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Night time routine / talking / initiating

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July 18, 2019
9 upvotes

Going through the sidebar - I'm 3 or 4 books deep and continuing to read. Lifting 3x / week (stronglifts), got my nutrition dialed in and eating well, losing weight. Spending a lot more time outside the house and on my own activities - more time with my kids daily as well.

Wife is resisting my new attitude of DNGAF and being less beta. I'm also STFU a lot more. Still have a ways to go on my SMV but making steady progress. I know that's a big factor in her interest in sex and I know it will get better as my SMV improves but I still want to work on improving my game meanwhile.

Sex is roughly once every week or two on average, pretty vanilla, but I'm initiating more frequently. She mostly declines but I reset each morning and stay positive, don't get butthurt. I also stopped initiating after cuddling - keeping cuddling separate from initiating.

Also doing light kino throughout the day - a light touch or hug when I see her / walk by her / etc. My wife is not very affectionate - and that's not just with me - for example most of the time when she sees/greets her sister they don't even hug.

Okay so the question is on my night time routine...when I get to bed, I've been initiating right away. Last night for example, she started talking, I listened for a minute or so and then when there was a pause I initiated. She turned it down and said some stuff about me asking how she feels first bla bla. We talked for about a minute and then I rolled over and went with my normal routine of listening to some podcast then going to sleep.

I could tell she was feeling distant from me already and the chances were low she would want to have sex, but I'm working on initiating consistently even when I don't think she will accept it.

What I'm wondering is if I should talk to her for 20 minutes or so and then initiate. I know that I'm not supposed to combine cuddling with initiating, so I guess that's why I was hesitant to combine talking + initiating. I do feel like she feels more connected to me when we talk, and I also enjoy talking with her.

We don't really have a dinner time routine where we talk because I'm doing IF, so bed time is basically the first time of the day we have to actually talk to eachother one on one.

I want to avoid a covert contract of expecting sex after talking though - so I need to think of the talking as a separate activity, which I also enjoy and which creates connection between us, and whether or not sex happens after that is unrelated.

I know a lot of people say that you shouldn't initiate at night, but also I've seen a good number of people say it's fine, it's more about going about your regular routine if she declines, which is exactly what I've been doing. I just generally am a lot more in the mood at night, that's when *I* want to initiate.

So...should I go with talking for 20 minutes or so and then making my move?


Post Information
Title Night time routine / talking / initiating
Author redninja77
Upvotes 9
Comments 71
Date 18 July 2019 02:16 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/245869
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/cet1r4/night_time_routine_talking_initiating/
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Comments

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"11 points12 points  (15 children) | Copy

Keep going. Don't sweat it. Try not to be so robotic.

You're not a Commodore 64 that just had Basic programmed into it.

With that said, morning sex is a sure-fire way to beat the evening sex blues.

got my nutrition dialed in and eating well, losing weight.

How fat are you?

I also stopped initiating after cuddling - keeping cuddling separate from initiating.

What the fuck did you do that for? Ever hear of foreplay douchebag? I mean cuddling, shit, I don't necessarily know what that means to you maybe you're actually thumb wrestling.

I could tell she was feeling distant from me already and the chances were low she would want to have sex, but I'm working on initiating consistently even when I don't think she will accept it.

Don't take the "always be initiating" mantra too far - if your wife is giving you the cold shoulder, not interested, would rather fire up Richard Simmons Sweating with the Oldies, then perhaps hold off on your Casanovaesque sexual advances, especially if you're fat and disgusting.

I will tell you that redpillcoach wrote something a while back about listening to your wife. I paid attention and actively worked on listening to my wife. It was, frankly, hard at first. After all, I'd heard the same damn blah, blah, blah story for 15 fucking years. But then something interesting happened. As our relationship - including our sex life - has reached rare and exotic levels of awesomeness - I've actually found myself interested in what she has to say. Imagine that. I've also noticed that the more I listen, the more she fucks me, blows me, rapes me, and molests me. Imagine that.

(Of course all that goes without saying that I'm not, nor was I fat, fatass.)

We don't really have a dinner time routine where we talk because I'm doing IF, so bed time is basically the first time of the day we have to actually talk to each other one on one.

Christ, sperg my prior paragraph was clearly wasted on you. Why are you ignoring your wife all day you fucking mongoloid?

