How have you handled big disagreements?

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September 6, 2019
6 upvotes

There's two disagreements that are on the horizon. All 3 kids are in public school. She's always wanted to homeschool and is telling everyone she's going to do it. She knows that I'm not ok with it. I know the answer. "Say no and leave it at that. Why do you care what she thinks?" She's also wanting to build a house. Which we could afford if she continues to work full time and we save for a few years. But those two desires are mutually exclusive. She can't homeschool and build a house. I'm planning on saying no to homeschool and if she wants to work and save the cash for building a house I'm not going to stop her from doing that.

I know what I'm going to do so I'm not asking for advice on what I should do. I'm asking for your experiences. When have you had a really big disagreement and how did that play out when you said "no"?

Examples include when to sell the house, which city to move to, which house to buy or build, where to send the kids to school, homeschool vs public vs private school, whether or not to have kids or whether or not to have another kid. Perhaps something she's passionate about but for various reasons you had to put your foot down and say no.

Edit: /u/Redpillbrigade17 hit the nail on the head. Crazy how insightful you guys are going off so little info. The issue here is strategy vs tactics. I have the vision but I'm just struggling on how to deal with the situations as they come up. I know there's arguments in the future and need to be prepared on how to deal.


Post Information
Title How have you handled big disagreements?
Author miIkisforbabies
Upvotes 6
Comments 53
Date 06 September 2019 12:17 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/252551
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/d0fvni/how_have_you_handled_big_disagreements/
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Comments

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy

When have you had a really big disagreement and how did that play out when you said "no"?

The exact way it should have. I made a decision based on all of my family's feedback including my FO, and then executed. Shit got done.

She is a woman. Whatever she wants to do she feelz in the moment. Now it's homeschool, then it's a house, next it's having another baby, so on and so on.... just make the best decision for your crew, and tell her what the plan is. If you get your FO on board, the "no" is often responded with "is it bedtime yet?"

Grow a pair.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy

She is a woman. Whatever she wants to do she feelz in the moment. Now it's homeschool, then it's a house, next it's having another baby, so on and so on....

I need to learn how to take her adhd feelz less seriously while considering her POV but still doing what is best for the crew. I know homeschooling will be bad for everyone. Especially the wife. She doesn't know how to limit her self and always over commits.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know what happens when you allow a bad decision to be made because your wife pushed you into it? Things go bad as expected, and it is your fault.

Rian said it once (paraphrasing, although I'm guessing he was too) "You're going to be held responsible anyway, might as well do it your way."

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

I need to learn how to take her adhd feelz less seriously while considering her POV

Look, alot of men here don't get this at all. You sound like one of them. There is difficulty in dissecting what is actually a "need" vs "want" from your wife. In the decision making process, you attempt to fulfill everyone's needs as best you can, wants second. MRP teaches "make a fucking decision" because a good captain does. He doesn't disregard the adhd feelz entirely, but learns through many, many, many times what the real shit that matters should change his mind. Not the shit that doesn't.

You have to be beyond the anger phase to get this - most guys don't. Anger clouds the reflection required to make sound decisions for your crew.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

I'm sure I don't get it. But I'm learning.

From what you just said I would say our needs are fully met in public school. Education, social/community, safety.

Her homeschooling is a want. I can listen to her adhd feelz but this isn't something the family needs. It will make things worse. More stress more work.

the real shit that matters should change his mind. Not the shit that doesn't.

What I hear you saying is this isn't the real shit that matters and the fact that it's mattering to me is evidence that I don't get it. I have to learn to focus on what matters and let stuff like this roll off me. While not ignoring real problems.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

I can listen to her adhd feelz but this isn't something the family needs.

Do you think there is a reason that she feelz like this? Of course there is. Do you really think it's about the homeschooling?

If you think there is more to this, you should learn how to use negative inquiry to get to the root of it:

Negative Inquiry – prompting criticism – inquire into structure of right/wrong structure in criticism, and ask for more information wrong/bad about your behavior. The critical issue can then be out in the open to find workable compromise

I don’t understand, what is it about x that is bad/wrong/you don’t like?

What am I doing specifically that’s x?

