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My wife was never that interested in sex, until she asked for an open marriage to explore her sexuality

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May 29, 2019


Post Information
Title My wife was never that interested in sex, until she asked for an open marriage to explore her sexuality
Author RedWildHeart
Upvotes 73
Comments 69
Date 29 May 2019 07:14 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

[–]helaughsinhidden27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

“Passionate Marriage” by David Schnarch

I'd give it a 4 out of 5. It's probably a "near miss" for sidebar quality.

She has some deep religious sexual shame that has really fucked her up.

Wrong, it's not the religious part she has issues with it's you, she just wanted to spare your feelings. The religion is a cover story, an excuse. Women BREAK rules for alpha, MAKE rules (or excuses) for betas. If she found you hot or was worried (and cared) about losing you, she'd be doing all sorts of nasty stuff.

Exhibit 1: "She wants to open up her side of the marriage to explore herself"

Where is her "religious convictions" now? What's missing is your being attractive and your leading.

We had no guidance or help understanding how to be good at sex or what to expect.

Good sex is whatever you can say it is without an apology. The problem is that YOU felt ashamed of your own desires or were embarrassed to ask. Hence, you PROJECTED that you actually felt like it was BAD.

I’m in individual therapy

This will likely point you toward BLUEPILL advice for your communication, tactics, etc. You can however use therapy to manage your anger, frustration, and butt hurt. Going RAMBO is a real thing. Many men blow up their entire lives because of the rage from learning they were lied to, hypergamy is as real as gravity, their wife is not a unicorn, and they are they cause of all their problems. Be careful about looking to this person for validation from a therapist. You need to learn to live without external validation or approval. Seek to meet no one else's standard except God or yourself. Also, talk to the iron. Weights. LIFT.

Ultimate covert contract......... she’ll say something about how she’s skeptical this will change

Yeah, this is bad news. Break it off. Come to a place where you have decided that you agree with her that you also do not like how you've been, but you've changed your mind about what kind of man you actually do want to be and that you don't actually know what it's going to look like. No matter what she says, like "I doubt you will change", just deflect or fog. I'm thinking "HA! I can see why you'd think that!" and shrug it off or simply say "Thanks" with a grin as if you know something she doesn't.

What she is doing is doing a basis 101 shit test here. If you get defensive, you lose. If you explain what you've done, you lose. If you tell her what you are reading, you lose. If you reference your therapist, you lose. If you try to rationalize your behavior, you lose. If you try to negotiate her to stay, you lose. If you reassure her you've changed, you lose. Any evidence that you care what she thinks is evidence that you still have her on a pedestal and won't change.

Think of her as an angry tourist and yourself as a safari guide. Every shit test is her saying "I think you are lost and we are doomed". Your response has to be one that is dismissive of her fears and confident that you know the way and won't even dignify her with a direct response. If the guide said "well, which direction do you suppose should we should try?" or "I promise to you that I will not get us lost again, I am sorry" it doesn't inspire confidence. Picture yourself instead as Indiana Jones saying "hey sugar tits, instead of making all that noise, why don't you hand me that machete and stay put, I'll be right back" with a wink. A wink like you know a secret. Something she doens't know. You do have a secret too, it's that you are the prize. You are far from the man you should be, but you've been treating her, the tourist, like the be all and end all, but the guide is the the one people pay to be with. The truth is, the ride is going to be bumpy for the both of you.

She needs more than this?

She already HAS "this". Hypergamy floats. No matter how much you make, there's always someone who makes a little more. Especially since in the US/Canda/UK she can leave for ANY reason and take HALF of your assets and a huge chunk of your future money. I have a friend, just got divorced a year ago, she never worked a day in her life, but left with enough cash in hand to buy a house outright, then date a man from South America who was 15 years younger and works as a personal trainer making no more than $30k per year.

So this marriage is over. Maybe she’ll be in my next marriage too, but it won’t be the same.

Good perspective. Also, as Paul says, you need to also "die to yourself". The old YOU is dead and a new YOU has to emerge.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

“The old YOU is dead and a new YOU has to emerge.”

This 100%. You will murder the old you and replace him with a better upgraded version. It takes time and work but damn it is so worth it... liberating.

[–]dll1422 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What she is doing is doing a basis 101 shit test here. If you get defensive, you lose. If you explain what you've done, you lose. If you tell her what you are reading, you lose. If you reference your therapist, you lose. If you try to rationalize your behavior, you lose. If you try to negotiate her to stay, you lose. If you reassure her you've changed, you lose. Any evidence that you care what she thinks is evidence that you still have her on a pedestal and won't change.