I want to avoid a covert contract of expecting sex after talking though - so I need to think of the talking as a separate activity, which I also enjoy and which creates connection between us, and whether or not sex happens after that is unrelated.

Jesus, dude, you keep separating out all your activities in such a dumbass binary manner: separate cuddles from sex, separate talking from sex, separate masculinity from you. Stop that.

So...should I go with talking for 20 minutes or so and then making my move?

Who the fuck cares? Clearly not your wife. Just lift more and stop eating donuts fatty.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

1 - Dump fat.

2 - Develop habit of nightcap alone at local bar.

3 - Initiate sex.

4 - If shut down, go to 2.

5 - Go to 1.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Not sure how serious this is? Can you flesh this out a little for me?

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

You're not attractive. Physically or emotionally. That's the fundamental problem.

If she behaves badly, remove your time and attention. Go away.

But reset every morning and continue to game and initiate. Be someone who is fun to be with.

Serious as fuck.

Read Steel's guide on the sidebar.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I've already read Steel's guide. I'm resetting every morning and I'm working on being more attractive physically and emotionally - lifting, losing weight (nutrition is dialed in), doing bjj, going hiking, doing more activities with the kids.

I know it will take time and I'm fine with that - I'm putting in the time.

My question is what to do in the meanwhile. You say "continue to game and initiate" - I'm doing exactly that but I'm asking for specifics on how to do so. I'm also reading MMSLP right now which I know has some good specifics on this topic.

LIke the nightcap thing alone at a local bar actually sounds like a pretty good idea - other than the fact that I'm not eating at night b/c of IF - I wasn't sure if you were serious about that or not?

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

One of the dilemmas that recur here is that the rule of removing your time and attention in response to bad behavior is tough to do because sex rejection usually happens at bedtime, so it's difficult to just get up and leave without the butthurt showing through.

The answer is to initate earlier, even to the point of timing it to your gym routine, or have some plausibile deniability as to why you're leaving the house at 10pm.

Going down to hang with the local bartender/play a game of pool/watch sportsball/discuss politics/ after she denies you sex is a damn good dread move, IF you've cultivated it as an independent activity, not a butthurt response to her behavior.

She'll soon Pavlov that not fucking you equals her being alone while your horny ass is out at a bar at ten pm.

Small but critical difference.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

thanks man I think I'm starting to get it

[–]Elvis_Death0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The main sub has new series, "meet the EC." I look forward to reading Fereallyred's entry. Always good stuff from you, sir.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. My questionnaire has been submitted.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Initiating after cuddling - I've seen that repeatedly on this sub.

Fat - 28% body fat - I know, I know I already got hammered on another thread about this. Like I said, SMV needs work and I'm actively working on it. I'm assuming my wife doesn't find me very attractive right now but I want to work on the rest of my game while I improve smv.

Dinner - the IF window works well for me and I have more quality time with the kids now after dinner taking them out to the pool and doing night time routine. Honestly dinner was generally a hassle previously - we have young kids so it's mostly arguing with them over finishing eating. I like the schedule better this way, although it's probably a good thing for me to get in some time together with them around dinner time if I'm around the house.

I already stopped eating donuts - like I said asshole, nutrition is on point right now. I'm covering all the bases to improve SMV - my quesiton is about what to do other than that.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

Bro, don't take your fragile-x syndrome out on us.

Here are some pointers based on your highly sensitive and whiny responses below:

