Why "Normie" Advice doesn't Work for Most of Us

This was a post I made from an old account on a sub I created which was for positively minded involuntary celibates.

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This post is an alternative to the advice giving template which I posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9l3bv6/how_advice_should_be_given_to_outsidersanalytical/

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This is how everyone should give advice to the Sexually / Romantically Unsuccessful analytical thinkers:

Why Normie Advice doesn't Work for Most of Us

I had an epiphany the other day what it is exactly that's wrong about 'normie' advice (I don't really like the word normie, so I'm just going to call it self-improvement advice herein). Guys that are sexually/romantically successful often just say things like 'be confident', 'don't overthink' because they don't really have much time to elaborate or give guys a bigger picture. Also, they tend to be naturally confident and not have to overthink things themselves , so for them this seems relatively straight forward. And sure, having good looks probably helps as well. Let's save that debate for the comments :P.

I think for a lot of us in these types of communities that are for sexually/romantically unsuccessful guys and girls, we've developed a poor online reputation and this definitely has not been helped by self-described 'incel' and 'nice guy' type communities. We're also seen as hating advice givers but what a lot of sexually/romantically successful guys don't realise is how they come across as condescending or unhelpful. And with my own experience as a virgin, I think I can see why this is.

I think the first problem is that we get little nuggets of standalone information and think that's the main or only thing we've got to do, which is not true. It's when we do everything together that it helps. For example saying to someone "just be yourself" by itself probably doesn't work because we've got a guy with no strong sense of identity, who might have autism or some social skills deficit that cause him to take things literally ... generally just a guy that hasn't really "found himself" yet in order to "be himself". In context this advice makes better sense if we think of a bunch of things you're typical socially anxious/introverted/basement dweller kind of guy might need to do (not saying this is all FAs). We might suggest to someone first how they could build a strong sense of identity by taking some of the following things on board:

*immerse yourself in 3 hobbies you enjoy

*choose some exercise routines

*self-groom ritualistically

*don't blame yourself for failures; praise yourself for trying

*talk to many people

*build some career aspirations

*consider living arrangements

*do some introspection

Once this advice has been explained, it could go some way to helping some of us (myself included) move in the direction we want. A sexually/romantically successful guy could now add the following gem to the list:

*be proud and confident of the person you want to be - the very best, most optimal version of yourself - and once you have achieved that state be proud and confident of who you are

Notice that this advice is an amalgamation of typical cliches most of us (myself included) absolutely hate rolled into one: the advice reads as *be confident, *be yourself. And yet, somehow it's more acceptable like this: because I've put everything into context we can move towards understanding that advice better.

Of course, we're not all the same and these tips don't work for all of us, that's why it's important not to condescend guys and assume we don't exercise, for example. Or for some of us these things might not be possible - my own financial circumstances don't permit me to leave my parents, for example. So if I was a sexually/romantically successful guy and someone came to me for advice, I might ask them first about their living arrangements or if they had 'considered' their living arrangements. That's why you will notice I try to be softly spoken and use tactical word choices because it's extremely important to be aware of a guy's circumstances before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunately a lot of guys in these communities have become very sceptical/cynical about advice from people with experience and while it's understandable I feel it's also regrettable.

That's not all I have to say either: the above advice could still be considered insufficient. That's because it lacks a very important psychological technique successful people use which is called 'chunking'. Chunking, if you don't know already is breaking larger tasks down into small chunks. Not only does this make large, seemingly unobtainable goals seem more manageable, it actually allows us to be clear and specific of what it is precisely we need to achieve.

So let's go through the list I just made, critique it and see how it looks better through 'chunking'.

Immerse yourself in 3 hobbies you enjoy

So 3 hobbies could be anything from minecraft to finding a cure for bone cancer. Some hobbies will seem more productive to women or society, some hobbies will lead to better inner balance. I'm not here to judge guys that just want to play video games, I enjoy them myself in fact. So if I chunk this information, it's more an example of how the advice could be chunked rather than how the advice should be chunked.