This paragraph is absolute gospel... internalize it. When you are successful at internalizing this, you will see the dumbfoundedness in your woman's face as she's criticizing you.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret39 points40 points  (4 children) | Copy

Here. Have a drink.


You good bruh?

Now set your life up to be a guy who gets laid.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy


For as short as this is, it’s...


[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Enough people do the Jack10 version. I cut to the quick

[–]Redpillbrigade170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Jacktenofhearts = the man, the legend

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

My man.............

My man.

My man!!!


p.s. Taipan's a smartass and a good dude.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are writing that the marriage is over. Who are you trying to convince… Us or yourself? It reads like you’re trying to convince both.

The worst is yet to come.

Brigade17 nails it on the head here. Get ready. Also, quit that CrossFit bullshit and start doing some real lifting. Every guy I’ve ever seen in the gym doing CrossFit looks like he doesn’t even lift. Get attractive - get muscular.

Quit whistling like a little boy in the dark and face up to the reality. Half of your post talks about her and the other half talks about how the marriage is over. I think you are very conflicted, and you need to face reality. Finish the rest of the side bar and hit some weights. Start getting a social life. She already has her mind made up.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

I declared this marriage dead.

au contraire

I’m giving this until my 38th birthday

Y'know, its not the whole 1n-count hypergamous wife thing that bothers me, its the fact that she is willing to drop 'openly cheating' on her religious husband. Think about that as a measure of value you have for her. She is willing to risk the shame and upheaval of divorce to have a crack at some rando she just met on the other coast.


[–]TopOccasion292 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My God

[–]weakandsensitive5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Think about that as a measure of value you have for her. She is willing to risk the shame and upheaval of divorce to have a crack at some rando she just met on the other coast.

This bothers you? This doesn't bother me. This is the inevitable conclusion. This is the "What the fuck did you expect to happen" to a man who's admittedly been a coasting, useless sack of shit for 15+ years of marriage.

The charitable, decent part is that at least she was open about it. The deference and consideration of the husbands feelings is commendable. The women is top notch in this scenario.

Because the majority of people in that scenario would enjoy the passion, and then go back to daily life. Or continue that affair (emotional, physical, or otherwise) with zero fucks given. And that shouldn't be surprising given how many husbands gain a bunch of weight and then hide behind video games after marriage.

Also, shame? Lol. She'd get support. Men who are losers can get fucked.

[–]NoCoast8215 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy

Like someone else said you are in the anger phase, following the same script a most of us used. So yes lift/read/STFU

One thing that you mentioned several times though is the religion aspect... you still have not grasped this was all about you! How can she have religious hangups about sex, but want to fuck strange from some convention? How can she have religious hang ups but want a God Damn Fucking open marriage???

She didn't want to fuck you because you are not fuckable, convention dude was fuckable and her hamster was able to rationalize any hangups she has with sex to get with him.

The stay plan is the same as the go plan, once you truly understand that things may start changing.... or they won't and you go!

[–]Redpillbrigade177 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

I once fucked a married gal (haha she even came with me to a convention or two) who grew up religious like that and had a low n count. Hubby was her high school sweetheart. She would bring numbing spray to our dates in hotel rooms so she could take me all in as I fucked her face with enjoyment. So yeah, they may have hangups but miraculously they disappear with some dudes. OP needs to be one of them.

[–]NoCoast824 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

I need a job that sends me to conventions... they seem like multi day parties on the company's dime, and most everyone has a wedding ring but no one cares!

I know my wife got to close to some guy at a convention, but I was early in the anger phase then... AWALT

[–]An_Actual_Politician2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm one of those guys that goes to lots of these conferences. Better yet, I get stage time at most (dumb as that sounds to us - it matters to women).

They are absolutely, positively the easiest way to get laid. Married, single - it doesn't matter. The women there are AWALT and DTF. I've thought about posting a field guide to it since I have my technique nailed down pretty good for these things. Had a 5 conference streak at one point, which might be more impressive knowing that I'm only in these town for a night or two and prefer fucking locals (non-conference goers) so I'm not at all shitting where I eat.

