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Won't sign up as the FO despite massive improvement. Kill the puppy?

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July 21, 2019
14 upvotes

1.5yrs since I found MRP. 315sq, 340dl, 155bp (rehabbing left shoulder), 5'11 185. I've lost 40ish lbs and gained a ton of muscle. Read literally 100% of sidebar, need to circle back as it's been 3-4 months since I've spent time studying it. Two awesome kids, 8 and 3.

I've owned my shit. Better life, crushing my career, consistent at the gym, actually practiced a lot of baseball with my son so I'm back ripping lasers in Amateur ball, etc. Life is good. 

  

 

My wife lost her shit the first time I didn't apologize for something I wasn't sorry about. I was such a doormat. Tried to change slowly, went semi-Rambo. Wife wound up meeting up with an old fling some and making some bad decisions at month 4ish (lied to me, they made out, which I am 98% certain is the truth -- I could detail why but it's irrelevant). Talk about making outcome independence easy. My default since then is that were getting divorced unless she proves herself to be a better wife, a better Mom, etc. 

  

 

If that happened right now, I'd file the next day. I told her the only reason we have a chance is the kids. I was such a pile of shit that I'm starting to let it go. I'll never view women the same, especially her. AWALT. She has owned her mistake and gave me all her passwords, checks in enthusiastically and basically doesn't do anything without my permission. 

   

  

She's been... awesome the past 10-12 months. Feminine, submissive, clean, cooks all the time and she's doing "I would never do that" stuff in the bedroom (anal, swallowing, etc.). Comfort tests are occasionally, shit tests are rare. She has added a ton of value to my kids and my life. She was a worthless iPhone addict and now she's legitimately what I need from a wife. 

 

  

A months ago, I outlined my future and what it would take to be a part of it. Captain, FO.  She also was to take my last name (she kept hers... so blue pill). She didn't agree and said that's a lot to think about. I told I want this version of her on my team but I will have an awesome life either way. She has been embracing the model herself for months, she just didn't know it. 

 

  

A couple weeks ago, I checked in on her search history and saw, "how to send secret messages." After kids went to bed, I asked her if she had anything to share, she didn't, so I told her we'd be getting divorced and outlined how it would go down. She was confused and quite sad. I fucked up -- she showed me her browser immediately showing that her search was based around dread. My phone has been buzzing at night and she was afraid it was other women. From looking at it, it's clear that's what happened. 

    

  

She said that she's scared, walking on egg shells, and worried that I'll file at the drop of a hat. I reiterated I want her on my team but divorce is an okay option if she doesn't want to sign on. I ended the conversation as it started so heated and told her we could address the marriage/last name thing. 

  

  

I should mention that she's all sorts of ego invested in "partner" marriages and keeping her last name, etc. I knew that when we got together, but fucking agreed at the team. Damn I hate that version of myself. 

 

  

The next day, she told she can't sign up for that marriage. She wants someone that sees her as an equal, etc. She told me how much she loves me, loves our life, etc but she can't do it. 

 

 

I told her that I wouldn't have married her if I didn't think she was smart, talented, etc and that I know she naturally defers to me. But if she wasn't able, that's fine. 

 

 

So, I'm proceeding with the divorce. We're meeting jointly with a lawyer to tangle out some weird financial nuances then work with the attorney I met with months ago to ensure I don't screw anything up. Everything is split up, custody has been outlined and agreed upon, etc. I moved into the guest room to avoid having to "talk about it" all the time. 

 

 

Then a few days ago, she told me she'd take my last name but not be unequal. Same conversation. She feels horrible, loves me so much but can't give up that part of herself. Understood, but that's not ok for any marriage I'll be a part of. No worries. 

 

  

Since then, she's been coming down to my room to fuck my brains out. It's all she has left, throwing her body at me. It's fun, but it doesn't change anything for me. 

 

 

My assessment is that she's doesn't want to lose me, but her ego investment in feminist marriage -- her actions tell me she's there but the words don't follow. I am at this point a bit prematurely in retrospect, that's a factor.

  

 

She's a damned good wife at this point and made some huge, positive changes in nearly all factors of her life. But, I'm sure as hell not going to continue the marriage in her frame. I've tried that, it's a fucking nightmare. 