A couple of years ago, when I chose to do this, I wanted something that would not just be enjoyable for me but would have lots of carry over to other aspects of my life ('hitting two birds with one stone') and would enable me to build up what I considered to be three main core virtues.

These were - professionalism - authenticity - intellectuality - physicality

So for professionalism, I chose to do a hobby that would improve my career prospects in some way. If I had wanted to be a successful novelist for example, I might choose to engage in creative writing classes, or reading works of literature as one of my three main hobbies.

For authenticity, I decided it was just enough to do my three main hobbies. I felt I was becoming a more authentic and well-rounded human being just by engaging in things I loved and talking to people who engaged in the things I loved as well. Funnily enough, immersing myself in these patterns was a way of taking my mind of other things (like my absence of sexual or romantic success). Some guys in the incel community condescendingly describe this as 'coping'. Well, a lot of us singles and virgin guys and girls actually need to find a way to 'cope' with our personal issues stemming from lack of self-esteem and emotional intimacy. So for me, I'm really glad I chose to go this route, even if it's just 'coping' and it hasn't landed me the girl of my dreams just yet (although it's funny how 'coping' seems to make people be perceived as more attractive on the whole).

For intellectuality, I chose politics/philosophy. It's kind of an extracurricular activity for me but I love reading blogs, articles and books based on political and philosophical discussion. If you had chosen the creative writing aspect and argue this was enough to cover you on intellectual grounds as well. I wouldn't argue: what you choose to do for yourself is good enough. One of the problems I see with many advice givers is that they say "you should do this and if not, you're failing/making excuses". It's a harsh perspective and doesn't always help guys, especially if they're suffering from chronic/crippling depression which if you are, just getting out of bed is a victory so good for you.

Physicality - for me I like to lift weights, go running and practice mixed martial arts. However, there's not enough time in the week, let alone the day so again, it's crucial to prioritise. For me I went with the 'kill two birds with one stone' philosophy (or three birds in this case). I chose MMA because I knew it would improve my cardio (running) as well as anaerobic strength (weight lifting) with the added bonus of being extremely fun and self-defense skills. MMAs not for everyone though. There's a lot of ego crushing, especially if you choose to spar and the routines can be extremely challenging physically so if you choose this option, you might want to make sure you're relatively athletic first. Alternatively, you could just go rowing or something that's easy to get into.

Choose some Exercise Routines

So, my problem with this is that people hear exercise and think just one type of activity is sufficient. Don't get me wrong, one type of activity is better than doing nothing but in my opinion it's important to build up different types of strength. These include:

*aerobic (e.g. running, rowing, mountain climbing, cycling, etc.) *anaerobic - explosive (e.g. sprinting, plyometrics, olympic weightlifting or dynamic effort powerlifting) * anaerobic - strength/endurance (e.g. resistance training, bodybuilding, gymnasium, calisthenics, maximum effort powerlifting) *flexibility (e.g. yoga, ballet, gymnastics)

Don't get me wrong here - there's lots of crossover (e.g. dynamic balance yoga will benefit flexibility but also work strength/endurance AND cardio) but you get my meaning. The point is not to get into ALL of these straight away but just to be aware different types of exercise have different benefits and work differently for different body types. Maybe you want to bulk up, maybe you just want to get fit.

Try one or two out and pick your poison. There's obviously great opportunities for socialising and meeting women here. Lots of girls do yoga for example, although personally I never felt comfortable approaching women after I'd just been with hot sweaty women in tight spandex. Other guys are smooth/attractive and don't mind hitting on girls at yoga classes or at the gym.

Self-Groom Ritualistically

Notice I didn't say 'just take a shower'. I personally think this is obvious and insulting advice. Having said that if you are autistic or have asperger's note (and a lot of guys in this community are) it's actually quite common for guys with this condition to skip showers. I think part of this might be hyper-sensitivity to the physical sensations. Part of it are the emotional issues and depression a lot of guys with asperger's have. It can be hard enough to get out of bed some days let alone take a shower.