My wife has never caught me and I also use these road trips to ratchet up the dread. Back when I was betabux I'd tell her how easy it would be to get laid at conferences, as if that was the key to dread and desire. All while still looking and acting like a complete weakling faggot. Now I'm lean, muscular and wear properly fitting clothes. I STFU about that blue pill "I could cheat on you ya know" shit and just walk the walk instead. I barely text when I'm gone. No communication at night on the road, even when I'm just back in my room chilling. Her hamster runs wild.

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.02 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can confirm. I went to Puerto Rico last week for business and didn't even get past take off with my wife sending me texts non-stop like, "You are sitting next to some girl talking aren't you?" "She probably thinks you are cute." etc. All ignored by me. The stories they make up in their head. I mean shit I was sitting next to some fat ass in cargo shorts going on vacation there cause he was too lazy to get his passport.

[–]An_Actual_Politician1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ha! Was just in PR too. Heading back to keynote a conference later this summer.

The dating app to setup a meetup there was a little more difficult. Tons of women looking for stateside sugar daddies there. No thanks.

And so true regarding the plane ride. Man I'm on like a 100 flights in a row streak of being seated next to either fat dudes or old people. Walk through the airport and there are hit women all over the place. Get to my seat and always a total disaster/letdown. Maybe it's because of the seats I take (window, booked a reasonable time out from the flight).

Of course I'd never mention that uggo streak to the wife. As far as she knows I just wrapped up a 5 hour bonding sesh with a smoke show.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am in a new relationship where before I committed she knew I was fucking other girls. In many stupid ways I verbalised the dread like you mention. Now that I have committed how do I keep it up without being overt. Sometimes I feel she doesn't react to covert stuff given our original situation.

[–]An_Actual_Politician3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're asking about the levels of dread. Sidebar has that covered but the main things are to stop communicating so fucking much when you go out without her (which should be regularly). Either with friends or even by yourself.

Stop with the play by play texts of the night. Make her wonder why you're so busy having fun that you don't have time to text her.

Also be vague on describing what you're planning on doing. "Heading out with the guys tomorrow night." instead of "Me, Steve and Lou are gonna go to BWWs then maybe Shooters for bar trivia, blah blah blah."

Dont be afraid to game women when you're out either. Catch and release is fun and harmless and if you dont think your girlfriend/wife is doing the exact same thing on girls night out then your REALLY need to hit the sidebar. If she's fuckable, she's getting hit on when she goes out without you and flirting back if the guy has any kind of decent game.

[–]UnbreakableFrame13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy

You are a very articulate idiot. The rationalizations in your post are absolutely unreal.

She has some deep religious sexual shame that has really fucked her up

Yeah, man. All that religious shame. It must be so hard for her.

She and I are also doing sex therapy with a Schnarch-trained therapist who seems to be good and holding us both accountable. I’m hopeful it’ll be helpful for helping her work through some of her religious sexual shame

That miserable shame that she still carries to this day.

my wife confessed to strong feelings of attraction for someone else and asked to open up the relationship to “explore this side of herself”.

Oh... but... I thought?

she talked about asking me for the open marriage so she could “get physical” with him

Oh, there's that shame again! Thank God that the shame that's holding her back from fucking you is also at least keeping her faithful.

You need to wake the fuck up. Her "religious shame" doesn't exist. I don't know what religion you are, but does she give as much of a fuck about the rest of the commandments she no doubt breaks every day of her life? I find it doubtful. It's always the -- ironically unarticulated by the religious text in question -- sexual aspects that these women get hung up on. Having sex with their committed husband, bound to them in "holy matrimony", is just so unpalatable. She needs Chad to baptize her with his seed and absolve her of the weight of her sinful guilt.

Your post is so guarded too. You are like a salesman desperate to avoid objections from a client. You try to anticipate the things that you will get called a faggot for and give yourself a knowing tap on the wrist, with a wink and a nod at us. Fuck out of here with that shit. Example below:

A month ago I switched to Crossfit. I know, I know, but fuck you guys. The best workout program is the one you’ll stick with, and this is a good fit for me for right now in those terms.

That's how women rationalize marrying a beta faggot like you. "The best man is the man who takes a knee". Cross fit is shitty exercise. It's more likely to injure than help you grow. You waste time doing snatches, which aren't optimal for literally anything, and you play Russian Roulette with your rotator cuff.

One of the best things I’ve done is start to really consider my life after divorce.

Your life after divorce will be exactly the same as your life now; you getting manipulated, walked on, and cucked. You've said nothing in your post that leads me to believe you are actually going to put in the work here. It's like you were just looking for a place on the internet to come pat yourself on the back.

