It's been over a year since I posted my Ultimate Tinder Roadmap. I also did a Part 2.
Part 1: http://archive.is/Nonl5
Part 2: http://archive.is/ONAMx
This is Part 3. It's not so much of an add on, as much as it is a 2019 Refresh. I'll hit on or rehash points I covered in Part 1 or Part 2, but deal with it.
It seems like EVERY POST on TRP these days about Tinder, Bumble and other apps is nothing but a poster shitting all over them, and then other posters circlejerking in agreement about how dumb online dating apps are and how we all need to avoid them. If you think that online dating apps like Tinder and Bumble are not worthwhile, and say that men shouldn't bother with them because they only exist for female validation or that its only useful for the Top 1% of men or that you should only focus 100% on in person game or any other hamstering garbage to justify why you think they are stupid,
You Suck Dick BY CHOICE.
TRP has been infected with a plague of
Incel MGTOW losers who do nothing but shit on online dating apps and whine and cry about it. Let me tell you something - you have NOTHING TO LOSE by using a dating app. So why would you just avoid it all together? There has to be only one explanation, you suck dick by choice, and use Grindr.
Muh Tinder only has girls on there who want validation. So? That doesn't mean 100% of them are, faggot.
Muh Tinder only works if you are in the Top 20%. So? That doesn't mean have a defeatist attitude. Again, the competition sucks. It doesn't take much to have a Top 20% Tinder profile, cum guzzler.
Muh online dating is useless, muh in person game instead. Who said you can't do both, cocksucker?
I guarantee you the comment sections will be filled with the garbage above anyway, who didn't do anything except see the title of the post and rush down to comment. If you shit all over online dating apps, you're just bitter that you suck at it, or, the more likely explanation, you suck dick by choice. Chances are if you are reading this, you aren't one of those types, and therefore do not suck dick by choice.
The Rule 0 of Tinder
Your pictures are EVERYTHING. They will single handedly dictate your success or failure. If you aren't getting matches, its because of your pictures. I guarantee it.
One of the optional things you can do is create a female burner account on your computer(You can use Tinder from a computer) and scout the men in your area. You'll see your competition is mostly pathetic. However the men with the highest ELO scores generally are shown first, so you can get an idea of who the top men in the area are off the bat. I am not sure how consistent this is, as I have seen some lousy men shown off the bat when doing this. This is probably explained by new profiles also getting a boost and shown toward the top.
Most Men suck at this. Realize this and capitalize on it. That's why I say it doesn't take much to have a Top 20% Tinder profile.
The Douche Assumption
All women who use these apps automatically assume, without hesitation, that every man they will come across is a creep, or a douche, or most commonly, both. It's up to you, your profile, and your pictures(and eventually your messages/game when you match) to unqualify yourself as a creepy douche. If you have to ask yourself if your bio or your pictures make you look like a creep or a douche, it probably is.
The better your pictures are, the better your profile, and the better looking you are, the more benefit of the doubt you will get.
To recap, mallardcove's Tinder Maxim: You are guilty of being a creepy douche to every woman who you come across on these apps, until you prove yourself innocent.
Picture Selection is your greatest asset here. It will make or break you. If you aren't getting matches, 99% chance your pictures suck. You can blame the algorithims, or ego, or the "sluts who only care about validation and the Top 1% of Top 1% of Chads", but I can assure you its because your pictures suck.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF THIS ENTIRE GUIDE IN THE PARAGPRAH BELOW:
Obviously looking as good and attractive and well put together in your photos is important, but its not the only piece of the puzzle. Your pictures need to tell an emotional story. You know how women like to be taken on a roller coaster of emotions when you are with them? You need to do the same with your pictures. They need to take the woman who is viewing them on an emotional ride. They have to inspire emotion and excitement.
I once put 6 pictures on my Tinder profile that all scored 96% or higher on Photofeeler. I was not getting many matches. Because while I had the "attractive" part of the puzzle down, the problem is my pictures were boring. It appeared like the 6 pictures were more a part of a photoshoot specifically for Tinder(nothing comes across as more pathetic), than a group of 6 pictures that represented my exciting life.
