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Damnit - Infertility and Me

Reddit View
April 23, 2019

About 2 hours after posting OYS this week, I found out that recent attempts to get pregnant (via IVF) failed due to genetic mutations. Likely on my side - IBD treatment may cause sperm quality issues. This makes me feel shitty - since we both want more kids. And yes we're older but shouldn't have this many issues. I doubt it's my wife - she's super healthy and her tests show she's the equivalent of a 31 year old for fertility.

So my options are 1) get off the IBD treatment and wait a few months and recheck. 2) use donor sperm (I'm completely against this right now but not sure if it's my ego or what), 3) try IVF again or 4) adopt. Good news is we have some fertility insurance coverage.

What I'm pissed/feeling shit about is that it's my issue. Is this ego because ability to have children = manliness or just a sense of loss/mourning on my part? I need to figure this shit out, and needed to vent somewhere. God this life keeps kicking me in the balls (literally this time) every time I feel like I'm getting shit together.

Post Information
Title Damnit - Infertility and Me
Author LongRoad_518
Upvotes 6
Comments 39
Date 23 April 2019 07:46 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

So the off topic portion:

I'm a closed adoption as an infant. Actually had my parents lined up before I popped out.

I can only imagine how my life was 1000% better because of them and only think of my adoptive parents as my parents. The other people were just the sperm donors who had the good sense to give me up rather than keep an unwanted baby.

RP portion: But as for how you are feeling bad about it. It's really out of your control. It's a natural thing for us to tie our feelings of manliness to our virility. But keep that shit to yourself, therapist or male friends. Don't whinge to your wife about those feelz or it can fuck her perception of you because of YOUR perception of you.

Now you're not saying she's fitness or shit testing you about it, but like any other illness or issue she'll treat you like a bitch if you act like a bitch.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

But keep that shit to yourself, therapist or male friends. Don't whinge to your wife about those feelz or it can fuck her perception of you because of YOUR perception of you.

Exactly why I made the post. I'm not going to talk to my male friends or family about it. Therapist I won't see until Thursday (monthly appointment).

Thanks for your feedback on all this. You're right it's out of my control.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm as goddamn infertile as it gets. My man juices were tossed in a fire, microwaved, hit with gamma radiation, nuked, and then cursed by a voodoo priestess.

I don't give a fuck.

Granted, you wanted another kid. But I'm talking about the virility side of things. That's in your head. You received good advice, though... don't get fucking chatty.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok, I don't know your particular story, but since no one else is asking, guess I will.

Do you have your shit unfucked before you either bring another kid into the world or adopt one that needs a good, stable home? Why are you trying to have another kid if you're hanging around here?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is an excellent question and I struggled with it for awhile. We started this process months ago and I knew it would take time before having to make any real decisions on pregnancy / adoption, etc.

At this point, I can say - yes the home is stable, I'm in a good place, I don't see any plans for divorce or separation on either of our parts. If something happens or goes south, I'll deal with it and move on.

[–]RStonePT1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]helaughsinhidden2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


FWIW, my wife and I did foster care for a family friend who is on meth and has a little girl same age as our youngest. Both him and the baby momma were supposed to make a last ditch effort to get clean, get jobs, and get an apartment. They did none of those things and in fact got pregnant again. For some reason, none of her extended family wanted to step in either. When she came into our lives she was almost feral. We thought possible FASD or brain damage even. After 9 months in a stable home, she blossomed into a beautiful and well adjusted little girl with no remaining signs of any kind of disorders. Good love is what she was neglected of the most and we gave her that. To keep her with her brother who was about to come, my wife and I decided that with 5 other kids, we simply couldn't adopt both when he came so the county feverishly sought adoptive parents that were willing to take both kids. It took a while and our hearts were broken more than once as she had to say goodbye a couple times.

We learned a couple things about the foster care system that I feel compelled to share with you.

  • There are a lot of kids in need. Most of them are like us when we come to MRP, misguided, mistreated, uneducated, and feeling largely unloved.
  • The people who do foster care are both great and awful. The ones who are GREAT usually only do it once and adopt the kids. That's how it should be honestly.
  • MOST of them are career foster homes. They are great too in a way, because they made their mission to let kids who are bouncing around life, bounce in and out of their lives too. They don't bond deeply though and kids need that. So, they are both great and not.
  • Some are terrible. Honestly, if you don't like kids, why do foster care? I don't know the answer but for some f-ing reason a lot of people do it and do not bond, are not nice, and sometimes abusive.
  • There are a lot who try it to see if they are cut out for it and decide they aren't. Our little girl went into two homes that were first timers. The first treated her like getting a puppy and didn't make it two weeks. The second was a family with fertility issues and treated her like an absolute miracle gift from God. I'm getting emotional.
  • There aren't enough. Even more of the shitty ones would be good, honestly. The systems need people who will be the kind to try once to see if they can do it. They need ones who will just do emergency placements when parents go to jail or are in the hospital. They need more to be temporary for a few months when parents go to prison or treatment and are granted a second chance. They need more who will take over when parents die, give up, or should have their parental rights revoked and be sterilized.
  • ALL kids need a red pilled man as a father. A man who doesn't get butt hurt, who leads, owns his shit, handles himself, can handle a woman and kids.

