Don't Kill her fantasy, a guide to building mystery

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July 21, 2019

A guide to Building Mystery

This community is a gem of knowledge that I have been drawing off of for over three years now I felt it was finally time to give back and start posting some of what I learned along the way.


Most people are like an open book, constantly babbling about: hobbies, their job, who they hangout with, what they do on the weekends, information they gleaned from a YouTube video, thirty second long snapchat stories. They are always brimming with advice that no one asked for. 

After asking a few leading questions this individual will divulge enough of his life story that you can paint a picture of him as a boring, basic, common man. Once this individual is figured out and categorized by your brain there is nothing left to learn about him and your brain is bored by him. Your brain now imagines him spending his time on the weekend playing xbox and jerking off.  

Your brain likes to fill in the gaps where it has no information, it has fun doing this. Given little information (and thoughtfully dropped breadcrumbs) our brains will generally paint a much grander and greater picture of what actually happened. When we have the full story our brain suddenly gets bored and gives up trying to figure it out. 

When you first meet a girl your “mystery scale” is at an all time high. You know you’re a basic fucking dude but she doesn’t. You look her in the eye and say “hey”, she likes what she sees and immediately she begins imagining you doing cool things: Going to foreign locations ,making money ,living dangerously on edge, fucking other woman etc. 

Then you proceed to slaughter her fantasy by telling her every little fucking detail of your life 

“I work at X”

“I hangout with X”

“I Do X on the weekends”

“I Traveled to X last year to do X”

With every bit of information you divulge your mystery scale takes a blow. Her smile begins to waver as her brain is now painting a picture of you as the average guy you really are. 

With a flick of a switch she suddenly has you all figured out. Her brains image of you is now grounded in reality. An hour ago you were inscrutable but now she realizes she met someone just like you last week. She just moves on to the next guy she imagines has it cooking (he probably doesn’t, no guy can live up to a female created fantasy) 

A fantasy can be killed in one conversation if you really know the Right Wrong things to say. 

Never let someone “figure you out”

Thought experiment: Think about how a Janitor spends his weekend vs. how James Bond spends his weekend 

Imagine the things each of them are doing 

You probably imagine the janitor doing nothing fun, probably paying bills in his small home. 

You probably imagine bond racing some cool as fuck car, shooting guns in a suit, and taking the girl home. 

Imagine the power you would have if you could instill in her a mental image the likes of James Bond. She would always believe you were up to something totally cool and the fuel for this image is simply the tidbits of information you throw her. 

So now that we understand the concept of mystery and attraction how can you leverage it to you’re advantage

1.Shut the fuck up and listen

Most blue pill guys are going to meet a woman and begin qualifying themselves to her. Just imagine for a minute that you flip the table and get her to begin qualifying herself to you. 

You remain at peak mystery and now she is giving you valuable information that you can leverage later on in the evening. 

How do you do this? Begin asking her leading questions. 

“What do you do” 

“What do you like” 

“How do you spend your time” 

let her ramble on about herself while you kick back and observe the situation at hand

Bonus points if you don’t even ask her questions and she just begins telling you want you want to know for free. More bonus points if she begins qualifying herself! 

She will begin divulging her mystery while you keep yours intact.

2.Indirect and vague 

In General the questions you ask will be flipped back on you (This is how conversations work) so expect to answer your own question; if she is not self obsessed and can’t stop talking about herself that is. 

The key to answering a question and not killing the mystery it is to remain indirect and vague with you’re answers. 


Her: “what are we going to do tonight” 

RP You: “Show up at eight and find out” 

BP You: “ we are going to be going to X, and then maybe to X, and then back to my apartment” 


Her: “how often do you go here” 

RP You: “occasionally” 

BP You: “I come here every Friday and Saturday, Im friends with all the staff and they know me very well” 


Her: “How do you know all these people” 

RP You: “I get around” 

BP You: “I did school announcements in high school and people we’re used to hearing my name over the intercom every day” 

tell her much less then necessary, leave her with unanswered questions so she can fill in the answers

3.Bread crumbs 

Discretely drop details about your life that create more questions then answers. 

Her: “you want to hangout tonight” 

RP You: “can’t I’m in the city” 

Her brain: Why is he in the city? What could he possibly be doing without me?? I wonder who he is with, he is probably with other hot girls. 


Ever see a guy with a Rolex or a status symbol he has like a Porsche or Ferrari? 

We like these items because it starts our brain on a rationalization obstacle coarse to try to figure out: what he does, who he is, and what is he doing here. 

Status symbols open up a box of unanswered questions that’s why girls flock to the guy with the Porsche (to figure him out) not the guy with Subaru.  

Drop tidbits of information that produce many questions and then withhold the answers, this is peak mystery! 

4. Effortless 

Don’t talk about how many hours you studied for the grade. 

how many hours you “grind” in the gym to look this way. 

Don’t talk about how much effort went into your PowerPoint presentation. 

No one fucking cares how much effort you put in, they only care about the results. 

You know that you worked hard, but to other people make it appear as if it was effortless. When it appears that everything is effortless to you, people will begin attributing you positive quality’s and an air of mystery and heightened skill. 

