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Why do marriages fail although women SMV declines?

Reddit View
May 1, 2019

Assuming women divorce because they have better options than their husbands, how is it that divorce is so common?

According to Rollo man's SMV goes through the roof right when marriages start to fail (mid to late 30s) while women hit the wall and should theoretically cease to have good options.

Boredom? Lost Frame? Irrationality? Unused potential of men? What do you think is the main cause of divorce from the male perspective?

Edit:: Let me condense the top answers in this thread:

1) Many men do not in fact max out their SMV.

2) Women are not rational when it comes to SMV estimation. They overestimate their own value and underestimate the risks of ending up alone.

3) Divorce laws further minimize the risks of divorce for women.

Post Information
Title Why do marriages fail although women SMV declines?
Author urbanfoh
Upvotes 124
Comments 78
Date 01 May 2019 04:44 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
Rolloframesexual market valuethe wall

[–]1FixYourselfFirst188 points189 points  (7 children) | Copy

According to Rollo man's SMV goes through the roof right when marriages start to fail (mid to late 30s)

Your SMV doesn't automatically rise as you age. Look at all the dad bods out there. Many married men let their SMV slowly decay, then wonder why their wife no longer gives unsolicited BJs.

Your potential SMV rises in your 30's. But you have to put in the work, diet, lifting, etc. Having the body of an athletic 20yo with the maturity of a 30yo is what gives you the high SMV.

[–]urbanfoh[S] 27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

That makes sense of course. Many man do not cultivate theire SMV.

Your reply implies however that a maxed out SMV is a failsave against divorce. Is that so? Or is it too naive to assume that?

[–]1FixYourselfFirst55 points56 points  (1 child) | Copy

There is no failsafe against divorce. A successful marriage is RedPill on hard mode. Too much include in a reply. There's a whole subreddit dedicated to it.

[–]thismightnotbetaken20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

A marriage under present day domestic laws is entering into a stone throwing contest while standing in the bottom of a well.

A simpler version would be, – a legal contract whereby you're handing a gun and your balls to a woman assuming she'll remain nice “till death do us apart” (or whatever). That kind of power TELLS, can corrupt anyone (all guns are loaded).

This not for the man with the point, this is for the lurkers (like me in the beginning) who want to draw in rp knowledge like a sponge. This seemed like a relevant thread.

[–]TheRedPillRipper13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women are not rational

Also women's perception of their own SMV can be grossly exaggerated from reality. Oh big beautiful woman, she's a radiant mother, love the whole toothless whore look etc.. Coupled with social media, Cougarism and the multitudes of willing beta bucks it's cyclone of psychosis.

The only SMV that matters is your own. If it's high; The SMP let's you know.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]VigilantSmartbomb0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What does SMP mean? First I've seen the acronym. Thanks!

[–]TheRedPillRipper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The Sexual Market Place It's all in the side-bar u/VigilantSmartbomb.

[–]Greaterbird9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even if something good stays the same, it stops being new and she'll get used to it. Just a worn out recording of a favorite song.

Progression is fun. Staying in place is boredom. You need the feeling of moving forward. Think of games or tv shows - they have to change things up every once in a while to stay interesting, otherwise people tire of it and move on to something else.

Edit: It's not just one constant thing all the time either. You need tension and release, periods of excitement and relaxation. It also needs randomness, as predictability is also boring, but not so random that it loses its structural framework. Women love Doctor Who - a handsome and capable man having adventures and taking a girl along for the ride, never knowing quite where things are going next.

Life with you is an alternate reality game where anything could happen and they're the every-man Wattson following around the main character and living his remarkable life secondhand.

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev89 points90 points  (3 children) | Copy

A. Guys anesthetize themselves with SportsBall and Beer, and become Jabba the Hutt.

B. Women are delusional about their own SMV - I know a guy whose wife left him (she was a "wound collector") and, while she stayed slender and kept what there was of her figure she quickly found out she was a 43 year-old single mom of 3 kids, not a 22 y.o. hottie.

All I know is, if I get tired of a girl or she gets tired of me, I get to keep ALL of my stuff, and my salary and don't wind up paying 40% of my gross to an ex-wife so she can fuck other guys and teach my kids to hate me. #WINNING.

[–]mrpoopistan17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

she quickly found out she was a 43 year-old single mom of 3 kids, not a 22 y.o. hottie.

And some women never get this point.

