Do men who lie to women and tell them what they want to hear generally get more sex?

Texastentialism · 2019-08-16T00:45:56+00:00

Your post seems to assume that these women know these men are lying and are actively rewarding them for it. It's like saying if an employer hires someone who lied about their credentials then employers must like liars. No, they like people with those credentials, and they believed this person when they said they had them.

As for Debate Bro, his problem isn't that he's "honest," it's that he's trying to own me with logic and reason like some pedantic nerd and that's about the least sexy thing I can imagine.

Personally I hate politics so I can't even imagine finding myself in a scenario like what you're describing, but something I did talk to guys a lot about was music and I think the same thing applies. Some guys will find out what kind of music you like and then give you a long, technical explanation about why it's bad and you should listen to Led Zeppelin instead. Turnoff. Other guys will playfully make fun of your tastes, or just say "That's not really my thing" and steer the conversation elsewhere. Which is fine and, in the case of the former, can be fun and flirty when done correctly. All of these approaches are "honest," but one is obnoxious and unsexy and that, not the honesty, is why women don't like it.

katymarx · 2019-08-16T01:27:56+00:00

Whereas I've found that men who are actually honest, they engage in logical debate with women, they don't say the things women want to hear to manipulate them, they are kind and virtuous - these men get the least sex.

Logical discourse may be honest but it's distinct from kindness, and further separate from virtue. You've just lumped a bunch of disjointed words together to describe the perfect storm autist. Why would I want to fuck a guy who won't flirt with me, which includes flattery, good natured ribbing, not getting into a serious debate when I want to let my hair down and relax...he sounds lame AF

poppy_blu · 2019-08-15T23:44:43+00:00

Are you seriously asking if flattery and catering to somebody’s ego work?

Is there any situation in life where this doesn’t work?

sadomasochrist · 2019-08-15T22:45:07+00:00

Of course. Lying always has short term advantages.

flamingoinghome · 2019-08-15T22:56:29+00:00

Oh come ON.

This question is, in short, "are women psychic"? No. Women are not psychic. The guy who says he agrees with us? We tend to think he agrees with us. Or at the very least, that he likes us a lot and doesn't want us to be upset. These are good traits. And sometimes they're true.

Also, kindness and honesty are separate (sometimes mutually exclusive!) virtues. And there is nothing "kind" (and very little that's "virtuous") about debating people all the time.

tickledpic · 2019-08-15T23:56:42+00:00

No.

Whereas I've found that men who are actually honest, they engage in logical debate with women

This is where you are making the mistake.

Logic does nothing for how attracted/turned on a women gets. Engaging in logical debate is anti-seducing.

Luckily, you don't need to evoke logic to be honest. You can be very honest and be very emotionally enticing at same time.

Why are you talking to the woman? It's very likely that the most honest answer is that you want to fuck her.

Letting her know that you want to exchange orgasms with her isn't a logical debate. But if you are smooth and seductive it's honest, emotional and effective.

The guys who can do this get way more sex then the guys who engage in long manipulative head games. Because they save a lot of time by quickly getting a women to either reciprocate or reject.

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-08-15T23:11:29+00:00

I wouldn't be morally opposed to lie to get sex.

MisterJose · 2019-08-16T04:23:05+00:00

Depends entirely on how good a liar you are, and other things.

My brother slept with over 100 women in his youth. He had zero problem treating them like shit, coming out with blatant lies about his life and job and how serious he took them. He told me about one time he went home with this girl, and when she got in the light, she was fuckin' ugly. He sent his bro in to see how ugly she was, and then they both just left having a laugh about it. Now, I immediately think, "Wait, so she doesn't know why you were leaving, you just left her?" His mind was/is indifferent to such concerns.

OTOH, I didn't fuck at all when I was young. I 'held back' more than I lied. It was a more timid and cowardly approach, if a less ethically questionable one. I think it's pretty clear, though, that saying, "Hey, I'm the guy who was concerned for the how the 'ugly chick' felt in my bother's story," is going to net me exactly zero extra blowjobs. No woman gives a shit. In fact, I'm probably still less attractive than my bother, because timid and cowardly is even less attractive than being like he was.

Nowadays, I am pretty blatantly honest, and do better. Could I do better if I were a great lair? Probably. I'd probably have other things in my life be less of a hurdle if that were the case as well.

Here's the thing: Most guys don't need to fuck tons of women, they just need to be doing better than they are. Once they get there, they're better. There's no need for them to go totally to the dark side and become super manipulative, even if that might net them a few extra scores. So, it's not worth it for them to toss their ethics and decency entirely to the wind.

[deleted] · 2019-08-15T21:59:25+00:00

Yes. Who knows why it’s a good tactic. It just is.

CainPrice · 2019-08-15T22:17:50+00:00

Do men who lie to women and tell them what they want to hear generally get more sex?