  

My background is sales. This feels like a negotiation where in party has no leverage. Very often, the simply need a win. Any win, some compromise. I've legitimately won $100k deals by saying no to everything, getting to a stalemate, then offering to send some swag to secure the deal. And it worked. My gut tells me she needs some swag. But, I know buyers more than women... 

 

 

Is there something I could do to give her a path to my future? Or, does a solid future for me require her to give a part of herself and turn her back on the ego investment?  

  

 

Any advice is appreciated. 

 


Post Information
Title Won't sign up as the FO despite massive improvement. Kill the puppy?
Author NotResultsOriented
Upvotes 14
Comments 49
Date 21 July 2019 10:14 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/246184
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/cg4ui0/wont_sign_up_as_the_fo_despite_massive/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
AWALTdread gameframeshit testcomfort testthe blue pillfeminist
Comments

[–]SepeanRed Beret44 points45 points  (4 children) | Copy

Don’t listen to her words, look at what she does.

Seriously, she does everything you want, but she also has to say you’re superior or you’ll divorce her?

That is all there is to it? You didn’t bury the lead somewhere?

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

When you boil it down, that's it. And I think you reframed it how she's looking at it. "I want this, but I'm doing my best and it's not enough. And he wants me to bow to him. Where does it end?" or so.

Thank you.

[–]JudgeDoom699 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

She does everything you ask, but you're so insecure it's not good enough because she won't say "NotResultsOriented, you are the king" out loud. You're overplaying your hand.

And the name thing is irrelevant. You should drop that shit. It's another sign of your insecurity and weakness. If she's yours, she's yours, regardless of what name is on her drivers license.

You're selling after the close. Take the win and keep improving yourself. Work on developing your own frame and self esteem regardless of what she says or does.

And move back into your bedroom for fuck's sake.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're 100% right.

[–]0io-Tsundere31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy

My opinion is you're talking too much about Fight Club.

If she's a "damn good wife" then don't get divorced. To me it sounds like she's been moving in the right direction ("sex has improved", "cooks", "cleans", "awesome").

If you didn't get divorced right after she had the affair (your call), then why are you doing it now when she's making all these improvements?

I don't think you should be talking about your vision for the relationship and telling her you're going to take the lead. You just have to do it, and from what you're saying she's been trying to keep you happy.

Edit: I don't know your whole situation but it sounds to me like you're still in Rambo mode. Slow your roll. Since you have kids, etc, and it doesn't sound like you're miserable, I'd wait a year or two and re-evaluate then.

Edit2: Staying out of her frame has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. Live on your own terms and you'll never be "in her frame".

Edit3: If I were you, I'd stop checking her phone regularly. It just makes you look insecure and needy. If I understood what you wrote, you used to be shitty, so she was looking around to find someone better, and now you're no longer shitty, so she wants to stay with you.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks a ton for this. I think you touched on a lot of shit that I'm fumbling.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do you see anything alarming here?

  • Wife cheats, only 2% chance it was "bad" cheating.
  • You're so cool and throw a mean fast ball with middle-schoolers.
  • You refer to your wife as "worthless."
  • You refer to yourself as a "doormat."
  • She has such a great life that she enjoys "getting divorced unless she proves herself to be a better wife."
  • Feeling either (1) disinterested, (2) disturbed, or (3) irritated, she searches "how to send secret messages," or perhaps she didn't.
  • She acknowledges that she's "walking on eggshells" with her tough, masculine husband who's changed so much.
  • She agrees to your gay-ass ultimatum but says she doesn't want to be your slave.
  • It "doesn't change anything" for you, yet you post here to a group of mongol idiots for advice.
  • You blah, blah, blah a bunch of irrelevant dreck about sales, hoping to make your obvious insecurity to those whose consul you seek seem less, well, obvious.
  • Then you defer your newly-found, tough-guy choice to others.

Thoughts?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. Slow clap. You nailed it 100%.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret29 points30 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well Captain Rambo, it looks like the FO has acceded to every one of your demands but one: she will not bend her knee to you. And so, in your infinite wisdom, despite having been a shit Captain from the beginning, and hiring a known mutinous FO in the first place, you have ordered the FO to walk the plank.