Everyone will think “Why is he so good at that if he never practices, he must be a natural ” 


Her: “wow, how often do you go to the gym??:)” 

RP You: “occasionally” 

BP You: “every day I do 15 minutes of HIIT cardio, followed up by two hours of grueling 5x5 strong lifts. And I haven’t even gotten to my diet yet” 


Reminder, the girl doesn’t fucking care 

5.Don’t Give unsolicited advice

If someone doesn’t ask you for help or an opinion, don’t give it. 

Generally people don’t give a fuck what you think and they will only resent you for knowing more on the subject then themselves. 

You’re plate start talking to you about climate change and how bad it is for the earth but can’t properly explain the greenhouse effect? 

Laugh to yourself, but let her think she knows all the answers. It would do you no good teaching her about the fucking green house effect on a ride to the bar. 

Peace brothers, Truth sayer out

TLDR; don’t kill her fantasy

Post Information
Title Don't Kill her fantasy, a guide to building mystery
Author SlySoothSayer
Upvotes 1118
Comments 115
Date 21 July 2019 09:27 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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[–][deleted] 271 points272 points  (40 children) | Copy

I wish there was a rating system or categories on TRP, like, for beginners, intermediate, proficient, advanced etc. because while this is great advice, misapplied by a beginner, it would lead to a lot of confusion, heartbreak and misplaced anger.

[–]SlySoothSayer[S] 160 points161 points  (11 children) | Copy

To run this type of game you need to be a higher value male to begin with, this is definitely proficient game.

She won’t fantasize about you if you aren’t able to build that initial attraction.

[–]ChrimsonChin98820 points21 points  (10 children) | Copy

You're so far off it's laughable honestly. A high value male wouldn't even concern himself with small manipulations like these. There's no need to convey mystery of you're 'awesome' life when you're actually living one.

Obviously you should never qualify yourself or give more than you're getting. Anyone who values himself and his time at least a little bit understands this. No shit you don't talk about how much effort you put in (be it in business, school or the gym) to a girl, she wouldn't understand anyway. Also, why would you give precious advice to a random girl? Why would she be worth your time?

Dropping bread crumbs and being indirect/vague is kindergarten PUA garbage. A man is straight to the point no bullshit. Nothing more than manipulation tactics pretending that you're interesting. If you feel the need to manipulate women by being vague/indirect, trying to convey you're more interesting or higher value than you actually are is extremely low value because you inherently don't believe the 'real' you is good enough.

This has nothing to do with proficient game, because like I said, it's kindergarten PUA tactics aka manipulation.

[–]umizumiz48 points49 points  (5 children) | Copy

You just validated his entire post by literally picking it apart and agreeing with every single point.

And then trying to say he's wrong.

[–]ChrimsonChin9888 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Nope, I do agree that on the surface this is high value behavior and it can get you some girls. I do also agree you shouldn't kill the fantasy. But what OP is doing here is trying to consciously convey this behavior and thus high value to the girl. Which is not high value at all. He's trying to imitate a process which occurs organically as you become a man of higher value.

My point is, you are wasting your time if you try to imitate the process. Which has no other goal than creating a fake image of yourself a.k.a. manipulation. Instead, you should focus on becoming actually high value, rather than pretending to be one.

To give a simple example: Not immediately replying to a girl her messages but waiting a few hours to respond demonstrates high value at the surface level. However, if you are not actually busy doing more important/interesting things but consciously waiting with your reply, you're of even lower value than the guy who immediately responds. You can't fake being outcome independent. You can't fake not chasing validation. You either are or you aren't.

But it's becoming more and more apparent to me this is a very hard concept to grasp when you're still running around manipulating and trying to trick girls into sleeping with you by pretending you're high value.

[–]Seven-acorn5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes you got to fake it til you make it.

The text rules are valuable for a guy who isn't slaying the pussy he wants. Once you're there, obviously you stop caring.

I don't think the guy's "leave a little mystery" is off-base at all.

I don't agree with your "a man is straight talk no BS" point. You're talking about an idyllic world that doesn't exist.

A man - in business, with women, in life, in war - must be able to play poker and use theatrics to his advantage. You may find that effimeniate in some way, but it's effective.

You can be 'no bullshit' with your close friends.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Listen to this guy. Like he says, the original post has truth within but the advice is framed by needing to "act" and make up bullshit. Your priority is to sort your life out if you have to resort to an "act", it is ultimately see-through, hollow.

A lot of this stuff is hella simple than others would have you believe, but a lot of it comes from being honest with yourself and making the right choices with your life.

[–]oberlre02 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

dude, you're wasting time here. Most of these prolific TRP content producers are losers, who don't value their own times, stuck in a dead end job or even jobless, no money no future, and HAVE TO resort to manipulation techniques to hopefully pull some young inexperienced chicks.

[–]aWorldBornDead0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. I really like the uncle vasily or (whatever his name is) fanfiction. People are so busy being awesome and slaying puss they have time to come here and write big blocks of text like it's their personal journal. Guys getting their cocks stroked dont need their egos stroked.

