I think we should normalize the idea that people have standards when it comes to dating.

bagoonga · 2020-09-30T23:36:37+00:00

Looks don't matter to everyone. They do to most people, though. But people don't always agree with whatever pop culture finds attractive.

chofferblower · 2020-09-30T23:31:18+00:00

You are right. Looks do matter. No need for apologies.

The question now is how, to which extent, and even maybe why ? Because I know a pair of people that are described as « unconventionally attractive » and there might be interesting things to understand here. And no, they don’t act in emotionally abusive ways.

The other question to me is : are we confortable with the fact that it matters ? If not, why ? How can we help it ? But that’s another topic I guess.

yomimaru · 2020-10-01T07:42:50+00:00

Imagine yourself in a conversation with a Nobel prize winning physicist. He knows he's smarter than you, you know he's smarter than you, everyone else in a room knows that too. Regardless of that, if he says this out loud, you will instantly hate him and everyone in a room will think he's a jerk.

Same in dating. There are things everyone understands but nobody really mentions because it's inconsiderate, might hurt someone's feelings or just is obvious. I myself am strongly attracted to blonde women, this doesn't mean that I need to explain that to every redhead or brunette I meet.

ironbasementwizard · 2020-10-01T03:40:50+00:00

Obviously people are attracted to attractive people! I think this is often the main problem for guys who can't find dates- they are deeply unnatractive though usually in ways that can be fixed. I.E. they have a bad attitude/personality, they treat others like shit, they're not keeping up with hygene/fitness/etc.

This is why the red pill seems like it initially works- it gives guys some simple rules to follow that help them be more attractive in mainstream ways. Sadly the attitude they promote is pretty off-putting

defo18 · 2020-10-01T00:39:00+00:00

I completely get it

Looking back my ex-girlfriend wanted some type of Superman who was always confident and never lose but was nice to her and always had money but not too mean and we all know how unrealistic this is but looking at all to do she's dated versus how she treated me it seems hypocritical because not only did she not find this type of dude but she could act as nasty and as mean-spirited as she wanted but expected mean to just wave it away because she has a vagina

That's why I find a silly when I see all these people missing off their standards because you know these people probably don't even fit half of their own standard

DarkestTimeline24 · 2020-10-01T06:17:20+00:00

We all have a right to pursue our desires. If I’m not attracted to someone it’s not my fault. I will not be rude or crass about it unless pressed and bothered. But I will not waste my time or another’s out of obligation or guilt. I know what I look like and I know what I like.

punkpoppenguin · 2020-10-01T08:09:01+00:00

Here’s the thing though, if you have a real connection with someone you won’t care. I’ve got a type. I like skinny, pretty, long haired dudes in bands, preferably tattooed from neck to toe. But I’ve gone ahead and fallen in love with human beings as a whole, for the most part, and I tend to find that the better I get to know someone the more or less hot I find them. The only guy I ever dated that fit my entire vision of what I was physically looking for bored the absolute arse off me and we only made it a few dates.

Now I’m not saying you have to date overweight women, it’s not your thing so why should you. But don’t tie yourself in knots looking for a specific type of woman either, when you have that amazing connection with someone it won’t matter anyway

krmaml · 2020-10-01T09:33:21+00:00

Men have never downplayed the importance of looks or virtue signalled. We're percieved as more shallow than we actually are.

Reverse is true for women though

blonde-throwaway · 2020-10-01T02:40:13+00:00

I've been working out for years, why would I want to date a fat girl?

To me, this is the part that's key. You're not someone who doesn't take care of themselves expecting to land someone who prioritises fitness. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting someone who has the same values as you and yes, attraction is important in a relationship as long as people are realistic.

anon1880 · 2020-10-01T04:04:36+00:00

I agree with you. I recently kindly rejected an obese woman. I started being happy years ago when I stopped giving a fuck what others think so don't worry OP

bigpoppapump88 · 2020-10-01T05:05:08+00:00

Yeah, I believe you have reasonable demands asking for someone that's physically attractive. You have every right to turn someone down that you don't find physically attractive. Regardless if you have a "connection" or not. You never knew, she may have a sti/std, or some underlying health issues that cause her to be overweight. Yes looks do matter, but everything else matters too. The people that believe only looks matter are the autistic sociopaths known as "black pillers". Ugh.

dongtouch · 2020-10-01T05:34:58+00:00

Looks do matter and attraction is necessary on some level for romantic and sexual chemistry. And there is a narrow type that a LOT of people find attractive.

But that doesn’t mean they don’t also find all kinds of other things attractive. It is entirely possible to be attracted to a person who is not, by any objective standard, or by popular opinion, attractive. But something works there for ya. And sometimes people ARE exclusively into something most others aren’t - very tall women, very fat women/men, whatever. I personally like stocky men as much as fit. shrug I think this point is overlooked in these discussions, like it’s either you have to be attracted to everyone or of course every person on earth is only attracted to Baywatch-types.