Your best picture needs to go first. Otherwise she won't look at your other 5. Your first picture needs to clearly show your face and your entire body if possible. It needs to be your best all around picture.
Smiling too much is bad, especially if you are looking into the camera. I see a lot of Tinder Advice guides online that say smiling is good, but its not. You get one smiling while looking into the camera picture MAX, and it can't go first. If you have to have more pictures of you smiling, make sure it is not looking at the camera.
Shirtless pictures are fine as long as you have the 6 pack and muscles to back it up. And it has to be candid. No selfies, shirtless mirror pics, or obviously staged pics. It has to be outdoors. You're looking for plausible deniability here. If it appears like your shirtless picture was staged, you get tagged as a douche and she'll swipe left. A beach or lake is your best bet for plausible deniability here.
Avoid selfies of any kind. No outstreched arm pics, pics of you sitting in your car or at your computer, or mirror selfies. No. That's boring. And weak. It makes it appear like your life is so boring that your best pictures are ones you had to take yourself in boring situations.
Avoid pictures of you doing douchey shit, like flexing your arms. Avoid pictures that come across as douchey, like pictures taken at the gym.
Boat pictures are usually good but make sure you only have one.
Try to have at least one group picture where you are not the only one in the shot.
Dress Well in the pictures that call for it.
Basically here are 6 picture types that you can't go wrong with(in no particular order).
The Outdoors Picture - A picture of you doing something outdoors. The picture I have used for this one is a picture of me hiking, taken slightly overhead with my drone, so the height of how high I was up compared to ground level is on display. Hiking, fishing, boating, camping, etc. work here
The Action Picture - A picture of you doing something in action. Differs from the outdoors picture because this one is meant to be captured in the movement, while the outdoors picture is more of a still picture. The picture I have used for this one is a picture of me cliff jumping. Swimming, sports, motorsports, skydiving, and such work here. Avoid pictures of skateboarding, and only use biking if you are doing some kind of crazy jump. If you own a GoPro/Action camera it might not be a bad idea to use a picture or video still.
The Leather Jacket Picture - Can't go wrong with a leather jacket. Probably the best outerwear accessory that can be used. Women love guys in leather jackets, if you can pull it off - If you are a fatass, won't work. But if you are in shape you can't lose with a leather jacket. Just make sure the shot is candid. The leather jacket picture I use is one of me leaning on a balcony in Las Vegas overlooking the strip.
The Travel Picture - A picture of you at some kind of known touristy destination, preferably when traveling and not in your home location. I have used many pictures from this one, my favorite being with wild donkeys on Route 66 in Oatman, Arizona.
The Group Picture - Just make sure you have a picture of you in a group setting. It doesn't really matter where, when, how, or what; just make sure you look presentable. Bonus points if you have attractive women in the picture but its not a requirement. A picture with your bros or family is just as good.
The Shirtless Picture - You knew it was coming. ONLY put this one in if you can pull it off. By pull it off, I mean body fat percentages low enough to where you can see 6 pack abs, vein vascularity and muscle definition. If not, don't bother. It won't work if you don't have the definition, I don't care how big your arms are(its probably mostly tricep blubber anyway). It also has to be candid. No mirror selfies or gym selfies. The situation and scenario of the picture has to make way for plausible deniability. The shirtless picture I currently use is one of me docking a boat at a marina. Yes, I purposely planned the picture, but women who see it won't know that. They will just think someone took a picture of me while I was docking a boat. On full display is my muscle definition, washboard abs and vein vascularity. It also helps if you are tanned and not pale. I did a self tan the night before this picture.
If you can't pull off the shirtless picture, just try to find another good Outdoors, Action or Travel picture to use for #6.
Lead off with the best non smiling picture of the bunch that isn't the group or shirtless picture. I lead with my Oatman Donkey picture.
How to get good pictures
Getting 6 good pictures is harder than it sounds. It presents logistical and technological obstacles. Putting yourself in social situations where others are taking pictures can work but even then you will still need to be able to take some pictures yourself.