My oldest niece's mother-in-law has been divorced for years. The MIL was weird about hitting on me after the wedding (there's nothing like the flirtation of a woman who never had to flirt before). Then she made a point of being around for our side of the family's Christmas, and so on.

Fast forward a couple years, and she's dating a guy my age. Problem solved? Nope. She flirts with me in front of the BF, even though I have openly told her I think he's a good fit for her.

[–]CassWCD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (8 children) | Copy

Main reasons would be between or a combination of incompatability or loss of attraction (because of men losing their frame, men losing their identity to cater to their women, women wanting a more desirable man (hypergamy), shes not ready to settle down, and both parties becoming too comfortable and routine (dead bedroom).

Divorce rates are higher than ever because the system is rigged, against men and favored towards women. It allows women to divorce easier because she gets 50% money back and potential alimony. If women didn't have these benefits from divorce, they wouldn't seek for a divorce as easily.

[–]kingofclubsmorde0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not necessarily. This highly depends of a country. I live in Finland and here we have a chance to do a legal prenumptial agreement. Meaning, that one does not have to give its value to the other one, in case of a divorce. I suggest doing a prenumptial agreement before marriage,if that is possible in your country.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar29 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy

Marriage, frankly, is boring. After the rush of sex chemicals wears off, you're left with someone who shits, picks their nose, and talks about boring shit. It takes actual effort and a positive attitude to get along with the same person for the rest of your life.

But... she doesn't have to. Divorce Inc. is happy to coerce half your assets to maintain your wife's lifestyle if she gets bored of you.

If alimony/child support didn't exist, divorce would be rare.

[–]escapethesolarsystem5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with your last statement, but not the first one. Studies show women are actually happier the longer they are in a relationship, whereas men typically start to get bored and want novelty. Women want to be provided for and get attention. In sane societies (non-western ones), divorced women are neither provided for nor given positive social encouragement - so divorce initiated by women is rather rare.

In the fucked up clown world of the west, divorced women are provided for by the state and their ex-husband, and get all the positive attention and social admiration they want from beta orbiters, pump and dump Chads, and their female friends who call them "brave" and all the other bullshit for "getting rid of that loser" - even though they somehow still need that "loser"'s money to live their "40 and desperate" lifestyle.

[–]infamous32380 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Studies show women are actually happier the longer they are in a relationship, whereas men typically start to get bored and want novelty.

Source for these “studies”? I highly doubt that women, on average, are age happier 10 years after they got married compared to the day after the wedding.

[–]One_time_back_when37 points38 points  (22 children) | Copy

Most women, if marginally attractive, can always find a guy

[–]omega_dawg9344 points45 points  (17 children) | Copy

... to fuck them.

had to finish that statement.

women always have the option to get a guy (sex)... their challenge is to keep the guy (be a woman he wants to keep around).

[–]MantogeMan14 points15 points  (13 children) | Copy

Nah you're wrong. They can definitely find somebody to provide

[–]omega_dawg932 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

a man that provides for a woman that's not feminine, submissive, etc. is an idiot.

[–]MantogeMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

A term that isn't necessarily correct but is good for it is cuck or beta. Or beta cuck.

They can't get anything else.

It happens

[–]reddit309 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

the average person is an idiot, what are you trying to say?

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

i said what i had to say.

[–]MetalstepTNG6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

No, actually, because they've passed the wall. They no longer have anything of value to offer and usually end up remaining single and socially isolated. Hence the point of this sub.

Trust me, dude, single women over 30 is not a pretty sight.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (6 children) | Copy

If you think women over 30 aren't getting married then you spend too much time on trp

[–]LethalShade1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Is that your bar for success though? Getting a guy to marry them? You think these women get married to exciting, attractive, motivated guys and are in fulfilling marriages?

Anyone can find a relationship. I was at the mall the other day and this homeless guy asked me to use my phone so he could call his pregnant girlfriend to get her to come sleep with him at the park.

The laws of TRP work because we strive for the best in life(I would hope) and are not content with just getting any pussy or settling for any relationship. The same goes for the wall. 300 lbs women have no problem finding a sucker to marry them, doesn't mean the wall doesn't exist.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

My opinion is that internet alpha reddit heroes have a huge chip on their shoulder and hate women and want ro believe that later in life the girls who never fucked them will get theirs.

Reality is that most men on the planet 30+, including desirable alpha men, will date fuck and marry a high quality woman in her 30s.

