.

The converse just doesn't exist for men. If we raise a nation of wimps, that is indeed their true self. Their self can be changed, however, with great effort. Hence why information for men is spread through discourse on the internet and in publication.

We are great learning organisms. We have to be. Women don't - they are born to choose.

Game strategies can help you adopt some behaviors that create a facade, but it's not until you adopt it on a deeper level -- inner game and especially vulnerability --that life truly becomes easy.

Correct, but you have to start somewhere. Internalized success will breed confidence and improve inner game and the ability to work on vulnerability. So for many young men, and older men, Game and information on the internet is the starting point for taking their lives in a much less wimpy, more sexually desirable direction.

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Title	A mother's letter to today's women (x-post from /r/mensrights
Author	legendofpasta
Upvotes	31
Comments	69
Date	December 24, 2012 9:09 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/15e2mc/a_mothers_letter_to_todays_women_xpost_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/a-mothers-letter-to-todays-women-x-post-from.235457 https://theredarchive.com/post/235457