[–]greenlittleman5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are right, but also wrong. If you feel yourself high value and being a chooser instead of chaser then you wouldn't feel need to manipulate women in any way - either she meet your expectations or you will find someone better. But it isn't directly related to your actual success in life and "awesomeness" of your life, you can have awesome life and still suck with women and fell that you are unworthy, or you can be nothing special, but having close to narcissistic self-confidence and so get laid easily. And when you are like this then you also wouldn't explain to her how awesome you are, bragging of any form is always comes from feeling of low value. This post is helpful to those who try to imitate high value behaviour before they actually feel high value inside. It will work, just less effective and emotional burden would be much higher. When you are truly feel high value then you never even feel "rejected", you just feel that woman was unable to meet your expectations and failed in getting you.

[–]ChrimsonChin9887 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post is helpful to those who try to imitate high value behaviour before they actually feel high value inside.

Yep, this post is nothing more than 'fake it till you make it'. 100% agree. I'm just pointing out that's not a long-term solution or goal you should have and you shouldn't use it as anything more than a short-term crutch to get some girls.

Your long-term goal should be to become a high value man, you will get 10x the girls with 10x less effort.

[–]yomo861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it has more to do with abundance. You will not play the 36 question game with her and be her interrogation puppet when you pump and dump left and right. It is just tiresome. Chicks in their peak SMV phase do as OP prescribes it for men. Just throw random information and play to see what the other party is doing. For shits and giggles. Because why? Because you get laid anyway. And you go radio silent when you have had enough.

[–]Son0fMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

boom - I couldn't agree more and glad you stole the words right out of my mouth. maybe I'm starting to outgrow TRP but a lot of these posts just seem like dudes trying to protect their brittle egos.

no, you can't be 'on' 100% of the time and if the wom(e)n in your life can't accept that then they or you will move the fuck on.

[–]MatSapientia49 points50 points  (0 children) | Copy

Flairs should solve this.


[–]disciplinedFreedom34 points35 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed, this is difficult for a new guy to pull off. But for a guy more advanced, this is solid advice. For new guys, beginners, and some intermediates, just focus on talking to a large quantity of women rather than using this method to pull high valued targets

[–]Psyyko1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would bet an insane amount of money that nobody that's truly "advanced" and successful when dealing with women would waste their time here discussing what's the best way to deal with women. I challenge anyone who regularly posts here to prove me that they have the success they say they do with hot women. With so many things so much interesting to do in life, i would highly doubt anyone who gets the job done would spend much time here.

Plus, the advice is kind of garbage. It might work if you're incredibly attractive and if she is already into you just based on your way above average looks or amazing social status. If you're an average-looking joe that at first glance doesn't bring anything truly desirable to the table, failing to provide her with the information she wants won't make the majority of women have develop interest in you. She will most likely think you have nothing interesting to brag about or are ashamed of what you are and what you do, since the reality is that most successful people have no problem talking about the cool things they do.

[–]HectoSexual28 points29 points  (16 children) | Copy

Literally I had this exact thought while reading this.

A lot of advice on this sub is literal autism when used by men who are 5s and 6s, but work perfectly for guys who are 8s.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (14 children) | Copy

Well, you do understand the difference between an experienced TRP man and an "8" as nomenclature, don't you?

[–]HectoSexual19 points20 points  (12 children) | Copy

Yes, and I’m saying that this advice is applicable to 8s, but not necessarily to “experienced TRP” men. Being experienced in TRP principles helps you maximize your potential attractiveness, but that doesn’t mean it makes you attractive. Some guys max out at 9, some max out at 6. Genetics is unfortunately a huge factor, both looks wise and personality wise.

Acting like the “strong, silent type” (like this post suggests) doesn’t work for people who are maxing out at a 6.

[–]throwawaybpdnpd11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

Any man, maxed out at 6 or 9, who adds more about himself to the conversation will lose attraction from her

It has nothing to do with ”being silent” or SMV... the less you say about yourself and ask about her, the more her hamster will be spinning

The more it spins, the more exciting you become

Being ugly only means you have to put more effort, using those same principles

In the end if you know you have to put more effort than some genetically gifted guys, it will show up in your self esteem

[–]HectoSexual3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are absolutely right - the less you say about yourself and the more you ask about her, the more her hamster will be spinning.

But a low SMV man will apply this advice and immediately enter something called “interview mode” where the girl is just mindlessly answering questions, not asking any back and not caring about what you say.

Asking a girl questions and being interested in her, as a low SMV, will just bore her.

[–]throwawaybpdnpd5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

If she does, don’t waste your time and go to the next

Even 9s will have to go to the next when it happen

[–]Psyyko1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

ng to do with ”being silent” or SMV... the less

Can't agree with that. I have yet to found any correlation between the amount of what i say and the success i have with women. In fact, the absolutely hottest girls i've dated until now, which were considerably above me, required no "mystery game" from me. But i've had girls not wanting to talk to me anymore because they felt i was hiding shit. Everytime i see people here talking about rules set in stone i know for a fact that they don't know nearly as much as they claim they do.