Since the time YOU have started acting like a Captain in the last year, your FO has stopped their mutinous tendencies, gotten their shit together, demonstrated their loyalty, and followed every one of your commands as well as carry forth your vision, except one.

Read literally 100% of sidebar, need to circle back as it's been 3-4 months since I've spent time studying it.

Read it literally 9 more times. How much other shit in your life did you absorb 100% the first time through? I'll bet you were a fucking idiot savant in college. Never studied, did no homework, just read the course material once and passed the class well enough to teach it to someone else. No? Circle back. Now. And NEVER stop reading.

I was such a doormat. Tried to change slowly, went semi-Rambo.

So YOU were fucked up, made changes, and your FO hasn't changed fast enough to suit you, so it's "WALK THE PLANK, BITCH!"

Wife wound up meeting up with an old fling some and making some bad decisions at month 4ish (lied to me, they made out, which I am 98% certain is the truth...

She's a woman...and GASP!... in the face of her fucked up Captain she decided to start interviewing legitimate Captains. Look, YOUR truth is whatever YOU choose to BELIEVE. I'm not going to come down on one side or the other, for/against making your hypergamous slut walk the plank. What DOES matter, is what you believe in your heart and can live with. If you can live with your truth, then as it is written, so let it be done.

She has owned her mistake and gave me all her passwords, checks in enthusiastically and basically doesn't do anything without my permission.

Esther Perel would be proud of her. She ACTS penitent. Does she have the same access to YOUR personal shit? Looks like a rather large crack in her wall of 'equality,' if she doesn't have access. Acta, fuck verba.

You can go back and read my original post, the reason why I'm here. If MY wife had done this, I'd still be married. But she didn't. I didn't find this place until a year later, so I fucked up a lot. I went RAMBO with a squirt gun. I think I actually came up with new colors of blue for the pill.

She's been... awesome the past 10-12 months. Feminine, submissive, clean, cooks all the time and she's doing "I would never do that" stuff in the bedroom (anal, swallowing, etc.). Comfort tests are occasionally, shit tests are rare. She has added a ton of value to my kids and my life. She was a worthless iPhone addict and now she's legitimately what I need from a wife.

I want you to reread that last paragraph. Seriously, go ahead, it will take you 10 seconds. We have a saying around here, watch her actions, not her words. It's a universal concept. "A picture paints a thousand words." Only in your case, you love the picture she painted, but hate the brush she used, so you hate the picture, too? "Your actions are so loud I can't hear what you're saying." Again, she is DOING everything you want, but will not utter the one sentence you want to hear, so it's "WALK THE PLANK, BITCH!"

A months ago, I outlined my future and what it would take to be a part of it. Captain, FO. She also was to take my last name (she kept hers... so blue pill). She didn't agree and said that's a lot to think about. I told I want this version of her on my team but I will have an awesome life either way.

She kept her last name because of YOU! And now, she's not changing it fast enough to suit you? Oh wait, we'll circle back to this later, kinda like you reading the sidebar.

She has been embracing the model herself for months, she just didn't know it.

But that wasn't good enough, for now, was it? "You have done everything that I have asked and my ship and it's crew is better for it. I am pleased. But if you will not bow the knee to me, right now, you can WALK THE PLANK, BITCH!"

She said that she's scared, walking on egg shells, and worried that I'll file at the drop of a hat.

I should mention that she's all sorts of ego invested in "partner" marriages and keeping her last name, etc. I knew that when we got together, but fucking agreed at the team.

So YOU created this shitstorm...

Damn I hate that version of myself.

You BOTH have that in common..

I told her that I wouldn't have married her if I didn't think she was smart, talented, etc and that I know she naturally defers to me. But if she wasn't able, that's fine.

Did you read your post before you hit 'save'? You KNOW she naturally defers to you, but if she wasn't able....to do what? I'll comment obliquely on this later...

So, I'm proceeding with the divorce.