Myself, I own a drone. This allows me to get good shots outside from all kinds of angles. My boat docking, shirtless picture, and hiking pictures would not be possible without it. I also used my GoPro for my cliff jumping picture. But for those of you who don't want to spend a couple hundred on a good drone(DJI Spark is a good option for $300) or action camera, you can use your phone and buy a cheap tripod for it. Then a selfie stick with a remote control so you can take pictures remotely.
Editing your pictures is fine, but if you can tell the picture has been edited, its overdone. It's fine to edit/post process your photos, but keep it subtle and realistic. Don't apply a million different filters and effects. Color correction is fine. Don't use face softeners. For the shirtless picture, it may not be a bad idea to up the texture, contrast and clarity to make your abs show better and look more shredded overall.
I can hear it already "Muh thats a lot of time and investment for pictures on a dating app where sluts only care about validation and the Top 0.1% of men Muh". Fuck off with that shit, dick sucker by choice. Like everything else in life, your results are the outcome of what you put into it. If you don't think its worth all this trouble, fine, but realize that you are just going to be behind those who either put more effort in, or are naturally more gifted than you. I am not saying you can't get good photos without investing in equipment, it just makes it easier. It is perfectly attainable to get 6 good photos with just your phone.
Most girls don't read it unless they have already matched you or are thinking of matching you. If your profile is good enough, they'll swipe right on you without reading the profile then they will read it later. If they are on the fence, it will be a possible deal breaker.
Here is my stance on bios. They can not help you at all. They can only hurt. It's similar to the concept of texting outside of logistics. Nowhere to go but down. So keep it short and factual. Keep the jokes and essays and other garbage out. Too many men out there write fucking essays and you will see this if you scout. No one is going to read that shit. And it makes you look too thirsty.
Two options I like to use. One is just a straight quick bio.
If you are over 6 feet tall, put it in there. Put your location and a couple of words.
Example: "6'1, East Side, looking for adventures"
Option #2 is a straight quick quote or saying. Whether it be a song lyric or excerpt from a book or something. As long as its short and sweet, its fine.
Example(don't use this, its purely an example): "There's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die"
Tinder has a built in ELO score that is hidden to users. It's basically a power ranking of your profile. The higher your score, the more other high score users will see you, and vice versa. This is why having great pictures and a good profile is vital. You only can help your ELO score by being swiped right by others, but there are ways you can tank your ELO score for reasons other than not being swiped. One of which...
Do Not Overswipe
Limit the number of swipes(either direction) you do per day. This is for several reasons. A big one is if you swipe too much, Tinder will think you are a bot and shadow ban your profile. You'll be seen by no one and you have to wait several days if not more until it reverses. At the same time, you still have to swipe some in order to be seen by others and calibrate your ELO score. I think 50 per day is a good number to settle on, but space it out. No more than a dozen in any given session. I've had my accounts shadowbanned too many times for overswiping.
Why I think Tinder Gold is (still) a good investment
I am not a Tinder employee or shill, nor am I someone trying to get you to buy it. Here is why Tinder Gold works for me.
Because you can see who has already swiped right on you, meaning you don't have to worry about overswiping. Yes, 98% of your like queue will be garbage, but its still a good way to see who is active
You know which girls are active on Tinder and not dormant.
Because you can get the ball rolling on your time table. Timing plays a key role in these dating apps, so being able to dictate the flow and when things start is a bigger deal than you think it is.
The geography feature is good if you travel a lot, so you can scope out women and have things lined up before you even get to your destination.
The extra super likes and free boost is fine, but those are my 4 key features.
Best done Tuesday or Wednesday Nights from my experience around 8pm. This is when girls are really open because they are looking for weekend plans if they don't have any already. If you have Tinder Gold you'll get a shitload of (mostly low value) likes and its fun to watch them roll in by the gross.
Mixed results for me. It gets you matches and puts your profile infront of her, but sometimes she will accept your superlike out of pity, and you'll be shit tested multiple times harder because the notion of a super like comes across as a bit thirsty. Be prepared to follow up a super like match with absolute rock solid frame or she isn't going to meet up with you. Another reason why the Tinder Gold like queue is helpful, because you can find girls who have already liked you. Save the Super Likes for situations where you absolutely want her attention. It's a gamble.
