I don't know if anyone has heard of Israeli Kibbutz but essentially they're jewish collectivist communities, often agrarian, who seek to establish a utopian state based around total equality of all members. Some are religious, some aren't but they all seem focused on this notion that all members of the kibbutz ought to be treated as equals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz
Why do I bring this up? Because they provide the perfect (well best we're going to get) experiment to study the roles of biology/socialization in creating gender roles.
Among the edicts they laid out men and women would share economic work, leadership, and child rearing (which would mostly be done communally, time with the parents only was limited) this would free women from the burden of domestic slavery and allow them to be liberated from the Patriarchy. Children would in effect be communal property not being cared for by mom or directly reliant on dads paycheck so that would totally shred any traditional constraints on gender equality.
And remember these are largely isolated and small communities established deliberately to remove themselves from society and made up solely of people who are entirely (sometimes fanatically) onboard with this idea.
So what happened?
Well within a generation they had a sort of reverse women's lib movement with women demanding their rights to be at home with their kids performing domestic roles. When it came to work they gravitated to education, childcare, and the service sector in general while the next generation of men came to dominate in production and government.
Interestingly, women born on kibbutzim were much less reluctant to perform traditional female roles. Eventually most women gravitated towards the service sector. The second generation of women who were born on the kibbutz eventually got rid of the children's houses and the Societies of Children. Most found that although they had a positive experience growing up in the children's house, wanted their own children at home with them.[23]
The documentary 'Full Circle' summarizes the change in the women's view of equality on the kibbutz. The original Utopian goal of the founders was complete gender equality. Children lived in the children's houses. Freed from domestic duties, women participated in the industrial, agricultural and economic sectors alongside men. However, in the 1960s, while the rest of the Western world demanded equality of the sexes and embraced feminism, the second generation of kibbutz born women began to return to more traditional gender roles. They rejected the ideal achieved by their grandparents and returned to domestic duties such as cooking, cleaning and taking care of children. Today, most women do not participate in the economic and industrial sectors of the kibbutz. They even embraced traditional marriage.
How did this happen? They certainly weren't socialized to act this way. Quite the opposite. They weren't influenced by the outside very much due to deliberate isolation and being a uniform population. Where did this come from?
Is patriarchy so appealing to women that even the slightest bit peaking over the walls is enough to lure them back in to domestic slavery?
Remember this wasn't forced on anyone. In fact the elders desperately fought against this trend. And it wasn't introduced by anyone. It sprung up naturally that men would dominate outside the home in competitive positions with heirarchies while women prefer to be with their children, at home, or in less competitive more nurturing positions.
So people who believe that gender roles are entirely due to socialization, what gives?
And can you provide examples of isolated communities sporadically adopting no gender roles at all or reversed ones?
[–]utigers 12 points12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 15 points16 points17 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 6 points6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ultrablue19732 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 0 points0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]effortlessgrace2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Reed_49830 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 6 points6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 5 points5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha3 points4 points5 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 2 points2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]c_in_macn3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaphneDKKing of LBFM0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 20 points20 points20 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 10 points11 points12 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 8 points8 points8 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]RareBlur1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]RareBlur1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels7 points8 points9 points (42 children) | Copy Link
[–]jonascf2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]jonascf2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lilchaoticneutralZeta Male/TrillPill1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]7deTrebolesLikes casual sex but not misogyny0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaphneDKKing of LBFM0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 6 points6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 8 points9 points10 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 4 points4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]utigers 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YaBoiTibzzenjoying the blueper reels9 points10 points11 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 10 points10 points10 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community4 points5 points6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community4 points5 points6 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 1 points1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheSandbergPrincipleMuh Soggy Knees2 points3 points4 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheSandbergPrincipleMuh Soggy Knees0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 2 points2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TheSandbergPrincipleMuh Soggy Knees2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 2 points2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]voxvir 1 points1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points | Copy Link
[–]InterversityPurple Pill, Blue Tribe0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]caesarfecitPurple Pill Man3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ProbablyBelievesIt4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]OfSpock4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wub12341 point2 points3 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 3 points4 points5 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]wub12341 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 6 points7 points8 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]wub12340 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]wub12340 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wub12341 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wub12340 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points | Copy Link
[–]joseremarqueLSD+MDMA3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]InterversityPurple Pill, Blue Tribe2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AutoModeratorBiased against humans[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thebassoonist06Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]thebassoonist06Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]nomdplumeFormer Alpha0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]thebassoonist06Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]thebassoonist06Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]despisedlove2Reality Pill Tradcon RP0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wombatinaburrowfeminist marsupial-1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]wombatinaburrowfeminist marsupial-1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link