OhDatBoi1273 · 2020-10-01T08:04:15+00:00

The thing is a lot of people wouldn't give fat people a chance just because of the looks, even if there could be a feeling or they have some to share.

Even more are the people who don't realize they can have double standards even though they are victims of double standards.

RedPillDetox · 2020-10-01T08:45:29+00:00

Looks matter. In some cases a lot, in other cases not a lot, but still, it matters.

People need to understand that there's no "absolutes" in dating. Only trends. Sure, people like good looking options. But you always know those ugly people who nailed an attractive option. It's not the trend, but it happens. Maybe that's why you see all of this contradictive mottos of "looks don't matter" vs "looks matter"... it all depends on a lot of shit, really...

Comfortable_Intern57 · 2020-10-01T00:36:53+00:00

I agree, I don't know why you think you'd get voted down. If you don't know someone the first impression is how they look of course! If you get to know someone and you like their personality, then they may not care as much.

Both men and women have standards. The first reason a woman might turn you down is based on looks too. The second is whether or not you give her a bad vibe (like maybe mental illness or disorder she can pick up on). The third is if you have terrible social skills. Those are things you can work on for the most part, other things are things like she is already in a relationship, she's not looking for a relationship or anything, or maybe she's a lesbian, etc.

half_recent · 2020-10-01T08:23:54+00:00

I really like your post. It kinda nails into a lot of the issues people have in the dating world—and that’s not eating their own recipes. No one seems to adhere to their own standards anymore. It seems to me like these are almost ideal standards that they would ideally like to have but don’t adhere to them because all they are are just what their ideal mate would be like.

half_recent · 2020-10-01T10:36:33+00:00

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half_recent · 2020-10-03T08:08:27+00:00

It all depends on what a person values. Some people don’t place much value on sex or physical attraction and would be willing to overlook those factors in favor of other priorities. Other people care about physical attraction but have odd niche interests or can develop physical attraction to a person as they get to know them. Some people place a lot of value on the physical component of their relationship and want someone who fulfills their standards in that regard. It’s fine to have personal preferences, but what’s important is recognizing they are PERSONAL preferences. It is unfair to generalize about what all men want or what all women want. Likewise, it is impossible to describe what all men should look like in order to attract women (or vice versa)

tomowudi · 2020-10-01T12:53:57+00:00

Do we normalize the idea that some people prefer chocolate over vanilla ice cream?

Or is it "a matter of opinion"?

Have you ever heard the phrase, "there is no accounting for taste"? It is used as an insult, buy it is actually literally true.

Attraction is a form of preference.

Preferences are a matter of opinion.

Opinions aren't objective statements of value. They are inherently subjective, because the value is relative to the individual.

And lots of shit goes into our personal opinions. People can agree something is good or impressive, while also having zero fucks to give about it. It's just not their cup of tea.

And nobody is starting a movement over their frustration that others do not feel the same way they do about chocolate ice cream. People will argue and act incredulous if you disagree about chocolate, cilantro, big vs small titties, etc.

But they don't really take it personally. They just react a bit personally because it is personal to them.

So we don't need to normalize this idea. We need to recognize that it applies to us as well, and how "attractive" we are and what that actually fucking means.

Because you aren't "attractive" on a scale of 1 to 10. That is a stupid, nonsensical idea that has little bearing on anything.

Certain physical characteristics - in a certain combination - have a higher probability of triggering sexual arousal in our species.

But pretty don't fix stupid, and stupid is incredibly unnatractive. To me.

I refused to sleep with drunk girls my whole life because I found them unnatractive and I had too much self respect to be someone else's morning-regret. But mainly I just found them unnatractive.

Not because they were physically unnatractive, but because what they looked like isn't the only thing I care about.

And that's specific to me.

Maybe you feel different. Maybe you believe that you could happily spend the rest of your life with someone that looks like Scarlett Johansson but has the personality of Gilbert Godfrey's voice. Could be true.

But probably not. Life is short but marriage is very long. You are making a commitment to figuring out how to get along forever. Dirty diapers, amputation, alcoholism, massive weight gain, toxic in-laws, the fucking Holiday Hell that comes around to disrupt your life every year...

You have all of that shit to deal with, in addition to their lack of personality...

But they sure have nice tits and a smile! Totally fine?

Or do you think that while looks are important for YOU... They aren't as all encompassing as you first thought?

Slat3r10 · 2020-10-01T14:10:44+00:00

Its a mix of lifecircumstance and preference. I think she called you out and doesnt see anything wrong with it is because you actively turned someone down for their body. She possibly hasnt explicitly said youre too short to a guy and has just had the normal life circumstances that brought her to those taller guys. Theres a difference between that and say a girl who shits on short people regularly. Also people who look beyond looks are after something different like emotional connection/depth/caring.