Excellent. I love it when women get called out on their bullshit by high value, high quality men who dump them for the lazy, hypergamous whores that they are. Especially when the women change completely from the beginning of the marriage and refuse to cook, clean, swallow, take it up the ass, and add absolutely no value to the marriage whatsoever. Wait...did she change from that, or into that?

Then a few days ago, she told me she'd take my last name but not be unequal.

Sounds like the wall of feminism has fallen, but the fact that the rubble hasn't been cleared away fast enough, you are launching the nukes anyway. Fuck 'em. They did everything you asked, but they didn't say what you wanted them to say fast enough so now it's, "SCORCHED EARTH BABY! Take THAT, you BITCHES!!"

Since then, she's been coming down to my room to fuck my brains out. It's all she has left, throwing her body at me. It's fun, but it doesn't change anything for me.

Wow, it must suck to be you. This is hysterical bonding. But in the wake of everything else she has already done, it's noteworthy.

My assessment is that she's doesn't want to lose me, but her ego investment in feminist marriage -- her actions tell me she's there but the words don't follow.

HER ego investment? You think the problem here is HER ego investment? More on this to come...

She's 'there' with her actions, but NOT ALL of her words. Not EVERY SINGLE ONE, so it's, "WALK THE PLANK, BITCH!"

My background is sales.

Fuck you. Your 'background' needs to be the SIDEBAR.

I'm relatively new around here. 2 years from where I started is not that far. But from your post, I can't see how much of this marriage you are living in her frame.

You are a narcissistic, egotistical, asshole that wouldn't know a good deal if it came to your house, took care of your kids, cleaned up your shit, cooked your food, swallowed your cum, and let you fuck it in the ass.

She had to wait how long for YOU to get your shit together?

But HER shit still has a slight odor to it so it's, "WALK THE PLANK, BITCH!"

Well, Captain Jackass, she's YOUR bitch, and it's YOUR marriage, so if you are that fucking unhappy with her, then blow the shit up. I mean, nuke that mother-fucker from orbit.

But think, just for a moment, what exactly you are looking for in a woman? Here you have proven she will do (almost) all for you and in time, probably EVERYTHING. She's trying to fit your container. She's trying to please you. Deep down, she WANTS to submit to you. Her culturation in the gynocracy is at odds with millennia of biological programming. 60 fucking years of bullshit that has turned MEN into empty shells of masculinity, how much more is the feminist dogma ingrained in those who were the original target of it..

You've come so far, and gotten so much. But hey, if she's just the fucking loser you have portrayed her to be and you can do better, then dump that cunt. Right now.

Because honestly, with a little more level-headedness and patience, with as many changes as she has made at your DEMANDS, think how much further you could take her with some LEADERSHIP.

Read some posts by u/hack3ge , or u/Nec_sorte_Nec_fato, or scores of others who struggled to get their wives 'online'.

I used to be a manager in a worldwide corporation. While other managers were notching their desks with terminations, I used to rehabilitate, re-educate, and re-evaluate employees. I got harder working employees who were loyal and shared my vision. My span of control was the best in 11 states. And yes, I still terminated the bad ones, including my wife. She has a lot of great qualities, but at the end of the day she was a lying, hypergamous, whore.

Your wife is following you. She just isn't singing every one of your songs.

You can always divorce her. You've shown you're willing, and she's shown she wants you to stay.

Any advice is appreciated.

Here's my advice...

Give it some more time.

She's on the path to your future, and as long as you are LEADING, you will find her whistling YOUR tune as well.

[–]RiderHood2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. Exactly this

[–]Grimsterr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He wouldn't need to hear so many of her words if he'd learn to STFU.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the bleeding rectum I deserve. Tons of truth. Pretty much nothing I disagree with.

Appreciate it.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're a paper tiger.

Appear fierce on the surface but that's just ego and illusion.

Why?

You still defer to your wife.

It's not doormat level anymore, true, but you still talk about your goals/aspirations/wants/needs/visions/expectations.

You're consulting her. Why do you do that?

You're halfassing it.

Threatening divorce. Checking her phone. Investigating her. Leaving the master bedroom but not leaving. You do this, bitch, or I'll do that!

Little boy throwing tantrums for attention but just not grown up enough to take charge and stop engaging with mommy.