[–]throwawaybpdnpd2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s not about game nor being mysterious...

When your SMV is high, you don’t feel any need for validation anymore so you never speak about yourself unless asked a question (raised interest); you become mysterious wether you want it or not

My first comment also has to be taken with a grain of salt, if the chick isn’t receptive at all then continuously asking her questions will only make it worse

[–]greenlittleman4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, it works. If you weren't rejected within the first few minutes then you already passed her looks threshold. So this advice is applicable to anyone. And bragging about yourself is always fail.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

Interesting. I tried. More for me.

[–]AshyLarry279 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'll take a stab. Referring to someone as an "8" is very broad. It could mean they physically have the appearance of an 8, however they could have nothing else going for them. There are physical appearance "caps," but ultimately what good is a pussy of an 8 if the 5 or 6 can slay.

An "experienced" TRP man understands the general concepts and is more effective with interactions. He can read social situations better, more effective with banter and deeper conversations, holds frame well, and ultimately understands the importance of escalation. In playing more toward their strengths if we are assuming a sub "physical" 8 (ie that strength being 'actual' social interactions with women), he is more likely to take this information on "mystery" and essentially add it to his tool box. He'll understand he needs to talk less and escalate more. Where as some doofus BP "8" could be fed this information and bomb simply from having no social skills or frame

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It was a rhetorical question, but I appreciate your effort

[–]Psyyko1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

saying that this advice is

I don't. Show me an experience TRP man and significant proof of his success. Also, show me proof too that despite his success with women, he still spends his time here. Because

[–]oldschooltx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Shit 1, 4 and 5 is master shit for any level. excellent post

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's no way to classify guys or techniques on a single, monolithic scale.

We say that TRP is a toolbox, and the metaphor holds in numerous ways.

Think of a real toolbox. You don't have to learn how to use a hammer before learning how to use a screwdriver. You can learn either depending on when and where you need to use them. And learning either might impart other lessons in the process, such as the importance of taking measurements and of keeping fastened objects level.

TRP is a giant box of shit because it has to be. Part of the challenge is understanding your issue, finding the correct tool for the job, and then learning that tool.

[–]qwertyuiop1112224 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

it would lead to a lot of confusion, heartbreak and misplaced anger.


I think it comes from a good place, and is of value. That said, you're better off actually having a bloody impressive life. Because once you're in a LTR, how long are you going to keep all of your life a secret? So either she can find out that you don't have an interesting life, or become Bond, and you ensure you have an interesting life.

[–]tyronethejabrone15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

The key is to have an appealing reality. Different from a bloody impressive life.

You can keep a girl around by being a good time, and being a guy that gives off the vibe that he “has it figured out”.

Self-assuredness and amused mastery.

Once you have these two down, you can exhibit this mysteriousness pretty easily.

[–]AshyLarry274 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

it would lead to a lot of confusion, heartbreak and misplaced anger.


Because this advice given to someone with little to no understanding of game will go right over their head. Without the context of information from the side bar, or just a genuine understanding of game, they will predictably interpret it in a manner of "Ohh, I just have to pretend I am too cool for school, like James Bond."

Then you'll see these same guys at the bar or venue placed up against the wall, like they are holding it up from falling over. They will end up talking to no one. If they talk to a girl, the conversation will be brief and fleeting. Most importantly, they will most likely avoid any physical escalation at all if the conversation even does begin to go well.

Most guys will be so invested in the idea this advice will "work," that they forget they still have to play a large role in getting the ball rolling. The "confusion, heartbreak, and misplaced anger" is most likely going to come from the fact that he maybe expecting her to make all the moves since he's this "too cool for school guy" who shouldn't lift a finger because he's "so mysterious and cool." Women will make some of the moves with a guy like this, but he must ultimately finish it by bringing it back to the bedroom.

[–]celincelin4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Let’s start with “for autists, by autists,” that’ll solve this issue almost in full.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree. This is logical, a woman does NOT see things the way we do. Patrice O'Neal was fat, had diabetes and generally did not give a shit about it. Yet he pulled all sorts of women all the time.

You are as high value as you believe yourself down to your fucking bones.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You think? Most beginners need to STFU. This explains why quite well.

[–]-endless-115 points116 points  (3 children) | Copy

Art of Seduction takes this even further... Strategy 12: Poeticise your Presence

Familiarity destroys seduction. It is not a question of being seen too often, of being too available. It is more a matter of being too consistent, too obvious, too human and real. Your targets cannot idealise you if they know too much.

Not only must you maintain a degree of distance, but there must be something fantastical and bewitching about you, sparking all kinds of delightful possibilities in their mind. There are a number of ideals you can embody: chivalry, adventure, romance.

At all costs, you must embody something, even if it is roguery & evil. Anything to avoid the taint of familiarity and commonness.

We all idealise ourselves. When we fall in love, we see a reflection of ourselves in them. If they are ordinary, then we are ordinary. Thus, for the sake of our own self-esteem, at all costs the loved one must be overvalued and idealised. People are dying to be given the chance to fantasise about you.

