Why do good-looking men date ugly women?

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July 27, 2019

Just after a red pill perspective here. I'm not talking about a good-looking guy with an average woman. I get that. I mean a handsome guy who is good-looking and charming guy who CAN get much better looking women with a fugly. I mean a guy who is a 7 with a 3.

A huge gap in attractiveness.

This is the red pill so I wouldn't expect the beauty on the inside nonsense here. Are these men mentally defective in some way that they can get hot tail but choose the fugly option?

Edit: I am not asking about plain Janes here who compensate by being good in bed etc I am talking about pink-haired, piggy-eyed landwhales who could lose 8 stone and STILL not be classed anorexic.

Post Information
Title Why do good-looking men date ugly women?
Author Threecompasses
Upvotes 118
Comments 144
Date 27 July 2019 07:08 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/247015
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/ciegts/why_do_goodlooking_men_date_ugly_women/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
landwhalethe red pill

[–]horologist2018 1 points [recovered]  (61 children) | Copy

Sometimes it's easy to narrow down, other times, I'm baffled.

One guy I used to work with, he was great. Super talkative, great laugh, muscular as fuck, very intelligent; overall just a very well put together guy. His wife was ugly as fuck. She cooked, cleaned, sewed his clothes, sewed the kids clothes, everything. Overall a great wife who did everything for him and their family. I brought it up to one of my friends, and he said "dude, they met in high school, did you see what he looked like in high school?" Nope, I sure haven't. I got on his facebook and looked at pictures of him in High School; fat, acne, gross hair, overall just nasty. After they got married, he got in shape, got a good hair cut, lost the acne. Essentially his SMV just skyrocketed and hers went down even further after having kids.

Another guy I work with, this dude is a dead ringer for Don Draper. His wife is a god damned cow. At first, when dealing with this guy, I kept thinking "what the fuck? How? Seriously. How?" Until I got to know him. His personality doesn't match his looks even slightly. Total goofball, immature as fuck, stupid jokes, terrible with social cues. This guy is like a caricature of a Magic the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons nerd; but in Don Draper's body. I brought this up to a girl I work with, and she verified for me: "Yeah, that dude is sexy as fuck. But he's WEIRD."

Finally. A girl I work with. This girl is a troll. Easily a 2/10. Literally nothing attractive about her, or her personality. Gross. Utterly disgusting. And her husband looks like a god damned viking. Built as fuck, masculine, deep voice; generally a well put together dude.

Who knows, man.

[–][deleted] 118 points119 points  (53 children) | Copy

So summed up

scarcity mindset


men who do not realize that they are the prize

[–]babybopp107 points108 points  (52 children) | Copy

Reality is that there are girls out there that don’t assign to this feminist movement and treat you as a man really good. They don’t manipulate sex, always willing to be down and make u feel like u are a king without agenda. They just want a man they can love with no bullshit. These girls are the best. They are the ones who will bail u out of jail at 3am with no second thought. Sometimes they are not attractive but they are loyal as fuck. So attractiveness does not mean a good relationship. Get yourself one of them.

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten31 points32 points  (27 children) | Copy

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life

Never make a pretty woman your wife

So from my personal point of view

Get an ugly girl to marry you



[–]nobody_thinks13 points14 points  (26 children) | Copy

the stoics advocated marrying an average looking woman.

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten4 points5 points  (25 children) | Copy

The stoics also came from an Era where you had kids with women and fucked men. Maybe we messed up

[–]nobody_thinks17 points18 points  (24 children) | Copy

lol that is mostly a myth. jews and early christians claimed that the greeks where gay as a way to de-legitimatize their philosophy. you can't find any evidence of homosexuality in early classical literature.

[–]red_matrix8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy

This! Everyone loves to point out that Achilles and Patroclus were gay lovers and that’s why Achilles rages, humiliates and kills Hector in the Iliad. They shared a deep non-sexual love, a bro-mance, however the degenerate west is trying to paint them as homosexuals. The Iliad was the considered to be the Bible in ancient times. Anything to slander it and it’s wisdom.

[–]HurricaneHugues2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was just rewatching Troy the other day, though not a direct copy of the Iliad, it's a damn good movie. Brad Pitt killed it as Achilles.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The embodiment of Chad

[–]nobody_thinks4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

oves to point out that Achilles and Patroclus were gay lovers

There is literally not one line in homer that is even remotely fucking gay. The iliad is probably one of the most masculine books written in the history of man. What happened is that a bunch of degenerate, non-greek fags starting jerking off to the idea of bdsm with big manly greek warriors and from that they started whisper campaigns about how greek warriors were secretly gay.

it's one of the first examples of trolling actually.

[–]red_matrix2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

History revisionism at its finest! College and universities are doing everything they can to disgrace and overturn western civilization. The Iliad and Odyssey were the Bible’s if the time, desecrating them like this is what’s happening all over the west, including recent European history.

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten2 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy

You are a fucking troglodyte. Zeno of Citium was the founder of stoicism and vigorously promoted indifference to homosexuality, himself regarded an "exclusive boy lover"

You need history lessons

[–]nobody_thinks1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

bro i looked at your link and you have got to be joking me.

First of all, the pdf you linked to is written by a gay activist. It makes all types of bullshit statements and baseless claims. The pdf looks like it is out of a Cambridge encyclopedia but it is literally just gay propaganda.

vigorously promoted indifference to homosexuality

this is absurd. There are zero extant writings from Zeno. We know the title of all or most of his works. None of them have anything to do with promoting homosexuality. The entire gestalt of stoic philosophy is restraint of the passions and pro-family. We know from first hand commentators that Zeno considered family essential to the pursuit of a wise man.