This screams that you still are in her frame, but your ego insists you are a big boy, so you're holding your breath and stomping your feet as hard as you can. That'll show her!

Who are you doing all this for?

Remember reading that if you're not willing to burn it all down then you finished before you start?

She still runs you.

Hence the spare room fuck sessions.

You're dependent on her reaction and investment for your outcomes.

What's your dread level? You following the one month per year rule?

Because this sounds like you're still a beginner.

[–]RStonePT7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

After you have the ultimatum I stopped reading.

https://youtu.be/BqxxefMUwv0

For source material from the video check

https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/

And

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/am42af/firstly_get_the_fuck_out/

One of my favorite guys on here /u/fuckmrp made a very clear statement.

Anyways, she called your bluff, your move champ. Miller lite masculinity won't save you

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

/u/fuckmrp's post is perfect... if you don't have young kids. The mother of my children has the inside path because it's in the best interests of my kids, who are the two single most important things in existence.

Which is why I'm in this situation that I'm impressively fucking up.

I appreciate the time in sending me to the right places. I watch most of your videos and read 100% of your Tweets (up until I decided to stop spending so much time on my phone a few months ago) -- you're really fucking right almost all the time. Thank you.

[–]RStonePT1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not me, I've got a good memory and read everything in this space is all.

Luckly there's a hundred more of me here without the need to make pancakes

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your French toast is basic as fuck. No nutmeg?

[–]RStonePT1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes basic, that's not an accident

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

I’m surprised nobody said it, but here’s what I think Rambo. You can’t get over the cheating that happened (and are you sure it was just a kiss), so now your hamster brain is rationalizing why you should divorce her.

So, you blame it on something totally gay , like admitting inequality.

What. The. Fuck.

No woman is going to ever agree to that verbally, but they will in their actions. And I believe she has in her actions.

Admit the truth to yourself- you can’t get over the affair.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I've thought about this a lot since I originally read your comment. I need to either come to terms with it or realize I'm not. Fucking random dude on the internet peers into my soul more easily than I can.

Time to own my mistake, give the wife some stability and deserved comfort and get back to work.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bobby is right that you're not over the affair, but he missed a point: you're punishing her for it. Pure and simple.

Oh, and she fucked him. Sorry.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'll never 100% know, so I need to bury it for the sake of the family.

I know you don't give a fuck so I won't explain, but despite everything I've read on trickle truth, etc, I have a couple sources of information that have me comfortable that I know the whole story.

Doesn't help to rehash the details over and over. Mental masturbation thinking about Schroedinger's affair. I am willing to proceed to give my kids a two parent household with a woman that's consistently, actively trying to atone and please me.

In fucking thinking about it, I'm realizing my last name bullshit is a pathetic, subconscious quid pro quo. I'm wholly embarrassed with my inability to see my own bullshit.

When I brought it up she explained that "it's core to who I am", "I have said it since we started getting serious", "I'd resent it every time I saw it because it's so important to me." Her saying that fueled the ultimatum. It's how I view her infidelity. It's damned important to me to not have a cheating wife. I'm making a concession for the greater good, I'm bearing the weight of her horrible decisions. It's the least she could do. And she at least gets to see it coming, blah, blah, blah.

But, what the fuck. I know better than to (a) deal in coercive ultimatums and (b) negotiate with women.

I really need to get my shit together and get my head out of the gutter. This is basic shit and I fumbled the vast majority of it.

Mainly, I need to royally shut the fuck up.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've thought about this a lot since I originally read your comment. I need to either come to terms with it or realize I'm not.

Put a time frame on it, otherwise you’ll most likely just keep pushing the goal posts back

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

It sounds like she was already operating as a FO. You need to hear her overtly submit only because of your ego. She seems to do everything you want and yet it’s not good enough. That’s for you to decide, but seems like you need her to say magic words like “I submit to you lord and master” to make yourself feel high value. Some women can’t verbalize it and refuse to consciously want to submit. But in everything your wrote she already had... so what’s the issue?

Also stop looking at her browser history.

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You seem to forget that wifey played the whore. She had another man's tongue, if not penis, in her mouth. And, you think the bro is being a fuckwit for wanting her submission??