Campanerut · 2020-10-01T18:11:29+00:00

Respect your opinion mate, but i have seen A LOT of ugly guys with pretty woman, and vice versa, so looks doesn't matter to everyone, but you can absolutelly look your best if you take care of yourself.

20160474 · 2020-10-07T02:58:03+00:00

She was saying she’d have an issue with it if you had a connection w her, meaning you genuinely liked her, and and were attracted to her but didn’t go for it bc you’re afraid of what ppl would think if u got w the “fat girl.”

Also, all my 3 bfs were above 6 feet. You could look at that and say I have crazy standards. But I’ve hooked up with/dated plenty of guys far below that height. Even guys who are 5’7. I’ve even gotten with overweight guys. The point is: just because all my exes have been tall & all your friend’s exes have been fit doesn’t mean we wouldn’t give a chance to guys outside of that standard. Just because the majority of guys both of us have talked to have been fit, doesn’t mean we never have/will go outside of that

OooooorahNZ · 2020-10-25T21:11:52+00:00

Looks absolutely matter. Why would you want to be with someone that you don't find attractive and why would they want to be with someone that doesn't find them attractive?! Can you imagine waking up next to someone you don't find attractive for years? Why would you inflict that on yourself and on them? Blech.

Looks just aren't the be-all-end-all that some people think they are. Attraction is subjective so someone being attracted to someone else is just the first step - after that, personality kicks in and that's the contract closer.

Everyone has standards it's just that there are no set of universal scales for individual standards.

BabeOfBlasphemy · 2020-10-01T00:40:24+00:00

In today's "pc culture" we are told not to "kink shame" and then we turn around to call lesbians bigots for not wanting to date a trans woman with a penis (that's just one example, i have seen terms like racist, ageist, sexist, homophobe, fatphobic, all kinds of labels are bandied about).

We can't have it both ways, either people are allowed to have their preferences, no matter the reason, or they aren't. Because what is the alternative? FORCE someone to share their body? Thats slavery, literally. Thats owning another person's body and exploiting it for personal benefit. Reinstiuting sexual slavery is a far greater sin than any "phobia" accusation one can muster.

TrashPanda10101 · 2020-10-01T00:01:05+00:00

As a fellow guy with high standards, I completely understand where you're coming from. I myself operate under a policy of "always be polite about your type/standards, but never apologize for them." (I too wouldn't date a fat girl because as you said, why would I?)

CorneliusHardcastle · 2020-10-01T08:47:18+00:00

I think we should normalise that men and women are fundamentally completely different animals, and complaining about "double standards" is like complaining about being able to put plastic in the microwave but not metal. "What's with the double standard microwave??? GahH!"
So much gender debate is bitching about double standards, and it's based on the patently false premise the genders are the same.

Yes this does umbrella over "standards" as well, women are supposed to have higher standards than men. It's perfectly biologically logical for them to have higher standards, and different standards.

Mind you, as a guy you can have standards as high as you like, provided you're easily getting all the sex you desire, if your balls are constantly drained by babes who meet your high standards, then go nuts. But seems like you should have nothing to complain about if that's the case.

As a guy I can assure you my standards are FAR lower than my female looks equivalent. And I feel extra manly saying that. Chances are if you are a woman I will pound you the fuck out, why not? I'm not a sissy. Who I really look up to most of all are those extra manly men who are so manly they a) can't stay out of prison and b) have such extremely high testosterone and consequently such extremely low standards they rape fucking men. That's next level manly shit which I personally couldn't stomach. Guess I'm a weency bit of a sissy.

DissonanceBadger · 2020-10-01T21:08:03+00:00

Women don't have the same conception of 'good looking' as men have. The female idea of a good looking man is man who has visual marks of being competent in his environment, while the male idea of a good looking woman is a woman who has a quality body for hosting, birthing, and nurturing a baby. This is why men like boobs, hips, legs, and face symmetry (predicts overall health), while women like size (strength), veiny hands (strength), uniforms (society officially certified you), being well dressed (social awareness), etc.

She might like tall and fit guys, but it's not because they're good looking, it's because they are effective in their environment (physically), and she recognizes instinctively that there's more than one way a man can be effective in his environment. Sure she has a type, but in her mind a guy can be fat if he's otherwise effective (intelligent, creative, has a good job).

half_recent · 2020-10-14T12:11:30+00:00

[deleted]

Title	I think we should normalize the idea that people have standards when it comes to dating.
Author	half_recent
Upvotes	50
Comments	78
Date	September 30, 2020 11:16 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/j2x1e8/i_think_we_should_normalize_the_idea_that_people/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-think-we-should-normalize-the-idea-that-people.282665 https://theredarchive.com/post/282665