Ie, I don't believe being a 30+ woman means you're a spindly used up piece of garbage. If you are, you probably were when you were 20 too

[–]One_time_back_when1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's a ton of older guys like me who generally prefer a woman in her 30s for something other than plate status. Sure, women in in their 20s are more attractive, but it's rare that they bring something to the table other than looks, in my experience

[–]LethalShade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I see your point too, I don't think you're wrong. To be honest, I never understood the hate older women got here. I'm in my early 20s but I find older women generally quite attractive.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reality is that most men on the planet 30+, including desirable alpha men, will date fuck and marry a high quality woman in her 30s.

Most desirable men will not date a divorcee in her 30's, especially one with kids.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you think women over 30 aren't getting married then you spend too much time on trp.

Getting married at over 30 != Getting in a realtionship that will lead to marriage at 30.

Many women do get married in their early 30, to a guy they've been dating since their mid 20's. They secured his commitment a long time ago.

[–]independent_rooster4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

exactly. we stop at sex because that's what we want. but women need more than that, they need security, stability, protection. and that's becoming harder to get (actually is correlated with the feminists accomplishments.)

[–]omega_dawg936 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

the feminists want to turn men into women... and apparently, women into men (for why they're valued).

they want men to want and pursue them because they're educated, have careers, and are known as the, 'boss bitch.' but men don't really care about that bullshit... we are attracted to soft, nurturing, FEMININE women-not women that act like men.

the equivalent would be women being attracted to men that exhibit feminine traits. they SAY THEY WANT THAT, but what woman actually wants a man to be crying when she needs him to support her while she's crying and is upset?

[–]independent_rooster1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


but i'm afraid that they can, by social engineering , change - to some degree - those traditional, hard coded values. you can already see it, a new generation of blue pilled, pathetic weasels who go along with the feminist agenda. you also see girls that buy that shit and learn to accept those weasels.

i don't think they will ever be a majority, but it's nonetheless alarming.

[–]Casanova-Quinn2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They can always find a *beta guy, not the alpha guy they truly want.

[–]hazelstein4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

A guy will fuck a fat landwhale that's why. Guys have low standards. They don't know their worth.

[–]AwakenedSovereign6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

A nut is worth practically nothing.

Our time, effort and status, on the other hand, are priceless.

[–]hazelstein3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

are priceless That's right.

[–]FlyingSexistPig50 points51 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women remember when they could get the hottest guys to fuck them. The cock carousel was a fun ride.

They don't know that they don't have a ticket to ride any more. And literally everyone tells them they are hot (except for those hottest guys).

[–]Yashugan0014 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

Booster rockets.

Women use men like booster rockets. They marry up to be in a higher social bracket . Then as they rise they get used to that level of comfort and invariably become unsatisfied about minor things and the nagging starts. What actually happens is that when you give a woman everything and she feels safe, her biology is kicking her to make one more try at diversifying her offspring (because her life and offspring are not at risk). Because women's attraction drive is for higher social status males (relative to her current one) she'll try to ride the next rocket upwards.

Were women often fail is that they miscalculate and confuse sex with a man for his commitment. Often, she can't trade these two things as readily as she used to. Guy sees her either as a fun ride and doesn't commit, or she become unhappy with that guy too and the relationshi(t)p breaks down a year or so later.

Most women are at that point miserable but put on a brave face and convince their married lady friends about how wonderful their live are. To the point that if one women divorces, you see a chain reaction in divorces)

[–]classylassy286 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, it's been shown that's divorce is contagious. Just like cheating and so on. (So who you hang with/associate with definitely matters)

When our one pair of friends went through divorce we didn't stay around to hear all the crap and have them share their misery. There is articles how it spreads, it's not made up.

[–]LordFa912 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

Multiple theories, some of the more popular ones are:

Women have a natural predisposition against long term monogamy

Husbands become plough horses and get boring AF

Hypergamy needs to be optimized, and doesnt care about flimsy promises like "till death do us part"

[–]urbanfoh[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Theory 1 and 3 are in conflict with their depreciating SMV. Attractive men date younger women.

How can women expect to find a man of higher value than their husbands willing to commit?

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Hamster is unburdened by any need to operate in a “reality-based” environment.

