Is it possible that the majority of the men who swallow the Red Pill were never 'marriage material' to begin with?

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-18T05:34:13+00:00

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tears open package eager for new fleshlight

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GoldPisseR · 2016-01-18T08:23:22+00:00

'Marriage material' isn't a compliment in this day and age

Ghost_Hound · 2016-01-18T10:30:40+00:00

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that I wouldn't go that far and that marriage really is a risky prospect and a raw deal. Maybe it's just the circles I run in but I and many of my performer-type friends have slept with married women who were bored and needed to "spice up their lives." Sometimes we knew, most often we didn't until after.

People are profoundly impacted by their own experiences. Even before finding the redpill, manosphere, whatever, I had a huge distrust of the idea of marriage from these experiences and the idea of fathering children from the fact that it is too expensive a prospect to consider given my lifestyle.

For my own part, I really don't think I'm marriage material. I'm focused on my hobbies, way too minimalistic and selfish to really give a fuck about producing a family and way too doubtful that I'll find some beautiful, brilliant and groovy art-chick who can ride off into the minimalist, fringes of society sunset with me and stay for the long term without being seduced away from that lifestyle by promises of, you know, heat in the winter (I exaggerate but you get my drift.)

A lot of red pill dudes who are loud on that subreddit probably aren't marriage material both given the state of the world and the gender strife today and because they aren't really people who can stop and trust. The trust aspect is by far the most important. I don't necessarily blame them since, mathematically speaking, the mythical CHAD is always out there to steal your bitch on some level. I know because I've been him and I know because, ages ago, he's taken a girlfriend of mine in the past.

It's very easy to come to view it as some dark, circle-of-life process that's best handled with strategy and cold, calculating paranoia. This does not for good marriages make. I fully grant that.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T21:17:33+00:00

I've seen many many great men get divorced because their wives simply got bored.. Rich men, poor men, educated men, mildly retarded men, religious men, non religious men, nice men, and assholes..

What kind of man makes good marriage material for these entitled little princess's??

RareBlur · 2016-01-18T06:02:59+00:00

I think there is a correlation to men in TRP and people who exhibit narssasidtic personally disorders. People who have to get validation from others to even just be able to function.

I think they crave validation from women but at the same time feel like they areally shams so becoming close in an intimate non-sexual way is terrifying. So it is frowned on, "bad things happen when a man married so who wants it anyways" they crave validation from women the most but they will take it from men too. So many elaborate "feild reports" with so much detail they read like fan fiction.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T20:24:06+00:00

Yes.

StabbyPants · 2016-01-18T22:35:24+00:00

probably not. they're BB material, but not particularly good at being sexy. hell, a lot of them make great fathers, but they were raised on a strategy of appeasing women and showcasing their niceness, and that isn't sexy

whosewineisthis · 2016-01-20T01:37:02+00:00

I see the face of the movement as a death throe of traditional (or antiquated?) masculinity.

I find many masculine men who are good with women to naturally think this way, however, though it is not as hardcore, deluded, and hateful as the RP itself tends to be. I think most of the outrage comes from emasculated losers who find themselves at a loss when examining their stake in life.

The thing is with the Red Pill is that it doesn't try to hide any of its collective "feelings." It's very raw and quite violent. It's scary. People don't like to think about it.

I've spent time living with women, and I'm glad I did so. From the women who have a lot of guy friends, I appreciate their honesty in not trying to hide anything about how women are. Feminine women with female friends, I find, try to paint women in purely positive light. I don't think they judge women as a whole as my female friends with mostly male friends do.

To quote some of them: "Girls are grimy and sneaky." "I hate it when they subtly try to insult you." "Girls lie. All girls lie." "I feel bad for guys who get shit on for being guys/don't know what women are really like. Girls are really just as bad."

And some of my favorite gems: Ex GF: "Don't tell me to chill out!" 3 weeks later when I bring up an issue, "Relax." "Well, guys objectify women so we can too." Fair enough. "How dare you give me an ultimatum!" I jokingly said I'll get out of bed if she'd give me a cigarette. I'd lent her entire packs.

SMH

Don't get me wrong, though. Not everything is peachy in my opinion on guys, either. This just isn't the sub for that. I don't think there is one...

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-18T05:19:04+00:00

Disagree.

It's the wives of Pre-TRP men who are not marriage material. The stereotypical preRP marriage consists of the husband being overtly generous, kind, good dad, but doesn't stand up for himself, lets himself be a doormat, and doesn't ignite sexual lust in his wife.