And your gay activist homosexual pseudo-intellectual can find one commentator in antiquity who wrote after Zeno died who called him a fag? Bro that is just trolling. The ancients talked all types of shit about one another.

Since when are gay activists TRP endorsed. WTF is going on here?

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

Zeno wrote a work called The Republic that was meant to refute Plato's. Fragments of this exist, and from the basis about what we know of Zeno's stoic philosophy.

Interestingly, they did not disagree on homosexuality. Zeno and the stoics believed in free love, and didn't take issue with adultery. The platonists and Seneca etc strongly condemned it as degenerate for society. I'll prove the platonists (the defining ethos of ancient Greece) in fact thought gay male love was superior.

Plato's Symposium has Aristophanes tell a tale of human origins. The Greeks believed humans began as 2 four legged creatures split by Zeus for fear of their strength. As a result, each half sought the other. This was the idea of "soul mates" that is Platonic. Section 191c however is completely explicit about why and how the two male and two female halves might seek one another. I'll quote the Greek and translate:

ὥσπερ οἱ τέτ- τιγες—μετέθηκέ τε οὖν οὕτω αὐτῶν εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν καὶ διὰ τούτων τὴν γένεσιν ἐν ἀλλήλοις ἐποίησεν, διὰ τοῦ ἄρρενος ἐν τῷ θήλει, τῶνδε ἕνεκα, ἵνα ἐν τῇ συμπλοκῇ ἅμα μὲν εἰ ἀνὴρ γυναικὶ ἐντύχοι, γεννῷεν καὶ γίγνοιτο τὸ γένος, ἅμα δ᾽ εἰ καὶ ἄρρην ἄρρενι, πλησμονὴ γοῦν γίγνοιτο τῆς συνουσίας καὶ διαπαύοιντο καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἔργα τρέποιντο καὶ τοῦ ἄλλου βίου ἐπιμελοῖντο.

Right after Plato is describing the "parts which propagate the species" aka genitals - they were "moved to the front" in 191b right before this section, which begins 191c:

to be used for procreation—in the female genital by the male; so that if in their embrace a man should come upon a woman there be conception and continuation of humankind; and also, if male met with male they might have satiety of their union and a respite, and so might turn to their labor and their interest to ordinary life. Thus anciently is mutual love ingrained

So there's explicit endorsement of homosexuality number one. But the clincher comes in 191e and 192a. Plato is describing what happens when various combinations (male male, male female, female female) occur. He describes the male/male type union as:

Men who are sections of the male pursue the masculine, and so long as their youth lasts they show themselves to be of the male part by making friends with men and delighting [192a] to lie with them and to be held in men's sexual embraces; these are the finest boys, for they have the most manly nature. Some say they are shameless, but falsely: for their behavior is due not to shamelessness but to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome their own kind. Certain evidence of this is the fact that when reaching maturity these alone prove in a public career to be men.

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Class dismissed faggot. Go read books before making up nonsense based on your feelings. Nice Wikipedia sourcing by the way. Try coming up with your own ideas.

[–]riggedved47 points48 points  (16 children) | Copy


Out of the four plates I'm seeing, there is this one who is maybe a 6 on a good day. The others are 7s and 8s. The 6 knocks them all out with her personality and simply the way she treats me. She treats me like a king! She is always down for it. Once I needed money and I asked her, she immediately lent it to me, without asking questions. She keeps talking about how she wants to take care of me and serve me. I would pick her over the rest any day. I went as far to tell her that I don't really find her that attractive. Since then, she been hitting the gym 6 times a week no joke. She lives in another city and she hasn't sent me a pic, saying that she will present herself to me and I will be mind-blown. So she wants me to wait. She will be visiting come August. This girl has seriously won me over with her personality and her submissiveness. I find her much more feminine than the other stuck up 7s and 8s who are complaining about one thing or the other. Also, she seems the most sorted and happy out of them all. She has her life in place. The others are suffering from some kind of anxiety/depression, which is the story with 90% attractive girls these days.

I am actually anticipating seeing her. She sent me a picture of her ripped abs, they look like Gwen Stefani's! This girl is a jewel of a person to me, even if she ain't that attractive.

[–]BuzzLightGear321 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy

How long will it be since you last seen her? Ripped abs? Anything less than 6 months, and that's crazy improvement.

[–]riggedved21 points22 points  (9 children) | Copy

Exactly why I am so impressed with her. She is devoted to my desires. Tough to find a girl like her.

By ripped abs, that might come off a little exxagerated, but not exactly rip, but flat and in shape. Really attractive to my eyes.

I last saw her during the first week of June. She stayed with me for a week. I still remember, I was lying in bed and watching TV, she herself offered to suck my dick lol. Who does that?!?

Anyway, after she left, she kept calling me and as usual I hardly answer. I thought I will tell her the truth, and I did, told her I wasn't really that attracted to her. She is decently attractive to say the least, she has some orbitors.

After I told her the truth: Well, she entered a strict diet, and she fasts a lot. Not Intermittent Fasts, but full blown 24 hour fasts. She is also a devout Hindu and a worshipper of Lord Shiva, who's devotees fast every Monday. She told me she's working out 7 days a week, early morning (she wakes up at 5) and in the evening. She even works out during her fasting days. I told her that's a lot, she needs to let her body rest and recover. Being the awesome girl she is, she listened to my advise and started taking a day off a week.