What else is wrong or what don’t you like about me doing x?

You can read more about it in WISNIFG on the sidebar.

I have to learn to focus on what matters and let stuff like this roll off me. While not ignoring real problems.

Yes, and the things that matter and the problems that matter give you knowledge into what decision to make. Sometimes, your wife isn't entirely crazy and might have a good piece of information that you don't know about. Stupid shit - like how the kids would feelz about a new house and what they need. We don't know everything, and that's where most men fail in making decisions because their own ego works against them. There is no beta in that - it is a masculine quality of leadership and direction.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Good thoughts. And thanks for the WISNIFG reminder. I'll have to go back over this and create a list of questions to be prepared to ask. I think the root of the issue is an emotion. She doesn't want to let go of her kids. She doesn't want to miss a moment etc. I imagine she will have a really hard time when they go off for college. She was crying sending the youngest to kindergarten. My emotions were joy and happiness seeing how cute he was feeling proud to go to school like the big kids. She was a wreck.

I asked the two oldest in private what they want and they both said they want to go to public school.

I'll prepare questions to get at the root of why she wants this and will approach it without bias and an open mind but I think i already know.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Bro, I want to provide you a little reality-check, not from the world of MRP, but from the actual world.

Women aren't fucking stupid.

Women can actually be right.

Women can actually be right while you're wrong.

Imagine that.

I'm not talking about your current predicament, nor do I give two flying fucks about it. But...

I have "succumbed" to my wife's preferred outcome in the past. In other words, she got her way, and I didn't.

And you know what...

She was fucking right.

I'm glad she got her way because her way was better.

She has the balls to stand up to me - and I am a pushy bastard accustomed to getting my way.

But just 'cuz I'm a man and have more testosterone and two testicles doesn't mean she's a fucking idiot whose feedback should be discounted simply because she's a woman.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

I have yet to experience that. Every time I gave in on big decisions I knew it was the fucking wrong decision and it turned out, it was the fucking wrong decision. I'm tired of letting her lead us into icebergs.

Like someone said in this thread, I'm going to be held responsible anyway so I might as well do what I think is best.

[–]wkndatbernardus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha, true that.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Answer one:

Either (1) you're always right or (2) you're wife is retarded.

Answer two:

Maybe you should reevaluate what you consider right versus wrong. Do you really, truly have a 100% track record of "right" versus your wife's "wrong" when it comes to decisions?

Or are you just highly, highly invested in "being right," which many people are?

(After all, the ego. Oyvey, the ego.)

I learned ages ago that I know very little, that I'm prone to being wrong, and that I have very few answers in the grand scheme of things.

I further learned that my fragile strong ego could handle being "wrong" in the face of my wife - or anyone else - being "right."

Reconsider your position.

Statistically speaking, the chances that you're always right and she's always wrong are pretty low.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Statistics do not apply here. I'm not talking about every goddamn decision. Of course I'm not right about everything. I'm talking about the big decisions. We've only made a handful of big decisions in the past 10 years.. And we've only disagreed on 2 or 3. And yes I've correctly predicted how things would go but I went along to try to make her happy. I've learned the hard way that letting her make these big decisions, if I know they'll make her miserable guess what, won't make her happy even though she says it's what she wants.

[–]Redpillbrigade178 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Two issues here: (1) deciding what to do and what works for you - or call it strategy. Sounds like you got that and you don’t need help with it.

And (2) tactics on how to deal with opposition and a potentially non-cooperating first Officer. The answer to that is diplomacy, charm, and flanking. Talk soft but carry a big stick. Let her vent out emotions, as long as you still get your way. Of course don’t tolerate crazy drama (unless you’re into that...). Confuse, distract, obfuscate. Do not argue. Think of you as high stakes nuclear arms dealer. Or hostage negotiator. Read books on that (eg by Chris Voss or another dude who teaches negotiation at UPenn - forgot his name).

Think of you as master salesperson who needs to show all the cool things about your solution. Over time. “No” means “not now”. Eventually she’ll willingly and happily follow your vision. That’s the end game. Your job is to slowly paint it like a canvas, and make it nice, warm and attractive so she is a happy joiner.