Whatever, it's obvious that bad BO and greasy hair does not make a positive social impression. What might not be obvious is that some girls get really icked out by minor things like a spot of dirt under the nails or a guy that didn't do a decent job of shaving. We don't all have the time to indulge in aromatherapy ayurvedic medicine or whatever but it can be a destressing, emotionally soothing experience to take your mind of things (such as unwanted singledom/virginity) and unwind:

• facial scrub to help clear the skin of stubborn dirt or acne
• careful beard trim (if you like your beard/shadow) or shave with good quality blade followed by aftershave (personally I find the sting refreshing)
• clay face mask really works
• panoxyl gel is great for acne but don't use too much of that stuff or use it on sensitive areas like around the nose or the neck (that stuff burns skin dry) ... also make sure to wait a while before you put clothes on or lay down on bed (it bleaches fabrics)
• a bath can be a lot more soothing than a shower
• trim the nails, scrub the nails and file them
• trim body hair - pluck or wax back hair
• clean the feet as well (women hate odour of any kind)

Don't blame yourself for failures; praise yourself for trying

So let's say you missed a rep at the gym today. Well that's good - you're trying! Or let's say a woman would not give you her number. Again, excellent - many guys don't even have the courage to approach a woman. It's the same thing with meditation: if you catch your mind wandering you aren't supposed to reprimand yourself but rather praise yourself for noticing this happening. In fact, that's when true meditation supposedly begins.

This fact isn't really something to chunk or break down so much as something to remember but if you want more details, positive psychology is a discipline which has them. Some people say it's pseudo-science but personally, although I haven't really read much into it, I like it. It breaks down - literally chunks (although I don't know if this is intentional) - self-esteem and confidence related advice down, which makes it much easier for analytical guys - such as the ones that frequent communities like this one - to understand. Obviously with any kind of self-improvement discipline, it's not wise to spend more time researching positive psychology than it is putting the principles to practice. But why not give it a try? And if you like it, let me know about it because it's not a subject area I'm as familiar with as I'd like to be.

Talk to many people

In the comments section of a post someone made recently, a lot of guys shot me down when I suggested an opener I like to use for approaching women:

"Hi, I just noticed you right now and this may seem out of the blue but I wanted to come over to meet you"

This is understandable. A lot of guys feel that they are 'socially disabled' or physically unattractive and that they will get labelled a creep or maybe even arrested and put in prison. Ok, fine. I wasn't really bitter that guys don't like my suggestion more just a little bit sorry for the guys that don't feel they have the social confidence or feel they are unable to approach a girl they like. Maybe approaching women or people in general is not something most guys want to do but if it is this is a seemingly daunting task that can be chunked just like everything else.

The obvious thing is to start off small - e.g. smile at cashiers and customer service people and ask them how their day is going; ask people for directions, the time, etc. - meet and talk to people in places where it's 'socially appropriate to talk to them - not bars specifically but book clubs , coffee socials, language classes - and then maybe start to build up your confidence - e.g. say hi, how's your day going? - to random people on the street. If your confidence is getting high, you might even feel like complimenting a women (gasp!) e.g. tell her that you like her scarf or may even that you think she is attractive - and then walk (not running for the hills!) away casually and smiling - "have a nice day!".

When you're ready to strike up a conversation with a woman you just met, there's a lot of resources on the net that have personally helped me do this and no, it's not PUA/canned material type stuff. Just simple, friendly questions that easily engage women in conversation without having to resort to "how's the weather" type conversation. In other words, small talk but not bland talk.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/amanda-berglove/2014/02/62-questions-to-ask-on-the-first-date/

Even if I didn't necessarily get laid or whatever or even if I didn't get a date from every single interaction, I was at least able to keep a conversation going and add value to a woman's day. These questions do help and it means you can relax your mental focus from "OMG what do I say" to just thinking about staying calm, not overanalysing things, reading the woman's signals, thinking about your own body language and presentation and most importantly, BREATHING! I've find chewing gum helps keep me relaxed and steady.