Also, I am 32 and she is 26. The age difference imho is perfect. Sometimes I don't reply to her for days. But every morning I see a text from her wishing me "Goodmorning" and "Have a nice day". I have put her through so many tests, since past 2 years, and she has passed all of them.

That's what I call true devotion.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a classic way for girls to secure a high quality man and especially for average girls, because they know their vagina alone does not have such a high market value.

The strategy is to make her man feel like a king. A king is served completely. Food, sex, massage, encouragement, etc. Whenever he wants it. A king is not nagged, a king is not talked over, screamed at or told what to do, and he is not there to listen to someone bitch complain about shit outside his kingdom.

Almost all girls do this instinctively, but the smart ones really go far and beyond. Because they know a king is very rare, and even if he fucks courtesans he only has one queen to trust and help him rule over his kingdom.

In today's world the media tells everybody that all women are queens by default, and all men are the court's fool. The stupid ones listen.

[–]oldguy_19819 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don’t you think that by raising her SMV, other dudes will swoop in?

[–]riggedved5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I dont know, and tbh, I dont care. If they do swoop in and she leaves me, well, I got my answer about her.

[–]Atheist_Utopia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

so you gonna marry her?

[–]empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Ah she’s Indian. I assume you’re white. Explains it.

[–]riggedved1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

No, I'm Indian too.

[–]empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh shit. Even stranger then.

[–]ziphias0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Shouldn't you be bitching about how being Indian makes it impossible to get laid? Keep slaying king

[–]riggedved0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I dont think so. What makes you say that? I’ve heard this before too, but I dont agree. I know couple of Indian guys who slay.

As a matter of fact, whenever I travel to the US (i used to travel to US every year for work, work for a week, and take 3 weeks off and travel solo around the country), I used to always have girls approaching me. Thats why I love America lol, because women approach you themselves..and are pretty cool and down for it.

In NY, I became friends with a girl and she invited me over to a party, which had mostly females. At the party, it was basically her, and 2 of her friends , one a single mom and one a real estate agent, who were chilling with me. Later, I went to my friends apartment and we literally banged for 30 hours straight, including short naps, only getting up from bed to buy cigarettes and coffee.

She messaged her real estate friend that she slept had with me. You know what was the reply from the real estate girl (an HB 7.5) “I wanna sleep with him too.” If I wasnt leaving the country that day, I would have tried to propose a threesome haha.

Another situation, after getting done with a gruelling work week in LA, I took a bus to Vegas (love the poker action in Vegas). There was a blonde sitting next to me. When the bus stops midway for refreshments, she straight up asked me “are you travelling alone”, I said yes. She then asked me “wanna have a meal together?”

Lol, during the remainder of the journey, I made her cancel her hotel room so she could stay at mine. We had a great 4 days together in Vegas. She squirted like crazy too, never seen that in my life. Even went to a strip club and i asked the hottest stripper to give her a lapdance with me watching. We parted ways post our trip and she sent me nudes later too haha. God Bless America!

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are no unicorns, but there are girls who respond accordingly and put in the effort.

[–]Angelrun2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Threecompasses[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

But I'm not asking about plain Janes here. I mean really fat piggy-eyed landwhales. The sort who could lose 8 stone and STILL not be anorexic.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There's something "off" about the guys personality/mental state.

[–]WalicKonia 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

This, struggled with this alot and then what helped me get over the hump was the quote about beauty being only skin deep but finding someone amazing like you described is a rare thing. The current women I'm with is beautiful in my eyes, she treats me like a king, cooks, cleans, gives me sex everyday without questions, is always there for me even when I hit hard times and she did bail me out of jail before. I've been with beautiful women but most of them have some kind of big negatives.

[–]babybopp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude .. yep helps us a lot... a huge fucking lot. But as a field agent you sometimes meet that gal that does not fit the stereotype. She is down to fuck any time so u are not ever thirsty. You always focused on making money as a result. She never back talks and always respects u. No bullshit whatsoever. She will gladly have ur kids and u know she will make a good mother. She probably would take a bullet for u. She has seen u at ur worst and never uses that against u. When u get one like this don’t game her. Keep her

[–]Threecompasses[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There are men who have a thing for fat ugly women, however, no man is going to feel romantic which is the basis for a relationship (not just quick hole,) towards a woman who is just plain ugly to him. Therefore he must fake it if he's with her for convenience reasons. She is probably not stupid and knows he doesn't mean it and she will get very jealous easily. The shit tests will come thick and fast.

If he is mentally deficient: ie she is like a mother to him because he is strange and cannot stand on his own two feet, his life will be hell.

So no ugliness does not always equal goodness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

There's very little that I can think of that's more inherently blue pilled than committing to a girl you find ugly, because you're desperate enough for commitment to settle like that.

The reality is that, in 2019, the vast majority of women are not LTR material. Some of these are ugly, some are not. This is just reality. Men adapt to reality, hence

enjoy the decline.

[–]Mewster18184 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think he means that a girl who is a 10 isn't always better than a girl who is an 8 if the 8's personality is better. Not that you should get with women you find unattractive, but that among the women you do find attractive the ones with higher SMV aren't necessarily going to be the better ones to date in any lasting sense.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He specifies that 'attractiveness' should not be a man's focus when looking for an LTR

I agree to an extent - it shouldn't be the sole focus, but personally if I'm gonna be committing to any girl you can be damn sure I'll choose one who makes my dick hard, so while physical attraction isn't everything it's still a very important component

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think he means that a girl who is a 10 isn't always better than a girl who is an 8 if the 8's personality is better.