Have fun.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

tactics

Good insight. This is it completely.

[–]juggle4balls6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I just had to make the biggest decision of our families life last week.

Through circumstances of life, we lost everything, completely liquid assets and could move anywhere in the U.S.A. Wife wants to move, I do not.

I handled it by bringing the teenagers and wife to a family meeting. I gave each 60 seconds, without interruption to speak their mind. Why you do or don't want to move, etc. After that I laid out all the options of where we could move, pros and cons of each. Then each person did another 60 seconds - basically when the entire decion was thought through and presented, they all agreed it wasn't worth moving. I then laid out my vision for the family for the next few years. With everyone on the same page, moving towards the same vision/goal, the decision appeared to make itself. The secret is LEADING. Had the wife said no, i still want to move, I had it perfectly queued up to drop the no.

In your situation, you've got to think through the reasons you do or don't want to do something. Because it doesn't feel right, isn't enough. You can't create a vision based on feels.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the share. Means a lot.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Feelz.

Women live in a fluid reality. It’s constantly changing from one feelz to the next. They interpret and filter the world by their emotions. Have to add the words “right now” after their feelz are verbalized.

Don’t argue, don’t get discouraged, just ride the fucking wave.

“ just struggling on how to deal with the situations as they come up.”

Welcome to Marriage - ie what happened when you decided to get the State involved.

This is why MRP is red pill on hard mode. It’s not a fucking joke. Without this knowledge, men are beat into submission by their wives and give the fuck up... and then give up on life. That’s the way it is and will always be.

This is what the long game is all about: Managing their FEELZ while Gaming her day in and day out. Smashing that pussy.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Welcome to Marriage - ie what happens when you decided to get the State involved.

Damn lol. I actually looked up what the state thought and they tend to favor public school. So I have the state on my side in this case. I'm not going to mention that. I'll just say no whenever she brings it up and calmly keep going about my day. I know she will want reasons so she can argue against my reasons. I'll just have to fog and use negative assertion. Just keep repeating "I don't feel it's best" without giving much ammo/info to attack.

[–]NMMNG_10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Welcome to Marriage

"The people growing machine".

On point.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I know what I'm going to do so I'm not asking for advice on what I should do. I'm asking for your experiences. When have you had a really big disagreement and how did that play out when you said "no"?

You've already got the advice you need, so here's an example of when I said no..

Wife wanted to give up a well paid job with excellent benefits to start her own company. I didn't think she'd be cut out for it and that financially, it wouldn't make sense for us, so I said "no". No explanation, just "no". Forgot about the feelz and all that shit, so she went mental about it - "you never support me / you're killing my dreams" blah, blah, blah etc.

So, I approached it from a different direction.. I set her about the task of doing up a business plan for the business. Said I wanted to see her running her own business, that I believed she could do it etc., but that - like all new businesses - she'd need a solid business plan in order to get the finances to set it up and get it going. Even told her I'd invest in it if the financials stood up.

Support / feelz / leadership.

Off she went and did the business plan. I helped out when I was asked to, provided insight & advice where I could. When she completed it, it was a mess.. the figures didn't add up and it looked like a non-runner. She was pissed.

So, I took the figures off her and worked on them. She'd spent 3 months on them and they didn't add up. I spent half a day on them and got them to work.. the business could be a runner but in order for it to do so, it would need to be scaled up significantly in order to benefit from quantities of scale. In order to do that, it would need around half a million to set up and another half mil for the running costs in Year 1. Just to break even.

Even though it could work, she decided that it was too much for her to take on. That ended that.

I know that women are all about feelings, but they're not entirely without logical reasoning either. You can say "no" but sometimes you need to go a bit further to get the same result.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for reading the question and sharing.

I couldn't do a numbers business plan like this but I think I could ask her a lot of questions to let her feel heard and let her processes some of this out loud.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Basically you need to lead her to understanding that the answer is "no".