[–]LordFa95 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes that is true when you think about it logically but it doesnt stop them from trying

Thats why they cheat or they drop the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" bomb and the divorce is only the cherry on top and not the cake

[–]harbinger19450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have one more, after certain age(usually their 40's -- as an example can be used my mom), women have this idea that they wasted their time with one guy, so they travel around(and probably fuck around). Then they realize the errors of their way and find someone who will commit for them.

The sad thing about this is, that they leave scorched ground behind them. Families torn apart, houses sold, etc.

It effectively doesn't matter what kind of guy is her husband, as after 20 years it's boring to her. Funny thing is my father has a new gf for 2 years now, who is 28 and is much less bitchy than my mother ever was(I still don't think that my father's choice was great though)

What is sad is that I observed this more than once, and I would expect that kind of behavior from girls around my age(mid 20's).

[–]empatheticapathetic24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women don’t act logically, they act emotionally.

[–]Don_Draper277 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because the quality of men and their frame is also declining.

Also, divorce is shuned upon much less or even suggested by more people in today's society.

[–]1DubbleFUPAwitCheez6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

To put it concisely, the beta backslide.

[–]Narcissist4562 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]omega_dawg932 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


the real answer: divorce laws and child custody laws.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Esther Perel has a pretty good handle on the different things that can go wrong.

The main cause of divorce is time. Just like any hobby, your marriage can be life long or it can be fleeting. Some people give up and change hobbies, others stick with it. Finding two people who stick with the same hobby requires a massive amount of attention to detail and caring by both parties. It can be very very hard to maintain the longer it goes on.

You don't trick them, you manage yourself and them as a team and they do the same to you.

[–]SeasonedRP2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Social media has many drawbacks. An entertaining aspect of it, however, is that it allows you to observe how delusional women are, especially those in their late 30s to early 50s. Deep down they are very bothered that they don't turn heads like they used to. But they just can't accept that things aren't like they were when they were in their teens and 20s--when men flocked to them. They delusionally believe they still have this effect on men. When you see a woman in her late 40s constantly posting about how some young guy talked to her or checked her out at the grocery store, you'll see what I'm talking about.

This delusion, plus the unlimited supply of thirsty betas who provide validation, can lead to them divorcing their husbands when they are in their mid to late 30s. In general, it doesn't work out for them the way they think it will, and they get desperate to land a new man.

[–]escapethesolarsystem2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think #3 is a huge factor in most western developed countries, and I would add a 3.5 to this which is: society's acceptance of (especially female initiated) divorce gives them an emotional and social "safety net" they don't deserve and shouldn't really have.

This whole issue of divorce is strongly linked to socialization and societies. If you look at countries that don't have strong social safety nets and / or hold a negative view of divorce, the rate of divorce, especially female initiated, is much, much lower. There are many countries outside the west where a women will happily stay with a repeat cheater husband (not a fan of repeat cheater husbands, to be clear, it's really low-class douche behavior - you make a promise you should fucking keep it) as long as he provides for her and her kids. In these countries (where women have not been infected with feminism and toxic ego-inflating lies about their looks and attractiveness) women know exactly what the score is when she's 45 and had two kids, and she's not going to give up stability and protection for the uncertainty and poverty of being post-wall and single.

[–]adeptintact4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I initiated my divorce because I was tired of her. I think there's a good portion of men like me that do this.

[–]Flintblood1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women initiate most divorces in the US. I’d guess that if you looked at the age of females filing for divorce most would be under 40. If you looked at that group over the past 20 years, you would find that their reasons or lack of reasons for divorce differs from that of past generations and that of women who are currently 50+.

Women approaching 40 are at the wall or just past the wall, but not so far out that they don’t think they can do better elsewhere.

[–]HurricaneHugues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because most men have a beta mindset. They let themselves go, become duplicating to their wives, lose their assertiveness, stop dokg the things that made them fun and interesting, sit in a probider mindset, and overall accept the bullshit intersexual dynamic that society tells them to follow.

Whereas women are always hip to the game. Even a sloppy married 5 can still pull a Chad looking dude who's desperate for pussy.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha fucks; Beta bucks.

Women marry a dependable but unattractive beta when in their epiphany phase, and after years of marriage and that beta side of hypergamy well fulfilled (stability, kids, dependable partner), women start re-prioritising the need for alpha tingles.

Rollo called that the "alpha re-interest" phase and is explained in detail in his second book, the whole of which is a much more thorough model of intersexual dynamics than just reading that SMV graph, which is nothing but a comparison-of-average-potential-value-between-the-two-sexes.