  1. You're very fat.
  2. Stop eating donuts.
  3. Don't let your kids eat donuts.
  4. Lose weight.
  5. Increase your SMV, by being less fat.
  6. Exercise portion control.
  7. Exercise.
  8. Don't eat bagels, they're as bad as donuts.
  9. Stay away from pasta.
  10. Don't let your wife buy donuts.
  11. Understand the fine-line - the grey area - the ambiguity - between the following: (a) initiating "all the time" versus (b) initiating when "it was a decent move but again I knew that she wasn't in the mood or feeling connected so I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna work out," especially considering your move wasn't in any way, shape, or form decent, see #12 below. In the event you are spergier than anticipated, this means that there is no black-and-fucking-white, asshole, about initiating and not initiating but if you are fat - which you are - and your SMV is low - which yours is - and your frame is weak to the point of pathetic - which it clearly is based on your silly responses below - and your ability to think for yourself is lacking - obviously - then you should not go ultra-autistic and initiate all the goddamn time especially since you don't even talk to your wife during the day. Instead, if you want so much to practice "game" then get the fuck out of the house and practice with strangers, somewhere you'll never be seen again and the risk for getting arrested due to bizarre and obscene behavior is low.
  12. Understand further that when you write about communication that it "helps her to connect. If I jump right in without that it feels really weird to her" actually translates to you're so fat that your wife's visceral response to your initiations is that she is being raped by an obese homeless person with rancid body odor from scrounging through garbage.
  13. Know that the following commentary of yours, particularly, is bordering on pathetic: "In the case of last night, I just moved right in for a kiss with my hand on her face" and makes me wonder if you have a genetic abnormality.
  14. Stop eating donuts.
  15. Recognize that "gaming your wife" and "initiating" are not some kind of paint-by-numbers, memorize-for-the-test kind of acute activities or points in time. They represent a state of mind. A manner of being. Not something you read on Tuesday, implement on Wednesday, and master on Thursday.
  16. Slow down a bit, dumbass. Especially if you believe what I wrote above in #15. For Christ's sake, dude, give your poor wife a break. She's probably so weirded-out by your faggoty, obnoxious behavior - and if all your whiny responses to anonymous homos like me are any indicator - then she's probably being subjected to a litany of abuse and weirdness. Instead of coercing her into fucking you every 15 fucking minutes of every day why don't you go scuba diving.
  17. Increase your SMV.
  18. You're conflating cuddling with fucking because you're spergy and retarded and trying to learn too fast, without really absorbing much. There is mention of chilling on the cuddling because chicks often use cuddling to avoid fucking fat men who are addicted to donuts. As such, many newbie assholes learn to stop enabling that behavior. Understand, though, that with you going all ultra-rambo on everyone including your wife and probably the local gas station attendant, and especially since you ignore your wife all day because you've taken intermittent fasting to levels never seen before, you probably should cuddle with your wife because otherwise she doesn't even recognize you because you're acting like an actor in a movie who just read his lines and is spitting them back with vim and vigor, yet no conviction. Sure, women like to get man-handled and pounded into oblivion like there's no tomorrow, but you know what else they like? Foreplay, intimacy, killer sex, and yes, even cuddling.
  19. There is a process in play. You've been a fat-fuck asshole for a long-ass time, so it will take time. Imagine if your wife suddenly put on 100 pounds and then insisted on sitting her fat-ass, sweaty vagina on your face, while she watched Netflix and ate a taco. You wouldn't be so fucking happy about that would you? This is what you're putting her through. So once again, slow your roll.
  20. Stop eating donuts.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And for the love of God, stop eating donuts!

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. 100 pounds added sitting in your face cramming down a taco.

What the fuck are you on man ?

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

you probably should cuddle with your wife because otherwise she doesn't even recognize you because you're acting like an actor in a movie who just read his lines and is spitting them back with vim and vigor

Legitimately laughing out loud - you're a funny ass motherfucker.

Fucker I stopped eating the donuts already! I'm on a solid program right now with nutrition and weight lifting.

Anyways, I appreciate you taking the time to write that long ass reply even though half of it was inaccurate bullshit.

I actually think I'm starting to understand what I was doing wrong with initiating and I knocked that shit outta the park last night and today (updated in my recent OYS)

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

All right dude, you're still here and you took it on the chin and didn't whine more.

Good.

Believe it or not that puts you way ahead of most of the retards posting here.

All you need to keep in mind are these:

  1. Go slower, not faster. The vets amongst us can attest to that.
  2. Stay upbeat, don't get discouraged. Even when it doesn't go your way, which it often won't.
  3. Nothing is black and white. You'll have your wins and you'll have your losses but as long as you stay the course you have a great shot of winning the war. This whole evolution of yours is very much a game of attrition. Reset every day and don't expect miracles. Most of all, don't expect definitive answers from any book. Life is life, life is not a book.
  4. BPP's law is sacrosanct: what took time will take time.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Makes sense. Thanks man.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Being less beta? This whole post is about being more beta.

It was like a guy i read once that said he wants his wife to feel loved and cared for. Jesus Christ.

Actions show who you are. Words show who you pretend to be.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can you flesh that out for me? I'm working on being less beta - sftu, dngaf, lifting, gym, bjj, etc.