The problem with that situation though is that, as a result of the man being a pushover, he attracted a bossy, bitchy, entitled woman for a wife.

lbspredh · 2016-01-18T14:13:56+00:00

Nah, it's usually women who liked them when they were nice and obliging but after a while that gets boring so they want out but they don't because that's harsh then grow to resent the husband and then when it's too much to bear they will feel they're owed a lot in the divorce for putting with the dullard

wtknight · 2016-01-18T14:12:30+00:00

Yes, Red Pillers tend to have a combination of a "sex is a need" and "my way is logical and your way is just feels" attitude that would likely make marriage for them very difficult unless they meet the rare woman who enjoys a very submissive lifestyle. In a marriage your spouse has to be almost like your best friend for it to work out. You have to be able to respect your spouse like you respect your best friend, as an equal, and if you just get married because you're only "in love" with the person but don't have that respect to go along with it, it's not going to work out. As TRP seems to lack this respect for women even though many claim that they could love the right unicorn woman if she comes along, I think most TRP marriages would be doomed for failure if they occurred.

littleprivateplaces · 2016-01-18T14:31:41+00:00

I think you're right. We have a bunch of people who just cannot be married, given the current legal regime and cultural expectations. The problem is, they need somewhere to go. That's why I think you'll see the rise of the red pill mediums.

I think of the red pill like job training for people whose job was moving over seas or was automated.

mrcs84usn · 2016-01-18T11:49:45+00:00

it takes a certain type of personality to hang around a community that is commonly thought of as a hate-group.

Apparently having unpopular, and sometimes offensive opinions makes it a hate group. Beyond that, it does take a certain type of personality to want to get an unfiltered male perspective of how to navigate the SMP. There comes a time when men want to actually get results. Being PC about it may not always fit into the equation.

Horror stories of men who were 'divorce-raped' are not uncommon in the sub

You don't have to be a RPer in order to find a myriad of divorce rape stories. I've met my fair share of individuals that don't delve into social politics who refuse to get married [again]. TRP doesn't hold all the cards when it comes to knowing how shitty divorce can be.

Many people are able to function in a married relationship without consciously educating themselves on the subtle dynamics of male-female relationships.

With a 50% divorce rate, there are many who AREN'T as well. Most people don't exactly like the idea of their happiness being based on a coin flip. Men who visit TRP are trying to stack the odds more in their favor, whether it be to stay together, or to arm yourself as well as you can in the event of a divorce.

Putting divorce laws aside, do you think there is a correlation between the ability to relate to TRP philosophy and an inability to live in a healthy marriage?

Not really. Married RP is pretty congruent with traditional values. Back when they were the norm, couples stayed together much longer. That why you see couples in their 60s+ that are still married.

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T04:37:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Transmigratory · 2016-01-18T15:48:20+00:00

Define marriage material, please.

midnightvulpine · 2016-01-18T11:50:34+00:00

Define 'marriage material'. That's a pretty archaic term, which is pretty nebulous and puts the onus of making a marriage work on one person. Which is not even the point of marriage. Takes two to tango and if both sides of the equation aren't balanced, it won't work. Thing is, not every marriage is the same and so what 'marriage material' really is shifts from one couple to the next who stay together a long time.

So trying to pin down of TRP folk are that is kind of pointless, unless you go by dull, bog standard definitions. Which, I think, simplify something that is appropriately complex.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T15:56:32+00:00

Not really. I think plenty of men are marriage material. I think what many on TRP desire to be is Alpha material which many will never be.

insurrecto · 2016-01-18T06:43:57+00:00

it takes a certain type of personality to hang around a community that is commonly thought of as a hate-group.

I don't give a fuck what people think about my sexual strategy. I'm not seeking anyone's approval.

TRP philosophy strongly dissuades men from getting married given the state of the legal system.

This isn't unique to TRP. Many men who have never heard of TRP are reluctant to get married.

Minimizing risk and maximizing reward is just human nature.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T10:12:11+00:00

how could you get divorced-raped if you have nothing to offer in the first place. what a fantasy. and if you were indeed divorced-raped, you were never sane enough in your choice of who to settle down with. these are men who are simply not qualified or prudent for the institution of marriage, choosing the self-pity 'victim' route by way of cult membership ( with basis in pseudoscience escapism), to cope. it doesn't get anymore insane than that.

nomdplume · 2016-01-18T12:58:14+00:00

Agreed. I listen to half of them talk and can't ever imagine them functioning in my circle of friends, let alone hanging out with a woman one on one.

user5577 · 2016-01-18T12:51:00+00:00

eh if I proposed to my gf she would probably say yes, but that would be incredibly stupid of me at this time.

