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On direct vs indirect approaches, an observation.

by Andgelyo | September 08, 2019 | TheRedPill


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I’m in a relationship, but go out with my brother and good friend almost every Saturday night for the past month and a half to work and improve on my social skills (I.e. getting out of my comfort zone and approaching women, typically in NYC). I have a decent n count (~ 18/19) but definitely not slayer status like you ultra chad fucks out there. Been told I’m pretty attractive, but at 29 I definitely think my looks aren’t as good in my younger years. Was tired of getting trash tinder hoes so I decided to go out and try to bag higher tier women in real life.

Now for those of you, who do not know direct vs indirect approaches are:

Direct approach- walking straight up to a woman, introducing yourself, stating your interest, and asking for her number immediately.

Ex: Hi, what’s your name? I’m Andgelyo, and I just thought you were pretty attractive and wanted to talk to you. Wanna grab a drink sometime? What’s your number?

Indirect approach- beating around the bush, breaking the ice, getting to know her, and then asking for her number.

Ex: Hey what do you think about this music? Do you like this genre? Yeah I think it’s okay too. Are you from around the area? Me too, and I’m in a band too! I would love to check out your band sometime, what’s your number? Maybe we can hang out!

My style is definitely more direct, as I have a zero tolerance bullshit for beating around the bush, and would appreciate it if I knew right away what the answer was. Guess what? Every single time my brother and friend did indirect approaches, they yielded higher results.

I literally saw my 5’5 Korean friend get a cute Brazilian girl’s number yesterday at a local concert in NYC, just by talking about music.

My brother (who’s in grad school), did the same thing, asking a girl in the library where the star bucks was, then small chatting about her major, and then asking if she wanted to hang out.

My theory is that, you must prove to the girl you are not a fucking weirdo by showing her you are a pretty cool guy first. You can’t just walk up to her and ask for her number completely relying on your looks. If you see it from her point of view, she thinks it’s weird to just give her number to a complete stranger without even knowing him.

On the other hand, given my style, all I’ve heard from women was: “aww that’s so sweet, I’m sorry but I have a boyfriend”.

Starting my next approaches, I’m going to change my direct approaches to indirect approaches and see what happens. A bunch of other posters on here, already said that indirect works more. I’m a very direct communication kind of guy (probably because I’m so used to tinder and club/night game) so if anyone has pointers to improve small talking people let me know.

TLDR: Unless you are super model status, indirect approaches works more, because it shows you are not a weirdo.

Edit: I’m still new to cold approaching, as I’ve been a tinder hermit crab for a few years, so if anyone would like to share their experiences and advice, feel free to add

Post Information
Title On direct vs indirect approaches, an observation.
Author Andgelyo
Upvotes 32
Comments 31
Date 08 September 2019 08:23 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/252495
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/d1gdd0/on_direct_vs_indirect_approaches_an_observation/
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[–]Blackhawk247971 points72 points  (7 children) | Copy

This is a poor quality post and your conclusion is wrong.

Your brother and friend may get numbers, but what’s their conversion rate to lays? Girls give out their numbers like candy, and the only reason you’ll get more numbers indirectly approaching is because they can reject you but still have a reason to give out their number, which is easier.

If you flat out ask for a number and they want to reject you they will tell you they have a boyfriend. But bottom line: girls generally don’t like directly rejecting guys.

If your SMV is good and you’re a confident and interesting approacher it doesn’t matter if you go direct or indirect, because girls will give their number out to attractive guys - even the ones with boyfriends.

[–]Andgelyo[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

I’m appreciate the criticism, as I am still very new to approaching women. I admit, my SMV is no where near where I want it to be yet, as I am still a broke new grad paying off graduate school loans. I will continue to approach and to improve myself everyday.

[–]AllieImSorry8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

my SMV is no where near where I want it to be yet

Your SMV is wherever you want it to be. Carry yourself like a man and you'll be treated accordingly. With chicks especially, do not let the punches take you down. Roll with the punches, duck and weave.

You have the right mentality though and that's all that matters. If you believe you can achieve it then make it so. Good luck brother.

[–]Vikingcel10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your SMV is wherever you want it to be

I want it to be at 10/10. Can I shag freelance models off tinder now?

[–]AllieImSorry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Then make it so. Present yourself as a 10/10 person and you’ll be treated as such.

[–]Andgelyo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

🔥🔥🔥 I still got fire in my heart

[–]Due_Generi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Their tingles have nothing to do with how broke you are.

If you think being a broke postgrad diminishes your SMV, guess what, it does. They can smell that devaluation of your own status on you. It shows in all of your behaviors.

[–]modTheRedPike0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As a guideline, if it isn't a real duh point that you can get across quickly, try to spend at least an hour on a post, including proofing it twice. I don't think I've ever taken less that an hour and a half on any of my posts. I'll leave this for now though.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K1819 points20 points  (8 children) | Copy

There are other styles, and neither of yours incorporates any Red Pill principles.

The first is just pedestalizing. It's nice guy.

The second is just beating around the bush. There is no attraction built there.

You want to work a lot more with attitude and frame.

I'm indirect, but instead of talking about some irrelevant shit like the music or scene, I talk about her. I want to show her I'm not intimidated by her and have the social dominance.

I ask her a couple things. Tease her a little, a few things to break her balls. Show status in the dynamic.

It's all about attitude, vibe and dynamics. Just enough of the playful asshole.

You want her sort of taken aback by the daringness, but also laughing at you.

Break her down, go for the kill, polarize. All with a touch of indifference.

Amused mastery. Show her you're amused by her.

[–]SlayRevenge64 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can you share some examples if what you ask in your approach please?