In better times, she would have been stoned. She should give him AtM for the honor of being his slave!

Further, isn't an RP maxim that if they cheat once, they will again? OP needs to be ready for HER to make the swing. She's already making herself the victim ("I'm walking on eggshells!")

Pretty soon this will morph into mental abuse...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It really doesn't matter what she had in her mouth. If OP wants to leave her over the cheating then go for it (I would). But don't invent a story to tell yourself of "she won't bow down and plead fealty out loud" when she's showing in her actions that she ALREADY has submitted.

I'd leave the cheating whore if it was me, but it's not so OP needs to decide that on his own.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy

You know how sometimes you push so hard to get what you want, and you just make it worse? You're trying so hard to sell her what YOU think she wants.

Well guess what she doesn't want it. You have no frame, you're a mini Rambo. Yes she is responding to dread but that doesn't fit with her feminist model.

Go through with the divorce or back off and lead. There's no 'sweetening the deal', with steak knives. She looking at the value of the product and she's both confused and unsure it's the right thing.

Fyi she's looking to by FRAME. Make some.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

You're completely right. I wind up telling her what I think she wants. What the fuck. Act non verba. Less making demands, more purusing excellence.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm in a very similar spot. You have a massive ego and think your product is worth more than it is. Your wife is like a potential client that knows you are a faggot before you ever get to the table. She has experienced years of you being a faggot and a short pause from that does not negate the past. You are still a faggot and she knows it too.

Slow down and stop being such an ego maniac and think about your children. This is a long game. Sounds like you have a good girl and you are being a dick. Everything is your fault so shut the fuck up and keep leading her without so much Rambo nazi shit. I am telling myself the same message. My wife literally said "I don't want to join team Hitler." Right now today, she is on the team and will be begging for my cock later tonight because she has been such a good girl and I am going to reward her. Slow the fuck down. Good luck.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't want to join team Hitler.

Lol, I like your wife.

[–]friendandadvisor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When she got pissed at him, she ran to another man and kissed/fucked him. How does this sound like she is a good girl??

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The demands are most likely validation based, my guess is to prove her submission after the pash / affair event.

If you're in redpill as far as you say you should be close to true OI. Only then will you lose the ego and move on.

I would suggest rereading way of the superior man again.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And yuppppp. Thinking through this, you're spot. Fucking. On. changing her last name is fully rooted in making her do something I know she doesn't want to do to prove to me shes... I don't know, what the fuck ever adjective.

I have work to do.

[–]coinbaserep1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My wife tells me she doesn’t like being tied up but gets off hard when she her hands are bound. She also said I’m too rough and she doesn’t like being manhandled and that’s not what a man does to his wife. But I have to wipe her pussy with a towel several times a session so we can feel any friction.

Watch what’s she does not what she says

Sounds like she’s making all attempts, but your not looking for a wife you want a slave

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's so true. "I don't like being spanked or choked. You are rapey. " Tell that to your pussy, she likes it.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You need to stop trying to make her admit to anything.

Your frame literally needs to be that your train is moving. She’s on it or not. What she says doesn’t matter....unless it’s disrespectful then a whole other deal.

[–]JameisBong4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you have genuinely improved,demote her immediately and find her replacement. I don't think negotiating does any good,she either trusts your lead or she doesn't. No in-between.

[–]Rogue684862 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You've been talking about fight club.

Faggot

Sign up as First Officer? Wtf?

Keep looking for the worst and you'll find it.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's a damned good wife at this point and made some huge, positive changes in nearly all factors of her life. But, I'm sure as hell not going to continue the marriage in her frame. I've tried that, it's a fucking nightmare. 

This is the key to all your problems - you are living your life in her frame and you are doing this because you have no frame. Ego, yes, frame, no.

Your ego is strong and it's telling you how great you are for lifting, for reading the sidebar, for being able to say "no". It's telling you how great a Nue Man you have become and that you deserve more than she is giving you. It's not enough that she's become a great wife. It's not enough that she's DTF. It's not enough that she has become submissive. It's not enough, your ego tells you - the bitch must submit. And the bitch must change her name. The ego says so.