[–]SepeanRed Beret8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy

She'll want to fuck after your SMV improves, not after 20 minutes of talking. Your wife is not a puzzle that has to be solved just so, you have to stop thinking like that. Focus on you, forget about her. If you look good, have solid frame, can pass shit tests, then you're good. Thinking about her is pointless and frameless.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Be fuckable and get fucked - it’s amusing to look back and realize how worrying about shit like this was a complete waste of time.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Like I said, I'm actively working on improving SMV 100% - I got that dialed in. Are you saying don't initiate at all until SMV improves?

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hell no - you are a man who wants to fuck. Are you scared of that little pussy that sleeps next to you? If you are horny give her the shot to be the one to fuck you. Eventually she will or someone else will fill her spot.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Like I said, I'm actively working on improving SMV 100% - I got that dialed in. It sounds like you're saying I shouldn't initiate at all until my SMV goes up? If that's the best way to go, I have no problem with that. I can put my head down and just grind it out until my smv improves.

But I keep seeing people say on this sub that you *shouldn't* stop initiating. So what the hell is the deal?

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I iniated a ton, and got shot down a ton, when I started out. There's a limit to how much you should do before it gets over the top, but I can't tell you where it is. I wouldn't stop, but if you're getting shut down a week in a row I'd stop doing it every day. On the plus side, initiating is in itself alpha and not getting butthurt or deterred by rejection show frame. On the minus side, it gets annoying and over the top and can wear you down too - you have to feel those limits out.

What I'm saying is, stop listening to her BS about what you have to do and stop thinking there is some magic trick to get her in the mood. In the end it is your SMV (looks, frame, game) that will get her horny. If you want a promotion, get better at your job and make the company some profit instead of focusing on how to compliment your boss' tie.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thanks I think I'm starting to get the idea

[–]The_LitzRed Beret7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy

She doesn't want to fuck because you are predictable.

Learn to read her signals as well. You need some form of sexual tension between you two. If there is no tension she might give you starfish duty sex at best.

If you initiate every day just remember you are not a scarcity to her, she can have you whenever she wants. Work on that a little, ler her stew a little thinking 'I would have said yes if he initiated'

Watch her closely for when she initiates. My wife does it very subtly. I got it wrong for years, literally expecting her to lie there spread eagled.

Now HOW you initiate in bed is also important. Please please guys, stop this pathetic groping from behind. Don't lie in bed behind her back and hope to get her in the mood by touching her arm and moving around to her boobs.

BEFORE she even gets into bed pick her up and carry her to the room and dump her on the bed. Hide her pajamas when she is in the shower and make her come looking for them.

Don't initiate in the same manner twice in a row, mix it up.

[–]hack3geRed Beret4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hide her pajamas when she is in the shower and make her come looking for them.

As I started making progress this worked wonders - I would steal her pajamas and when she came looking tell her she had to earn them back.

Best was when she got wise and get new ones from the drawer so I decided to hide all of her pajamas and just leave a thong in the drawer. Good times were had after she told me “You are such a fucking asshole”

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

haha nice

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Stealing this

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s trademarked so make sure you let your wife know it’s not original content

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Initiating every day - I've seen over and over on this sub people saying to keep initiating. I'm getting very mixed signals now. Also noticing you don't have any flair so not sure whether to take this with a grain of salt.

> HOW you initiate in bed is also important

In the case of last night, I just moved right in for a kiss with my hand on her face.

> get her in the mood by touching her arm and moving around to her boobs

This is what I mean by not combining cuddling with initiating sex - I've stopped doing this kind of thing.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fixed flair for both of you.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

haha "Fat, but working on it" hell yeah I'll take it. I'm burning this fat faster than a motherfucker right now and I'll see you assholes in the 15% club in a few months

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not everyone is going to agree 100% on every little detail in here, so you also need to figure out what works for you.

Are you initiating because you are truly horny with a ballsack about to explode or are you initiating because you seek validation through sex?

Put in another way, can you truly say that you are not butthurt after multiple rejections? You are doing yourself self more harm by getting butthurt. Only initiate if you know for a fact you can handle the rejection.

You got the cuddles/sex thing right. They need fuzzy feelings too in order to run optimally. Strike the right balance between fuzzies and good hard sex.

[–]rpsheepdog2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This sounds boring as shit man. I know you're working on getting better, but waiting til the end of the night, talking for a few minutes, then trying to have sex like a formula is just anti-seductive. You're not going to talk your wife to want to have sex. She might do it out of duty, but that's it.