If you know you can handle the potential of having your heart broken, pray about it.

[–]redwall921 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy


I could put a few in the mail for you, but I'm firing blanks already. I had my tubes cut. My feelings changed a lot. It was a decision that was in my control.

I'm not sure there's much for you other than to process your situation in the here and now and then put it behind you unless you take one of your options and plow forward. Main thing is you decide what "forward" means. Hear your wife's opinion, take it into account, but you make a decision from your frame.

Sounds like you've got your options laid out. Maybe some here will offer something else to consider. The insurance coverage opens things up. However, the open-ended nature makes this space of tension drawn out. But also, the open-ended nature makes it possible for you to keep pursuing what you want to pursue. Tension for you to feel, sit in, and then plow forward with or without.

If it's out of your control, then it's out of your control.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. Yeah I need to get over the ego hit. I have a plan... my wife is on board and we will execute it. I told her tonight flat out donor sperm is not an option and here’s what we are going to do. Talk to my GI about getting off meds for a few months, try IVF again in 3-4 months time and if that fails we will look into adoption. Having the plan and not getting into a conversation with her of “what do you think we should do” helps immensely.

[–]HerukaArisen1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

> I had my tubes cut. My feelings changed a lot. It was a decision that was in my control.

Care to elaborate a bit how your thinking changed? The reason I'm asking is that I'm currently in the process of doing this. Things should be straightforward (48, 3 kids) but I have encountered some unexpected resistance in my mind about the whole thing.

[–]redwall922 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sure, I'll elaborate. I'm 39 with five kids; my youngest is 7 now. Short answer? Imagine a world where you're 33 years old and have a 1 year old, a 4 year old, a 7 year old, a 9 year old, and a 10 year old... So, try having two more, and then maybe your feelings will match what mine were?

I always thought there were two decisions I'd never know how to make. 1) I'm ready to have kids. And 2) I'm ready to be done having kids.

1) was taken care of without my actual choice. Nature finds a (horny) way.

2) was taken care of on the feelings level basically. After three kids, I thought maybe we're done. After four kids I thought maybe we're done. After five kids I knew we were done. Took maybe a year to make it happen. The wife wasn't entirely on board. But there was no real resistance from her. And there was no internal resistance. Just got it done.

So yeah ... I understand the unexpected resistance. For me, it unexpectedly went away.

All that to say ... kids was entirely pre-RP for me. I made a virtue of letting life happen to me all along ... number of kids included. I did make a choice to stop after five. So there's an actual choice there. But as to actually driving on my path ... meh. Past me just let things happen, and that's what brought me here in the first place. The making of the kids tends to happen naturally without much effort.

[–]HerukaArisen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't even want to imagine having five kids! Three is more than enough for me. And it is definitely more than enough with this wife. I've been thinking about it for a while now and I started getting these thoughts like "What if my family dies? Would I want a new one?" and "What if I get divorced and meet someone I really want to have a child with?" I can see these thoughts are irrational, but they come nevertheless.

But as I'm writing this I now understand that these thoughts are just sneaky ways I use to keep myself passive, not having to make decisions and take responsibility. So, also in my case this comes back to making choices and then owning these choices. And I can really decide myself if I want to see the consequences of these choices good or bad.

Yeah, I'm getting my tubes cut and it will be a great thing for me. Thank you for your input!

[–]0io-Tsundere1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

If your issue might be fixable, why not spend the next 90 days dialing in your diet to go off IBD treatment (lots of psyllium fiber?) and increase sperm quality, following whatever advice the fertility experts recommend. Clomid maybe?

Then recheck your sperm quality and go IVF if you can.

There is also something called a mini IVF that's cheaper and better for wife's health that might work for your situation.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This man can get a woman pregnant even with a condom on.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This is more or less the plan. Just need to run it by the GI. Clomid didn’t move the needle on fertility. I’m convinced it’s this meds. There’s studies showing this can cause quality issues but isn’t well established a link but it appears in the small studies to be statistically significant.

I had IBD before starting and we conceived three kids with no problems. So it could be the cause or just be coincidence. Only way to find out is to go off the meds or switch to an alternative.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

How many cycles? When we did IVF they checked my boys and the doc said "holy cow your counts are awesome". The average rate then was 17% success rate then and you know what? We were successful right at the 5th time. So even with my good numbers there's a whole lot of other factors.

Sit down and get the facts. Understanding the real numbers will help you make an informed decision, not an emotional one.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My numbers where okay. And it was successful on the 2nd attempt. My oldest was born without IVF, but we had 6 cycles before stopping (and then a few months later got pregnant).