All the fucking time. If a girl doesn't tell you she's specifically looking for casual, you always say you're open to the possibility of a relationship, even when you're not.

Men who lie to women, tell women the stuff they want to hear, and just generally smile and nod through all the illogical feminist blabberings that women come out with

I don't know about pretending to be a feminist. Men do better when they act like they're above all that. Just shrug it off like it's obvious anybody with a brain is a liberal, Trump-hating, pro-woman, sex-positive person but your life is busy and you have too much shit to do to be an activist or waste time talking about boring stuff like that.

these men generally get the most sex. Women fall for these men the hardest and give these men the best sex.

I don't know if a woman who goes home with a pretend relationship prospect who's pretending he's not anti-feminist is necessarily "giving" him "the best sex". Or even necessarily falling for him. It's just a hook-up. Lots of guys, including guys who say they're open to a relationship, end up not panning out. It's not as huge of a soul-crushing deal to women as you're making it out to be.

Whereas I've found that men who are actually honest, they engage in logical debate with women, they don't say the things women want to hear to manipulate them, they are kind and virtuous - these men get the least sex.

It's really disingenuous to think of guys like this as some kind of better, superior, more enlightened man. As though not resorting to that terrible manipulative stuff and instead having a rousing intellectual logical debate with women is somehow better. I don't think any woman alive has said, "Boy. I wasn't into that guy at first, but after that rousing logical debate we had, I really understood him better and took him home right away for a blowjob to reward him for his genuineness. What a winner!"

It's confusing

It's not confusing. That's why Red Pillers, blue pillers, and even incels get it. It's why you get it right now. It took you about 45 seconds online to figure it out. Women think kind, virtuous guys who engage them in rousing logical debates are boring, unless they're hot. If it took you 60 seconds to figure that out instead of 45, maybe you're a little slow, but that's fine.

because women say they want a kind honest decent man who doesn't play games, but those men are exactly the kind of men who they fall for and end up giving their best to.

Women also say that they aren't looking for hookups, and that they never do shit like that on a first date. Same way men say they're open to the possibility of a relationship. Both sexes say what they need to say to get laid by the people they want to get laid by.

The honest decent men get the leftovers and have to pick up all the pieces from the damaged women who went for exactly the type of men they supposedly don't like!

The honest decent men don't even get the leftovers most of the time. But anyway, you're really overestimating how "damaged" women are. Having hook-ups with guys who don't end up marrying them isn't leaving women lost and crushed and broken. They're just fine. Sure, they would have liked to have been married by 25 and had a couple of kids by now, but they had fun, they're still having fun, and they didn't miss out by not marrying some average dude when they were 22. They weren't attracted to him then. They're still not attracted to him now. They wouldn't have been happy then. And if they marry him now, they still won't be happy.

So do these men get the most sex? Is this generally a good tactic to get more sex, and why?

Yes, because it's how the game works.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-08-15T23:46:30+00:00

uh yeh

petrichordium · 2019-08-15T22:45:34+00:00

So many people here need this tattooed somewhere on their bodies so they see it every single fucking day

https://xkcd.com/306/

Serious answer: there is a vast gulf, like a yawning chasm, between being a weak spined yes maam bitchboy trying to affirm his way to a crumb of pussy and being an insufferable debate team dweeb who turns every moment of life into a micro conflict... Errr “logical debate.” That gulf is where nearly all sexually successful men exist.

LeJacquelope · 2019-08-15T22:02:20+00:00

Yes, women tend to get won over by Dark Triad men. That's why we have so many Dark Triad men, they are more successful at reproducing and they also do well meme-wise as men see their success and try to be like them.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513816300010

https://graziadaily.co.uk/relationships/dating/dark-triad-attracted/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201708/confused-about-successful-jerks-get-know-the-dark-triad

simmingslytherin · 2019-08-16T00:17:43+00:00

maybe. i know my friends and i can tell when guys do that and it's the biggest turn off ever. absolutely disgusting. but hey maybe girls who are into "illogical feminist blabberings" get off on men with no opinions and no personality. with some girls i know i could totally see that! i guess it depends on the type of girl you're going for.

all this reminds me of this video i saw recently.. i think what she says there right at the beginning is true for most women: we are more attracted to the guy who's not afraid of rejection than the guy who agrees with everything we say just to be "nice"

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-08-16T00:57:47+00:00

Anyone who lies generally gets more of many things. If all it takes for a person to get something is asking for it in a different way, then they’re more likely to get it than those that are all asking for it in the same way. Convincing someone to give you something is a more successful strategy than just asking them for it. This is basically how sales are made.

So, obviously, yes, liars get more sex.