Soon after we fall under a person’s spell, we form an image in our minds of who they are and what pleasures they might offer. Thinking of them when we are alone, we tend to make this image more and more idealised. Idealisation is most potent when a bit of doubt has creeped in — they desire you, but you elude them, they are not sure if you are theirs.

[–]22oregon2214 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Familiarity truly does breed contempt. Well put.

[–]LethalShade2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Is the book worth buying? It's been on my list for a while.

[–]Tmanpoker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. It was one of the first books I read after swallowing the pill and has changed my game by leaps and bounds.

[–]Trump45and2zigzags61 points62 points  (1 child) | Copy

You probably imagine bond racing some cool as fuck car, shooting guns in a suit, and taking the girl home.

so one of my ex's mother, a long time ago when i was still dating my ex, had this fling with a dude. her mom was saying that this guy is some kind of secret military guy working for u.s. govt and blah blah and doesn't talk about it. to me, the huge red flag immediately popped and i said he's full of shit. so one day i meet this dude in a posh resort here in the city where had a penthouse rented and was staying in (for fucking what? he supposedly lives here). anyway, it was chill, the guy had a bunch of food ordered and booze and whatnot. so i meet the guy and i immediately know he's full of shit, just by looking at him. he starts talking about some missions on subs he's been to a sea in russia and shit just wasn't making any sense geographically at all, if you know basic fucking geography. so the next day i tell my ex's mom, like yo, this dude is a scumbag, i dunno what his long game is but he's full of shit. so my ex's mom decides not to believe me and keeps dating this idiot.. fucking 2 weeks later, some woman strolls into my ex's family restaurant where her mom works and tells her mom that she's an ex wife of this con man idiot and that he's an alcoholic and is just blowing his family trust money trying to get women to believe his stupid stories. lmao.

another quick example, recently some broad in london got conned out of like 200k because she met some dude on tinder pretending to be some world renown diamond dealer and it was a pretty elaborate con, but she fell in love with the guy immediately because he filled her head with mystery and thrill.. ended up taking her for all her money..

point of the story is, women will fall for the dumbest shit because they want to be living in something other than their boring ass mundane life.

[–]SlySoothSayer[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unbelievable story, fantasy got the best of them

[–]UnnatainableArab33 points34 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fantastic post. Lots of gems in here.

A key element of building good relationships with other men is not giving unsolicited advice. A lot of messages in here we can all grow from.

[–]Gnosiis_26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you just shut up she'll do all the talking for you. Only talk to "segway" the conversation into different topics or have her elaborate on the same one. If she even bothers shifting the conversation towards you then you can be vague about your response and quickly redirect. Just keep her talking and you really won't have to think about being mysterious. But OP is spot on when you DO need to speak.

[–]Flintblood6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wish I had read this last night. The woman was a fox and I found myself too eager to answer her questions about career and travel too explicitly and directly. I'm pretty sure I blew it (we laughed and it wasn't cringe) but her responses today were short. I have 3 other dates lined up this week, so I will practice this and focus on escalating.

[–]omega_dawg9321 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

if you learn to just STFU, most girls will talk themselves out of their panties.

[–]Greaterbird38 points39 points  (2 children) | Copy

You probably imagine bond racing some cool as fuck car, shooting guns in a suit, and taking the girl home.

Bond already does that in his day job. On weekends he probably plays flamenco guitar and sips brandy in a cigar jacket.

If you're going to be a janitor, the one from Scrubs has mystery all over.

[–]wingsofwongs8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bond always struck me as a gin guy on his days off.

[–]Turcey18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

From personal experience I agree 100%. My problem has always been living up to the fantasy. I've dated way more women than anyone should in their lifetime and it's always the same. Most of the time I'm not really interested in the girl, but when I am I take them out, give them great conversation, they have the most fun they've ever had, but eventually they realize that the fantasy is not real. That I don't check every box. I've always likened it to Dorothy seeing the wizard behind the curtain. They don't want to know that I'm an atheist. They don't want to know that I have nuanced opinions about shit. They're almost never looking to be intellectually stimulated, they're just checking to see what boxes you tick.

I've always had the attitude like I know I'm better than 99.9% of guys so that's how I'll win out in the end. But that's all bullshit because we're not dealing in reality, we're dealing with people's perceptions. Ultimately it's just better to shut the fuck up.

[–]SomeGuy12519 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

They don't want to know that I'm an atheist. They don't want to know that I have nuanced opinions about shit. They're almost never looking to be intellectually stimulated, they're just checking to see what boxes you tick.

This is why i always laugh when anyone man or women say intelligence is a attractive attribute for a man lol. No they want the possible benefits of that....mostly money.

[–]Nis_law17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just STFU. Effortlessness, indirectness, vagueness comes naturally but its ironic that STFUing is the hardest part to 'master' which should be the easiest. Restraint only will put you in the top 20% if not more than that.