Any reasonable guy would take an 8 with an incredible personality over a vapid 10 any day of the week.

[–]JesterBLB11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the book Practical Female Psychology, one author mentioned how for LTR, you and your girl's sex drives must be compatible i.e if you have a low sex drive, you won't be able to handle a woman with a high sex drive (she'd be constantly bitchy, shit testing). Maybe some of these guys are like that, so they don't really mind a lower smv woman as long as she's nice to them.

Or you know, men not aware of trp have just relied on universe/coincidences to find their woman. As in, they never chased girls but just found one. In such cases, it's usually the woman who pursued the guy.

[–]Threecompasses[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Weird? Yes this is true. An old friend who I thought was a cool dude when we were in our twenties and could get lots of hot girls ended up with a land whale in his thirties. He is still with her at 50 even though she has cuckolded him (see invicibility comment above).

He was still living at home in his thirties, never worked though could. Parents on verge of chucking him out, fwb land whale offers to take him in. Land whale starts treating him like shit because she knows that he cannot seriously be into her and is just using her.

Cue two unhappy people.

Yep, mentally defective.

[–]RivenHalf7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Another guy I work with, this dude is a dead ringer for Don Draper. His wife is a god damned cow. At first, when dealing with this guy, I kept thinking "what the fuck? How? Seriously. How?" Until I got to know him. His personality doesn't match his looks even slightly. Total goofball, immature as fuck, stupid jokes, terrible with social cues. This guy is like a caricature of a Magic the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons nerd; but in Don Draper's body. I brought this up to a girl I work with, and she verified for me: "Yeah, that dude is sexy as fuck. But he's WEIRD."

Oh hey it's me lol yeah it happens

[–]Lego_My_Alter_Eggo3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your first example is a smart woman. She realized she wasn't a model, so she chose to become womanly in every other way possible, and choose to invest in a man she saw who had potential. It paid off for her as the man realized his potential.

[–]jackandjill220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting. But this isn't always the case though.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Yeah, that dude is sexy as fuck. But he's WEIRD."

I think this is the correct answer. I really can't recall any relationships with the disparity of SMV as big as cited in OP, but the few I am thinking that come close, the guy is a legit weirdo. Girls pick up on personality disorders/malfunctions very easily, I'm guessing for guys like that, it's a matter of finding girls who are willing to overlook personality deficiencies, which tend to be those at the bottom.

[–]iamhe020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

😂 LMAO! Great comment.

[–]Mewster181821 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm surprised no one's mentioned "wife goggles". There's actual evidence that many men don't notice a decline in their mate's SMV once they've made a mating-bond(ie marriage + children). Biologically it makes sense, women will hit the wall and if they have children it's unrealistic that they'll return to looking exactly the way they were before children yet our species generally has relied on a co-parenting relationship between the man and woman for child-rearing. So if men didn't form an attachment to their mate regardless of lowering SMV it wouldn't help to ensure the safety of the species.

As long as they have a good relationship(respectful, caring, etc.) her lower SMV wouldn't be a reason for him to leave a marriage and his children, the problem really now is that society has broken down the original purpose of marriage and nobody seems to know how to treat others properly or to act themselves(which really does stem from two things: feminism and the emphasis on good-looks over being a good person).

[–]Pimpcool42032 points33 points  (17 children) | Copy

If a guy has slept with a wide variety of different girls, he might find a "type" and get attached to a specific thing.

In my hometown there were very few black people, I had a lower-SMV black plate who I specifically found based on her race; she treated me exceptionally well and I made her an LTR.

In my current city there's a big Indian community; I have a thing for "brown" girls. A brown girl who's objectively a 5/10 can be a 7/10 in my eyes for some reason. I met one who was cute-ish and she was affectionate+wealthy so I rushed into exclusivity with her.

I also dabbled in dating an anorexic-level skinny girl. I knew it wasn't sustainable for a long time, but she was an extremely wholesome+cute virgin girl from a well-connected family. I have a idea for a business project which she would be perfect for, and she was finishing school within a few months, so I think I was attached to her because I was excited for a future business partner.

2 of these 3 cases were inherently limited-time (me moving abroad, her moving abroad) but if they weren't there's a chance they could have gone on forever.

Also "sunk costs"; a dude who's improved his SMV over a the course of 2 or 3 years might be in his comfort zone and think "I've already been with her 2 years" even if he knows he could find other girls instantly.

[–]iintrOOutroo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

I met one who was cute-ish and she was affectionate+wealthy so I rushed into exclusivity with her.

but she was an extremely wholesome+cute virgin girl from a well-connected family. I have a idea for a business project which she would be perfect for, and she was finishing school within a few months

I admire you, you opportunistic cunt.

[–]Pimpcool4206 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rich girl was the big mistake that led me to Redpill.

Wholesome girl was just bad timing. Like "I could marry this girl but we're 21 years old so that would be dumb".

[–]PepinoSF7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy

The best bang I got was from exchange student from Kenya. Warm as a fireplce and wet as a waterfall. Black american chics are low ball

[–]riggedved15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

I find most black american chics to be very trashy, just not worth my effort. I'm sure there are some amazing ones, but the ones I've met were nothing but trash.