So...should I go with talking for 20 minutes or so and then making my move?

this isn't working, so no

[–]RPeed2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Thanks RPeed - so I'm hearing a lot that maybe I just shut up and work on my smv. Does that mean I stop initiating for now? If that's the move then I have no problem with it.

The confusion I have is that I keep seeing people say that you never stop initiating no matter what.

[–]RPeed1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

It means you stop posting on r/askMRP every week.

I'm not saying that to be a dick bro but really you need to put in some work.

Why? Why is this not being a dick?

Personally I think the most unattractive thing going on here is your mindset. I know guys fatter than you that slay and actually in your previous thread I thought maybe you'd be one of them. But here you are again requesting cheat codes, the same casual way that you'd ask for extra dip on the fully loaded nachos you eat between snacks, and that makes me think you are lazy and incapable of original thought.

You are a morbidly obese man, with a long road to being unattractive. In fact, I'd go far as to say you probably wear shorts with a belt and white sneakers. You are acknowledging that but somehow looking for "treats" along the way. For good behavior? I guess if mommy your wife really did love you she'd give you one.

Finally, the way you respond to everything politely disgusts me. Some people might identify it as "weak", in the sense that you're eager to please, however I think it's more likely the basest form of manipulation: the idea that by being super, super nice to people, they'll give you what you want in exchange for nothing.

Fuck. You.

You are someone that if we met IRL I would immediately remove myself from. But I don't shop in Walmart so that is unlikely to happen.

Read the sidebar.

EXECUTE it for a time.

This will give you space to identify:

What works for you

What might work but you just don't understand

What might work but you don't want to do

Then read it again.

Post in OYS about YOURSELF. About WHAT YOU ARE DOING. About what you GET now. About what you TRIED but you didn't get.

Stop asking fucking stupid questions:

Shut.

The.

Fuck.

Up.

As I said: not trying to be a dick.

Good luck.

[–]RP_PO0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For you not trying to be a dick, I bet he takes it really hard

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's like you motherfuckers think it's not possible to take 15 minutes to post a question while also putting in work. Whatever - I'll stop asking questions since you assholes can't seem to handle that. I've been putting in work every since starting MRP. Granted, 4-5 weeks isn't a long period of time, but I'm gonna keep this shit up and make you motherfuckers eat your words.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

But here you are again requesting cheat codes, the same casual way that you'd ask for extra dip on the fully loaded nachos you eat between snacks

legit laughing out loud.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

Depends, are you fuckable? I doubt it. If so, do whatever you want. If not stop worrying about this and worry about becoming fuckable. What's your body fat %?

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Down from 217 to 214. Navy method was like 40%

Fucker can't even see his own cock.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

We need to assign flair to anyone over 25% BF with the Flair "Fat Faggot" so we don't take any of their questions or posts seriously. Anyone remember the Louis CK bit about Cinnabon being a Fat Faggot Treat?

"Yeah, gimme a fat faggot treat. Yeah with the hot cum, I don't care. You think I have integrity right now?"

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hahaha where did bitch tits Bob go

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

fuck it - flair me - I'm hitting the nutrition and gym hard right now so I'll be out of 25% range within a week or two and on my way to some dope ass flair.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

mother fucking commando over here does his research. Yeah like I said assholes SMV needs work and is ACTIVELY being worked on 100% right now. The question is, given where I'm at there, how to handle initiation or whether to initiate at all.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The actual question should be - do you want sex or don't you?

If you don't, then don't bother initiating.

If you do, then initiate.

However, if you do initiate, remember that she'll probably tell your fat ass to fuck off. And who can blame her? You're in purgatory at the minute and it's all your own doing.

Suck it up, lard ass.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly faggot - you keep asking men on the internet if you should try and fuck your wife. Take a hard look at yourself right now and how much of a little bitch you are being.

Pissed off at yourself? Good now do something about it - fucking lift and maybe when you can OHP your wife’s weight her pussy won’t be dry like the Sahara.

[–]FoxShitNasty832 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I bet 200lbs + and 25 to 30% fat.... 65% spunk and sub 5% spine.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

this motherfucker nailed it although I don't know what the fuck you mean by spunk and spine.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

For fuck sake, retard, I said in the OP that my SMV *needs work* and I'm working on it right now as much as humanly possible. Body fat is not great - I already got lambasted in another thread for that.