[–]disciplinedFreedom32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy

This advice as a whole is fucking gold. I’ll add some summarizing details on to it. What the OP is doing is creating a narrative in the girls mind. Narrative is vital to being successful. What story is she going to tell her friends about you? By doing what he says, you’re essentially letting HER create the narrative. You are giving general points, but she is writing the story. Unless you a great looking, just meeting some rando at a bar will not cut it for very high valued women. Nice job OP

[–]jedicreed19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

Totally agree with this. Because mystery creates interest. It is one of the key elements of the alpha male. The more clues a girl has about you but fewer answers, the better!

Since you mentioned Bond, here’s another important element: Quite often, you can notice James Bond’s smirk. It’s playful, mysterious and shows self-confidence.

So, instead of a laugh, try to replace it with a smirk. I’m not saying RP’s don’t laugh, but when you want to be playful with a girl, smirk establishes the dominance.

RP’s knows how to challenge a woman in a not-rude, mysterious way. If you want your compliments to be valuable to women, make sure you occasionally challenge them.

When a girl challenges you, though, ignore it with a smirk. Remain calm, unreactive and move on.

[–]ZeppKfw6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very true. When I first got into TRP reading the sidebar aswell as conversing with some RP men I tried to apply all of it. Got a date with a girl with a couple rp rules applied. She was excited and even left her home even when her mom told her to not to, she put effort just to see me. Which was good.

At the date it was a cringe fest. My blue pill was showing up. My frame was breaking as well as the picture she painted of me. She tried to mock me later on. It's funny now that I thought of it.

[–]Halflotus15 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Key point to not go overboard INITIALLY with this. You have to judge interest. Throw out interesting tidbits until she’s hooked. Then chill. Then it’s a matter of push\pull on her strings until she’s wrapped around your finger. Rinse and repeat as needed.

[–]holiestofshits15 points16 points  (11 children) | Copy

What shall we talk about? FUCK KNOWS, HOW ABOUT NOTHING?

[–]bluescreen4209 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah, its pretty difficult to hold a conversation if you only give vague answers.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

The point is to not reveal all your cards at once so she builds up the best possible narrative in her head. Get the hamster spinning in your favor.

[–]oiltank7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

What hes saying is that the hamster wont be spinning at all if all you do is give boring ass vague answers. She must be already interested in you in the first place.

[–]Missionfortruth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can answer and make judgments on things without revealing stuff about your personal life

[–]Project_Zero_Betas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can show off your personality in other areas besides exact details of your life/schedule. Again, get the hamster spinning to your benefit.

[–]KagoKija0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

shes talking. youre listening. youre asking more questions and dropping little bits about yourself. its a great post.

that said i have plenty of lived experience.

[–]holiestofshits0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Don’t take my comment to literal brother I’m good, it was more of a joking dig at OP’s vagueness in his post.

People new to RP reading who won’t be privy to such knowledge of game, holding your frame etc, so this isn’t really a “beginners post” and should have been written with a bit more context for new readers.

[–]KagoKija0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

i found video games made chatting with girls tough thats all.

tbh i dont think a writer should need to make that distinction. im happy theyre writing and we're all on different levels. really it is the readers responsibility to gage the material provided.

for example I am very effective in some aspects yet totally lacking in others, some things i read i tell myself "yeah no way" others like this i agree all the way.

[–]holiestofshits0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What’s video games got anything to do with this post or comments?

Some people are complete introverts and have zero confidence to start a conversation with anyone.

I’m the total opposite and I can spark up conversation and take it where I want it with anyone no matter the situation, gift of the gab so to say. That’s a natural gift though that I have, not everyone reading this will have that and this post would be easily misconstrued by the introverts who aren’t confident at holding a conversation to start with.

There needs to be a distinction in this post for people who are newbies and it’s been pointed out a few times in this post that it is too vague for such people. Although this post, is really just common sense for anyone who has an understanding to start with.

[–]KagoKija0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

sorry brother thinking back it was pretty bleeding obvious, cant read sarcasm so i brushed your profile... lead me to believe you were a little serious. wanted to give some encouragement. i find the more time i spend on a computer the more boring i become.

[–]FaP_caesar5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

According to this, i am the final form of Redpill.

[–]420KUSHBUSH10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is no final form, only forward form

[–]Theorymeltfool15 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is so fucking tough in practice .

[–]light-yagamii3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree with a lot of the new posts and comments these days but this is solid advice here. This summer I met a rich Japanese business women in nyc. First couple times we met it was just drinks and conversation. Third time we moved it to her fancy midtown Manhattan condo and just made out and cuddled. After that she texted me she really liked me and wanted to see me the following Saturday morning. That's where I blew it and started texting her throughout the day. I developed bitchy oneitis feelings after she stopped texting me lol. The following Saturday never came. The new guy she's seeing has a rooftop bar like hers.

[–]inmy325xi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post is theee shit and really spoke to me. I’m someone who’s probably a high valued male but not ostentatious about how I go about things but I never thought to build mystery around it as well. Although I may not gloat and I’m pretty passive about what I’ve accomplished, I think from here on out I’ll incorporate these tips.