[deleted] · 2019-08-16T01:14:48+00:00

I mean if some guy is lying to my face and giving me phony compliments then no he's not getting me into bed. But I also don't want to be lectured about TRP and how bad women are. So I guess I gotta hope there's a decent guy out there somewhere in between? Or maybe I can just join a convent idk

ermacmaster · 2019-08-16T05:16:56+00:00

With some above average looks, honesty, and ability to make her laugh, sex is bound to come. Guys that constantly compliment don't get half as much, it's 2019, not the 50s.

ontherailstoday · 2019-08-16T10:28:45+00:00

> Whereas I've found that men who are actually honest, they engage in logical debate with women

Sperg alert, sperg alert. You can be authentic and honest on a date without indulging in "logical debate"

Anyhow of course lying can get results, it also sets up problems.

> The honest decent men get the leftovers

Everyone is many people's leftover or second choice or didn't even make the finals, that's just life, almost no-one is in a relationship where they are each other's mutual first best choice and even when they are the relationship isn't necessarily a good one. Get over it and cope or crawl under a rock and wither. If you're setting those sort of standards for a relationship have I got news for you... you are not the "honest" and 'decent" man you see yourself as, you are a profoundly self deceiving man who expects to be made an exception of by the universe purely because he lacks the social skills to see why "logical debate" on a date is not the natural consequence of honesty and is mostly profoundly unsexy.

reluctantly_red · 2019-08-15T22:04:14+00:00

Only from stupid women.

[deleted] · 2019-08-15T22:41:35+00:00

Yes we do. I am a master shill and have no desire to "redpill normies". This is another thing I do not understand about TRP, being rude never got me laid. When I was a 15 year old nerd I used to be edgy af, but now I fit in then ghost rather than explaining to feminists and women who date men who abuse them why they are fucking stupid.

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incelicious · 2019-08-16T00:22:50+00:00

I think so. Women in general love dudes who exhibit Dark Triad traits.

https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-Dark-Triad-Personality.pdf

[deleted] · 2019-08-16T01:13:17+00:00

Yeah. Women lead men on all the time, and it works for them.

RRBeachFG2 · 2019-08-16T01:45:57+00:00

I thought I was doing my ex a favor by promising her that i would never lie to her or about our relationship...stupid me, she didnt care nor understand. But now i understand what those blank looks were in her eyes after I would say something like that, it was her judging my naivety and silently scolding me even though she didnt know why.

[deleted] · 2019-08-16T07:00:20+00:00

Why would you need to lie? It's not a good foundation to any relationship even it it's casual

rus9384 · 2019-08-16T07:41:01+00:00

They get sex with more women. Assuming their looks are only slightly above average.

Chads don't have to lie.

_lexxxi_98 · 2019-08-18T23:23:50+00:00

"Fuck boys" nod their heads and tell you what you want to hear.

If a guy is actually interested in you he'll want to have actual conversation and put info in.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-08-15T22:32:48+00:00

This is really why loved When I Say No I Feel Guilty.

You can learn to be assertive, which gets you laid. AND you get to see dishonesty a mile away.

It's confusing because women say they want a kind honest decent man who doesn't play games, but those men are exactly the kind of men who they fall for and end up giving their best to.

Most men who can't wrap their mind around it...watch Patrice O'neal and his talk about Men Shouldn't Edit Themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ayexYHvRlk

slavicgypsygirl · 2019-08-16T00:58:17+00:00

Men who lie are totally transparent to every girl who judges people by their actions :)

blackedoutfast · 2019-08-16T18:17:01+00:00

your descriptions are a weird mix of accurate and completely wrong.

lying and telling women what they want to hear (not what they say they want to hear, but what they actually want to hear) usually does work well IF the guy is skilled at it.

but the guys who try to act like male feminists usually DON'T do very well with women. all that stuff is really just a shit-test. some women (usually unattractive) are true believers, but most normal/attractive women think it's just as dumb as everyone else and they just give superficial lip service to feminism for social cohesion.

are you sure those guys are actually having sex? a lot of male feminist type guys end up spending a lot of time around women, but they're really just trapped deep in the friendzone with no hope of ever getting laid. women may like having those guys as friends, but they see them as completely asexual.

and mentioning "engaging in logical debate" makes me think about the dudes who are socially inept and try to engage in logical debate with people who don't want to have a logical debate and in situations where it's not wanted.

the bit about being "kind and virtuous" sounds kinda like NiceGuy™ mindset: truly kind and virtuous guys wouldn't be bothered that it doesn't help them get laid because that's not the reason why they're being kind and virtuous.

It's confusing because women say

that's why you should ignore what they say and pay attention to what they do.

Title	Do men who lie to women and tell them what they want to hear generally get more sex?
Author	BumblingBeta
Upvotes	26
Comments	119
Date	August 15, 2019 9:10 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/cqw2s2/do_men_who_lie_to_women_and_tell_them_what_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-men-who-lie-to-women-and-tell-them-what-they.254430 https://theredarchive.com/post/254430