So like I said, I understand that I'm probably not attractive to her right now.

Does that mean I simply stop initiating altogether until SMV improves? I keep seeing motherfuckers on here say DON'T STOP INITIATING EVER so I've been going with that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I honestly don't get the advice of always initiating. If you are unattractive and have no game why would initiating all the time produce different results?

I would personally stop initiating until you have a higher smv. Unless you are fairly certain she wants dick don't offer. Do you know how to tell if a woman is interested? Are you getting shit tests and passing?

And when you say you are working on it, are you making it your life goal? If not, you aren't working hard enough.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds like my bedtime routine for a portion of my marriage... cringe worthy now. 1+ year into RP she now wants me to fuck her every night before bed and then she will talk afterwards... It helps when you develop a body that she is staring at the moment you get out of the shower. It also helps when I let her do some of her talking earlier in the day (dinner time for example) so she doesnt feel like I went all day without hearing her.

Initiating sex after a '20 minute talk' isnt really any ones idea of a sexually charged scenario.

Doesn't seem like you have kids.. I do.. so I want the family eating dinner together. This is not hard because my wife wants the same thing. I would pick a IF window that facilitates things you want in life.

Just keep working on it, nothing is a quick turnaround here

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the reply. We do have kids. Actually dinner was generally pretty annoying it was basically arguing with them to finish eating. We have much more quality time now that I take them out to the pool every night and do bed time routine.

I know it's a bit weird not to have a dinner routine but I think it's working fine for us. Is it really that big of a deal to spend time talking together after the kids are asleep at night? I'm not sure I get it.

> It helps when you develop a body that she is staring at the moment you get out of the shower
Yeah I fucking know this - like I said I'm working on smv and I know that's a major factor - the question is how to handle things right now when smv isn't great but is improving. Do I just hold off on initating for a while? I keep seeing people say that you should never stop initiating.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Keep initiating when you are horny. If you read the books, accept your sexual nature and lift weights you will be more horny... Do not suppress it.. but also; dont expect her to give you great sex.

I never said you need to schedule 'talk' time. I said dinner time is a good time for her to typically tell me her stories. I do not schedule talk time with her. Its either 'lets do something together time' or 'lets fuck' time.

[–]helaughsinhidden1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

when I get to bed, I've been initiating right away ...... she started talking, I listened for a minute or so and then when there was a pause I initiated

So, you wait until you are both going to sleep and call that "right away"? Sounds like you are waiting until the last minute to me.... until I keep reading anyway. You don't even do that right away, you let her start talking and wait for a pause? Sounds like she is still in charge then, wouldn't want to interrupt the boss, right? Weak.

What I'm wondering is if I should talk to her for 20 minutes or so and then initiate.

Hell no. Initiate in the kitchen and TAKE her to the bedroom. Grab her ass earlier in the night, even if just 10 minutes, kiss her neck, go in for something intimate outside the room. Then don't ask "do you wanna....?", you tell her "let's take THIS (grabbing her ass) to the bedroom". Maybe take her right there on the counter or the bathroom or push her over to the couch and bend her over the arm without saying a dam word. Be passionate, waiting until you are both almost asleep is boring anyway. Make her wait for her needs to get met after yours.

I want to avoid a covert contract of expecting sex after talking though

Acting entitled is definitely unattractive, especially if it is transactionally related to something like "talking", initiation should be about what YOU DESIRE. Consider these two scenarios.

*wife is talking* Barry Beta thinks he deserves sex after having earned it by doing the dishes, respecting his wife's decision to get new yellow drapes and listening to her talk about her Aunt's latest hospital visit. She saw it coming because he does it every night and is annoyed and feels like a flesh-light.

*wife is talking* Chad is distracted by his wife's cleavage and wants to see more so he starts to breath harder, slowly raises his finger up to his wife's mouth to shut her up so he can kiss her, then move his face down to those boobs because they are making him horny and he likes it and that's just want he wants to do. She doesn't know what's come over him, but his passion is giving her feelz.

Questions about your game:

What do you consider "initiating"?

Like specifically, are you touching her and giving Groucho Marx eyebrow raises, are you leaning in to kiss, are you asking with words by saying "do you want to have sex"? How does she even know for sure you are even asking or implying sex.