Also appreciate the examples provided too. “Show up at 8 and find out...” fucking GOLD!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I met a girl on tinder, who was actually really fun to talk to, which is the number 1 important thing to me at least. She was an 8 and had a good job, she could carry a conversation, and appeared to have interests outside of binge drinking and Instagram likes. She had a nice body, probably 15_20% bf, basically as good a body as i'm willing to put up with.

As i was just talking to her, sending some snaps, getting to know her, i just mentioned i was going to the gym a few times, i might have sent her some snaps. I also made some witty jokes, because thats just what you have to do, ok?

Anyway before i take her to get a coffee, she confides that she is really scared, shes worried that i wont like her because im a super shredded freak ( im not i just lift weights and eat kinda sloppy), she was worried i was smarter than her (aas at community college), and she thought i was a master player that has 20 women on my dick all the time.

Nothing i said, nothing, would lead her to those conclusions. She thought i was attractive, then every word i said after that, she took to the extreme. This girl did more work building me up in her head, than i ever could have done.

[–]hiem3w2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Won’t giving vague one worded answers just kill the conversation?

”What are you doing this weekend?” “In the city”

.... okay.... sounds REALLY interesting

Wouldn’t it be better to say something like

“What are you doing this weekend?” “Meeting up with some friends downtown to check out a local concert, nothing crazy. What about you? Any plans?”

Sure it’s not great game, but at least it shows that you’re not at home alone jerking off or uninterested in the conversation. Unless a dead conversation is supposed to work in your favour somehow?

[–]tyronethejabrone 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy

Why are you so interested in having a conversation when you’re out doing fun shit in the city?

She doesn’t want that level of interest.

You’re just killing the fantasy of being an alfalfa.

[–]hiem3w0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Can you still invite her along when she only has a vague idea of what you’re going to do?

[–]tyronethejabrone 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

If you don’t have a plan tell her theres no plan. Just gonna see where life takes you. If there is a plan, just give a vague answer. May need to tell her what to wear though.

Hopefully you are a good time. That’s all that matters.

Girls like mystery. They like serendipity. Spontaneity.

Make it at least one of them.

[–]hiem3w1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Will keep this all in mind. Thanks for the explanation

[–]legaxo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So I have a question about this I'd like some help with. You can only give so many short answers, how do you keep the conversation flowing while remaining a mystery?

[–]Robster252 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's nice of you to sum up some of the 48 laws of power.

[–]le_king_falcon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The artful non answer is an underused option outside of politics and PR people.

Done properly it cultivates mystery and allows for the hamster to run away with its own ideas. Female fantasy is often so over the top that actually competing with it is impossible, but why compete when a smart non answer lets her make the mental leap herself?

Being asked a question you don't care for? Non answer. By someone you don't care for? Non answer. The answer too mundane? Non answer.

The list goes on but almost any situation where it doesn't explicitly benefit you is a time to consider the application of the non answer.

Its not the most beginner friendly option as it requires social calibration to get tone and frequency right. Used properly though it has many many uses.

[–]MagnetoWned1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

AWESOME post, and it’s something I could personally use. I have a question though, I tend to go on tangents about certain stuff I have a passion for and it’s hard for me to stop that. I don’t go on them and have the listener(s) be bored, they tend to laugh and share the same experience as me (they just don’t wanna say what I’m ranting about because it’s not PC, etc) is this technically killing my mystery?

[–]inittowinit7771 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post. Succinct, concise and actionable. Hell, even remembering the titles of your 5 points should be good enough for most people. Thanks for your contribution.

[–]odinmeister1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've been thinking a lot about the value of honesty lately. Honesty with yourself but also with women.

This is generally a good post with some handy advice, but I think you can't just blindly apply it on every girl you meet. We have to ask ourselves what kind of relationship we are looking for with a particular girl.

A One Night Stand? - no problem, but the longer you associate with a girl the more she wants to (and is going to) find out about you.

Only in truth, less than 1% of us lives up to this James Bond kind of persona. And I feel that it's very stressful and mentally demanding to keep this wrong image up. "´What if she finds out that I'm an average boring guy after all?"

The thing is our brain strives for congruency, that's why I think it's unhealthy to make people think that you are something better than you are in reality and believe yourself to be, which is the same as lying to me...

I should note that I gave "Models: Attract women through honesty" a read recently.

Please correct me if you think I'm wrong, I am open for discussion.

[–]PhyllisWheatenhousen1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

This sounds like advice for hookups and casual relationships. How would this apply to a long term relationship where they will eventually know almost everything about you?

[–]Endorsed ContributorReddJive3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Never be stagnate. Always have things going on.

Example: I'm a martial artist. Within one of my styles at 4rth degree the practitioner has to earn a Meikyo certificate to proceed on or to open a dojo.

Do you need to tell her you did it?

I also picked up another art (BJJ) Didn't tell her. Just did it.

Never be stagnate. Keep moving and doing

[–]randomTATRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


what the fuck is a LTR in your opinion then? if it's only sex, it's a plate. if it's sex with doing fun stuff more often, it's fwb. what's the difference between fwb and ltr except for the exclusivity?

[–]munchontheinternet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Found this very helpful. Damn!