[–]SeamusAwl1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

I can give you insight in homeschooling as my wife has done that with my kids. There is zero financial help. Sure there are some free resources out there but those are best used in a supplemental role. And it can be expensive. We are talking $300+ for curriculum and lets not forget about field trips (it’s actually best to join a community and go as a giant group). When my wife decided (i was severely blue pilled and all but checked out of life) to home school and become a SAHM, it wrecked me financially. At first.

There are actual great advantages to it as well... if done right (not hard to do) the children are better prepared and usually have higher SAT/ACT scores than public school educated kids. Plus your kids can dig deep i to their passions and have better opportunities to explore/experience future careers. Not to mention the flexibility you have.

But i know its not for everyone.

I know the RP response is - what you say goes. However she is your first officer. She should feel safe discussing these ideas with you and allowing you to make an informed decision. Do you know why she wants to home school? Are your kids being bullied or does she honestly believe you both can educate your children better then public education can? Is her boss constantly hitting on her and she sees this as a way out from the harassment? Have you honestly looked into it on your end and made that informed decision, or did you go off your own preconceived notions (like the erroneous “wont be socialized” issue).

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

I actually let her homeschool our first born for a year. She couldn't handle it and she decided to put him in public school. She was complaining yesterday about the stress of taking the kids grocery shopping.

The reason she wants to homeschool is to be with them more. But they drive her crazy. She's always yelling at them.

It's not the education. It's not bullying. It's not anything about their needs. It's about her not wanting to let go. It's about her feelz. The oldest is thriving in public school. In football. Coach stresses the importance of good grades. Youngest just started kindergarten and she's a wreck. Told everyone on Facebook that she's going to homeschool. She already knows I'm not ok with it. I'm not going to give her reasons because it would only be criticism of her and she would just defend herself. She can't handle the kids. I have to bring order when they're wild. And I do it calmly without yelling at them like she does. They know I mean business and I don't have to yell. Having all of them in public school will give her a much needed break.

As far as socialization we have them in other activities and they see their classmates everywhere. I like the idea of them growing up in a small town knowing everyone. Homeschool wouldn't ruin them socially but it also wouldn't help.

We both have college degrees. I have a science background. I know they'd do fine educationally either homeschooled or public school.

Her reason for wanting to homeschool is to keep them in her nest. My reason for not is so she doesn't lose her mind and she won't be fighting with the kids all day. That atmosphere isn't good for the kids either. But I won't say any of this to her. It would just be offensive and she would get defensive.

[–]FlyingSexistPig2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

"I've weighed the many many factors in homeschooling our children, and right now, it's not a good idea"

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Nice. I like it.

Like a kid "why"

[–]FlyingSexistPig1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If she has more to say on the subject, other than just that she wants to homeschool them, go ahead and listen to her. But you've already framed the argument as "It's not going to happen", so she's fighting the uphill battle to change your mind. You listen to her so that she feels as though she's had a change to give you all her thoughts on the subject, even if they're factors you'd already considered. Then when she's said her peace, and she's been heard, it's easier for her to abide by your decision. After all, she gave it her best shot, she just didn't make a good enough argument.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I need to make sure she is always defending her position instead of giving her the default position while I DEER.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Thats why I asked and no you dont have to DEER your wife. And I know homeschooling isnt for everyone. Lots of parents only make it a year or two. They don’t realize the work put into it. It does get easier as they get older because they are less hands on. But having tried it and her given up. I agree you shouldnt homeschool. You need to protect your kids from the stress this will cause then by going back and forth. Especially with no good reason except a refusal to let go. College years are gonna be fun at your house.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

College years?

[–]SeamusAwl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

She cant handle them going off to public school. How is she going to handle them going off to college.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

College Tears lol

[–]PORTMANTEAU-BOT-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Collears.


Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This portmanteau was created from the phrase 'College years?' | FAQs | Feedback | Opt-out

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Wha the fuck is this

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That was some damn bot...a now-banned bot.

[–]gameoflibidos1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

These particular situations are where I pull out the big boy pants... which I don't do very often cause I usually don't have to, so she knows I mean business when I respond this way.. But if my wife suddenly was like... you know I want to homeschool the kids... my answer in stern voice... "Absolutely fucking not."