What are you doing for KINO?

You mention that she is not overtly affectionate, but that doesn't mean anything about what does and doesn't feel good and give her feelz. KINO is extremely important, do it anyway.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the details that's helpful. Again it's not that the sex is transacitonally related to talking. It's that I think we need some time each day to talk to eachother. Helps her to connect. If I jump right in without that it feels really weird to her. Again this has a lot to do with my smv not being great right now. I Know that will change as I build muscle and reduce fat.

Initiating - like last night I just moved in for a kiss after there was a pause in the conversation and put my hand on her face. It was a decent move but again I knew that she wasn't in the mood or feeling connected so I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna work out.

Kino - I'll give her a hug when I walk by her in the house, maybe come up behind her and give her a hug in the kitchen, things like that. Nothing too fancy.

[–]BostonBrakeJob1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Look my man, you can sit in math class all day and solve problems on paper, but at some point ya gotta get your ass up and start applying those skills.

You've checked all the boxes and it's still "not working". Why?

[–]TurdDoctor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I know a lot of people say that you shouldn't initiate at night

That's true but you should initiate whenever you want to, not "when you're supposed to." Your speech, actions, and attitude should be sexual if you're horny. Assuming you are attractive (or when you become attractive), she will respond.

Be careful that your initiations are not about about seeking validation.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're not answering the question at all. I said "Still have a ways to go on my SMV but making steady progress" let's just say I'm not attractive for the assholes that can't read. I'm working on that actively right now. My question is what to do in the meanwhile while I'm working on that.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

said some stuff about me asking how she feels first bla bla

For fuck sakes have some fun with it faggot. How about grabbing her ass and whispering in her ear that she feels pretty good but is going to feel even better in a few minutes - while kissing her neck. Honestly you shouldn’t believe shit that comes out of her mouth - they have no clue what they want or what puts them in the mood. If I believed anything my wife said we would still be having gentle missionary sex once every 3-4 months - instead she’s getting fucked hard and rough every night - glad I didn’t listen to a word she had to say.

Also, you have heard of responsive desire right? You are telegraphing basically asking mommy for permission to fuck her - woman want to be taken by a man who can’t help himself but you are clearly too much of a pussy to take what you want.

Sometimes my wife is catching up with me in bed and I just stare at her tits or ass and growl and say enough I can’t take it anymore and just rip her clothes off. I take that pussy like I own it and she loves it.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No I haven't heard of responsive desire - is there one of the books in the sidebar that covers it?

> Sometimes my wife is catching up with me in bed and I just stare at her tits or ass and growl and say enough I can’t take it anymore

This is actually pretty much exactly what I'm talking about - having some time to catch up in bed and then initiating somewhere in there. I just didn't describe it as passionately as you did so everyone is telling me I'm a fucking robot.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Most of the important stuff has already been said here, but I want to emphasize that you need to quit this getting shot down every night. You should already know the answer before you initiate.

Quit all this blue pill thinking about what actions you need to take for her to want to fuck you.

Here are the actions you need to take: Lift, become fuckable, and work on your frame.. But do it for yourself. Become awesome, and the sex will be a side effect.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So why the hell do I keep reading everywhere on this sub that you shouldn't ever stop initiating? Is that only for people who's body fat is under a certain %? I'm confused as hell.

Like I said, I'm 100% working on lifting, nutrition, frame, becoming fuckable - that shit is dialed in hard. My question is what to do meanwhile while those things are improving. Do I just stop initiating altogether?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So why the hell do I keep reading everywhere on this sub that you shouldn't ever stop initiating?

You’re being autistic and taking “don’t stop initiating “ literally. Always initiate doesn’t mean every day. It means consistently. Kino is usually a good gauge of your chances. You are a fat fuck right now, so focus mostly on lifting, cutting that weight, and STFU

Finish the sidebar, and some of this stuff will become clearer

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do I just stop initiating altogether?

what do you want?

[–]unnaturalcontrol0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Where does this keeping sex separate from cuddling come from? Is there an article or something I missed on that? Wtf.

[–]redninja77Fat, but working on it[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I've seen that shit over and over on this sub - don't have the time to pull it up right now.

[–]unnaturalcontrol0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok. I’ll look it up. I haven’t seen it before.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Man, I’m just ducking creeped.

Lose the fucking weight.

In the meantime, quit being so fucking needy



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