Wumpus1 · 2016-01-18T17:26:14+00:00

I think there are a couple of things going on here that dictate which sorts of men are "marriage material" and which are not.

What's happened is that women and the culture have significantly "raised the bar" on which men are considered "marriage material". Women expect much, much more from potential husbands in the way of physical appearance, compatibility, earning potential, and other things. The bar has been really raised for men with regard to looks, appearance, sexiness, etc. Women are demanding better and better looking men. Women are demanding that men bring more and more to the marriage table. And fewer and fewer men are able to bring that.

The other thing that's happened is the quality of men has declined, at least as far as marriage is concerned. Fewer men have what it takes to be successfully married, which today includes decent Game. They also need to be excellent earners and better than average looking. Most lack the temperament to be married, which requires a combination of endless patience and a low tolerance for bullshit (yeah, I know), and a refusal to pedestalize. And finally, a growing number of men just don't want to be married at all.

You can argue about how much of one and how much of the other, but both of those things are going on.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T06:11:05+00:00

RP men are great marriage material. We just don't want to get married.

[deleted] · 2016-01-19T01:13:57+00:00

can vouch for myself that at least one guy in TRP is marriage material. but very jaded by now.

Da_Acolyte · 2016-01-19T05:33:24+00:00

I think it takes pretty uncommon traits to get married, stay married in this day in age and be completely fulfilled. Marriage isn't for everyone, people just can't accept that.

hedonism_bot_69 · 2016-01-23T02:04:30+00:00

50 percent of marriages end in divorce

Many people are able to function in a married relationship

Pick one

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-01-18T07:55:01+00:00

It is clear that The Red Pill is a self-selecting group - whether men are attracted to it because they are unhappy, lacking direction or a combination of the two, it takes a certain type of personality to hang around a community that is commonly thought of as a hate-group.

Indeed. A cool type.

TRP philosophy strongly dissuades men from getting married given the state of the legal system. Horror stories of men who were 'divorce-raped' are not uncommon in the sub. In fact, a large percentage of the highly respected contributors to TRP are themselves divorced, some multiple times.

What's the exact percentage? I'll accept your data in bar graph or scatterplot form.

Many people are able to function in a married relationship (read: they aren't constantly on the brink of divorce) without consciously educating themselves on the subtle dynamics of male-female relationships. Putting divorce laws aside, do you think there is a correlation between the ability to relate to TRP philosophy and an inability to live in a healthy marriage?

Sure there is. The less able modern women are to live in a healthy marriage, the faster TRP philosophy spreads among men.

Do you think that these men in TRP are divorced because of the character trait that drew them to the subreddit in the first place?

Sure. I mean, if a refusal to put up with women's shit any longer is a character trait.

RoseSGS · 2016-01-18T13:06:12+00:00

There's no evidence indicating an ability to empathise with another actually makes one alike another. E.g. I can empathise with Hitler. He seeked power, and did so quite cleverly, using the Jews as a scrapegoat and thus concreting his power. Do I agree with his methods? Not necessarily. One can easily relate to TRP philosophy without actually living it, and can therefore live in a healthy marriage.

HalfysReddit · 2016-01-18T14:50:01+00:00

it takes a certain type of personality to hang around a community that is commonly thought of as a hate-group.

Well I was involved in TRP back in the day before it was so angry/whiny, but I was drawn there because I was in a college setting (prime time to "sow ones wild oats") but wasn't getting the results I wanted. Other guys were. I didn't want to just emulate them, but I wanted to know why they were enjoying success that I wasn't. So I read everything I could, which ended up including TRP. I defend TRP today (even if I disagree with half the shit that's said on there) because there is information to be found there that isn't being talked about anywhere else.

TRP philosophy strongly dissuades men from getting married given the state of the legal system. Horror stories of men who were 'divorce-raped' are not uncommon in the sub.