PS: Emojis are what emotionally terrified people put in messages, because they are afraid that if they don't, the recipient of the message might possibly think that you are challenging them or asserting that you actually have a strong opinion about something. That's too scary, isn't it :)

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

PS: Emojis are what emotionally terrified people put in messages, because they are afraid that if they don't, the recipient of the message might possibly think that you are challenging them or asserting that you actually have a strong opinion about something. That's too scary, isn't it :)

Well said!

[–]An_Actual_Politician1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Yeah but have you seen how many Likes I get when I post videos on social media of me doing snatches??"

~ OP, probably

[–]IRunYourRiver0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Gonna have to disagree about Crossfit. The lifestyle and community aspects of it are great bonuses to the red pill journey - if your body can take it. Crossfit demands a lot of obedience to nutrition, form, schedule, pacing, modifications. It puts you in mixed company with some of the hottest women you are likely to encounter. It drives you forward. It creates social outlets for autistic fucks. You'll bond with some incredible athletes. I've made a ton of friends through crossfit and have transformed my body and my life.

You bang on snatches as being useless, but what are bicep curls or lat pull downs? Upright rows? Those are bodybuilding exercises that don't translate outside of the gym. A snatch is one of the most technical and athletic maneuvers you could perform. Just doing one adds a few millimeters to your penis length. Now combine this with some 400m sprints and rope climbs and race against a former special ops officer. That's crossfit.

[–]Thorondor_Rising4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My take is that if you're going to do crossfit, you should build yourself up to a brick shithouse with strength training first, and use crossfit to cut, and bring definition to your larger form.

If you can't tell just by looking at someone if they're strong then that defeats the point of it using your fitness to improve your sexual strategy. Aesthetics first.

[–]UnbreakableFrame8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your post is a giant logical fallacy. "Crossfit is a great form of exercise because of all of this shit that has nothing to do with exercise". That's like saying, "I know you don't like insert-politician-name, but we should elect him to office. He wears tailored suits of the highest quality, their thread count is immense and the stitching is immaculate. He also is a great golfer." I said that Crossfit is a shitty form of exercise, I didn't rag on its merits as a social club. Every form of lifting demands nutrition, schedule, form, pacing, and modifications if you are going to achieve success. I don't see how any of that is unique to Crossfit.

Snatches aren't useless, there are just so many other exercises that are better and safer for building mass. Seated overhead press is way better for your front delts. Squats are way better for your glutes/quads. Deadlifts are better for your lower back. The biggest issue with movements like snatches, and Crossfit in general, is that so much of it is explosive. Explosiveness does not help hypertrophy and mass building and it encourages people to attempt to lift weights that they aren't conditioned enough for. It's extremely hard to tell how much you can load on your shoulders when you are using your entire body to lift the weight.

The reason we encourage men to lift here is not so that they can gain functional strength, let's be fucking honest about that. Lifting is the first thing on the sidebar because it's the lowest hanging fruit for most of the men here to stop looking as pathetic as they act. It makes you sexy and that's why we do it. Bodybuilding focuses on isolated movements and safe compound exercises, because they are the fastest way to get bigger.

[–]IRunYourRiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, anyhow, OP has other problems and the eternal Crossfit vs conventional lifting debate isn't going to be solved here. But if it works for him and he likes it, then he should do it.

[–]scarmine340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bodybuilding also gives you the confidence not just of looking good, but of being powerful which comes through in how you meet men or women. It doesn't just help you with women - it helps on the job, it helps when you walk in to a bar and a dude looking to start trouble decides he won't start it with you, it is when you look at a sketchy piece of shit on the street and he looks and scampers away because he doesn't want to fuck with you.

Lifting totally changes your mindset. It shows you in the mirror that you can improve yourself. You get a great visual of your progress.

That said - it depends a bit on the body type you have and what look you want to go for. When I was at my thinnest, only running and doing pushups and starving myself I was down to 189. My family were worried about me because I looked sick.

I could do crossfit and bulk up and look bigger than a lot of guys that are lifting weights. Obviously not forever, but you get the point.

My 2c anyway.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mmmmmm CrossFit snatch - I think joining a box is better than joining a dating site. Those girls are the most DTF bunch I have ever seen.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey man at least she didn't decide she was lesbian! You and I are wayyyy to close in situation for me not to comment on this. Red pill is fixing me, but it didn't save my marriage so just keep that in your head. Your in this to improve yourself not to "Win" her back. My divorce should go forward next month and short of the impact it's going to have on my daughter I'm grateful. Ive learned more about myself in this past year than I ever knew before.