On the other hand, while I was in university, I had a Nigerian plate. So had the body of a supermodel, carried herself really well, was cultured, had values and spoke very eloquently. I also have a couple of Canadian/Kenyan black female friends, all of them pretty cool. But American black girls, damn, I can't stand them, atleast the ones I've met. They are way too loud, and just not feminine in my opinion.

[–]Pimpcool4208 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Any Nigerians/Kenyans you meet in the west are probably from the top .01% of the richest in their society while black people in western countries aren't anyone special.

[–]boomcheese441 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nigerians/Kenyans you meet in the west are probably from the top .01% of the richest in their society

LOL not true at all.

[–]Pimpcool4202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Median incomes in most African countries are less than $3k/year. An airplane ticket to North America costs more than most Kenyan people's annual income; international student tuition fees are often $20-$50k per year.

[–]jackandjill22-3 points-2 points  (7 children) | Copy


[–]PepinoSF2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Most of them don't worth the shot

[–]Drakane1-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

ahh the racist comes out

[–]PepinoSF2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Facts have nothing to do with racism, moron. It was stated AND explained that black americans are lazy flaky asses, not black kenyans.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because white girls would never flake

[–]Drakane1-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

kay man whatever you use to justify your racism

[–]lukesterboi1 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

TIL people from Africa aren't black anymore but their distant relatives in America are still black

[–]Drakane10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

what are u talking about

[–]HurricaneHugues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So you're a sociopath finnessing for a bag? Got it.

[–]jackandjill22-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This explanation is "lol because you're basically saying scarcity mindset & you place undue value on something that you can't normally have.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

  • Scarcity mentality. They're 51% of the population but still claim a certain celebrity status in online communities("as a woman...") and male-oriented hobbies.
  • Speaking of hobbies, a lot of guys in the community argue that women are essentially interchangeable, but it is pretty nice when you meet one with a pleasant personality who also likes hiking or whatever. That can definitely make up for so-so looks.
  • Dating a pretty Instagram model would be exhausting for many of us. Some of us thrive on the feminine chaos and competition from rival males, but I think most guys want to just do our own thing and settle into a comfortable routine.
  • Men have more of a sense of loyalty/honor and sometimes keep a wife/girlfriend after improving themselves.
  • As others have said, personal taste/psychology are a factor. Lose your virginity to a black girl or older woman or whatever and that can carve a groove on your psyche forever.

[–]LukeVTruth6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Speaking of hobbies, a lot of guys in the community argue that women are essentially interchangeable, but it is pretty nice when you meet one with a pleasant personality who also likes hiking or whatever. That can definitely make up for so-so looks.

A buddy I had a conversation about this point recently and we came to the conclusion that once women reach a certain threshold of attractiveness the intangibles can actually start to make a difference. A 3 will always be a 3 no matter what, but a 6/7+ who has a personality that is better than most girls you meet can be elevated a point or two.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

A really good personality on a girl can bump her up 1 - 2 pts no problem.

[–]Kn1ght013 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well most men aren't aware of there own value as The Rational Male states. Also the cost of modern hypergamy is rather high, for example any girl can get hundreds of likes and matches online so she feels entitled to the top tier men.

[–]01741 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

What chapter is this

[–]Kn1ght00 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can't remember which volume or chapter unfortunately. All three volumes are worth reading though.

[–]spider_133724 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women date up and men date down. Thats how a relationship remains balanced easier. This isnt an exact rule but its a common trend

[–]Smerdakas7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

That happens socially. OP talks physically.

[–]zielkarz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On social hierarchy, not looks. Western guys aren't dating Ukrainian girls because they are ugly. It's

[–]_SnNNeKerz9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you're a 6/10 guy, plate/ons with 7+ and date/marry -6, if you're higher SMV than your gf the shittests are once in a blue moon, and even then she might apologize right after, it's basic hypergammy, she can't play the game if you're the best she can get.

[–]Thunderbird9310 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Its because some people cant handle being alone. Check out Nietzsche's Ubermensch. He charts a lonely path but has a mission. At least once a month I see a marriage notice on facebook from people I went to college with(christian college). People put too high a price on finding love and not enough on getting money

[–]stevecapw7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the answer I lean toward. Some people can't handle being by themselves for even a short period of time, on top of social programming of the soulmate myth they're forcefed their whole lives.

I feel the most underrated relationships for men, are friendships with other men. Boys grow up so castrated because of being told masculinity is toxic, and then don't know how to develop good friendships with other guys. Women like you for how you make them feel, men like you for who you are.

[–]showerdudes9 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Because you (and many others here) think like a girl, because you're so inexperienced. You think looks matters so much for girls because it matters so much to us. It doesn't. If a good looking guy has low self esteem and poor frame, his smv will be shit, absolute shit and he wont land any hotties at all no matter how good he looks. That's a fact that some people just refuse to accept for some reason, even though it's the truth. This is why you can see butt-ugly guys with real fucking bombshells sometimes, because the ugly dude has insane confidence and unbreakable frame.

[–]Threecompasses[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. No use being a good looking dude if you're unemployable, have low-t, autistic, and too afraid to leave your parents' basement.

Sure if you're superficially charming you might get laid but a woman with high smv -or even just ordinary- will expect to be taken out for drinks etc.

Thinking of it like that it seems inevitable that such guys would ONLY end up with fuglies or women who were really equally fucked in the head.

[–]Filmguy0009 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Eggs are more expensive than sperm. That's pretty much it. A low SMV woman will still have around the same sexual opportunities as a high SMV guy. It's the low SMV guys that don't have consistent/reliable access to sex or relationships.