Build some career aspirations

In a way, this has already been covered because even things like immersing yourself in 3 hobbies you enjoy could help with your career aspirations. Even being a gaming nerd could land some people a job in the gaming industry. Or maybe you know from the things you tried that you hated what not to do for a profession. Maybe you got wet when you were rowing and now you hate it ... well now you know not to waste your time with becoming a rowing instructor! I also recommended a fitness regiment and self-grooming. Well, a sharp, attractive appearance and a strong radiant energy is something employers like to see.I said 'don't blame yourself for failures; praise yourself for trying', a positive mindset which helps in the career hunt. All of this stuff helps.

Either way, notice I didn't say "get a job". That's because just like with "get a girlfriend", I actually do understand there are barriers to overcome with these kinds of things and that's something a lot of so-called dating 'gurus' and 'experts' don't really get, especially if they accomplished these things with ease. Getting a 9-5 at Burger King because your parents won't shut up may not be the wisest long-term career move and for guys on social security, there's a catch-22 if they have bills to pay and they need a job that pays more (not less) than what they currently check in. But everyone can still work on their career aspirations. Just thinking about what kind of job you want to begin with - specifically what job - what your route is to go about it, seeing a career advisor, etc. These are things that can help.

consider living arrangements

Just like with "get a job", notice I didn't say "get your own place". Again, it's something which certain requirements need to be met first. I honestly think that three of the hardest things to accomplish in this world are "get a job", "get a girlfriend" and "get your own place". But everyone can still be taking steps towards this goal: with career advice, financial advice and searching the property market for appropriate accomodation, these can all be beneficial in some way or another. Something a lot of guys don't guys do is think about what they want. I mean we all know what we want, e.g. "a hot girlfriend", "a big mansion", etc. but we don't really go all the way to specify.

There's an interview with a retired bodybuilder - I can't find the article now unfortunately - but in the interview, one of the questions is "how do you achieve success". Well, this guy replies along the same lines as me that a lot of guys know what they want, e.g. "a really nice car" but they're way too vague: they don't think about what exactly it is they want - e.g. a lamborghini or a ferrari. It's the same with living arrangements - what kind of house/flat/appartment; where; what price budget, etc. When you know these details it's easier to think of an action plan geared towards getting what you want.

do some introspection

So this one is a little vague just like this. To give some examples of what we could do include pen and paper - writing down our main goals, using psychological chunking techniques as previously mentioned; prioritising things; asking ourselves what our strengths and weaknesses are; being very specific and brutally (painfully!) honest with ourselves; asking ourselves what the steps are towards achieving our goals (again - specifics!); journaling our progress (everything - failures and success); asking what our greatest fears are.

Meditation is something that's very effective for introspection - just focussing on our thoughts (whether present oriented or future oriented - e.g. goals, ambitions, plans, etc.), our breathing and posture while sitting up right and not doing anything else. Something that's very true is that we can't meditate effectively when our mind is bogged down with fears and anxieties. What's also true though is that we can 'postpone' these fears and anxieties - e.g. through writing these things down. So a good step towards introspection would be spending 20 minutes a day writing down these things as mentioned above and then meditating.

I know not a lot of people here are not keen for advice from anyone, let alone someone who is in the same boat as them. However maybe there is something you can take from me. I want these communities for single people to be the kind of place where people support each other. Sometimes venting frustrations can be helpful, especially given the truth that there are indeed some toxic things about the dating world which need to be mentioned. However just dwelling on this is not enough and we definitely do need to consider self-improvement as well. I hope people can find something useful in what I've said. I hope 'advice givers' can take a leaf from my book as well and try to sound less simplistic/condescending in what they say. I also hope that people reading this will find some of the things they want in their lives: romantically/sexually/financially/friendship wise. Finally, I do hope, somewhat selfishly, that the state of these communities will improve from dwelling in negativity to helpful encouragement and support.