What to do when you have matched
There are two ways to match. One is where she matches you after you have already matched her. Two is where you match her after she has already matched you.
Regardless of how it works, you don't want to appear thirsty. Thirsty guys will message her as soon as the match hits. At the same time, you have a small window. The clock is ticking and you are competing against other guys for her attention.
I usually give it a couple hours. This way you give her a window for the chance of her message you(it will happen occassionally if your profile is good enough). And have enough time pass not to appear thirsty, but quick enough to where she hasn't had enough time to be swept away by another dude.
This is also another reason why I prefer Tinder Gold and matching with girls out of the like queue. This way you can make everything on your time table. It's best to match girls Sunday-Wednesday. That is when they are open and looking. She already has plans Thursday-Saturday. Also its best to match with her in the late afternoon or night, not the morning. This way you can get the ball rolling at the right times. It puts you in a squeeze when she matches with you at 1am and you are asleep.
Before moving onto an opener I always do as much vetting of the match as I can. This way if she is catfishing me, or isn't who she says she is, I know before wasting any time at all on her.
It shouldn't be too hard to find her Facebook, Instagram, etc. Utilize her social media pages to make sure she has no red flags or isn't using 5 year old pictures or isn't actually a fat landwhale. Don't tell the girls you did this - its creepy. It is creepy, but its necessary. And girls do it to us. I've had several matches tell me they looked up info about me online before meeting.
Also, reverse google image search is your friend. It should be easy to spot fake profiles and bots, but every now and then some fake profiles look legit. Reverse google image search if you aren't sure.
I think guys put too much thought into openers. And too many guys try to follow some kind of structured script for every match.
What I've learned from my experience is every girl is different. Every match is different. It's too organic of a process and what works on one girl won't work on another. It's something you have to develop kind of a gut instinct for.
Witty/funny/pun openers work on some and not others. One thing for sure is that they don't work on girls you have super liked because you already have one beta strike against you for super liking, going the pun/witty/funny route is Strike 2.
Others being firm and direct works well.
Remember what I said early on - the douche assumption. All women automatically will assume you are a creepy douche. It's up to you to break that assumption.
My openers are one of three approaches. Approach #1 I usually like to open by referencing something in her pictures or profile. For example a girl I matched who was from Omaha. My opener: "I always have a good time in Omaha". Another example is complimenting one of her clothing choices. This isn't beta validation if its done as an opener, its an ice breaker. It's only beta validation when done later on, and multiple times. But women love being complimented by strangers as an ice breaker. Approach #2 is using a GIF. Approach #3 is being direct with just saying her name, or "Hi" or "What's Up" but that is rare. Not saying it doesn't work but I go with that direction if I have nothing for Approach #1 or #2.
Openers are not as important as people make them out to be, but that is not saying they aren't important. She has already made the decision in her mind if she will fuck you based on your profile and pictures, now its on you to prove to her you aren't a creepy douche in order to actually meet up with you. The opener and ensuing conversation is about making her comfortable with the idea of meeting you.
The ensuing conversation
Again, the idea here is not to "win her over". She has already made up her mind whether or not she wants to fuck you. If she wants to fuck you, you've already done that with your profile and pictures. If not, there is nothing you can do or say to change that fact.
The idea here is to make her comfortable with meeting up with you. I will keep repeating the maxim - She automatically assumes you are a douche/creep until you prove otherwise.
That's the idea of the ensuing conversation. Your goal is to make her comfortable with the idea of meeting up with you and/or giving you her number in as short of a conversation as possible.
Some girls this will only take a few messages. Others might need a bit more time and rapport. Again, its an organic process. How badly you want the girl should determine how much time and effort you are willing to put in(not saying be ultra thirsty for the best ones). But, if a 5 wants a lot of rapport, its probably not worth it, where as a 9 or 10 would be worth the effort of a rapport build.
I am not saying that sexual innuendo or sexually charged conversation will automatically put you in creep/douche territory, but your SMV has to be high and you have to be extremely smooth with it. It's a very fine line. If you insist on being sexual in your conversation, its best to be direct about it and just make your intentions known instead of try to sugar coat it and beat around the bush.