[–]whosaccisthis9416 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe they were hotter before they hit the wall.

[–]AlphaBinomialDistrib54 points55 points  (18 children) | Copy

Because if you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. from my own personal point of view, make an ugly woman marry you.

A pretty woman makes her husband look small, it's often the reason for his downfall

As soon as he marries her, that's when she starts

Doing the things that will break his heart.

But if you make an ugly woman your wife, you will be happy for the rest of your life.

An ugly woman cooks the meals on time. She's always giving you piece of mind

[–]klo214515 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

For the youngsters who missed the reference.


[–]Greaterbird7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's like people don't even question an obvious rhyming scheme complete with line breaks.

[–]RevolutionaryPea716 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Ugly" is too strong. But certainly "less physically attractive". Super attractive women might as well be a different species. They've been treated like royalty for their entire life and it's simply impossible to have a meaningful relationship with them.

More average looking women are still pretty because they are women and women are pretty. They're still women and have still been treated like that for their whole lives, but it's not so extreme.

[–]Walkerstain2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Isn't attractiveness subjective? I may find a girl 7/10 but for others she's can be a 4/10.

[–]RevolutionaryPea712 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

The difference is rarely that large. There's maybe a one point difference between different men. Generally if a woman is attractive she's attractive to every man. But you always get bullshitters who say things like "Beyonce is ugly" because she's not quite their preferred type. But there's not a single man on earth who wouldn't be full mast if she was in their living room.

[–]Greaterbird7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

How about this one?

I couldn't care much what she wears or what she looks like
It all depends on what she cooks like!

[–]rygent_square2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Mulan can only fuck the captain while dressed in drag

[–]Greaterbird0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This remake is getting better all the time.

[–]Threecompasses[S] 25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

I disagree. As soon as a man marries a woman who is much much less attractive than he is, I find that she thinks she is invincible and starts playing up. Perhaps a 9 man with a 6/7 woman would be better advice.

[–]jm5112 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've seen that happen too. The fugly does the cool gf thing and the low confidence guy is flattered enough to wife her up.

After a few years, she starts believing that she could have done better and goes into shrew mode.

[–]jackandjill220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of my friends fathers said something like this.

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

You just sound insecure as fuck man.

[–]cat_magnet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Bilderbergerwcheese 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

Lots of conviction statements. Wheres the data to back up "never make a pretty women your wife". You both sound screwy in the brain, "ugly women cook meals on time" . Well what hoot hollerin funky clan showdown do we got going today boys

[–]Greaterbird9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

They're lyrics. It's a song.

[–]Non-Cookie-cutter1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There’s no data to back up almost everything on this sub and it’s unrealistic to expect it for obvious reasons (which is why people should think for themselves and not take everything blindly)

Although there have been studies that accidentally prove f basics like the 80/20 rule, hypergamy branch swinging that sort of stuff .

[–]sebbegerbert4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

RP theory tend to applie to the masses. These relation ships are not the norm. It can be hard to find an answer in TRP. The answer can be just as simple as got tired of the game and vetting beautiful women. Not to say they gave up. Sure they didn’t get the model with a heart of gold. But they get to start a family with someone they can place more trust in. Just because of the fact that they are the prize in that relationship.

[–]lord_have_merci2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

imo, average\below average looking women usually have the best personalities. same goes for guys, and money factors in as well. in general, less wealthy and\or not very good looking would "more likely" end up being someone with a better personality, more humble, more kind etc.

[–]deathhandmachiavelli4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Okay, okay.

Its time I tell you guys the truth about who gets the hottest girls.

NOT the most handsome guys, but the guys with the most BALLS (who are fairly good looking).

The most handsome guys have never had to be rejected, they haven't had to develop all of the skills and knowledge that we learn here.

The most handsome guys tend to underperform and date average to above-average girls (rather than the hottest) because their looks have allowed them to be blue pilled betas and never really understand women.

On a more practical note, THEY get approached, THEY get IOIs from lots and lots of women. The girl who takes the initiative with them who is probably only average to above average, will get into a relationship with them and eventually lock them down.

The guys who get the HOTTEST girls, generally speaking, are guys who are fairly good looking, but have a big SACK, are fearless, are not shy, and have gone through the ups and downs with females and know how they think.

I know this because I am the guy you see with the 10. Yeah, I'm boasting a little, but I am trying to drop some true knowledge.

I've seen this again and again. I have a friend who is a model, who has come out on TV commercials, and even a fitness show on a local TV station. Now he's shacking up with a girl, they are going to get married. She's a 7. He never did what I would do, approaching all the hottest girls and learning how to get with them. He would just have above average girls approach him.

[–]Threecompasses[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

So it seems to me that you can spot a truly red pill a guy e.g. Fearless, ZFG, independent, good frame etc by the state of his girlfriend.

Conversely, you can also spot a blue piller and a man who is mentally weird by same barometer.

So true red piller e.g. Mick Jagger alpha type gets 10s. Or just a guy who has his shit together gets hot women.

Mr Mediocre gets 5-8

While Mr socially awkward/unemployable /basement dweller/ autistic gets the fuglies even if he is a bit of a looker and superficially charming.

Makes sense!

[–]deathhandmachiavelli2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, great points. Having one's shit together, social IQ, and fearlessness ultimately are extremely important in the quality of woman that ultimately get.