[–]WhiteNight2000 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It was a big blow when I found out I was infertile.

Many couples have to ride the rocky rollercoaster of hormone treatments, conceptions, miscarriages, etc. when overcoming infertility. For me, it was more of a dark, bottomless pit that I had to climb out of, one slow stretch at a time.

I never told my wife, but I couldn't stand the thought of her conceiving with another man's seed. Instead, we chose to anonymously adopt another couple's embryos--it circumvented the spiritual and moral reservations we had, and allowed her to have the pregnancy experience.

While her pregnancy was the catalyst to killing our bedroom, I don't regret the decision. I love those kids as if they were my own.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I have no doubt I’d love the kid as much as my biological ones. It is a roller coaster but being the oak and having her be able to have me plan what’s happening has improved our relationship.

If I hadn’t found RP six months ago I’m pretty sure we’d be on our way to divorce.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Have the doc shove his hand up your ass and check the enlarged prostrate

Or, get drunk, relax and blow a load in her and don’t let her get up and pee and all the other bulkshif excuses to be fucking busy.

Make sure you are getting enough sperm producing foods and hit the weights.

You are lifting, right ? El Fago le’ Feelings Maestro ?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Been there done that with prostrate checks. No problem with counts they’re all high. It’s the quality - speed and abnormal ones. My guess is there is DNA fragmentation which a few studies have seen evidence for on the medicine I’m on.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Infertility Groups/Adoption is one of the non-profits I'm more than happy to donate to. They do good work in a broad area that doesn't get talked about enough. Adoption is a hard and long process. Good luck.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Option 4). Take high doses of d-Aspartic Acid (daa) at the start of her period for two weeks. I am talking two 3000mg pills daily. This has been shown to improve quality sperm counts and motility. Studies done on it show that a percentage of infertile men became fertile. But it is only a temporary. That is why I suggest to just do two weeks. Go for 3 months and then take a month break.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I've been taking fish oil, CoQ10, vitamin C, vitamin D, daa, pine bark extract with little to no improvement.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes but how are you taking DAA? If you take it as an everyday supplement, then your sperm quality goes back to their normal. DAA improves sperm when taken in short cycles.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Interesting. I'll give that a shot and research it more. Thanks!

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy is a great aggregator of clinical studies on alot of supplements. There is soo much incorrect bro-science out there, it helped me cut through the bullshit. All though, for the life of me, i cannot figure out how peppermint essential oil actually works to remove muscle and joint pain. It just does.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do YOU want? Do you really want another adopted / donor sperm kid when you've already got three kids? I can't help but think this strenuous, expensive effort to have more is really about what your wife wants.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I want 1-2 more kids. My son passed away three years ago. Preferably have another boy but fine with more girls. If I didn't want more, I wouldn't be going ahead with it.

[–]nobsyoga0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm kinda of in the same situation as you. I have infertility and my wife finally got pregnant with our first and she is due in October. We did not do IVF earlier because of the cost and did not have coverage for it under our insurance. We ended up being part of a clinical trail of a new ovulation stimulation drug and were able to use ICSI to implant my lazy sperm into her egg. I had to come to the grips a one point in my life that I would never had kids and would just have to live with that. My wife and I did foster care for a while, but depending on your state, that is not the best route to adoption. Many states give priority to the bio parents and both need to have their parental right sevard in order to have the adoption finalized. Really though, like others have said, this is completely out of your control. The science of male fertility is still a hit or miss thing, so maybe you can look for an IVF treatment that does the ICSI (where they directly inject your sperm into the ovum). As far as the donor sperm, you have to be careful about that since the laws on paternal rights could always change.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the info. The good news is I had 3 kids with her... I mean one died from cancer (not genetic based). We did do ICSI and everything progressed fine until the genetic tests of the embryos. All were not viable... not even like "it will be a birth defect", it was "these are all going to miscarry".

There's a sperm DNA fragmentation test I'm going to take, that should confirm or disprove my suspicion.

[–]hibloodstevia-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Inflammatory bowel disease? That's usually not a disease that lives in your body by itself, this is an autoimmune issue and is usually clustered with multiple other inborn genetic defects. Are you sure you really want to pass this on to your child?

See, I have a little theory. Low testosterone is a problem with many men, but I'm not sure it's actually the problem and it's actually probably just a symptom of the body reducing your reproduction potential due to what it sees as defects that should not be passed along.

I'm not saying you have low testosterone, but your sperm a not work very well for a very good reason.

I would take it as a sign and adopt.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

So your theory is, his own biochemistry is self sabotaging his potential to procreate because it somehow ascertained that its in the species best interests that he do so?

I dunno bro kinda sounds retarded, goes against evolution whatev 🤷‍♂️ Hows that manifesto coming along?

[–]redwall920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hope to see some World War Z-style twists in that manifesto.

[–]hibloodstevia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cancer is the same. We will never "cure" it because it is designed to cull the herd.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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