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I've given a stern no on this before and her building a house because it's too damn expensive. She gets angry and goes off while I stand confused thinking to myself what the fuck are you going to do divorce me? Good luck doing either of these as a single mom with 50% custody. I'm taking them to public school and the judge will mostly likely side with public school. What confuses me is how she feels entitled to those things instead of trying to convince me through any means, reason or being sweet and sexy or whatever. No, it's entitlement tantrums and irrational behavior.

[–]FlyingSexistPig1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You have fallen into her frame.

She wants to build a house, and suddenly you're trying to justify to her why she shouldn't. It's not that your reason isn't a good one (not being able to afford it is often the best reason), it's that you're giving her the default position, and setting yourself up to have to come up with good reasons not to do it.

This is the idea of "frame" that's so critical, and one of the hardest concepts for guys to master (women play games with it from almost before they can speak).

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good thoughts. Thanks

[–]shouldergirdle1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What is your plan for your kids education? Tell me your plan in detail. If your plan is "Homeschooling-I'm not ok with it". That's a weak plan. Of course your wife is going on about stupid education plan stuff. It's because you have no plan.

Here is my plan for my kids education.... They will go to public school. They will attend every class. They will achieve straight As, especially in math. They will never be a behavior problem for thier teachers. They will go to university. They will strive to reach their potential. As parents, we will make this happen, by reading to them, doing homework with them, getting tutors before it's needed, saving for university etc. etc. I knew the plan, wife knew the plan, kids knew the plan. We executed the plan. There was pushback from kids, wife, throughout the years, but everyone knew the fucking plan and there was real concern in the house if someone brought home a B in math. No one was surprised when they had to do extra math tutoring. Everyone knew the plan!!!

"Not ok with it" is not a plan. Your wife is stuck trying to come up with a plan. Communicate the plan with your family, and reinforce the plan in everything you do and say for the rest of your life. This is FRAME. This is how a man lives his life. When people think of you and talk about you when you are not around they will say "Milksforbabies had a real plan for his kids education." Now people are saying" I wonder where Milsforbabies is sending his kids to school. Let's ask his wife."

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like this. Thanks.

[–]Frosteecat1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I just lay out what is best for the family and why. She can tell I’m being honest and acting in our best interests. The day she doesn’t will be a bridge to cross for both of us with the very real possibility we’ll be on opposite sides—forever.

It’s fundamental to Captaincy and FO relationships. There is a standard for decisions and behaviors and it lives firmly within your frame and is clearly articulated without hysterics. The response you get is the reflection of shared values. Expect possible short term pushback & emotional breakdown but the final outcome determines whether you have chosen well and will continue.

Our latest was her telling me she’s planning on going on a cruise with her sister in a time where it makes ZERO fiscal sense. I calmly explained why it wasn’t viable. I got silence. A day later the plan changes to a beach weekend instead. Realistic compromise—the same approach taken with my teens.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

She can tell I’m being honest and acting in our best interests.

This is important. She needs to believe you have good intentions.

I calmly explained

Yeah you're in her frame. Like a good captain she listened to her first officer.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Lol. I’m not the one here looking for advice.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Shit advice

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Tell her if she wants to be an educator, there are degrees for it. And very low unemployment.

If that doesn’t work, tell her how can you trust a woman who cant make a decision to fully educate your kids?

Go big or go home.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Get a masters in education and I'll let you homeschool our kids."

[–]weakandsensitive-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

whoever cares more wins.

i'm not going to fight about shit i don't care about.

[–]miIkisforbabies[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

So you'd be like "I don't care if you homeschool or not. Go for it."

She cares about this more than me but I see it as being a disaster and harmful for the kids. It's not what they want or need. And I see it as a disaster for her. She overcommits her self, gets stressed out and has a nervous breakdown. As a captain I feel like I need to avoid the iceberg.

[–]weakandsensitive-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

too many "she" statements for me to give a fuck about.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

whoever cares more wins.

Good answer.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

miIkisforbabies, you are doing more harm than good by downvoting me and W&S.

You're just upset 'cuz I disagreed with you above.

W&S will ban you for this shit.

Normally, I'm kind of sensitive to newbie needs.. but in your case he should ban you, pussy.



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