Best of luck, and if I can ever be of help shoot me a msg.

[–]Redpillbrigade1719 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy


That said,

  1. Have you met with an attorney yet? You need to be ready for divorce. Financially and practically not just mentally.

  2. Don’t expect the “ultimate covert contract” to disappear completely even after you’ve moved on. It could be years from now and still deep in your mind you’ll find yourself you’ll still look for her approval. Her every word. You’ll have to fight that instinct in you for the rest of your life with her - and yes, since you have a child with her the two of you are going to be having some kind of dance and contact for the next 14 years or so. Watch for that.

  3. The worst is yet to come. You think the marriage is dead, but it’s not. You think you’re ready but you have not seen the impact yet. Once shit hits the fan and the two of you physically separate, start having your child live in two houses (or worse she makes a nasty stink in custody fights and severely limits your time with your kid) it’s going to hit you like a ton of bricks. That’s going to be reality then. A core part of your life’s work as a man (your marriage and family) will be in pieces. Divorce sucks. Get ready. You’ll need a fresh, positive perspective and to truly reinvent yourself.

Good luck.

[–]StinkyCoach2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Attorney was my first thought.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret28 points29 points  (7 children) | Copy

I was so angry and hurt by this. We have a 4 year old daughter! We’ve built a great life together! We’ve been together since we were teenagers! We fucking promised to be together forever!

Hypergamy doesn't care.

This guy that she’s attracted to lives on the other coast and they just saw each other a few days at a conference and I guess there were sparks.

Uh huh. I'll let the other guys tear you a new one.

She has some deep religious sexual shame

Aka you're not attractive, but fat and weak.

Look. You're knee deep in the anger phrase right now. And it's all your fault. All of it. You were complacent, weak, didn't care, barely beta bucks. Can you blame her?

So then, what are you going to do about it? Rage at the universe? Drink heavily? None of that will work. No. You need to shut up, you need to start lifting heavy weights, and you need to stop licking the red pill and suck down the sidebar.

Your last paragraph, it comes from a man deep in the anger phase. And that's fine. Bully for you. Do what you want to do, act like you are single, etc - but you are writing all of this while deep in the anger phase AND with a lack of frame. So all I'll say to you is that you need to be in a clear headed space before making life decisions, AND you have to have frame. And it's clear you have none.

Also, this is your last damn puke. You puke again, you get banned.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

OP is writing as though he's the woman, a weak woman at that, and a woman with no shame.

He's hopeless and should be banned, if he's not just plain fake and baiting everyone.

This is fucking pathetic.

His gay-ass dramatizing at the end is more disgusting than the entirety of this faggoty post.

But I’m fucking done with the old way, with my old life, with who I used to be, and with the marriage I used to have. If she wants to step her fucking game up and join me, she’s welcome, but either way, this train is leaving the station.

OP: That translates to one thing... divorce your tramp wife who's only naturally wanting an actual man - or even half-an-actual-man - one with (1) testosterone coursing through his veins and (2) a penis attached to his body.

She wants a man, not a non-man.

You are like a department store mannequin: plastic, faceless, pathetic, and with no genitalia.

You sicken me more than the chemotherapy drugs that ravaged my body for months.

[–]tspitsatgp6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

He sounds very much like me 18 months ago, though he found this place much sooner.

As pathetic as the story sounds, it’s a text book response from someone who thought they were living a Disney life and then one day woke to discover they were actually living a nightmare. Upon waking he reached for the tools that were immediately available to him, Disney’s Beta Tools (tm), and set to work trying to escape his nightmare, only to discover that everything he had learned over the years about what women want was a lie.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How are you doing today?

[–]tspitsatgp4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I now laugh when I remember how totally fucked my world was this time last year.

So, significantly better, but a long way to go.

[–]HerukaArisen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

As pathetic as the story sounds, it’s a text book response

This is actually my main concern here. OP has read the books and knows the lingo. He tries desperately to impress us with his "honesty". I have a feeling he has no clue about the gravity of his situation and his own pathetic behavior.

[–]tspitsatgp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He’ll get there. Based on my experience I summize that he’s in a state of hyper-arousal/vigilance devouring everything he can find here, taking on board bits and pieces but not fully internalizing, knowing that MRP speaks to him, but still doing it for the wrong reasons. Eventually he’ll burn out and then start again this time doing it for the right reasons (I.e. himself). Or not.