Regardless your goal should be to get off the Tinder app as soon as possible. Find an opening to get her number and take it to text. Knowing the right time to ask for her number is more of a "feel" thing that you have intuition for. There is no magic number of back and forth messages you need before you ask for it, nor is there a hard ceiling of messages that you have to ask for her number if you hit that point. If she needs more rapport, you can do it over text instead of in the Tinder app. But from my experience a phone number is usually good enough to start pushing for logistics.
Less is More
Like with texting outside of logistics, you should be very careful in how much you divulge about yourself when communicating with your matches. Try to reveal as little about yourself as possible. You can not make her more attracted to you by what you say, you can only hurt yourself. Goal #1 is to get her number. Goal #2 is to push for logistics. Do not lose sight of either of those goals. You might need to divulge some info about yourself to accomplish both goals, but be very mindful. Once you have #1, immediately push for #2. If she wants more time, fine, but ration it and keep it to a minimum and re-push for #2 again. Once you have the logistics set up, keep all contact to a minimum until you meet up, preferably go no-contact. Ignore her if you have to.
Shit or Get Off the Pot
Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of girls will never be comfortable with the idea of going out with or meeting up with a guy they met on dating apps. There will always be a stigma attached to it, and while they download the app thinking they are open to the concept, when it actually comes time to shit or get off the pot, they will chicken out.
For example, she downloads the app, and is open to the possibilities. She matches with a guy, and is open to the possibilities. They talk a bit, and she is open to the possibilities. He asks for her number or asks her to meet up. Then she freezes. It has become real. In her mind she was open to the idea, but in reality she isn't.
It's similar to someone saying they will go on a big roller coaster, but when they actually get in line and get up to the car to get on the ride, they chicken out.
This will happen. Just move on and if she comes around eventually, great.
Flaking will happen, in all stages. Flaking will happen after the first message, after you get her number, after you try to arrange a meetup, after you have arranged a meet up. Get used to it. Don't get butthurt about it, if you do it shows you are too invested in a Tinder Match you have never even fucking met. Move on.
Like I said, women are fickle, and in their mind they might be open to meeting up with a guy on Tinder or giving him her phone number, but when it actually comes time to do it, she flakes. It's not you, it's them.
Do not get too invested into your matches. This goes for women in general, but for fucks sake especially don't do it with Tinder matches.
It's for this reason I laugh when I hear guys on AskTRP talking about running "dread" or "soft nexting" their Tinder Matches. None of that is possible until you have stuck your penis inside of her. Yes, tactics like ignoring her, taking a long time to reply to her messages and obeying the 2/3 rule will help, but you're 100% wrong if you think you have her wrapped around your finger before you have ever met her. You don't.
When Age Gap matters
In general, age gap doesn't matter. When a woman finds a man attractive, she doesn't give a shit about his age, or hamsters it away into a positive. Plausible deniability also plays a role. If she doesn't know his age, she will hamster him to be younger than he probably is.
But with online dating, that's not the case. Remember the CREEP AND DOUCHE ASSUMPTION. She is automatically assuming all men on these apps are either creeps, douches, or both. She may swipe right on men in which there is a significant age gap, but when they actually match and he actually starts talking to her, the CREEP or DOUCHE alarm starts to go off and its up to him to prove he is not. There is also no plausible deniability since your age is right there on display. Her hamster won't work, even if you are attractive.
I am not saying its impossible to succeed when there is an age gap - I have many times. But, the bar you have to clear is a lot higher when it comes to breaking down the creep/douche assumption shield. The best way to approach an age gap(higher than half your age + 7) is bare minimum investment. Match, escalate, get the meetup or move on.
You and dozens of others
Keep in mind that you are not the only guy competing for the attention of your matches. The more attractive she is, the more guys she has competing for her time and attention. In order to meet up with her you have to become her top option. A lot of times this just won't happen and she will flake away. Deal with it. This is why I recommend striking while the iron is hot and not wasting any time. Escalate to getting her number and arranging a meet up as soon as you can. Do not think its wise to "slowly move the conversation toward meeting up" or "taking your time to get to know her" or "not wanting to move too fast". If you don't move fast, another guy will and she will likely ghost you. When you get ghosted or flaked on its almost always because another guy. How dumb will you feel that you wasted all that time and it didn't work out?