[–]TibetanWisdom3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

until it comes time to actual have, idk , real conversation with women. These examples you give are simple ambigious retorts that ,yes, create slight mystery. But what happens when you escalate and it comes time to actually have convo.

" When you first meet a girl your “mystery scale” is at an all time high. You know you’re a basic fucking dude but she doesn’t. You look her in the eye and say “hey”, she likes what she sees and immediately she begins imagining you doing cool things: Going to foreign locations ,making money ,living dangerously on edge, fucking other woman etc.  "

No normal, mature women thinks this. Maybe some immature 18 year olds and bipolar chicks. most women automatically assume your a low-average smv guy. Unless you have immaculate bone structure, then she may fantasize because muh tingles. Otherwise she probably guesses your an accountant and chill at home on the weekends.

Your message is good, mystery is a powerful tool. But you should give a more in depth analysis on what to say in convo, and how to raise mystery if your an avg looking guy. cheers.

[–]RedNightOwl9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're missing the point. Like everything on TRP, this is a tool to set you above the common. OP's not saying "dont have an actual conversation", but learn to speak less and listen more and don't be a open book with girls or anyone that's not close family or friends. I answer questions like OP because she has to earn my time and stories that took me years to built and accomplish, while allowing me to learn how high quality the woman is and if she fits my long term goals. Being an open book places you in the friend zone quickly like most guys fall under. Mystery allows me to be fun versus technical, protect myself from oneitis and pushes my SMV higher with her and her network (girl friends), and not smother her like 99% of guys do. In her mind, it separates the boys from the men. Girls walk on egg shells around me now because they don't want to lose me or the fun I bring every time I come around

[–]Stopcryingsissy4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

As much as I like the OP work and ideas it reminds me too much of Carrell using his "reverse question game" at the book store on Elizabeth Banks that Seth Rogen teaches him in the movie "40 year old virgin" lol

[–]TibetanWisdom1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lmao exactly , thats how most guys will come off as. and life isnt a movie

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In order to actually have a conversation you have to go out and meet actual women. You can't learn this online

[–]NeuralTech0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How long did it take you to put this post together?

[–]GastrointestinalRein0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Really nice and helpful post

[–]McVaghunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

BP You: “ we are going to be going to X, and then maybe to X, and then back to my apartment”

Although it's an excellent strategy to keep her guessing, it's sad to see that the posters here still believe that the concept of the "first date" belongs to TRP. But then again, very few posters here lift for aesthetics and almost everyone forget to check the "cool lifestyle" box when improving their SMV.

I tell the girl exactly what's gonna happen when we meet up, and that we are going to my place afterwards straight to my place, that is one of the things that I don't want her to be guessing, I want her to know for a fact what's going to happen. Girls don't care about going out on a first date as long as the guy is truly sexy and has a very cool lifestyle. But who wants to do the hard work, right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wouldn't it just be easier to stay single and play the field?

[–]HedoNNN0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not sure about that... the more I talk about me honestly the more they're amazed about my life and the more I fuck them... so..

[–]Psyyko0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is one those advices that on paper sound great but in reality will often have the undesired effect. Life isn't a James Bond movie, though a lot of red pillers try to treated it as such. A lot of girls will move on and not give a fuck about you if you fail to present them with basic, clear information. Not everyone likes games. Not only that, but a lot of women will straight up not trust you and go away if they feel you're hidding shit.

[–]L3onard30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

“I Do X on the weekends”

Me too.

You’ll definitely want to keep that bitcoin private investment to yourself too.

[–]RompeChocha0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On the note of giving advice. I know it's men's nature to try to give people advice or solutions to their problems. But when I'm talking to girls, i try to give them horrible over the top bad advice, and that just makes the whole interaction more fun.

[–]bladecg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is definitely something I need to work on. Thanks.

[–]KuanLuPi0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Or, you could not be a boring man and you don’t have to run out of interesting things :)

I’m a talker and a mystery. My shit goes deep. This advice only works if you want the girl to assume your nothingness is actually mystery, but if she’s not dumb she will find out that you literally are jerking off and playing video games on your down time

[–]SlySoothSayer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’ve changed my perspective on this post, you can’t fake having it. Everything about you should be natural not contrived.

[–]ozenmacher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is good advice. The main reason it works is not just the mystery aspect, but it displays a level of IDGAF and non-neediness. You can take care of yourself. It shows immediately that you are higher value than her and she should spend the time displaying her value. The TRP ideal is that you display that naturally and that the end result is you are chill, relaxed, and don’t need to tell the world about yourself. “Faking it will you make” it won’t get you far here.

[–]bbcbarbarossa 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Or mayeb work on yourself to create a truly interesting life instead of lying and being dishonest about a shit life?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lying? Dishonest? Where in hell did OP mention lying and dishonesty? Maybe dye your hair blue next time.

[–]YoungBillionaire 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

What if you’re not fckin average joe? Lol kind of weak shit is this

[–]celincelin-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

a boring, basic, common man

Again with this misandrist bullshit.

What about you? Any accomplishments besides shitposting here?

[–]nobody_thinks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

i presume that he meant in the eyes of the woman. women hate the average, that's just fact.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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