I had to encounter AWALT way too many times before it really sunk in.

We all have different starting points.

[–]tspitsatgp9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should lift because it is hard and scary for newbies. It is the first step in doing something that is hard and which most avoid because they don’t know how to do it and are afraid they will embarrass themselves at the gym. It will suck for a while and then it will feel great.

Marriage counseling, couples retreats, etc, huge waste of time. Just giving her the opportunity to say she tried to save the marriage when you already know that she doesn’t think it can be saved.

Right now, the only thing you can do is save yourself. Any attempt to convince your wife she is wrong will cause her to withdraw and send you into depression. You have a 4 year old daughter, you do not need to remind her of the consequences of separating. She knows.

OYS. Lift. Eat healthy. Be an awesome Dad to your kid. Find a way to accept things as they are, not as you wish they were. Be fun, don’t be a mute idiot.

I don’t know if there are any shortcuts, but take it from me, you are the only thing you can change.

[–]resolutions3168 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

See you in OYS, fuckwad.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba-11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your wife currently has little interest in sex WITH YOU. You are on your way to changing that, hopefully. Also, take a chill pill, man, dont burn down the marriage just yet. Having been a drunk captain for 15 year is not overcome in weeks. Weeks! If she's not bailing yet, dont you either, especially since the Stay plan = Leave plan. After all, you have a child, and you two just might save the marriage. Maybe not, but you owe it to yourself to know you tried. Do implement all the stuff you know, become attractive, stop being unattractive, lead your family, lead your wife. Become a rock, become the prize. All of those things migth improve your marriage, and if not, will make you desireable afterwards.

And don't be too quick to dismiss religion. Done right, it can produce people who are sex-positive but also want to keep it within marriage. That's what my wife and I are like. Your daughter might benefit from just about the only thing that keeps girls from being sluts nowadays. Good luck.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red[🍰] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've never heard that story before.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

“Maybe she’ll be in my next marriage too, but it won’t be the same. That marriage will have an actual man in it”

You’re going to marry another dude?


[–]Redpillbrigade173 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hahaha hahah Fucking laughing out loud. I had missed that. OP is so blue pill and such Mr Nice guy he is already thinking about his next marriage. That’s like covert contract squared !!!

[–]amalgamator3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you liked Passionate Marriage, his book Intimacy and Desire is better (unfortunately it’s out of print). It’s weird that Intimacy and Desire didn’t catch fire like Passionate Marriage did.

[–]Reject4441 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I just finished “Resurrecting Sex” by Schnarch and I found it more helpful (and a better read) than “Passionate Marriage”. I’m aware that it may have seemed more accessible because I was already familiar with many of the basic concepts because I had previously read Passionate Marriage, though. Either way, I think RS is definitely worth a read-through or two.

[–]amalgamator1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Intimacy and Desire is even better in my opinion. Brain Talk is good too.

[–]lololasaurus3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, others have given you some good advice, especially, by my estimation, helaughsinhidden's post.

This wasn't your religion. Your wife wants to cheat on you openly; religion has nothing to do with what she's doing. It may be that you've forgotten or never learned the red pill aspects of your religion; I was in this boat 2 years ago. Great at pointing at what it requires, in the most unattractive way. Playing the wrong game perfectly by the rules. But that wasn't the game she was playing.

My exhortation to you is this. You have a 4 year old. You best become the most involved dad in the world right now if you don't want to end up being an every other weekend dad. And you better hope the marriage lasts long enough for you to build that documented history.

Make every doctor appointment. Be at every doctor appointment. Be the one who drops off and picks up at daycare. Be the one who lets your kiddo hang out with you at work if this is remotely possible. Be the one who takes the kid to the park alone. She's welcome to come, but you are going either way. You better do something with the kid all the time. You better document this. You better put kiddo to bed every night, maybe say prayers together, whatever your routine looks like. You better help kiddo get dressed every morning. Girl? You better blow dry her hair after bath time, learn to braid her hair, etc. And somehow you have to develop the frame, yesterday, to do this in a way that your wife doesn't think you're divorce prepping and she just leaves now with the kid. Hint: you need to balance the extremely urgent need to do all of this right now with the need to ramp it up subtly. And you need to do it all because it's the right thing to do. Not for validation, not to dodge child support. Not to be a pain to your wife. Because you're a dad, and responsibility flows to those who take responsibility.