Remember, its a Tinder Match. She has no emotional investment or attachment into you at all. She just sees you as an option until you meet up with her. Too many guys delude themselves into thinking that because you matched, she has investment in you. She doesn't. That's how women are. As long as she is just a Tinder Match, You. Have. No. Leverage. Your power plays aren't going to work yet.
Where to Meet Up
I always meet up at a bar. Usually an open one with a patio where we can have space. Do not go to a sit down restaurant. If you strike it off then you can take it somewhere else. But a bar is a good relaxed setting to vet her and see if she is who she is in person.
Bumble vs. Tinder
Both apps have their strengths and weaknesses.
Tinder is generally better for hookups or flings. The userbase skews younger(18-22 is the hot zone) and the userbase does not take it as seriously. A big pond with a lot of fish that aren't as interested in biting. There is more of a stigma attached to using this app.
Bumble is better for something more than a hookup. You will have more success in terms of % on Bumble but not as many overall number of matches. The problem is that the userbase is smaller and more inactive. It's a smaller pond with less fish, but the fish are more interested in biting. The active userbase will be a lot more serious. Also it skews older, which can be good or bad. You'll get more mature women(in terms of behavior) and not immature 18 year olds, but they are older(23-25 is the hot zone). Less of a stigma with this app, it has been accepted as something not to be ashamed of.
Given the 2 I prefer Bumble, simply because there are less games. The women who are active on there aren't going to mess around. Generally women you match with will be open to meeting up and won't waste your time. The issue is that you can run through the stack of active women rather quickly and it then becomes a waiting game for new women to start using the app.
This isn't saying Tinder doesn't have its advantages. Both are good apps, but fill slightly different niches. Tinder is a numbers game. Tinder is a shotgun, Bumble is a sniper rifle.
I do not recommend the Bee Line(Bumble's version of Tinder Gold) because there just aren't enough active women on there to justify it.
People say its best to delete your profile and remake it because Tinder and Bumble automatically boost new users to the top of other's stacks for a couple of days. I've tested it myself to mixed results and no one seems to know for sure. I would say in my testing restarting a profile would backfire more than it would help. I think Tinder and Bumble both have ways of knowing if you are a retread or not. More often than not I would remake profiles and be seen by no one. I'd get no matches. At the very least you will know you are getting matches because even if you aren't a Tinder Gold/Beeline subscriber you will see those "Liked You" queue numbers go up anyway. But if it stays stuck at the same number, even if your preferences are a wide net, you're invisible.
I advise against restarting your profile too much. If you must do it, I recommend going dark for at least 30 days, if not longer. I've heard rumblings that your data is discarded and they forget you after 60 days, but who knows these days. Data is valuable, and I am skeptical of these companies discarding it. Some say all you need is a burner phone number or Facebook account, but I swear I think that these companies can track IP or facial recognition in photos because despite using a new phone and such they still seemed to shadowban me during my tests.
DO NOT USE A BURNER FACEBOOK FOR YOUR SERIOUS ACCOUNT. The problem is that burner facebook accounts, if flagged, can be treated like a spam bot, which will not only lock you out of your Facebook, but your Tinder/Bumble accounts as well. This has happened to me before, and I wasted money on my Tinder Gold subscription due to it. Use one for a scouting account, but not your main account.
The best way to do it is to make sure you have all your ducks in a row and shit together - pictures, bio, etc. before launching your Tinder/Bumble profiles.
Tinder and Bumble and other apps like these are weapons any red pilled man needs to have in his arsenal. There is no negative or downside to having them, and you have nothing but upside. It's a great way to run passive game to supplement your in person game. It helps you cultivate abundance and raise your N-Count. Even if you only fuck 1 girl on these apps every 2 months, that's still 6 additional notches per year that you gained through minimal investment. It adds up.
Anyone who shits on these apps or say they are a waste of time is an incel/MGTOW retard who sucks dick by choice.