I have to agree with this. Maybe the pocket of the world I grew up in is just especially fucked-up, but I've seen way too many marriages end in painful divorces or worse, perpetuate themselves despite the people in them being miserable. The entire idea that one could conceivably have any clue who they want to spend the rest of their life with is pretty arrogant IMO, or if nothing else short-sighted. I'm all for relationships, I'm all for spending your life with someone, but making it into a legal contract just seems like an unnecessary liability IMO. Have your wedding if you want, get your rings, but don't sign any papers.

Many people are able to function in a married relationship (read: they aren't constantly on the brink of divorce) without consciously educating themselves on the subtle dynamics of male-female relationships.

Many people function, fewer people thrive. I agree that study of male/female relationships is unnecessary, but I counter that an understanding of interpersonal relationships is immensely beneficial. People can't be simplified into their sex alone and neither can their behavior, however discussion of commonalities between members of the same sex isn't without warrant.

Putting divorce laws aside, do you think there is a correlation between the ability to relate to TRP philosophy and an inability to live in a healthy marriage? Do you think that these men in TRP are divorced because of the character trait that drew them to the subreddit in the first place?

People get divorced because they were naive enough to get married in the first place but wise enough to end the failed marriage. Doesn't mean one or both of them has some glaring character flaw or anything, sometimes relationships just don't work out.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T15:22:17+00:00

I get what you're saying.. But it's pretty obvious to me when a comment or post was written by some neck beard-y teenager. Versus the posts who were written by dudes who get laid pretty often and actually have a social life / things going on for them.

The more mature guys usually discuss how a lot of women like to be lead and they won't bullshit you when they say "looks do matter", get yourself a good job, get yourself an education, improve yourself, how to properly show interest in a girl you might be keen to in a coffee shop or something, etc..

Now you could say "well you can get self-improvement advice from somewhere else that doesn't talk so negatively about women".. But honestly, horrible experiences with dating women are what dragged 100% of men to TRP to begin with. It's kind of the common bond most posters there share with each other..

You can get sober without going to an AA meeting, but it helps to be around people who are going through similar shit as you where you can talk and discuss.. Rather than be an unsuccessful guy isolated and surrounded by successful people.

One problem I have with TRP I have is the AWALT vs. NAWALT concept. Their idea of a "unicorn" seeming to be a woman who's physically a 10 that will never argue with you, can read your mind, is never going to find a single man other than you attractive, and will stick with you forever even if she's only been dating you for a month and you've revealed that you have the maturity of an 8 year old.

Then "AWALT" suggests "oh man women are evil and heartless you can't be yourself around them, gotta be alpha bro". No, all women are like that just like all men will dump a woman who doesn't bathe and is obese. I think "AWALT" should be changed to "AWHS" (All women have standards).

I swallowed the red pill. Had a lot of anger in me for a while.. But that was due to the trust issues I had after being dumped a few times for guys who were a better option. Looking back though, those women weren't really a good match for me anyway and I knew that subconsciously, but I was afraid of being alone because I had gotten so used to the love-addiction (cuddling, sex, and those cute behaviors couples develop together).

Just my two cents. TRP really motivated me to be where I am today and had I not found it I probably would not have made such great progress with my life in the last two years... And no, I don't hate women.

[deleted] · 2016-01-18T17:42:13+00:00

Modern marriage is so much more difficult to keep going for 40-50 years (look how long people are living) in its current old-fashioned format than most people seem to want to acknowledge.

One woman is supposed to be my best friend, complete lover, support system, mother of my children, income earning partner, confidant, and deepest emotional connection. All in one person, and only her.

How is that even possible?

nomdplume · 2016-01-18T18:08:57+00:00

Many people are able to function in a married relationship (read: they aren't constantly on the brink of divorce) without consciously educating themselves on the subtle dynamics of male-female relationships.

Sure. The ones who get lucky, maybe.

For those of us who recognize that marriage is a fraught institution (fewer and fewer people getting married, and a significant failure rate for those who do), we might think that learning as much as we can about what makes for a successful marriage is a good idea.

The "relationship/marriage industry" is a multi-billion dollar affair. RP is hardly the only source trying to help people with their marriages, so your indictment should cover anyone offering or seeking knowledge/perspectives/advice. And that would probably put you into an elite minority that is exempt.

Title	Is it possible that the majority of the men who swallow the Red Pill were never 'marriage material' to begin with?
Author	FieldLine
Upvotes	37
Comments	127
Date	January 18, 2016 5:14 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/41hh9z/is_it_possible_that_the_majority_of_the_men_who/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-possible-that-the-majority-of-the-men-who.276834 https://theredarchive.com/post/276834