[–]frost8172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]gustavostori2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because most 5s to 10s are full of themselves and most of the time it's just makeup also they shit test all the time and try to drag you down while the 3s respect you and accept you for who you are that's my experience.

[–]WIA20XX2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

  1. Poor self esteem.
  2. Has no vision.
  3. They have known each other forever and he had a level up.
  4. She has good girl game out of bed.
  5. She is great in bed.
  6. Religious.
  7. Some undisclosed personal fetish.
  8. They have an arrangement.

Reason 99,999,765. True Love.

[–]HurricaneHugues2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Easy pickings. Also just because a guy looks solid on the outside it doesn't mean his internal game is on point.

[–]bankalot5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Low self-esteem and severe oneitis

[–]Despacit02 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Most "ugly" women are really good at pleasing men because they have to somehow compensate for their looks. Or it's simply because they are compatible with their personalities and all the quirks that come with it. It would be shallow if men refused to date an uglier women even though they are great for each other.

[–]93nuggets1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Ohboohoolittlegirl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you just started lifting and don't have the confidence yet,you won't be able to attract and keep a 8/9/10. You probably still have a lower SMV in your head than reality actually shows.

[–]frankgold1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe the good looking guy is poor, or have little social skills? IDK...

[–]tylerpkeaton1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I believe there are 2 major reasons for this.

The first is that some guys meet a girl in high school or early college and end up marrying them. I’ve noticed that women’s bodies and looks in general start to deteriorate faster than men’s do. This often isn’t their fault and is just hormones doing their thing. Some of it is personal behaviour (drinking wine all the time, eating fast food, etc) I am 27, and there are multiple girls I know who were really good looking from 19-23 but aren’t as good looking anymore. There just aren’t as many guys who I can say that for, although they are some. In fact many guys, as was mentioned in another post, peak later in life, say around age 27-33 or even older. This means a lot of guys are locked in with women who have changed a lot and they don’t look the way they look when they first went after them. This is also the reason why many women love dating older guys who are in their early 30’s or even early 40’s, because for whatever reason men tend to get better looking, more physically fit, and more confident and mature as they get older. Not ALL men, but many men.

The second reason for this, I believe- is that many guys simply want a girl. They want sex, they want easy gratification. They don’t want to be bothered with approaching or developing a relationship with a good looking woman. Much of this is because in order to do so takes a lot of confidence and self development. Also- some good looking women can be pretty nasty. So they just stay away altogether.

[–]screenmagnet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Could he have a rare sexual fetish and he’s just happy to have a girl who is into the same thing, or at least willing to indulge his fetish?

Or they’ve been together since high school and/or weathered some sort of mutual (external) hardship together that actually brought them closer as a couple? Trust, loyalty, and a positive shared history can overcome a lack of sexual attraction for some people. And maybe he gets a little on the side, discreetly.

[–]RedPillProphet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes the short comings of a man might not be immediately obvious. Having even one strong short coming that you cannot work around can kick you out of the top 20% and make it very difficult to score a quality woman.

I had pretty serious social anxiety most of my life, combined with significantly above average looks, intelligence, money etc. But for years I completely failed with women. Drop dead gorgeous women would even initiate conversations and then move on as soon as they sense social weakness. At some point all of my close friends asked me in one way or another why I do not do well with women.

I lowered my standards a few times just to release some of the loneliness and I could see the confused looks when people would see me with the girls I was slumming it with. Nothing makes you feel more disgusted.

[–]LiteraIIyJesus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, cases will inevitably vary.

If we're strictly speaking about high-value male who is both adept at game and aware of his own value, I would point to the girl's personality and values and the male's past experience with disrespectful or high-maintenence girls.

The man could be looking for a submissive, traditional, low-maintenence girl who will seldom shit-test him, who will ultimately devote herself to him. He would rest easy knowing there is no way the girl can ever attract something better than him. She would be a nervous wreck 100% of the time as her hamster is on a 24/7 marathon against dread game, and would be driven towards perfect little wife behavior.

Now, if the man is perceivably high-value but either not adept at game or unaware of his own value, he could be consciously believing that the girl is on his level of attractiveness.

There's also a myriad of individual scenarios such as the girl being a freak in bed or him having hotter side chicks, but these would require too many assumptions on our part.

[–]universalabundance11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If her head-game makes my eyes roll to the back of my head.

I value this skill ALOT, and if you've ever had a girl with 10/10 head-game, you know what I'm talking about.

[–]Time_Animal_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're bad at judging attractiveness

[–]gbnz871 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are actually quite a few reasons. Every guy is attracted to a different type of girl. The types of girls that friends have gone for I consider to be a 3-5/10 while they go head over heels for them. I dont like the Kim Kardashian looks that a lot of girls have these days but many guys love that. On the otherhand I like pale girls and dont mind red heads while ive had friends look at them with disgust.

When going for a long term relationship values are what is important. You are probably going to be looking forever for that one 8-10/10 girl that shares your values that you can have a good long term relationship with.

Also as others have suggested some women hit the wall, some guys just fall in love with the first girl that gives them a positive response and a lot of guys (and girls) go for whatevers easy.

A LTR with a girl who has a lower SMV than yourself is easier to hold on to. Ive talked to quite a few married guys and they know this as it gives them a little bit of security as maintaining frame for a long period of time can be difficult.

[–]vreshbaby1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

N-count and character mostly

[–]Terlancster1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Probably due to our higher libidos some men are fine with a girl who has a lower SMV... also how you perceive yourself, if someone has a real SMV of 7 or so but sees himself as a 4 for example.. I would make the argument that men are also less picky than girls on looks, girls have a lot of options

[–]rpleo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why do good looking women date ugly men?

