[FR] Update- on main events and how far I have yet to go

Dickskingoalzz · 2019-07-12T17:40:30+00:00

Good on you. After living in Utah for 10 years I don’t think I ever could have comprehended the pervasiveness and toxicity of Mormonism without seeing it first hand. Good luck, stay the course.

Maximus_Valerius · 2019-07-12T20:11:59+00:00

I want to be ready to lay out a vision for our relationship

Here's what I did. I explained it in a narrative story.

I first set the context: We are in our 90s and our great-grandchildren ask us how we met and what was our secret to such a successful marriage.

I started at the beginning, telling how we first met and the feelings I had. Then I moved forward through time, telling the stories of several positive but emotionally-charged events in our 20-year past. Explained how they made me feel. By this time, tears began to well up in her eyes.

Then I brought it to the present and explained how we had a tough time for a year or so. How it was tough on both of us.

Then I explained how our relationship entered a new phase, which was where I set out my vision (in past tense), like it had already happened and was part of the story of our life. It seemed to resonate with her and was not as overt/awkward as stating "I want this, I want that."

Sepean · 2019-07-12T17:53:18+00:00

Good work, man, it sounds like progress - still work to do, but you mention everything yourself. Just keep on holding frame, don’t give up, and if you mess up don’t fall back into some appeasing shit to make up for it. It’s better to go hard and be an asshole than lose frame.

Have you read the guide to the good life by Irvine, on stoicism? Negative visualisations are great for handling anger and provocations.

ArborioRice · 2019-07-12T18:01:05+00:00

If I analyze it I think where I miss the mark is I'm still a drunk captain when it comes to overall vision.

It could be that simple. If you're having your epiphany and taking your life in a different direction she may be feeling lost and not know her place. You're in effect blowing up her entire worldview. I forget where I read it recently here but it was something about providing a narrative for her to buy into which replaces the old narrative she operated under. You provide the vision/narrative and invite her to come along. Yea, when it comes to something as deep as religion it may be exponentially more difficult but the concept is the same: provide the narrative. It's up to her whether she joins or not.

witnessthenomorebp · 2019-07-14T03:05:10+00:00

Everything I'm about to write, you already know. But having gone through this myself, it might be worth the read.

The dread she is feeling right now is 100% coming from the church issue. You know (As well as I do) that the ONLY reason you would leave is because of major sin and the guilt that comes from it. She is hearing that from EVERYONE, church leaders, the women in the Relief Society, her family. So while it is dread and will lead her to act accordingly sexually, you are also walking a very, very narrow tightrope. The road out of this is the true straight and narrow path. The exmo subreddit has some very good insight about leading your wife out of the cult and some have actually been successful.

Remember, the red pill is about being a man, a leader and stoic. If you are these things, you will be the man, father and husband which the church professes to be all about, without being part of it. Which goes to show you, if you are truly red pill you will be able to change your course and she will follow, because the one thing that red pill and that church have in common is the knowledge that women want to follow strong and awesome men. Which is why they try and turn all the men into bitches, so the strong men can get the money, adoration and control.

All those poor fools will watch you and want to be you if you are truly loving your best life for you. Your wife will eventually have a secret thrill that you are fucking awesome compared to every blue pill, poorly dressed lemming, if you give her a reason to respect you and follow you that is more powerful than living her whole life for some nebulous reward after she is dead. In the words of someone I've recently read, you need to become the man other men want to be and the man that other women want to fuck.

If the other women in the ward are telling her how great you are to lead the family and how good you look etc. she isn't going anywhere. If there is anything I know about Mormon women it is that they get a ton of anxiety trying to get validation from each other and expend all their energy trying to impress each other. If you are bad ass all those women will flirt and fantasize about you and wish they had you. That will be real dread.

As far as anger, lift to get that out and then let it go outside of the gym. I lost 40 years myself, and 2 of them all at once. It's done and gone and you aren't getting it back (stoicism) so just fucking live for this life instead of "the next life" and the turn around in her might just surprise you.

BostonBrakeJob · 2019-07-12T20:26:08+00:00

Her picking fights and general bitchiness is probably linked to your "I suck at comfort tests" statement.

You've turned your back on your lifelong religion and openly criticize it. She is still planted firm, so her mind associates herself to said religion. Guess what she hears and sees when you trash it and just....walk away....from it?

There's some insight to her perspective, maybe. And I tell you this not so you can hatch some new trick to win her over, change her mind or whatever. I tell you because you seem to be pretty wrapped up in your surroundings and may be missing the bigger picture.

If her staying with the church is a dealbreaker for you, then leave. Plain and simple.

But if it's not, then show her that instead of trying to win some philosophical debate with her. Instead of trying to change her beliefs. Instead of trying to change her, at all. But you can't show her you want her around until you, yourself, knows it is so. Do what ya gotta do to figure it out.

If you show her, and she still wants to leave, or still keeps the bitchy front up, well....there's not much you can do about that, now is there? But if you're going to send the message that the religion, and everyone who follows it, is a fucking retard, then I don't know what else you really expect from her other than what you are getting? Stop trying to plug in algorithms and start living your life. She'll come around or she won't.

alphasixfour · 2019-07-12T21:01:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

0io- · 2019-07-12T21:31:19+00:00

Well, on the plus side you're having sex with your wife.

You're pulling your wife into new and unfamiliar territory. Just keep your shit together, don't panic when she's panicking, and enforce your boundaries. Once she figures out you're not having a manic episode or something she'll probably follow you where you go.

I personally wouldn't try too hard to change any of her religious beliefs.