Why? Why do you need this? Because you have no frame. If you did, you would have realised that she has made every effort to enter your frame. The problem is that now, she's still trying to enter, but there's no way in.. there is a door but it only opens up to your ego. The door to your frame is locked and you've lost the key.

You got what you wanted, now you don't want what you have. You've seen women's hypergamy in action. You've realise that AWALT is true. If you had frame, if you had true OI, you would simply accept this as being part of a woman's nature. You would accept that your actions were what caused the wheels of hypergamy to be put in motion. You would see it for what it is. Then you'd accept that knowledge - embrace it and move on as you see fit.

But you lack frame and your ego won't let you move on. The affair (to whatever extent it went to) hurt you. It hurt you to the point that now - even though you have what you want and need from a wife - you're about to nuke it over what? I don't think you know why yourself.

Is it because she hurt you? Is it because your ego is bruised? Or is it all because she won't change her last name?

I don't know what the answer is - all I know is that you lack frame. If you had any, you wouldn't be here asking us if you should launch the weapons. You'd have already have made your decision and followed through.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

The Captain/FO dynamic is best left implicit, not negotiated.

This is all about your faggot insecurities and fragile ego. That's what you should be trying to kill.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As always, more work to do on myself.

[–]Rogue684861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This

If you have to beg someone to follow you, you're not leading

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is only one answer to all asked, and the answer comes from you.

It’s time to drop, she cheated. It’s gone.

She keeps the improvements up, or do something different

You cannot e or t her to walk on eggshells, and you can’t expect her to fall in line when you go beta.

It’s all on you and what you want.

[–]useful_stranger1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dude - you have a lot going for you. She indeed does all you want her to. All this verbalization you seem to expect is a fool’s errand. Of course she’ll be your equal. Let her think that. Let her tell that to herself. She’ll be your equal in the same sense that you’ll be in your masculine and she’ll be in her feminine. And thus it’s inevitable that you’ll lead most of the time. This isn’t Saudi Arabia. You want her to walk two steps behind you and require your approval every time she drives somewhere?!! Show some self confidence and security.

You’re still so angry with your old self.

As long as she indeed does what matters to you, let her talk about all sorts of bullshit.

And what’s that with meet jointly with a lawyer!?? You each get your own bro, if indeed there is a divorce.

My suggestion is to not divorce her now- you have a lot going for you, the dread is working, she’s adding value, you’re living the life you want. Stop talking about it so much and don’t take yourself and this red pill so seriously. Divorce sucks so unless she is clearly not adding value de facto and she does not fit the role in your frame, then keep her around and the family whole.

Next level shit: start picking up other women with her. Tell her you fantasize about girl on girl action and that the two of you should have threesomes with other women. I assume you want that. Make that shit happen. Make her the queen of your harem.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your use of absolute power absolutely would work -- if this guy were actually powerful and honest with himself. Sadly, no threesomes for him.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Proceeding with divorce.....

Takes less than a week for papers and service.

Once she is served come and tell us how she is going to agree to using your lawyer.

Wait till she figures out the less custody you have the more money she gets.

Have fun.

Faggot.

[–]NotResultsOriented[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

We make very similar incomes. But I am most certainly a faggot.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ignorant as well.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're negotiating like an amateur. Might as well split the difference while you're at it. No deal is worth it "just to have some sort of deal" if it means taking a bad deal. Right?

Step back and ask, "what's my walk away point?" Are you really going to walk away because she won't take your name? Her actions say she's all in. I think you're not giving her what she wants and that's why she's so afraid to concede.

Every negotiation has a secret agenda. That thing people won't tell you what it is that's holding them back. What is your wife's? Instead of getting her to agree to all the things that are right, get her to tell you all the things she can't agree too. Then find an alternative. Sometimes women say they want to be equal, but what they mean is they want to be acknowledged. No woman is a feminist if you run your game right and maintain frame.

Instead of treating this like you're a used car salesman change the pitch. Change it so that she overpay a and thanks you for it. Embrace the deal and let her know she's not going to get fucked in a bad way.

There's no such thing as crazy customers. She's not buying what your selling.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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