[–]MajorMid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I would never take a 3 but if im looking for a serious relationship give me a trad 5 over your average 10 any day

[–]kellykebab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've never seen a 7 dude dating a 3. Not once ever. Biggest gap I've ever seen is maybe 3 points, but it's usually 2 or less in my experience.

And the only situation where I've seen a gap of 2+ points where the girl is better looking is when the guy is incredibly famous/rich and older. Seems like people usually tend to date close to their own relative level.

Doesn't explain the improbable marriage of internet meme Bryan Silva (2) and his 7.5 "wife," but sometimes life is weird.

[–]nobody_thinks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ugly woman are a type of escapism. the guy is like fuck it, she's better than jerking off and does my laundry and I don't have to put up with shit tests, etc.

ultimately the guys who do this have some deep psychological issues. It is feminine behavior. Instead of using their masculinity to attract women, they are just using their genetics.

[–]1InformalCriticism0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There really are an endless number of reasons, and you mentioned one: kinks.

Others include:

  • Passive dread; you don't really have to try hard to keep her in line if she knows you're out of her league.

  • Necessity; she might actually provide him a lifestyle he can't achieve by himself, financially. (Source, textbook description of the guy my ex wife adulterated with, back in my BP days)

  • Another thing you mentioned was mental deficiency - there are women who are simply smarter and more manipulative than men. She might have found his weaknesses and exploited them, either by making him feel good, or by making him feel bad via abuse.

A sub-category of mental deficiency would actually be mental health issues, like prior abuse, self esteem issues, shyness, or some other cause of a lack of confidence.

At any rate, just be glad you don't have to compete - let nature take those guys off the market and do your own thing.

[–]ArnoldT10000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

scarcity; good looks don’t mean good game

[–]Cientocincuenta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe she's the first girl they could get a hold of.

Oxytocin is a hell of a drug, also. without a proper mindset, you can develop feelings before it's good for you.

[–]life0360 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sexual attraction is weird sometimes. Humans are a wildly varied lot, and not everyone gets turned on by the mainstream media's idea of what sexy is.

[–]ktkhaled19100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good looking guy and a virgin here.. What about that my dude ? I would fuck a rock if i had a chance..

[–]TheGreatFadoodler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If the wife isn’t wealthy, then idk man. Just as puzzling. Probably trapped in divorce, has too strong of morals, or staying for kids.

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

  1. men have no business judging another man's looks.
  2. women don't give a flying fuck about a man's looks. sure he needs to be presentable, but women care more about how a man makes them feel over how he looks. see coach red pill for the explanation.
  3. stop worrying about other people's business... and what they do with their time & genitals.

[–]blade_2220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well obviously they find something in them , maybe they have a thing for "whales" or maybe the whales provide the men with other resources (usually money). Who gives a shit though , they can have a relationship with a fucking racoon , why give a shit man

[–]Danterahi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They don't. I've seen plenty of ugly men with attractive wives, but not the other way around? Seriously, what are you talking about?

[–]goomerall30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So she won't cheat..

[–]zxcvb78090 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Fat ugly women have to be fun. So they are easier to deal with then attractive soulless idiots. Attractive soulless women are fun to fuck but to do anything else is almost unbearable. Some people get tired of that shit and would rather have like ten ones as opposed to 10 tens.

[–]Threecompasses[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sorry but this is crap.

I agree that super attractive women have life so easy that they develop no character but for your 5, 6,7 and 8 s this is not the case.

Plus the REALLY fugly ones know that no guy would seriously view them as anything other than fwb/ occasional fuckhole and this sends them nuts.

It's not that they CAN'T get a good looking guy; it's just that that guy is usually fucked up in some way and looking for a mommy replacement which, in the fullness of time, turns hambeast into a psycho bitter bitch as she is in a permanent state of jealousy/fear that hotter ( which given the fact she is pig ugly is virtually every other woman) is after her man.

[–]zxcvb78090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree that super attractive women have life so easy that they develop no character but for your 5, 6,7 and 8 s this is not the case.

Are you sure?

Online dating seems to create a disparity between actual SMV and perceived SMV. With that and social media these women are sought after in a rat race type of way. A 5 gets hundreds of likes etc on her profiles, do you think this doesn't impact her ego or what she thinks her options are?

It's not that they CAN'T get a good looking guy; it's just that that guy is usually fucked up in some way and looking for a mommy replacement which, in the fullness of time, turns hambeast into a psycho bitter bitch as she is in a permanent state of jealousy/fear that hotter ( which given the fact she is pig ugly is virtually every other woman) is after her man.

Just because someone is low balling doesn't mean they have mental issues. I mean I am sure there are situations where this is occurring but I don't think it accounts for the majority of these situations lol.

[–]Hot_Pink_Knob-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Clearly sexual selection isn't so black and white. Obviously we're attracted to fertile, youthful, attractive women. We know this objectively but just because that's true it doesn't mean that you won't see variances. The world is a big and complex place, there will always be exceptions. But yes generally if a guy is attractive his partner will equally be as attractive.

[–]zboo1h-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

No confidence, insecurity, probably raised in single mother home, looking for mommy to help them through life, willing to settle to avoid the fear of being alone and without mommy.

[–]maljo24-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Attractive men date women they find attractive.

[–]LightyFarron-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one know and cant really oversimplify shit

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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