Maybe some day you should take her up on her desire to see you with another woman if she really wants to have a threesome with another girl.

I think you could probably fix your claustrophobia through "exposure therapy". You could probably do it yourself with a good friend or with a therapist. If you were deathly afraid of dogs, they would start having you look at a picture of a dog, then maybe standing outside a room where a dog is in a cage, etc etc until you can actually go into a room with a dog and pet the dog... So for your case you'd let your friend corner you for 10 seconds in some kind of safe setting, and then keep building up to where you can be cornered for longer without losing it.

Her cornering you in the shower is just a shit test. As you know women are great at shit-testing, and any weakness she can find in you is fair game.

Just make sure you keep improving. I would bet money that she'll follow you wherever you go. Probably in a year she'll lighten up on the LDS stuff and watch some porn with you or actually have that threesome she's always talking about.

Don't overthink things. If you want to let her look at your phone let her look at your phone. Don't explain or apologize for anything you have on there. If she wants to worry about guns and bikini girl let her worry.

screechhater · 2019-07-12T23:13:53+00:00

Great work.

However, you are stepping in and out of her frame. Sexual fantasies mentioned behind closed doors and a self righteous cunt in front of the doors.

See the dichotomy ? Stay the course, on task, in frame and on your mission. Eventually, the Co captain follows the leader and stood questioning the comments related to separating from the church.

Your still scared, about leaving and that’s ok. She’s not fully on board. It takes time and you staying the course.

Battery of tests to see if you fail to actually separate or are you drunk captaining. Got it ?

Seriously, realize your post has a lot of she and her So what is it that you want ?

ixyfang · 2019-07-13T01:04:55+00:00

Good post, alphasixfour. I think you are doing good.

My comments:

Religion: it’s really just someone else’s frame.
Wife always trying to get you to talk: you might be too available - not busy enough ...or... she is trained to think she can interrupt your space anytime she wants (negative) attention. So when she is acting appropriately, consider rewarding/reinforcing that behavior. The walls of your frame begin to dissolve if you don’t reinforce them - and with it, her sense of safety and security.
Rage: lifting is good but not great. Your brain hasn’t developed over millions of years to defeat rocks (weights). TRT and weights help the body and the sex but doesn’t feed the brain-mind-spirit like combat does. Highly, highly recommend you find a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school and start training. Your calm and SMV will increase exponentially and you will make friends with people (guys) that will listen to you, not because they want something from you, but because they actually care.

TRT and BJJ - the best therapy on the planet.

Aechzen · 2019-07-13T02:54:32+00:00

Any pro tips on how to explain to her once she starts communicating overtly exactly how you expect her to be and act?

When she followed you into the shower, still running her mouth... How about cover her mouth with your hand, tell her her clothes are soaked, undress her, bang her hard in the shower.

She wants to feel feelings. Change what she is feeling.

STFU is a damn good start. You might want to reread WISNIFG for some assertive communication. Specifically, broken record pisses the hell out of my wife. Incredibly effective and so simple even Rambo can remember it.

ManguZa · 2019-07-13T11:58:07+00:00

God she's all over the place.
Your weakness is not a weakness, all men are like that, we should being able to use strengh in these moments.
It's hard with certain women who don't know how comfort test properly. They want to be comforted but they instead of being respectuous they provoke you... hard times but they eventualy learn.

RedPill-BlackLotus · 2019-07-13T14:01:07+00:00

Didn't read a single thing about kids in that whole victim puke.

Why the fuck would you put up with this fucking harpy cunt? What value does she add? All I read is her shit testing and you failing miserably.

I have a weakness aswell. I always project myself into the situation when I read stories like this. We are all at different stages of our journey but this version of me would discard this woman. You do you man.

There are no victims in marriage, only volunteers.

Shit or get off the pot.

Tell me about your sixpack abbs....

BobbyPeru · 2019-07-13T03:54:16+00:00

I'm working my way out and will tell you about it in detail if you want to know. For now, just know that I am leaving.

I call BS. You are either in or you’re out. I lived in Utah, and I know how hard it is to be “out” completely. I’m sure you are going to DRER now about why you can’t get out just yet, but the only person buying that BS is you.

I think you’re creating a lot of unnecessary drama. If you want out, quit the church and let her keep going. End of story.

egc6 · 2019-07-15T20:30:21+00:00

I read a lot of the responses, but not all. Why don’t you ever leave when she is freaking the fuck out and won’t let it rest. Over all great progress in a tough situation but you don’t seem to make her feel any pain from stomping all over what should be a boundary. If her dread is so ramped up imagine how effective walking out of the house and coming back several hours later or the next day would be. Go do something more worth the time besides be a punching bag. Remember DARE? Remove yourself from the situation. Seems like you tell her all kinds of things with no consequences to her ignoring it.

alphasixfour · 2019-07-12T18:39:52+00:00

The number of "She"/"Her" statements here makes me think it's better for askMRP. It's a sure fire sign that the framing is based on an external rather than internal source. Also a surefire sign it's validation seeking.

Disclosure -- I haven't read it yet.

Mod note: I've removed this post because you threw in a tl;dr -- so I didn't read it. If you think people shouldn't read it, more than happy to make that happen.

Title	[FR] Update- on main events and how far I have yet to go
Author	alphasixfour
Upvotes	43
Comments	65
Date	July 12, 2019 4:44 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/ccda72/fr_update_on_main_events_and_how_far_i_have_yet/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/fr-update-on-main-events-and-how-far-i-have-yet-to.245275 https://theredarchive.com/post/245275