[–]lugrulo2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s all about flirting. You should not pedestalize her by being super direct.

Instead, play with her and rile her up in a sexual manner. This is “indirect” - but it’s the most direct way to her emotions.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That's it. The flirting. Gotta play with them.

[–]justbronzestuff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

can you give us an example of playing?

[–]cupshadow2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Gotta love those subjective "advices" that doesn't help anything in the real world.

I talk about her.

Feeding her narcissistic ego I wonder. Maybe pedestalizing a little too much too?

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Nah man. I tease her, break her balls a little, as I said.

I'm not giving specific pussy passwords, because each guy has to find what works for them.

[–]cupshadow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If that works for you, great. But I take issue with labeling the other methods as "not RP" or "pedestalizing".

In both ways OP mentioned you already show you aren't afraid of her, you keep the frame in the conversation and state your intentions.

First thing, being direct on a cold approach is the boldest move a guy can make, no one does this, so I really don't see why that would be "pedestalizing" at all.

And I hate the term "beating around the bush" because that's not what indirect is. There is nothing wrong with choosing some topic to start a conversation and lead to what matters, you can still have a good vibe and flirt.

[–]FinallyRed7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

A direct approach doesn't have to lead to asking for her number within the next 15 seconds. You can express your interest to display some balls, chat for a bit to build some comfort, and go from there.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

You can both show her you aren't a weirdo and show sexual interest. Doing that well is what game is all about.

Being extremely direct and beating around the bush by avoiding showing sexual interest are both ways around playing the game that can work but are usually less effective.

[–]nofears2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This guy games... I was going to comment the same thing.

Going in extremely direct, or talking about random gay shit and then finally asking for a number are both cop-outs to a degree. The essence of true game is essentially talking or joking with her as a normal person would, but yet subcommunicating your sexual interest. This is what "game" is. The more effectively you can turn her on while talking about seemingly mundane topics, the better your game is.

[–]Finallyawake_3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Getting a number doesn't mean shit unless you get laid. Women game you for your time and attention. Direct approach saves you from wasting your time on women that aren't interested in hooking up with you.

[–]The_crow_from_heaven2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Op update us after you try your indirect method too!

[–]gbnz872 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Direct definetely wastes less time but if you are just saying they look attractive and get their number like you suggest isnt going to get any results imo.

You have to say they are attractive, make a statement or ask a question, make some small talk and then ask if they can join you later for something else. You need some small talk just so that they can be comfortable that you are a decent human being before they take the risk of going out to meet you.

If you are direct they let you know straight away and quite often dont engage in small talk if they arent interested. I much prefer this as ive met far too many time wasters in my life.

[–]NegativeMeeting80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have to use more indirect approach because you can't negotiate a desire.

[–]strikethrough1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

High SMV - Direct Low SMV - Indirect

[–]Fowgard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I go direct (tell her she looks interesting or whatever) but don' t go for the number right away, have a convo first. Not too experienced either though.

[–]Casanova-Quinn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your method of direct game is totally off. Asking for the number right after opening is socially uncalibrated and it’s not surprising that it mostly leads to rejections. Why would she give her number to a stranger right away? You have to have some fun and flirty conversation after opening so she can see that you’re a cool guy who’s worth dating.

[–]OmegaTres 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy

In my personal experience and observation the most effective strategy is not to approach at all. There are two steps to getting easily laid: Step one, convince them you legitimately don’t care about having sex with them. Step 2, get them to a private space alone. Both direct and indirect approaches instantly doubles the amount of work you have to do because you have no reason to approach someone at all unless you wanted to sleep with them and they know that. Create a situation where they initiate conversation with you. This really doesn’t have to be as difficult as it sounds. Instead of approaching your target, approach one of their male friends and strike up an interesting conversation while completely ignoring your target. If you carry a good frame she will eventually cut in and make a comment on the conversation, or give you a compliment on your outfit or something, where you can then shift your focus and make your move. Pretend you didn’t even notice her to start(not in a douchey way, but in a way where you are so valuable you didn’t even need to notice her.) She now feels as if she’s chasing you because she initiated this interaction. At this point you can get a number and disengage, or if possible separate her from her friends somehow and invite her to a new location (her friends should trust and like you at this point because you engaged them with interesting conversation.) Invite them home after an intermediate location, or if you must arrange a date for a later time that’s fine too, but once they’re alone at you’re house you’ve already won. Once you’re alone and at your house or hers make it easy on yourself and simply ask if you can kiss her. There’s no stress waiting for some perfect moment, and I’ve never been told no once I’ve gotten to this point. After a minute or so of making out ask if they want to go to the bedroom, and congratulations, you just got laid.

[–]basilisk_girth1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Man I won’t lie to you, this is a one ticket one-itis land. It sounds like you could wait days/weeks/months for “the perfect moment” or study her friends etc. You may fool her initially but this is born out of a lack of options. I get your point that approaching women gives them validation, but this is why it’s common knowledge to get the number and wait. To mitigate the risk of validating her when you approach you could also only approach women who give what Mystery called Approach Invitations (AMS calls them choosing signals).

Just think about it for a sec, if you were spinning 9s and 8s then you see a thick 7, do you think you would study her friends etc? Or just approach and if she turns you down it ain’t a thing anyway.

[–]OmegaTres 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

I'm talking much more short term, it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to find an "in" that isn't a direct approach. I've had sex with 3 different women this week: my regular hookup who is a 7.5 and also for the first time with two new girls, one 7.5 and one 9.

[–]Distractingyou2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think indirect approach is so much better Hotties are so self absorbed you need to break the ice first

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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