At some point custody is going to be an issue unless your wife has a major heart change. Are you the primary caregiver who the child will primarily live with, or are you the primary beta bux who is going to fund that lifestyle via child support? (I bet I know already). Better get on that, fam.

Yes not all of this is alpha behavior. Do the work to be an alpha. You're not off the hook for that either. Quit the gay CrossFit stuff and lift. It's not optional. Consume the sidebar. Lift more. While your kid is sleeping. Live like you're already a single dad. The stay plan is the go plan.

Go. Fight. Win. No more victim crap.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not good. I would lose my shit if I found out about that in your condition and frame. In that regard, good job not going rambo. Don't do anything quickly, this will take years to unfuck. You are a disaster. This can be fixed and your marriage can be saved, it's nothing new. Lots of good advice here already but you need to read all of it multiple times for that wall of text we had to endure. Buckle up and get to work faggot. Make becoming a man your main job in life and you might be able to save yourself. You are in a deep pit.

[–]rotkohlblaukraut2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

People *feel* first, they rationalize second.

> her religious sexual shame, which I think was what first put this fire out all those years ago

Yeah, that's the rationalization hamster at work. There may be some truth to it but it sure ain't the whole truth. You seem so aware of your own role in half of your post, then you turn it around and blame the rest of the world. Anger phase, anger phase. You realize that the reason we rub your nose in everything and tell you it's your own damn fault is NOT to beat you up and hurt you, right? It's to make you realize that you have all the power to make a different outcome by acting differently. But in the anger phase you blame yourself as a way to vent anger and punish yourself, while ignoring the deeper and more inspiring message.

> the ultimate covert contract:

Because you're viewing staying married, to her, as the prize. You're viewing being a second rate plough horse as being the end goal. If you viewed all this as you being the prize to her, or you having a fulfilling life on your own terms, the one half of the covert contract wouldn't be there any more. It's the fundamental assumptions that lead to the arising of the CC.

> And then we got married and she was supposed to just flip the switch and be super sexual.

And yet here you are reading MRP and a couple sidebar books and expecting to flip a different switch? It's a long road, and the only switches are your own, and they tend to be pretty stubborn.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Now that you have had your cry

STFU, lift. Read. STFU, because no one actually gives a fuck, but you should, and it should be giving a fuck about you, then your daughter

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're saying a lot of the right words. The question is whether you'll ever start meaning any of them.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I realized that if I’m going to start dating, I should probably make an effort to be more attractive.

Sucks for your wife that for 15 years she didn't get your best. Dick move on your part. Champ on hers.

Although I'd bet the same could be flipped and repeated, but you're talking here so lets just focus on you.

She and I are also doing sex therapy with a Schnarch-trained therapist who seems to be good and holding us both accountable.

Do you really want your wife to dig down and think about the details of why you're an unattractive fuck and doesn't like you? Because I guarantee you she can rationalize whatever decision she's already made. It's why boyfriend destroyer routines exist.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

few days at a conference

10000000% sure they fucked and she loved it.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can do one thing. Be the best version of you. You cannot do the other thing - force your wife to want to fuck you. Your marriage is toast so at least go to an attorney and figure out how to plan and strategize for the best possible outcome.

[–]Nuwanda2064 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wow... you were correct when you labled this Victim Puke.

I don't know what do you want us to tell you?, you've seem to answer all of your questions.

Yes, if she said she wants to fuck other men, it is over, even if you manage to rescue this, you'll know she will have this thoughts again eventually.

Should've placed your limit immediately. If all the improvement is real, why would you settle for the crums of her attraction?

Stop wasting your time and become a man for you and your daughter.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

you'll know she will have this thoughts again eventually

AWALT man - who fucking cares they all do and will - hope you don’t think you found a unicorn. As I said in another thread - be so fucking amazing that you could replace her in a week with someone younger, hotter and tighter and you will find shit like this doesn’t even cross your mind.

This was me a year ago and now I’m over here trying to stop myself from banging my sons 18 year old blonde preschool teacher who has admitted she would fuck me any time, anywhere and meanwhile my wife is fucking me 4-5 times a week. If my wife pulls some shit like this I wouldn’t have even a second thought and you may even catch me break out into a dance.

[–]Art_MartinStill a somewhat autist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Shit hack3ge, I just read some of your history and I am where you were a year ago. My wife sounds nearly exactly like yours - literally asking the same questions, reacting the same way. I could be writing the same posts.