That being said, the rate of divorce is much lower than what it would be if ALL women were to pull the trigger on their relationship as a consequence of their boredom and alpha-reinterest-phase. The reason it's not much much higher is that older women are very conscious of their much-lowered SMV.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why do marriages fail although women SMV declines?

Divorce is profitable for women.

She gets half of everything, and all the house. And alimony. And child support if there's kids. Legal fees on both sides paid for by the husband.

She gets full and complete spousal support, now and for the future, and she can fuck who she likes. No more boring monogamy.

When you realise this, it's amazing there any women who don't get divorced.

Women do not actually notice their declining SMV in the way you think they would. They cannot rationally process this information, instead they'll shriek "that's sexist!" or "older women are attractive too!" and all the rest of it. She replaces value with entitlement and carries on with all her previous expectations and more.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

She gets half of everything, and all the house. And alimony. And child support if there's kids. Legal fees on both sides paid for by the husband.

If she's a stay at home mom sure. If she works, she's certainly won't be getting all of that. I live in Texas, and according to my family law friends alimony is extremely rare if both spouses are working, and practically illegal if you've been married for less than 10 years(only exception is if she has to take care of severely mentally disabled child or something). And it's limited to only 5 years of payment. Not every state is Texas, but in general it's being phased out across most of the country.

When you realise this, it's amazing there any women who don't get divorced.

College educated couples only divorce about 17 percent of the time, so that's about 10 percent chance of your wife initiating a divorce assuming she's college educated.

Women are less likely to get remarried than men as well.

So I actually don't think divorce is profitable for women at all.

Yeah she might get child support, she also has to deal with raising your kids, which your payments will barely cover the cost of. Meanwhile she can't advance at work because she's always flaky doing kids stuff, she can't get any decent man to commit to her, and her social status and quality of life will generally take a hit as a single mother.

The big risk of marriage is your wife treating you like shit, not her divorcing you.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Women are less likely to get remarried than men as well. So I actually don't think divorce is profitable for women at all.

Well this doesn't follow. Why get remarried when you made enough off the last one? Remarrying would mean losing alimony, something she'll only do if a better provider comes along, and chances are the next guy is older and wiser.

Texas sounds like it's better than most places.

The big risk of marriage is your wife treating you like shit, not her divorcing you

This is a huge risk too, yes. Most of the marriages that stay together shouldn't - they're just making each other miserable.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well this doesn't follow. Why get remarried when you made enough off the last one?

Because women like being married for social status reasons.

Remarrying would mean losing alimony

Something most women never get, and if they do get it will be a few years.

[–]truthbomb9993 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Many women overvalue themselves and have never had to work to get a guy. Women THINK their SMV is like it was when they were in their 20s, but they get back on the dating market and get hit with a rude awakening

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Because the wall is a myth created by trp and women in their 30s and 40s are still bangable

[–]Flintblood3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

The problem here is that the wall has become this black and white false bifurcation when in reality the point of diminishing returns on appearance and appeal is much more prone to individual variability. Much of that variance is due to things like individual health choices, daily stress, quality of life growing up, and on and on. Look at Michelle Yeoh or Jane Seymour for women who take great care of themselves well into their 50s.

That said, I do believe the continuum of appeal decreases like a reverse learning curve and hits asymptote earlier for women than men. Dudes like George Clooney and Sean Penn can still have great looks and sport gray well into their 50s and even early 60s. Most men don’t have it, but if they worked out, ate healthy, dealt with stress, and dressed on fleek, they could extend their gaming life into their 60s.

Women (most) on average hit that lower hard limit earlier, and in some cases as early as 40 +/- 5 years.

Edited: Typos — and damn! Jane Seymour is 68 and just now showing age!

[–]xoxuv0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because game and understanding women's nature is more important than everything else.

Without it, women reject you.

[–]Danwphoto-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

What is SMV?

[–]geo_gan1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Secure motor vehicle


[–]Danwphoto0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I googled it.. sexual market vAlUe.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good. I hope you learned your internet lesson for the day 👍🏻

[–]TheLongerCon-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The risk of the divorce is dramatically overstated on TRP, for college educated couples it’s around 16 percent.

Most divorces are due to financial reasons, which is why uneducated people struggle, and are starting to not even get married.

Anyways, the bigger risk of marriage is a women cheating on you or treating your poorly. The reason that happens is because she gets bored.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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