Just good to hear an example of someone who was in a similar situation, had the same doubts as I do now, and managed to come out the other side. I know there is a shitload of examples here of that - but yours resonated as it feels so familiar.

Nice work getting yourself sorted - and managing to bring your wife along with you.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thankfully none of us are special which is why MRP works to fix the man. The only limit on what you can become is how hard you are willing to work and how much you are willing to give up to get the life you want.

I haven’t posted much lately about myself because I’ve been in a weird place - wife is getting dragged along somewhat reluctantly and the fact I’ve never fucked any other woman than her leaves me really questioning what I want.

I’m working on an updated MAP too so this year should be a wild ride.

[–]IRunYourRiver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Welcome to the club. And Crossfit kicks ass, by the way.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Personally I would just trial seperate and keep working on your self. But make it come from you.

Or if she said it won’t work. Just say that. Don’t torpedo it, and set up plan to work on it. O guess it’s about rebuilding it.

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Same shit, different day. And scores of men here had the same thing happen to them, whether it was "i want an open marriage" or "ILYBINILWY"'s all the same.

You have two decisions to make: 1. Are you going to put in the work to become the best version of yourself and 2. WHAT DO YOU WANT???.

1 is easy: sidebar and lift. #2 is where you're going to struggle considering your OP; you've framed your entire situation passively as your wife's decision to make. Nothing there tells us what you actually want to happen. Understandably, figuring it out takes time through this whole journey of yours but you need to start asserting your wants and needs upon the world.

Sidebar & lift. Start living like you're single. Clean up your life. Start acting like the man you want to be, then become it. Put yourself into a position where you decide your fate, not her.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She and I are also doing sex therapy with a Schnarch-trained therapist

So what does that even mean? What happens at such therapy? If you admit that the problem is your lack of attractiveness, and that desire can't be negotiated, what is the purpose of this therapy? To be sure, if you could pay someone $175/hour and as a result your wife's pussy was wet for you, it would be well worth it, but I doubt that's what you're getting for your money.

[–]dwebsterlight0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Drop the monthly count, i learned that. Once you are fit and attractive, are holding frame, planning stuff, and are fun to be around the progression of dread starts upward. If you haven’t completed the basics of unfucking yourself the number of months you’ve kept the pill down doesn’t matter.

After that, if you see the dread has no effect then the marriage is confirmed dead.

[–]PirateSquirrel880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I recommend you honestly explore your fantasies to see if you can make this work.

I found myself in almost the exact same scenario: mid-forties, married 20+ years with my marriage and sex life spiraling down the toilet. I was my wife's only partner she'd had her entire life. Our sex life was vanilla, and infrequent. My wife was extremely unhappy.

She admitted an affair. I said "Did you have fun?", she said "Yes." I asked "Do you want a relationship with this person?" She said "No, it was unplanned and just some fun." Call it a mid-life crisis, or an awakening; she wanted a change. I'm sure she thought I was going to bolt at this point.

(Admission: I knew she had some repressed sexuality, and I had fantasized about seeing her with another man. So I was already primed to accept this situation, which she had not expected at all. It turns our she's a natural exhibitionist, and I'm a natural voyeur)

We talked it out, and I understood how she felt. She agreed to a time-out from her other friend, while we figured out new ground rules. Ultimately, after very serious consideration and talking for a few weeks, we agreed to opening up our marriage.

The end result is now we are having more sex (with each other) than I can handle, and trying things I had only fantasized about. She has had a number of partners in the last few months, and last weekend, we had our first 4-way with another couple (which wasn't even on my bucket list).

Our marriage is back on fairly solid ground with excellent communication we never had before. We agreed to regularly check in with each others feelings, so that any jealousy or misgivings can be addressed. She will answer any question I ask her, and I let her know how I feel. I have been honest with myself, and I've done my research to have a good understanding of how to handle this situation.

I can't say for certain how long this ride can last, but it sure is fun, and as long as we keep talking, I believe it can go the distance now.

[–]PirateSquirrel880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, I don't think you have anything to lose at this point, and a possibly a lot to gain :)

Your marriage is a really tall bridge right now, you can walk off the bridge, you can just stand there and hope that you don't accidentally or intentionally fall off, or you can jump off with a bungee with a chance that it's a lot of fun. Your choice. The bungee is scary as shit, but man, for me it turned out to be a lot of fun!

PM me if you have any questions.

[–]Shammyshanks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

leave her

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bet if I took a few months to train her, I could get her to come with no hands while I pee on her as well.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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